Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Strange on <11-03-15/0256:57>
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Ok, I have 2 builds of a similar Mystic adept. Both have a rating 4 Katana focus. He is an elf from Tir Tairngire, and he is a private investigator who does magical investigations. Here goes.
Strange v.1
A: 24 Attributes
B: Mystic Adept - 4 Magic/7 Spells, 2 magic skills rating 4
C: Elf, Special attributes 3
D: - 50,000
E: 18 Skills
B:3
A: 5
R: 5/6
S: 5
C: 3
W: 5
L: 3
E: 2
M: 6
Init: 12+ 2d6
Positive qualities: Mentor Spirit (Dragon Slayer, +2 Dice Combat Spells, +2 Dice Ettiquette)
Negative qualities: Code of Honor (Help the Helpless), Distinctive style (accent, Tattoos), SINner (National, Tir Tairngire)
Limits: Physical 7, Mental 6, Social 6, Astral 6
Skills:
Arcana 1
Assensing 4
Astral Combat 4
Blades 5
Counterspelling 4
Perception 3
Spellcasting 5
Spells: Ball Lightning, Manabolt, Analyze Truth, Detect Individual, Heal, Improved Invisibility, Levitate
Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Attribute Boost (AGI) 4, Combat Sense 4, Critical Strike(Blades), Improved Reflexes 1
Tradition Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with WIL + INT 11
Contact: Talismonger (3,3)
$50,000
2 Months Low Lifestyle, $4,000
Lined Coat (Normal Jacket) $900
Armor Jacket (Run Jacket) $ 1000
Forearm Guards $300
Katana Weapon Focus, Level 4 $29,000
Autopicker (rating 1) $ 250
Glasses w/image link $150
Hermes Ikon $3000
Fake Licenses (2, both rank 4, Private investigator and Magician) $1600
Still have $9,825 to spend
Strange v.2
A: 24 Attributes
B: Mystic Adept - 4 Magic/7 Spells, 2 magic skills rating 4
C: Elf, Special attributes 3
D: - 50,000
E: 18 Skills
B:3
A: 5
R: 4(5)
S: 4
C: 8
I: 4
L: 2
W: 5
E: 2
M: 6
Init: 9 + 2d6
Positive qualities: Mentor Spirit (Dragon Slayer, +2 Dice Combat Spells, +2 Dice Ettiquette)
Negative qualities: Code of Honor (Help the Helpless), Distinctive style (accent, Tattoos), SINner (National, Tir Tairngire)
Limits: Physical 6, Mental 5, Social 9, Astral 9
Skills:
Arcana 1
Assensing 4
Astral Combat 4
Blades 5
Counterspelling 4
Etiguette 1(Karma)
Perception 3
Spellcasting 5
Spells: Ball Lightning, Manabolt, Analyze Truth, Detect Individual, Heal, Improved Invisibility, Levitate
Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Attribute Boost (AGI) 4, Combat Sense 4, Critical Strike(Blades), Improved Reflexes 1
Tradition: Path of the Wheel, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA 13
Contact: Talismonger (4,4), Police Chief (5,3)
$50,000
2 Months Low Lifestyle, $4,000
Lined Coat (Normal Jacket) $900
Armor Jacket (Run Jacket) $ 1000
Forearm Guards $300
Katana Weapon Focus, Level 4 $29,000
Autopicker (rating 1) $ 250
Glasses w/image link $150
Hermes Ikon $3000
Fake Licenses (2, both rank 4, Private investigator and Magician) $1600
Still have $9,825 to spend
The first one is a bit better in normal combat(limit 7), but quite a bit worse with spells(limit 6 astral, Drain resist 11) and astral combat. The second is amazing with spells(Limit 9 astral, 13 drain resist dice), and only a little worse with the sword (Limit 6)
Which seems more viable? I think at the moment I am leaning towards version 2. Thanks for critique anywhere on either builds, guys!
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Your build #1 seems to be missing an INT stat.
The second one is probably better, except Astral Combat is totally pointless (and wasting 4/18 skill points on it is even worse), starting with Arcana 1 is totally pointless, AGI Boost 4 is 2-3 more than you will ever need and provides no benefit, not having Summoning is a bad idea, having no way to do stun damage (e.g. Stunbolt) is terrible, and BOD 3 isn't ideal to be in melee.
You seem like you're trying to be kind of like a D&D eldritch knight. It works about as well in SR as it does in D&D, which is to say poorly.
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The only Eldrich Knights that work in D&D/Pathfinder are either super high lvl, Pathfinder's Magus class, or some super cheesy 3rd party thing. Sadly, SR has the same issues.
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Your build #1 seems to be missing an INT stat.
The second one is probably better, except Astral Combat is totally pointless (and wasting 4/18 skill points on it is even worse), starting with Arcana 1 is totally pointless, AGI Boost 4 is 2-3 more than you will ever need and provides no benefit, not having Summoning is a bad idea, having no way to do stun damage (e.g. Stunbolt) is terrible, and BOD 3 isn't ideal to be in melee.
You seem like you're trying to be kind of like a D&D eldritch knight. It works about as well in SR as it does in D&D, which is to say poorly.
His INT is 5. The reason for astral combat is because he sometimes has to fight astral beings. From an RP standpoint was where arcana 1 comes in, but I don't mind putting that point elsewhere. I thought about summoning (and banishing) but I don't have a lot of skill points. Not trying to be an eldritch knight(kind of sick of that regurgitated response), like the description says he deals with magical baddies.
Why is the second one better, in your opinion?
So, with that in mind, anyone have adept power suggestions? Should I replace mana bolt with stun bolt? Why is it a terrible idea to have no stun ability? See any way to shift the priorities to make it better?
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Astral Combat is a skill totally obviated by Stunbolt and/or hitting things with your magic sword. You can't astral project because you're not a magician. If you're astral perceiving and want to fight a spirit you may as well Stunbolt or sword because either option is head and shoulders better. Astral Combat itself is pretty much worthless.
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Build 2 is better for a higher drain stat.
If you can't deal stun you can never participate in taking someone alive, which can be a problem.
I'd probably lower Attribre Boost to 2, take Astral Perception as a qi focus, and put the points into Improved Reflexes 2 and more Critical Strike
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You can only take crit strike once per melee skill.
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Astral Combat is a skill totally obviated by Stunbolt and/or hitting things with your magic sword. You can't astral project because you're not a magician. If you're astral perceiving and want to fight a spirit you may as well Stunbolt or sword because either option is head and shoulders better. Astral Combat itself is pretty much worthless.
"Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical
combat. Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters
use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents
with a physical body, and their Astral Combat
+ Willpower to fight wholly astral entities."pg 315 rulebook.
In order to hit astral only creatures with my sword, I NEED ASTRAL COMBAT. I guess technically I wouldn't need it, but without it I would never hit. In astral combat, my attack is resolved Astral Combat + Willpower [Accuracy] which means 4+5+4 for focus so 13 dice limited by the accuracy of the sword, which is 7. If I remove my astral combat I am rolling 9 dice. Don't see how that is better. In astral combat, my damage with said sword is calculated using my CHA score instead of STR score, so I would be doing 3 more damage per hit. So tell me again how that the astral combat skill is worthless?
Build 2 is better for a higher drain stat.
If you can't deal stun you can never participate in taking someone alive, which can be a problem.
