Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: SichoPhiend on <10-19-15/1732:25>
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How do I price a modular cyberlimb out, I believe that the base is fairly straight forward, for instance...
Full Obvious Modular Cyberarm
| | Nuyen | | Availability |
| Full Obvious Cyberarm | | 15000 | | 4 |
| Modular | | 3000 | | +2 |
| Elbow Connector | | 4000 | | 8 |
| Customized Agility: +3 | | 15000 | | +3 |
| Customized Strength: +3 | | 15000 | | +3 |
| Armor: 2 | | 6000 | | 10 |
| Total | | 58000 | | 12/10 |
Now, how do I price out the forearm?
I can be fairly certain that adding 1 point of Armor will only cost 3000 Nuyen, but what about the availability? Will the Armor part be only 5 for 1 point of Armor or 15 for being the 3rd point of Armor on the assembled limb?
Lets go one step further, if I use both a modular forearm and a modular hand, put the point of armor on the forearm (and for this lets assume that you have to use the availability of 15 for the 3rd point of armor), now do I have to consider the armor availability (at 15) when I purchase a separate hand?
How about the customized attributes? Will they increase the availability of the forearm, or will it remain at base availability +2 for being modular? (I'm fairly confident that there is no base price increase for this as the stats of the upper arm automatically flow down to the rest of the arm)
And when you purchase the base arm, do you get the whole arm and only pay costs such as 10000 for a forearm when you buy a second forearm for swapping purposes? Or do pay full price for a full arm and then pay full price for the forearm that goes with it? And then pay full price for any additional forearms...
And while I have a semi-captive audience: is it possible to attach a synthetic forearm to an obvious upper arm, or is swapping out synthetic limbs wholly in the realm of using a modular connector and therefore trading out the whole limb?
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Wakshaani, when you have a minute, can you weigh in on this?
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Pretty sure you need a modular connector that is 2 4 or 6k depending on if it's the wrist a the elbow or shoulder the modular mount takes up capacity too if say you are swapping out a cyber hand then you need a cyber arm with the modular mount on it to swap out the shoulder one doesn't have capacity since you are swapping out the entire arm course what is the essence cost is it just 0.1 cause that's the only thing "installed" vs the entire arm?
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Whilst I agree that you need to add the cost of the connectors to the modular arm, hence why my example has an elbow connector, that is unfortunately only one small part of trying to figure out how much all the various pieces parts cost.
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Yeah, I'm gonna have to write a big FAQ.
*grump*
(More on this when I have a lil' time. On lucnh from work!)
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Since we're apparently waiting on an FAQ to get some of these answers, is it OK to ask when we might see it? There are those of us stuck in limbo until we learn how to apply these things to our characters.
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Looking for Info on this now as well, Recently lost half of my arm and looking to replace it with a modular one for different tasks/cyber weapons. Any idea on when we could see that fabled FAQ?
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I'm going to just talk about modular limbs and leave off modular connectors for now:
You buy a full cyberarm, it costs normal and has 15 capacity and doesn't come off the shoulder.
The modular partial takes up 10 capacity to fit into the full arm and has a capacity of 8.
Next you buy a modular cyber hand that has 3 Capacity and uses up 5 of the partial.
So now you can remove at the elbow and the wrist and have capacity 5 in the upper which is is the part of the limb that determines the AGI and STR for the entire shebang. You have 3 Capacity in the lower arm and 3 in the hand.
So that's 15000 plus 12000 plus 6000 before you even do another thing to it (a cool 33k)
So customizing STR/AGI of Upper Arm to 6 is another 30000 (up to 63k)
Add 2 armor for 6000 (up to 69k)
Lets say we add AGI enhancement +3 19500 (up to 78.5k) and no more capacity on the upper.
Lets say we add a cyberarm slide to the lower 3000 (up to 81.5) and no more capacity on lower.
Lets say we add 2 armor and a fingetrip comp to hand 9000 (up to 90500) an no more capacity.
Hopefully, you get the idea.
Instead of buying a full cyberarm you could buy a full modular cyberarm and a shoulder modular connector so the upper part comes off too. But then your spending an extra .3 ess and 6000 on the joint and the modular arm is 3000 more expensive than a standard while having 3 capacity.