I'd probably lower Attribre Boost to 2, take Astral Perception as a qi focus, and put the points into Improved Reflexes 2 and more Critical Strike
I agree with the second build being a better caster, and only a little bit worse with the sword, so I am going with that build. I can't take astral perception as a qi focus as I have no more karma to spend and it wouldn't fit the character concept if I didn't have it from start. I might try and see if I can squeeze Improved reflexes 2 in by removing some attribute boost, but what would I put more critical strike onto, considering that you can only get it once per weapon group?
Thanks for trying help!
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Astral combat is something that happens on the astral plane. Mysads can't project, so that's not something for you to worry about.
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Astral combat is something that happens on the astral plane. Mysads can't project, so that's not something for you to worry about.
What? Did you not read my previous post? I pulled straight from the rulebook.
"Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical
combat. Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters
use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents
with a physical body, and their Astral Combat
+ Willpower to fight wholly astral entities."pg 315 rulebook
Emphasis mine.
This character's job is basically investigating magical things. If someone is being "haunted" by a purely astral being, and my character wants to kill said being, he needs astral combat to be able to do so well. If he doesn't have astral combat, it defaults to WIL. What you guys should probably be typing is that I should invest MORE into it so that I am better at it.
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There are some issues to consider.
1: because you only have astral perception, and NOT projection. You are tied to the ground and restricted by your physical environment. An astral entity is not so confined. Thus they can stay WELL outside of melee range simply by being above you, or using your terrian limitation against you. Hence why astral spellcasting trumps astral combat. (You do have manabolt, so at least you have that covered)
Damage on the astral for melee combat uses your CHA stat, not strength. (So if you REALLY insist, build 2 is better just for the higher CHA)
2: I am assuming a shamanic tradition?
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so what if your astral projecting and fighting a dual natured critter like a ghoul or hellhound?
would you use astral combat or blades (assuming a sword weapon focus)?
must be astral combat right?
if so having a small astral combat splash with a weapon focus sounds like a good idea for taking out dual natured critters....
eentersting...
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There are some issues to consider.
1: because you only have astral perception, and NOT projection. You are tied to the ground and restricted by your physical environment. An astral entity is not so confined. Thus they can stay WELL outside of melee range simply by being above you, or using your terrian limitation against you. Hence why astral spellcasting trumps astral combat. (You do have manabolt, so at least you have that covered)
Damage on the astral for melee combat uses your CHA stat, not strength. (So if you REALLY insist, build 2 is better just for the higher CHA)
2: I am assuming a shamanic tradition?
1: Yeah, I'm aware of that. I keep vacillating between Mystic Adept and Full Magician because of astral projection and adept powers.
I already mentioned that astral damage is calculated with CHA
2: You assume wrong. Build 1 is Chaos, build 2 is path of the wheel. They are listed within the builds.
so what if your astral projecting and fighting a dual natured critter like a ghoul or hellhound?
would you use astral combat or blades (assuming a sword weapon focus)?
must be astral combat right?
if so having a small astral combat splash with a weapon focus sounds like a good idea for taking out dual natured critters....
eentersting...
Nope, astral combat is solely for fighting purely astral beings. For dual natured you have to use physical. You would use blades, in this case.
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Problems with astral combat is it is melee, even with astral movement speeds, range generally win, plus spells can be used in melee ranges with little to know penalties. Stunbolts range is line of sight and without astral projection you can't really chase atral beings.
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Astral combat is something that happens on the astral plane. Mysads can't project, so that's not something for you to worry about.
What? Did you not read my previous post? I pulled straight from the rulebook.
"Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical
combat. Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters
use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents
with a physical body, and their Astral Combat
+ Willpower to fight wholly astral entities."pg 315 rulebook
Emphasis mine.
This character's job is basically investigating magical things. If someone is being "haunted" by a purely astral being, and my character wants to kill said being, he needs astral combat to be able to do so well. If he doesn't have astral combat, it defaults to WIL. What you guys should probably be typing is that I should invest MORE into it so that I am better at it.
OR you can invest more into spellcasting to stunbolt said astral entity (or anybody else, actually) into oblivion.
Think about what happens if a spirit moves UP and out of your reach. It's not like he has to stay in melee with you.
Also, astral entities have a WALKING speed of 100m. You just cannot keep up with them since you cannot project.
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Or manabolt or magebolt, but magebolt only works on awakened things...wait.... astral... awakened... Nope nevermind, they are not linked. B)
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Problems with astral combat is it is melee, even with astral movement speeds, range generally win, plus spells can be used in melee ranges with little to know penalties. Stunbolts range is line of sight and without astral projection you can't really chase atral beings.
Ok let’s compare a stunbolt cast at force 6 with the sword. So at force 6 the max damage is, um, 6. I only get 12 dice for that if I've maxed out my spellcasting, so most likely I won’t even get the 6, probably more like 4 or 5. Each time I cast, I have to make a drain resist, in this case, the target number is only 3. If I am playing the more caster oriented version, I would have 13 dice to resist this with. Should be fine, but occasionally I will only get one or two hits, resulting in drain. Let’s give the defender a 4 on will, giving him 1 or 2 hits on average, leaving me with a damage of around 3 or 4.
The sword is as follows, AGI+blades+focus rating (5+5+4) = 14. If I max out blades it would be 15. With reach, I get another die if my opponent has none. My limit, however, is 6 for Physical. Damage is Str+3+1(for critical strike)for a total of 8. Now, let's say I only get 5 or 6 hits with this roll, resulting in a total damage value of 13 or 14. Then there is no drain. Let’s give the defender a 4 on both reaction and intuition, so he gets 8 dice, with an average of 3 hits. So I do around 11 damage. Now let’s assume our goon has rating 6 armor and a body of 4. The sword has AP-3, so they get 7 dice. Average is probably around 3 for that. That gives me a final damage of around 8. That is twice as good as the spell, with no chance of drain.
Now I understand that astral combat is rougher, but let’s assume I am fighting a spirit inside a building, and they, for whatever reason, are not materialized and is in melee range. If for any reason I can't reach them I use the spell. The math above holds for a spirit rated at 4. If they flee, fine, that's what we wanted. If they stay in melee range (let's pretend the spirit wants to attack me, and he has no ranged attacks) we have different values.
For melee, a rating 4 spirit has values of 4 for intuition and logic. My attack would be similar with astral combat instead of blades, being Astral Combat skill plus willpower plus focus rating (+4+5+4)or 13. If I maxed it, it would be 15 instead. My limit is 7 for this test, however, but with 13-15 dice I probably won’t hit that a whole lot. Again Let’s say I get 5 or 6 hits, that sounds about average. My opponent would probably get 3 hits, as above. Now, the sword uses CHR for astral beings instead of strength, so now the damage is CHR+3+1, so 12 plus the result of the roll, making it 14 or 15. That doesn’t suck. Now the spirit gets to resist with his force 4, let’s be nice and give him 2 hits. 12-13 final damage. That is 3 times the damage of the spell, with no drain.
Please correct me if I have anything wrong! I’m tired, it’s been a long day.
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If you max out your spellcasting you'll have 16 dice (6 Magic, 6 Spellcasting, 2 Combat spells spec, 2 Dragonslayer bonus).
Now let's see what situations you can find yourself in.
- An astral entity wants to engage you in astral combat (melee) - that's generally good for your skillset so you know what to do. Astral combat value - high.
- An astral entity wants to engage you in ranged spellslinging - you have two options: you strike back or you stop persieving. If you stop persieving there is nothing an astral entity can do to you. Astral combat value - low to zero.
- An astral entity flees - there is nothing you can do about it. Astral combat value - zero.
- An astral entity materialises - hit them with anything you like. Astral combat value - zero, because an astral entity now is dual-natured and you use Blades skill to hit it in melee.
Astral combat is not bad when you're doing melee combat in astral, but for you it is useless outside a very specific set of conditions. If you were a Magician you could handle this a little bit better.
If you really want to hit 'em with your sword on astral plane then you must invest more. At least get Mana Bind and Mana Barier spells.
I don't really understand why would you want to fight something completely harmless in the first place.
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If you max out your spellcasting you'll have 16 dice (6 Magic, 6 Spellcasting, 2 Combat spells spec, 2 Dragonslayer bonus).
Now let's see what situations you can find yourself in.
- An astral entity wants to engage you in astral combat (melee) - that's generally good for your skillset so you know what to do. Astral combat value - high.
- An astral entity wants to engage you in ranged spellslinging - you have two options: you strike back or you stop persieving. If you stop persieving there is nothing an astral entity can do to you. Astral combat value - low to zero.
- An astral entity flees - there is nothing you can do about it. Astral combat value - zero.
- An astral entity materialises - hit them with anything you like. Astral combat value - zero, because an astral entity now is dual-natured and you use Blades skill to hit it in melee.
Astral combat is not bad when you're doing melee combat in astral, but for you it is useless outside a very specific set of conditions. If you were a Magician you could handle this a little bit better.
If you really want to hit 'em with your sword on astral plane then you must invest more. At least get Mana Bind and Mana Barier spells.
TOTALLY forgot about the dragonslayer bonus! Still, damage is less than astral combat with focus, and there is the drain to contend with. Those spell suggestions are pretty good. They fit character concept well, too (Maybe I might need to change priorities and get higher magic for more spells!)
Thanks ZeldaBravo
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No problem.
Could you please tell me why would you want to fight something not materialised?
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Could you please tell me why would you want to fight something not materialised?
I wouldn't say he wants to fight something materialized, per se, it just seems he would have had to at some points during his career as an occult investigator. I never wanted the big issue with it, I just thought that it made some sense. Look at it this way, for some reason a person is being stalked by a spirit. Haunted, even. Some spirits have no ranged combat, and perhaps this spirit refuses to leave the person alone. That's the kind of jobs this guy gets. Sure, it might not ever happen, but then again maybe having this character might make the GM make situations like this happen. Either way, if he's the only guy who can handle this situation, shouldn't he be good at it?
If I can figure out a way to make the regular magician fit the concept (that of being somewhat decent with the sword for both normal and magical baddies, hence the adept side) I'd do it.
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If you really want to use stun bolt, you select also witness my hate and use reagents (or edge). One F1 spell and your drain is still 2. But your damage is on average 7.333. With Power focus 5 even better (9). You stun almost everything with 1-2 spells.
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If you really want to use stun bolt, you select also witness my hate and use reagents (or edge). One F1 spell and your drain is still 2. But your damage is on average 7.333. With Power focus 5 even better (9). You stun almost everything with 1-2 spells.
I don't care about stun bolt, it's a non issue.
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Dont forget practice practice practice for +1 limit power focus 3 for +3 dice pool bonus
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Practice, Practice, Practice, doesn't do crap for anything combat related. Sorry Rook.
Also, while astrally perceiving character take a -2 dice pool penalty to everything besides astral perception.
As ZeldaBravo pointed out without projection, astral combat is worthless, better to let the spirit materialize (complex action) the you forcibly banish it (fill out its damage track). Since you have a weapon foci materialize spirits have no armor against it.
Witness my Hate increase both damage by +2 and drain (I think by also +2) for all direct combat spells. Direct spells are resisted with either only Body or only Will (plus counterspelling and spell resistance as normal). Stunbolt and Manabolt are resisted with only Will. So yeah, you only deal 6 max (no reagents, no WmH) they get 4 dice in your example. You should deal about 5 damage in your example. Average rule of thumb, for every 3 dice you will get 1 hit, so with maxed spellcasting skill, combat spells should be around 5 hits, so example critter tasword damage on an average casting. Not as much as a sword, but melee with spirits can be suicidal with all but the best, fastest, and luckiest people.
I get you maxed Cha, but astral combat is a generally poor choice for full mages and a worthless one for everyone else.
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I'm huge fan of projection, I prefer it over MysAds every-time. But the facts is, there is almost zero call for Astral Combat starting, and I run melee equipped wizards.
You can easily pick up Astral Combat once the character is in play. In the mean time spells do the job very efficiently. Until initiation is complete and Astral Questing is possible it's just not critical.
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So true. Can adepts and MysAd go on astral quests? Outside of Alceras and Rifts I don't think they can get on to the astral and therefor astral planes.
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So true. Can adepts and MysAd go on astral quests? Outside of Alceras and Rifts I don't think they can get on to the astral and therefor astral planes.
Yeah it's not just going Astral, it's about going to the meta planes. Ya gotta cross the gate. In general that's the domain of full up initiates. I'm not gonna say there is no way, give'en rifts, the Astral gateway power, various artifacts, and full up plot magic, but in general no.
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Didn't think so, but then you get into the weird they are physically on the Meta Planes/Astral, so astral combat is still pointless as well.
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So true. Can adepts and MysAd go on astral quests? Outside of Alceras and Rifts I don't think they can get on to the astral and therefor astral planes.
Not without help.
But with astral gateway spirit power, it IS possible. But also presents its own host of problems.... (Like getting a spirit to agree to use it!)
In general, if you can't project, you can't do a metamagic quest for your initiation.*
*Getting a spirit to agree to use the astral gateway power could literally be a run in and of itself. And if you think "Just summon and bind a spirit and FORCE it too"..... think again.
Seen Die Hard 3? You're the John McClain in the Bronx....
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So to reiterate, astral combat generally sucks outside of niche situations. Yup, that is what I got out of this.
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So to reiterate, astral combat generally sucks outside of niche situations. Yup, that is what I got out of this.
Yes. You are correct. It's one of those trap skills. It looks like you need it (but you actually don't). And you definitely don't as a MysAd, AspMag or Adept.
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Yup, to the point I am not ever going to get astral perception on almost any adept/MsAd.
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Astral perception is fine if your group lacks a proper magician.
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Astral Perception is practically necessary if someone else in your group doesn't have it. Or ... uh ... you'll get sent on runs that don't need it if your GM is good?
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Astral Perception + IR Smoke grenades + Ultrasound Jammer = Adept invisibility
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Have a shaman and a hermetic mage in my group besides my melee adept. So, no I don't need astral perception.
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With enough skill in assessing, astral perception makes a great "lie-detector".... useful for questioning mooks, or johnsons.....
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But, I also don't play in mission style games, so my groups are better at filling out rolls (if the group/players want too). So having astral perception is not as valuable as much. I know the uses of it, just have other things I would rather get/upgrade first.
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I'm huge fan of projection, I prefer it over MysAds every-time.
Why exactly?
I see it as a useful scouting tool at best, and something that can be replicated by driving near the area and using Perception.
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Even with the ability to move through walls, you can still be jumped by bad spirits, fried by wards, eaten by some astral baddy, blasted by a dual natured critter or astral perceiving mage. I will stick to meat space for all but true mages, thanks.
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I'm huge fan of projection, I prefer it over MysAds every-time.
Why exactly?
I see it as a useful scouting tool at best, and something that can be replicated by driving near the area and using Perception.
Need to find someone and you have a material link? Ritual casting with a projecting mage can speed up the location time.
Need to tail a paranoid target? Astral projection.