So in the above example you'd sacrifce lets's say the 2 armor and 1 level onf enhanced AGI saving 12500 but adding on the 9000 of the modular connector and modular mount.
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You buy a full cyberarm, it costs normal and has 15 capacity and doesn't come off the shoulder.
The modular partial takes up 10 capacity to fit into the full arm and has a capacity of 8.
Next you buy a modular cyber hand that has 3 Capacity and uses up 5 of the partial.
According to Wakshaani, this capacity breakdown is incorrect
A modular limb with removable parts has teh overall Capacity lessened by the removed part, plus a tad more for the modular connector. A full modular arm which has 15 capacity that has a modular elbow will then have this setup:
FULL ARM - Capacity 2
LOWER ARM - Capacity 10
If you add a modular wrist to that, you get:
FULL ARM - Capacity 2
LOWER ARM - Capacity 5
HAND - Capacity 4
If you have a partial modular limb with a modular wrist, you get:
LOWER ARM - capacity 3
HAND - capacity 4
This suggests that the largest capacity reduction applies (in this case limb -3 for a full limb) but you get the full capacity of the add on part.
As for cost, you indicate that in order to purchase a complete arm; you pay full price for a full-arm to get an upper arm, plus the full cost for a partial-arm for the forearm, plus the full cost for a hand. Is this correct? Or do you get a full limb with the original purchase, only paying extra for the modular limb upgrade and modular connectors? (along with anything else you cram into the arm)
This is part of the clarification that I need answered, my primary missions character is in retcon limbo until these clarifications land.
But as a follow up, back to my original question, when months later I purchase a separate lower limb for my modular arm, how is it's availability and cost determined? Are they increased by the availability and/or cost increase brought on by attribute customization? (I will leave it at that, as this answer should be applicable to anything else that increases the base cost or availability of a limb)
But I must say that your interpretation may now be correct as we've been waiting for a good clarification and examples since early June and during that time, this whole section may have been rewritten for the Errata (Which I can only pray we will see soon, fortunately I have 3 and a half years of school to distract me, hence why it took me 3 weeks to get back to this thread)
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If you noticed I stated an arm that does not come off the shoulder...ie it's not modular.
In my example only the lower and hand are modular.
In Wak's example, you could take the whole thing off the shoulder.
However, where Wak gets 4 capacity from the hand I don't know. An obvious cyberhand is 4 capacity. Modular hand is limb-1, so 3 for obvious and 1 for synthetic.
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However, where Wak gets 4 capacity from the hand I don't know. An obvious cyberhand is 4 capacity. Modular hand is limb-1, so 3 for obvious and 1 for synthetic.
That part I can at least answer, the math in this example is as follows...
Full Modular Arm has a capacity of 12 (limb-3 [15-3]) This being the only part that pays the capacity cost of the modular limb.
To this the Arm is equipped with a modular elbow connector (capacity cost of [10]) leaving capacity of 2
This allows a Lower-arm to be attached with the full capacity of the Lower-arm [10]
To this the Lower-arm is equipped with a modular wrist connector (capacity cost of [5]) leaving capacity of 5 in the Lower-arm
This allows a hand to be attached with the full capacity of the hand [4]
Giving the breakdown of
Full-arm - Capacity 2
Lower-arm - Capacity 5
Hand - Capacity 4
Now I didn't quote all of Wakshaani's post, but it gave me the impression that the only way to swap out the Upper-arm was to pay the essence for the Shoulder connector, in this I could easily be wrong
But all the confusion about this is why I'm asking my questions, we could really use some examples of how these are supposed to be done.
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Except the hand is modular so it is at -1 capacity... if the hand isn't modular how would it connect to the modular joint?
If it isn't modular, you have just a modular lower limb with 8 capacity.
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I understand what you are saying, I am merely explaining where Wakshaani's numbers came from, now I'm sure his examples were written hastily and he may have given a bad example, but as he is the author of the section, I have to assume that what he wrote is what he meant.
The simple fact is that there are not enough rules to be certain of how the modular limbs work, and being a missions player, I don't have the luxury of asking for a GM ruling. Hence why Iam asking for clarification.
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If Wak wrote what he meant, he had a mental slip because he applies the rules of modular mount one way with the partial limb and another with the hand.