Need to talk to someone half the world away and don't want to leave a datatrail? Astral projection.
Need that obscure piece of occult info that only spirits know? Astral projection.
Need to know exactly where wards are so your christmas tree mystic adept or physical adept or dual natured partner doesn't debuff/KO/disrupt/alert? Astral projection.
Good old fashioned over watch?
Lots of uses for projection that perception just can't do, or is second fiddle to....
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I'm huge fan of projection, I prefer it over MysAds every-time.
Why exactly?
I see it as a useful scouting tool at best, and something that can be replicated by driving near the area and using Perception.
Reaver's reasons are generally solid, but for me the answer is astral questing. With meta access it does a lot. Most importantly if your gonna keep the really evil spirits down ya gotta be able to finish'em. I also love the Aetherology book, I love it a LOT. Sadly i have yet to find a game that wanted to use it. But I am ever hopeful.
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I know of one in Fayetteville Ar, lol. Near the home of soon to be IRL first AAA corp.
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I'm huge fan of projection, I prefer it over MysAds every-time.
Why exactly?
I see it as a useful scouting tool at best, and something that can be replicated by driving near the area and using Perception.
Need to find someone and you have a material link? Ritual casting with a projecting mage can speed up the location time.
Need to tail a paranoid target? Astral projection.
Need to talk to someone half the world away and don't want to leave a datatrail? Astral projection.
Need that obscure piece of occult info that only spirits know? Astral projection.
Need to know exactly where wards are so your christmas tree mystic adept or physical adept or dual natured partner doesn't debuff/KO/disrupt/alert? Astral projection.
Good old fashioned over watch?
Lots of uses for projection that perception just can't do, or is second fiddle to....
I will add a few more-
Need to check the perimeter? be it offensively or defensibly, an astral mage can cover the ground faster than anyone in meat space.
Its a great way to check for ambushes and setups. A quick look about astrally can help find those vat grown ninjas in the basement way before the street sami steps on the land mines they laid.
Against opposition without magical support its an incredibly useful way to follow someone.
Giving up astral projection is a significant thing. MysAds have their place, its probably the easiest way to build a "gun mage", but its far from inconsequential to give up astral projection.
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Eh. Maybe it's my group. I have never missed it and never felt like it was better than PP in 5th. Astral questing doesn't happen often in my games mainly because it seems pretty selfish for one person to be the focus of entire sessions, or that stuff happens in downtime, which isn't exactly appealing either.
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Kinda agree on the astral questing. It's the magical equivalate of 1-3e matrix work. (When using the matrix to open a door was a GM/decker 20 minute mini-game)
But it is an option.
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Sadly, at time matrix stuff is still a GM/Decker mini game if both don't really understand the rules. Worse when the GM thinks he does 'cause he played a hacker in 4th, but forgot that 5th rewrote how the matrix works. And his old memories and the current rules didn't jive. It made for crappy and boring nights. Current game uses a decker contact and we don't spend a lot of time with matrix stuff.
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Having played deckers and TMs all through 4th and playing in a group with a decker now, it's undeniable that 5th made the process much faster and greatly alleviated the Decker Problem. Decking stuff takes a fraction of the time and doesn't pull people out of the action unless you intentionally jump down the rabbit hole with it.
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Your both Right Wisky and Reaver, and I agree it is fairly selfish, and should never be done during regular session, unless the whole team can/wants to come along. The abbreviated 3rd method wasn't actually too bad, though it generalizing the process to what was essentially a mini-game but it did kinda take the drama out of it. However I don't think that system was officially converted over to fifth, though it wasn't very complex so it could be done fairly readily.
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Ok, given the info provided, I'm revamping a little bit.
Howzabout this...
B:3
A:4
R:3
S:4
C:8
I:5
L:2
W:5
E:1
M:6
Qualities: Mentor spirit (DragonSlayer), Allergy (Common, Mild), Distinctive Style, SINner (National)
SKILLS:
Artificing 1
Assensing 4
Blades 4
Counterspelling 5 (Magic Priority)
Etiquette 1 (bought with karma)
Perception 3
Pilot Ground Craft 1
Running 2
Spellcasting 6
Summoning 2
For adept powers I have this so far (If I stick with Mystic Adept)
Critical Strike (Blades)
Combat Sense 4
Astral Perception
Improved reflexes 1
1 point left to fill (opinions are welcome)
I have $50,000, Thinking that a weapon focus 2 would be fine. Going to be cutting it close with karma.
One question I have, what foci are good, and why?
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For adept powers I have this so far (If I stick with Mystic Adept)
Critical Strike (Blades)
Combat Sense 4
Astral Perception
Improved reflexes 1
1 point left to fill (opinions are welcome)
Probably Improved Reflexes 2. I'd even consider dropping 2 from Combat Sense to get IR3, to move the 3rd pass from "about half the time" to "reliable". Attribute Boost (Agility) 1 or 2 is also good. If you go with 1, I like Improved Sense to fill out the remaining 0.25. Something like vision magnification seems like it'd be fun.
One question I have, what foci are good, and why?
If you're focusing on spellcasting, power foci and sustaining foci are the good ones. For the adept side, weapon foci for the extra dice and bypassing spirit ItNW (the second part being more important) and qi focus for getting more of a limited resource. For standard load-out when you've gotten some runs under you can have the nuyen and karma to spare, a weapon focus 2 and a few qi focus 4 to swap between seems ideal to me. Go for versatility rather than the straight power boost that power or sustaining foci could offer.
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Personally I think IR3 can wait for an initiation. IR2 is good enough.
I am a huge proponent of Combat Sense but I'm not sure if 1 PP wouldn't be better spent on Ability Boost: AGI 1, Enhanced Accuracy (Blades), and Motion Sense.
Make sure your weapon focus has a personalized grip!
Edge 1 is something that needs ASAP fixing though :\
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I love having IR3, but I will have to back Whiskeyjack here. 4 ranks into combat sense at character creation is overkill. Use that extra PP for improved ability blades 2 (you now have an effective rank of 6 for blades). Then drop combat sense by two and do as Whiskeyjack says. Except maybe instead of enhanced accuracy take another rank of agility boost and improves sense (thermal), so now you have all the basic vision mods covered. Also fix edge 1 ASP!
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Thing is, his current Improved Reflexes is rating 1, so that remaining 1 PP should probably go to IR2 first and foremost, then you have to trim existing stuff to add other stuff.
And I took Combat Sense 6 on my face MysAd at chargen and never ever regretted it ;D but then again I wasn't trying to buy all the powers that make melee weapon adepts more badass.
Basic vision mods are what contacts and glasses were made for. I can never see the sense of paying in PP what you can buy cheaply with nuyen. I generally don't like Enhanced Accuracy for that reason but at a certain point you WILL benefit from another +1 ACC on top of Personalized Grip.
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I generally make melee adepts, so I focus more that way. I generally go with Dog Mentor Spirit and pick up vision type I am miss (low light if human, etc.) and usually the version that gives the advanced navigation stuff under enhanced sense power, and use between 1-2 group points on the outdoor skill. Part of this is because my adepts start around squater lifestyle.
My blade adept is currently not at the dice pool for blades for enhanced acc yet, but getting there.
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Ok, put 'flexes up to 2. Thinking about dropping the astral perception, but it is tied to assensing (Which fits the character concept) and is useful for an occult detective type of guy, so I think it has to stay. As far as edge goes, if I drop my Magic to B and raise my race to C I get 3 special attribute points, putting 2 in magic and 1 in edge gives me a 6 and 2, respectively. This drops the two skill i receive at 5 to 4, also, but only one of them is a concern to me, the other can stay at 4. It also drops my spells from 10 to 7.
As far as adding accuracy to the sword, right now I am sitting on a physical limit of 6 and the sword's accuracy is already 7. Getting the grip will still happen, however I think I won't be able to benefit from the adept power a whole lot. With a level 3 focus I am throwing 11 dice to hit that limit.
If I wanted to make a similar build using a regular mage priority, could I use sustaining foci with level 3 reflexes and perhaps an AGI boost, also sustained, to create a similar level of combat ability?
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You use weapons acc not physical limits for most attacks. Dice pool of 11 basically makes it your secondary attack, which is fine. Increase ability (blades) which you can take one rank in place of increase accuracy adds one to your effective rank into that skill. Making your pool be 8(9) pre foci. Dropping astral perception (for now picking it up as a foci later) would free up 1 PP and 4 skills, letting you max blades as well, and have 2 skills let over, one for blades specialization, and one more for either perception or counterspelling, also drop artificing, with rank you will burn yourself out to make anything, this can be used for specialization for your most common spell type to aid in casting. Taking specialization swords adds +2 making you pool 13 with your katana, pre foci, 16 post. Now you have a decent combat skill pool.
I understand wanting to keep astral perception, but for 13 karma & ¥12k you can get a F4 Qi Foci (astral perception) and 1st rank in assensing. Remember majority of assensing test are threshold based, with 4+ hits giving everything you will ever need to know. Another option is not to get the weapon foci yet, get the astral perception foci instead and free up PP that way, and only having 2 ranks in assensing will get you 8 dice, which will get you decent info. And use the 3 (1 from artificing) skill points for specializations in spellcasting, assensing, and blades.
Edit: enhanced acc is .25 pp.
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Don't forget you can pick up (as a spell) extended detect magic, which will give some of the same info as basic assensing will. Such as presence of wards, spirits, etc.
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I second moving Astral Perception over to a Qi Focus. It fits the toolbox aspect of Qi Foci perfectly, being something you want readily available, but don't mind spending a few actions turning it on.
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Yup, also, it doesn't count against foci addiction when off.
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You use weapons acc not physical limits for most attacks. Dice pool of 11 basically makes it your secondary attack, which is fine. Increase ability (blades) which you can take one rank in place of increase accuracy adds one to your effective rank into that skill. Making your pool be 8(9) pre foci. Dropping astral perception (for now picking it up as a foci later) would free up 1 PP and 4 skills, letting you max blades as well, and have 2 skills let over, one for blades specialization, and one more for either perception or counterspelling, also drop artificing, with rank you will burn yourself out to make anything, this can be used for specialization for your most common spell type to aid in casting. Taking specialization swords adds +2 making you pool 13 with your katana, pre foci, 16 post. Now you have a decent combat skill pool.
I understand wanting to keep astral perception, but for 13 karma & ¥12k you can get a F4 Qi Foci (astral perception) and 1st rank in assensing. Remember majority of assensing test are threshold based, with 4+ hits giving everything you will ever need to know. Another option is not to get the weapon foci yet, get the astral perception foci instead and free up PP that way, and only having 2 ranks in assensing will get you 8 dice, which will get you decent info. And use the 3 (1 from artificing) skill points for specializations in spellcasting, assensing, and blades.
The reason for artificing was not to make stuff but for magical forensics. Thank you for informing be about the weapon accuracy being my limit, I was under the assumption that it was the worse of the 2 instead. That makes me happier about the build! I will then take the accuracy adept power, with grip that gives me a 9 limit. Going to pop up the blades skill and specialize as well. Maybe even go for the rating 3 focus after all. Howzabout this:
B:3 A:5 R:3 S:4 C:8 I:4 L:3 W:5 E:2 M:6
Would I be served well if I reduced strength by 1 and put that into agility? Or even drop logic back down to 2? Being an investigator I keep thinking he needs some logic, but maybe he uses his intuition more than logic? 2 is subpar average, amIright?
Adept Power
Astral perception, Attribute Boost AGI 1, Combat Sense 2, Critical strike(Blades) Improved reflexes 2, Enhanced accuracy (Blades), Motion Sense
Seems like a lot of powers!
Skills:
Artificing 1 Assensing 4 Blades 6 (Swords=13) Counterspelling 4 Perception 3 Spellcasting 6
and spending 6 points of karma for 1 point each in etiquette, running and gymnastics.
Sword is AGI 5 + Skill 8 + focus 3 = 16, with a boost of 1 from adept power so 17, with a limit of 9
damage is 7
spellcasting is 12 dice, 14 if combat.
Sounding better?
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Given that I have something of a Mania for Accuracy. I tend to run lower accuracy higher reach weapons on caster primaries, Staff being my favorite, but spear and axe coming in a not two distantly behind.The logic being once you have hit accx3 limit there is no point in pushing the number, while still getting full systemtic advantage. The issues is conservation of resources. It's possible to spend a huge chunk of generation resources on any one of this things. High reach gives you a good systematic advantage, in ether reducing the enemies die pool or at-least protecting yours. You don't want to a character to become MAD (Multi-Attribute Dependent), so this method gives you best possible effect at minimum cost.
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With a dice pool of 17 I probably wouldn't think the 9 ACC is going to make a big deal. 8 is probably enough with dice probability...but then there's not that much to spend .25 PP on, so why not.
Or you could try to get an Elemental Weapon power...though that thing works well in a qi focus too.
Consider looking into the Wudang Sword martial art. Melee attacks not costing a Complex can open up a lot of options.
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If I go sword focus 2 I have enough money and karma to get qi focus 4 for the astral perception, allowing me another point of adept powers. I tentatively put in some mystic armor. I like that a lot, so far. What form does the qi focus come in? I noticed in the box above qi focus they talk about Yantra tattoos, and I was thinking a cool blue tattoo on the right side of the face that glows when activated, along with the eyes, seems pretty badass. Reasonable?
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If you're gonna start with the qi focus, definitely put astral perception in there. If you stick with mystic armor for the extra pp, that one's better being always on. I think combat sense beats mystic armor for most cases, since not being hit > taking less damage, but mystic armor does have the advantage of occasionally making you take stun damage rather than physical.
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If you're gonna start with the qi focus, definitely put astral perception in there. If you stick with mystic armor for the extra pp, that one's better being always on. I think combat sense beats mystic armor for most cases, since not being hit > taking less damage, but mystic armor does have the advantage of occasionally making you take stun damage rather than physical.
Yeah I put the astral perception in it. Good point about the combat sense, too, and it fits the character better. So either pump combat sense up to 4 or I can go only up to 3 and put the other .5 point into boost agility, making that a 3.
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AGI Boost is really useful. For one level, you're rolling 7 dice and each success is +1 AGI for the duration, up to the augmented cap, and soaking 1 Drain is nothing.
This combines well with martial arts abilities like Iaijutsu, so you can use Attribute Boost and make an attack on the same pass.
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Actually, you don't have improved ability (blades) which at rank 3 (max you could take) adds 3 more dice, but cost 1.5 pp. Without astral perception, you have 1 pp which equates to 2 ranks of improved ability blades.
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If I go sword focus 2 I have enough money and karma to get qi focus 4 for the astral perception, allowing me another point of adept powers. I tentatively put in some mystic armor. I like that a lot, so far. What form does the qi focus come in? I noticed in the box above qi focus they talk about Yantra tattoos, and I was thinking a cool blue tattoo on the right side of the face that glows when activated, along with the eyes, seems pretty badass. Reasonable?