But yeah, it would be nice to chime in and explain why I'm wrong because I might be missing something.
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Slightly off-topic, but what do you guys even see in modular cyberlimbs? I've tried to come up with a good use for them, but I can't seem to find any good scenarios where they're worth the cost.
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Most likely different cyber weapons or one with synthetic qualities for under cover work.
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For me it'd depend on the cost of the limb. If it's double the cost for two modular limbs than for one, as it appears to be, it's probably just horribly expensive and pointless.
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Slightly off-topic, but what do you guys even see in modular cyberlimbs? I've tried to come up with a good use for them, but I can't seem to find any good scenarios where they're worth the cost.
Personally, I need an arm without an implanted weapon for situations where possession of one would be a problem. Preferably a synthetic lower-arm that draws a little less attention than my chrome one, as a mage, I already draw enough attention from twitchy security.
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NPC- plenty of reason for mosular arm.
For example-go to work, take of arm-strap on tools.
For PC-the only thing I can think of is Redliner + Armor Cheese
(And Wak confirmed armor stacks RAW)
Troll Redliner example:
13500 Used Upper Limb
2250 Bulk Modification [6]
22500 AGI/STR Customization to 6
6750 Armor[3]
3000 Modular Elbow/knee
9000 Modular Lower Limb
6750 Armor[3]
1500 Modular Ankle/wrist
4500 Modular Hand/Foot
6750 Armor[3]
76500
For arms only
375 Bulk Modification[1] Lower Limb
3750 Spurs
314250 2 Arms/2 Legs: 36 Armor
With Redliner AGI 8, STR 8
There's room to Fit +2AGI and +2 STR ENH for Max Human 10
Avail Capacity
2 13500 Used Modular Upper Arm 12
(+4) 1500 Bulk Modification [4] (+4)
(+2) 7500 Agi 5 Customization
(+4) 15000 STR 7 Customization
14625 AGI [3] Enh -3
6750 Armor [3] Enh -3
3000 Modular Connector- Elbow -10
12 61875 0
0 9000 Used ModularLower Arm 8
(+3) 1125 Bulk Modification [3] (+3)
6750 Armor [3] Enh -3
3750 Spurs -3
1500 Modular Connector- Wrist -5
2 22125 0
0 5250 Used Modular Hand 3
6750 Armor [3] Enh -3
12000
96000 Total Cost of Arm
Avail Capacity
2 13500 Used Modular Upper Leg 12
(+1) 375 Bulk Modification [1] (+4)
AGI 3
STR 3
6750 Armor [3] Enh -3
3000 Modular Connector- Knee -10
3 23625 0
0 9000 Used ModularLower Arm 8
6750 Armor [3] Enh -3
1500 Modular Connector- Wrist -5
2 17250 0
0 5250 Used Modular Hand 3
6750 Armor [3] Enh -3
0 12000 0
52875 Total Cost of Leg
297750 Total Cost of 4 Limbs
Stats with Redliner:
Arms AGI 10 STR 9
Legs AGI 5 STR 5
Total Armor 36
Give him biocompatability and use karma and in Debt so he can stay at resources B
Troll A
Attributes C or D
Skills D or C
Magic E
Goal- Save up money for Synaptic Boosters 2- until then, while not the fastest guy but Bod 5 + limb armor 36 soaks about 13 damage(not counting AP) plus he has the soak of the worn armor to boot.
edit: the arms actually cost less because I only need 2 AGI Enh....with the +2 from redliner that'll give the maximum +9 for a troll.
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ok so if I lose my arm and get modular connector at the shoulder do I only pay .3 essence or 1.3 essence?
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ok so if I lose my arm and get modular connector at the shoulder do I only pay .3 essence or 1.3 essence?
!.3
.3 for the modular shoulder joint and 1 for the upper arm...
the lower arm using capacity in upper and hand in lower means no ess loss for these items.
Which is why I'd go non-modular upper most times- who cares if it don't come of the shoulder.
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And yet another follow up question to the ever increasing list of questions
Can you combine cyberlimb optimization with full modular limbs? If so, how would that work, where would the capacity be used? (I assume at the highest level of the arm, but I could be wrong, if it is possible at all)