But will you have the karma for bonding both of those foci?
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Actually, you don't have improved ability (blades) which at rank 3 (max you could take) adds 3 more dice, but cost 1.5 pp. Without astral perception, you have 1 pp which equates to 2 ranks of improved ability blades.
Why can I only take 3? Because of my remaining allotment of magic points, is that what you mean?
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The max amount of Improved Ability you can have is half of the skill being improved, rounded up.
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Okey, final criticisms!!! Unless I change my mind.
Street Name: Strange Real Name: David Bakan Movement: 12/24 Karma: 0 Street Cred: 0 Notoriety: 0 Public Awareness: 0 Elf Male Age 27 Height 6'1" Weight 170
Composure: 13Judge Intentions: 12 Lift/Carry: 7 (60 kg/40 kg) Memory: 7
Nuyen: 3400
== Priorities ==
Metatype: C - Human, Dwarf, Elf, or Ork
Attributes: A - 24 Attributes
Special: B - Adept, Magician, or Technomancer
Skills: E - 18 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: D - 50,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3 AGI: 6 REA: 3 (5) STR: 4 CHA: 8 INT: 4 LOG: 2 WIL: 5 EDG: 2 MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 7 (9) + 3d6
Rigger Initiative: 9 + 3d6
Astral Initiative: 8 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 9 + 3d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 4 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 4 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 6 Mental: 5 Social: 9 Astral: 9
== Active Skills ==
Arcana : 1 Pool: 3
Artificing : 1 Pool: 7
Assensing : 4 Pool: 8
Blades : 6 [Swords] Pool: 15 (17)
Counterspelling : 4 Pool: 10
Perception : 3 Pool: 7
Spellcasting : 6 Pool: 12
== Knowledge Skills ==
English : 3 Pool: 7
Magical Forensincs : 4 Pool: 6
Police Procedures : 2 Pool: 4
Sperethiel : N Pool: 0
Underworld : 3 Pool: 7
== Contacts ==
; Talismonger (3, 5)
Darren O'connor; Police Chief (5, 3)
== Qualities ==
Allergy (Uncommon, Severe) (Silver)
Distinctive Style
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Dragonslayer)
Mystic Adept
SINner (National) (Tir Tairngire)
== Spells ==
(Tradition: Path of the Wheel, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (13))
Analyze Truth DV: F-2
Ball Lightning DV: F-1
Detect Individual DV: F-3
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Levitate DV: F-2
Stunbolt DV: F-3
== Powers ==
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 1
Combat Sense Rating: 2
Critical Strike (Blades)
Enhanced Accuracy (skill) (Blades)
Improved Ability (skill) (Blades) Rating: 3
Improved Reflexes 2
== Lifestyles ==
Low 2 months
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
+Nonconductivity 4
Forearm Guards 1
Helmet 2
+Flare Compensation
+Image Link
+Low Light
+Thermographic Vision
+Vision Magnification
== Weapons ==
Katana
+Personalized Grip
Pool: 15 (17) Accuracy: 9 DV: 8P AP: -3 RC: 3
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 5 Accuracy: 6 DV: 4S AP: - RC: 3
== Commlink ==
Hermes Ikon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 5, FWL: 5)
== Gear ==
Autopicker Rating 1
Fake License (Private Investigator) Rating 4
Fake License (Magician) Rating 4
Glasses Rating 1
+Image Link
Qi Focus (Bonded Foci) (Astral Perception) Rating 4
Weapon Focus (Bonded Foci) (Katana) Rating 2
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
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You have .25 of a power point to spend (you can't switch out free mentor powers) assuming you spent 30 karma on PP. MyAds must spend 5 karma (character gen only) for each PP (no partial karma can be bought), figure you know this, just a friendly reminder. You don't have danger sense listed, it is free and there is nothing you can do about it. Also, .25 left can pick up another rank of attribute boost (agility). Spell wise, you look good. Not sure on how much karma you actually spent. Gear wise, you have fake lisense, but no fake SIN, never use your real SIN while doing illegal stuff, otherwise you a criminal SIN and life becomes 100x worse on a good day.
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I'd just drop the Mentor Spirit entirely. There isn't a one of them that's worth the cost on them.
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I'd just drop the Mentor Spirit entirely. There isn't a one of them that's worth the cost on them.
Are you saying no mentor spirit is worth 5 karma?
If so...hahaha
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You're welcome to disagree, but there's enough things to do with that karma that I'd rather do anything else other than blow 5 on a Mentor Spirit.
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If you go magician side, it's an extra specialization on spellcasting or summoning, on top of +2 to a relevant skill. Adept gets 0.5 extra PP on top of +2 skill
Admittedly, most of the +2 skills are social ones, but you can't convince me that +2 Perception (Eagle mentor spirit) isn't worth 5 karma, if you don't want one of the social mentors.
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You have .25 of a power point to spend (you can't switch out free mentor powers) assuming you spent 30 karma on PP. MyAds must spend 5 karma (character gen only) for each PP (no partial karma can be bought), figure you know this, just a friendly reminder. You don't have danger sense listed, it is free and there is nothing you can do about it. Also, .25 left can pick up another rank of attribute boost (agility). Spell wise, you look good. Not sure on how much karma you actually spent. Gear wise, you have fake lisense, but no fake SIN, never use your real SIN while doing illegal stuff, otherwise you a criminal SIN and life becomes 100x worse on a good day.
I don't get danger sense, I got the +2 combat pool dice.
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 1 =.25
Combat Sense Rating: 2 =1
Critical Strike (Blades) =.5
Enhanced Accuracy (skill) (Blades) =.25
Improved Ability (skill) (Blades) Rating: 3 =1.5
Improved Reflexes 2= 2.5
that all adds to 6
Looks like I forgot to get the fake SIN. Hope I have enough cash!
I'd just drop the Mentor Spirit entirely. There isn't a one of them that's worth the cost on them.
From my mentor spirit, I get +2 dice combat and +2 dice etiquette. That makes my etiquette 11 by investing only one point into it, and my combat dice 14, which is pretty decent. Plus, from a roleplaying standpoint, I like mentor spirits.
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Looks like I forgot to get the fake SIN. Hope I have enough cash!
You'll need 10,000 for it.
Like I said, I just normally have better things to spend karma on than those. Personal preference and all that jazz, but I'll still advise against them for the reason I gave.
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No (fake) Sin = no sneaky approaches towards anything remotely corp related. Might work in a heavy pink Mohawk or streetscum setting, but normally this is a way to dangerous approach.
Regarding Mentor Spirits: Cheapest 0,5 PP ever. There is hardly a case where you shouldn't take one at Chargen
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The only big issue with Mentor spirits boils down to Player/GM expectations.
Some players see a mentor spirit as "free dice" then ignore everything else about the mentor.
Some GMs see mentors as a way to club players on the head as the slightest reason. (It's Tuesday, everyone knows Wolf hates doing shit on Tuesdays. You're -2 to magical skills.)
As always, talk to your GM and see what/how he handles them. You COULD be opening yourself up to a headache if he's the "club" type of GM...
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I typically do not take mentor spirit at char gen, if I play a mysad. In our table, the costs of the ways are always 20, and mysads can initiate to arts without the magician's way. I will take spiritual way later and get a free mentor spirit.
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I don't see a real issue with mentors numbers wise 5 pts for +2 to a spell type ain't bad. Shark is a steal with +2 to unarmed.
The are plenty of others that are viable by the numbers alone, I'm not sure on the GM issue, I have never run across it, but I have no proof to offer ether way.
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Sorry, forget MysAds get to pick which they want. I love free .5 PP and basically a skill specialization. Which mentor spirit I take depends on the character set up in question. Even for 10 karma mentors are generally decent, as long as you don't have a crapy GM. But that is true for most things, beyond just mentor spirits.
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In the 1st edition I was really drawn to the burnout mage, but never played one. Was messing around with point buy on Chummer, and came up with the following: A former corp mage for Renraku who was part of a security team that got decimated. Lost an arm and his eyes melted in the explosion, so they replaced those. Was depressed for a few years, still working for Renraku who trained him to be more physical. Quite despondent and unable to perform day to day, he was deemed unfit for service. A company man who had worked with him before took pity on him and, knowing some of the less desireables who could make it happen, made the mage disappear and burned his SIN. The mage has recovered mentally and is ready to get back into action.
Name: Corp mage-burnout
Movement: 6/12
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 7
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 8
Nuyen: 600
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3(right arm 6)
REA: 5 (8)
STR: 2(right arm 6)
CHA: 2
INT: 6
LOG: 3
WIL: 5
EDG: 3
MAG: 4
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.16
Initiative: 11 (14) + 1d6
Rigger Initiative: 14 + 1d6
Astral Initiative: 12 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 14 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 6 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 6 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 5
Mental: 6
Social: 5
Astral: 6
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 1
Archery : 0 Pool: 2
Armorer : 0 Pool: 2
Assensing : 4 Pool: 10
Automatics : 6 Pool: 9
Blades : 6 [Swords] Pool: 9 (11)
Clubs : 0 Pool: 2
Computer : 0 Pool: 2
Con : 0 Pool: 1
Counterspelling : 4 Pool: 8
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 2
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 2
Disguise : 0 Pool: 5
Diving : 0 Pool: 2
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 2
Etiquette : 1 Pool: 5
First Aid : 0 Pool: 2
Forgery : 0 Pool: 2
Free-Fall : 0 Pool: 2
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 2
Gymnastics : 3 Pool: 6
Hacking : 0 Pool: 2
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 2
Impersonation : 0 Pool: 1
Instruction : 0 Pool: 1
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 1
Leadership : 0 Pool: 1
Longarms : 0 Pool: 2
Navigation : 0 Pool: 5
Negotiation : 0 Pool: 1
Perception : 3 Pool: 9
Performance : 0 Pool: 1
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 9
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 7
Pistols : 0 Pool: 2
Running : 2 Pool: 4
Sneaking : 2 Pool: 5
Spellcasting : 6 Pool: 12
Survival : 0 Pool: 4
Swimming : 0 Pool: 1
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 2
Tracking : 0 Pool: 5
Unarmed Combat : 1 Pool: 4
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Contacts ==
; Company Man (3, 3)
== Qualities ==
Addiction (Moderate) (Foci)
Astral Beacon
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Dragonslayer)
The Burnout's Way
== Spells ==
(Tradition: Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with WIL + INT (11))
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Levitate DV: F-2
Physical Barrier DV: F-1
Stunbolt DV: F-3
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Cybereyes Basic System Rating 2
+Image Link
+Low-Light Vision
+Smartlink
+Thermographic Vision
Datajack
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 6, STR 6, Physical 8) (Right)
+Customized Agility Rating 6
+Customized Strength Rating 6
+Armor Rating 3
+Commlink
+Shock Hand
Reaction Enhancers Rating 3
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
Forearm Guards 1
Helmet 2
== Weapons ==
Cyberarm
Pool: 4 Accuracy: 0 DV: 6P AP: - RC: 2
HK Urban Combat
+Smartgun System, Internal
+Sound Suppressor
Pool: 9 Accuracy: 9 DV: 8P AP: - RC: 4
Katana
+Personalized Grip
Pool: 9 (11) Accuracy: 8 DV: 5P AP: -3 RC: 2
Shock Hand
Pool: 4 Accuracy: 5 DV: 9S(e) AP: -5 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 4 Accuracy: 5 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 2
== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6)
== Gear ==
Fake SIN (Fake SIN) Rating 4
Power Focus (Bonded Foci) Rating 2
Weapon Focus (Bonded Foci) (Katana) Rating 3
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
So with sword he gets 8 (sword skill) + 3 (focus) and + 5 ( 3 agi left arm, 6 agi right arm, average 4.5 so 5)=16? Is that right? and damage would be 5p?
and with HK he gets 6 (automatics skill) + 6 (right arm agility) + 2 (smartlink)=14?
and with combat spells he is at 6 (spellcasting) + 4 (magic) + 2 (power focus) +2 (if combat casting) = 12 or 14?
How does this semi-burnout look?
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You're welcome to disagree, but there's enough things to do with that karma that I'd rather do anything else other than blow 5 on a Mentor Spirit.
From a mechanical point of view I actually find this a bargain. +2 to a spell category, plus another bonus, for only 5 karma is amazing. They do come with a disadvantage, but if you choose wisely those are very manageable. I put a mentor spirit on almost every caster that I build.
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Burnouts Way is only for Adepts and MyAds, as are all the Ways. Better to use one-handed swords and don't average anything. That way you have dice pool of 17 and 6+weapon damage for your DV value. R&G has the Horizon Flynn Rapier that is actually pretty good or the mono-sword which is also not bad. And use machine pistols or just pistols so that way you don't have to average your pool for that. You can't start with the HK Urban Combat unless you have the PQ that let's you get gear above the normal availability limit of 12, which I don't remember the name of.
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I only lose one point with going two handed, so that isn't so bad. Alternatively, I could raise the str on the arm.... My limit is reduced by 2 by using the Ares monosword, and my damage would be the same with the rapier. I kinda like the idea of the monosword, but a limit of 6 (when customized with the grip) seems a little low. 16 dice with a limit of 8 seems a bit high, though...Doesn't seem I'd hit that limit a whole lot. Average hits with 17 dice (assuming 1/3) would be 5 2/3, with 16 it is 5 1/3, so the Monosword loses on potential but wins on average
I already removed the burnouts way. I caught that when reading another thread about burnouts. I think overall with the power focus and such he comes off quite good, yeah? Decent enough spellcaster, and decent with the focus sword. I changed him up a bit, mentor spirit is now chaos, different spells and such, and changed him from a full magician to an aspected one.
I totally missed the availability on that gun. I didn't know that SMG's are considered two handed.... I guess I will be using firearms as a backup if my casting is still working, yeah?
Mechanics-wise, is having a power focus basically the same thing as having those points like regular? Meaning, does a magic score of 4 with a power focus 2 = magic score of 6 in all areas that matter?
Thanks again for the help.
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Armor 3 in your cyberarm has availability 15.
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Armor 3 in your cyberarm has availability 15.
Well crap.
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Power foci are equivalent to raising magic. With that much foci, he will most likely have foci addiction. The rapier would actually fit really well with the former SIN wage mage. It has the feel of: I am an elite, see I use a Horizon-Flynn, you sir, use a boring sword.
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Power foci basically add to MAG-related dice pools but not determinations like "is this overcasting when I compare. Spell Force to my MAG stat."
This is not explained well in the book by any stretch.
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There is no real hard rule in SR5 on whether SMG are one or twohanded.
I'd allow both, due to "realism" and continuity from 4th.
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While for the game there is no rules against it, realistically they are a two handed weapon. Otherwise recoil is to much with the weapon weight.
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Ok, in regards to weapon skill choice, what would a Japanese based, shadowrun corporation train their security forces? I would imagine automatics, yes? I suppose it could be pistol, if you were mage support instead of main firepower.
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Most likely Automatics first, with specializations that fit with there role, fallowed by pistols, long arms, a heavy weapons depending on squad roles. Sniper would be one of the exceptions. Mage might be pistols or automatics (machine pistols) depending on other roles he fills.
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While for the game there is no rules against it, realistically they are a two handed weapon. Otherwise recoil is to much with the weapon weight.
Nah.
Realistically, thats a question of caliber, ROF, size of the specific gun, your personal strength and how the weapon is built.
You can give a filmsy Nerd a P90 and he could fire it auto while hitting a standing target. He couldn't do the same with quite a lot of other weapons, including some FA pistols.
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Well my 1928 Thompson is bigger and heavier then my AK or my AR15.... and the Thompson is an SMG.
so very much matters on the weapon.... but traditionally, all SMGs are designed of 2 handed use for control of the weapon.... although some (like the mini Uzi, and TMP) do look like you could use 1 handed... until you start throwing lead down range.... and sail them over the heads of the target.... (depending on the range)
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In real life you should use both hands even if you fire a pistol. However, game abstraction, cinematographic action, yadda-yadda.
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Ok, how necessary is astral projection over perception if you are the only mage in the group? Could I do the majority of the mage needs with just an aspected sorcerer?
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Depends on the table and the players preference. Some think projection is a must have, others don't. But, as only mage in the group full is always better than aspected.
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I wouldn't say it's necessary.
I also don't ever consider aspected magicians because they lose out on so much.
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No, they don't "lose out". They choose one of the three areas of Magician to specialize in, giving up projection in the process. Really, they're better of than a full mage because they have fewer skills they need to invest in.
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No, they don't "lose out". They choose one of the three areas of Magician to specialize in, giving up projection in the process. Really, they're better of than a full mage because they have fewer skills they need to invest in.
Maybe in Life Modules or Karmagen, but in Priority/Sum-to-Ten, they definitely lose out. You don't get spells, preparations, rituals, spirits. You get skill groups which you can't break.
On top of that, if you choose Aspected Magician: Alchemist, the fastest way to an effective character is to take 'ware and turn into a street sam.
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No, they don't "lose out".
Not having access to spirits sucks. Not having access to spellcasting sucks.
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For a burnout mage, doesn't aspected sorcerer kind of fit? I mean, you are going to invest in some combat skills because your lower magic rating makes you more likely to take drain, so you are less likely to cast combat spells. You spread your skill set thinner by doing so, specializing seems pretty efficient at that point. To me, if you are playing something other than just the regular 'magician' you have to specialize or risk being totally ineffective instead of just less versatile. I still don't know about losing astral projection, though. For a burnout kind of guy, being aspected allows you to only worry about a couple of mental skills (for instance, intuition and willpower only if you have the proper path) and it won't handicap you in astral space because you can't go there, only perceive. Now your physical stats will be better. Less of a mage, to be sure, but is it enough of a mage to handle the job that the mage needs to do?
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Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
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Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Are you saying that an adept with cyber is a replacement for a mage?
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Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Are you saying that an adept with cyber is a replacement for a mage?
If that role is "killing spirits," then they can be.
But my point was more that adepts can mechanically benefit from burning or where mages really cannot. Losing 1 ESS can be acceptable for a Mage but losing more generally isn't.
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No, they don't "lose out".
Not having access to spirits sucks. Not having access to spellcasting sucks.
With Aspected, you're playing a specialist. With Full Mage, you're playing a generalist. By very nature, it takes fewer generation resources for Aspected to be good at their area than it does for the Full Mage to be good at all he can do.
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Sadly, the basic character generation rule (Priority) doesn't support that. Alchemy is this edition sucks (outside of the new corner cases with MysAds and archery). And only having either summoning or Spellcasting limits what a mage can do.
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I really wish that aspected magicians at the least had 1 higher magic at all priority levels (maybe except D). Giving them the same at priority C as full magicians is terrible, and 5 at B means that D elves or C orks can't get maxed without spending 30 karma.
It wouldn't fix everything, but it would at least give them a lot more options in viable builds.
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Priority is just a bad generation system. Most things other than max Strength/Body Trolls are better served by the other generation options.
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Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Are you saying that an adept with cyber is a replacement for a mage?
If that role is "killing spirits," then they can be.
But my point was more that adepts can mechanically benefit from burning or where mages really cannot. Losing 1 ESS can be acceptable for a Mage but losing more generally isn't.
Yeah, I totally get that. Unfortunately, that doesn't help with the question!
Priority is just a bad generation system. Most things other than max Strength/Body Trolls are better served by the other generation options.
Agreed. We are actually discussing if we should go karma point build or maybe the life modules build. One allows you to perfectly customize your character, the other outfits them with a more realistic skill set, at the expense of specialization.
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Karma has some of the same issues when you take certain metatyoes or want high stats.
Really the 5e generation (and ware costs) is reactionary to 4e's ease of One True Builds and hitting competency caps straight from chargen.
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No, they don't "lose out".
Priority is just a bad generation system. Most things other than max Strength/Body Trolls are better served by the other generation options.
I'm sorry if I'm being rude but have you played 5e? First you say that mentor spirits are not worth 5 karma, now this.
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Put together an Aspected Sorceror earlier today that I'd actually consider using. Since I don't mess with rituals, I only needed four magical skills--Assensing, Arcana, Counterspelling and Spellcasting--so he could be good at a few other things. Went kind of a stealthy combat mage, and it turned out pretty decent.
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Aspected mages would be great if they had free spells.
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Aspected mages would be great if they had free spells.
You do need to be careful, but using the karma generation, it seems to really work out. Honestly, a newbie would probably be better served to play an Aspected Sorceror for his first Awakened due to their specializing.
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I think that it is a quite an opposite case. You must know exactly what you do when you choose to play an aspected mage. It is not a foolproof or safe and easy option.
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I have only played mages that didn't have summoning, because that never really appealed to me, but now I don't know much about it, so I am hesitant to build on with it.
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Put together an Aspected Sorceror earlier today that I'd actually consider using. Since I don't mess with rituals, I only needed four magical skills--Assensing, Arcana, Counterspelling and Spellcasting--so he could be good at a few other things. Went kind of a stealthy combat mage, and it turned out pretty decent.
Can you make a thread about it? I'm curious to see the build.
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Aspected Magicians definitely get less screwed in KarrmaGen and Life Modules. Not sure if they can exceed Mage/Mystic Adept, but they can compete.
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Aspected Magicians definitely get less screwed in KarrmaGen and Life Modules. Not sure if they can exceed Mage/Mystic Adept, but they can compete.
I have to disagree, it appears that aspected magicians weren't really thought about much. Only 2 of the magic options have aspected listed for them, all the rest have no options for them. The Teen magic one has sorcery and conjuring 1, the higher learning schools are OK if you are a sorcerer, conjurers get the shaft, Wage Mage gets sorcery and conjuring 2. Law enforcement is fine for sorcerers, Postgraduate studies is fine for any except you would have only sorcery from the colleges, so you would most likely be a sorcerer. Since most would be, that is OK. All the tours of duty get conjuring and sorcery. Street magic address aspected magicians, only to give them the SHAFT. With street mage you get a +2 on sorcery skill group AND +3 to conjuring. The aspected gets to choose which one he wants to do, but only gets a +1. They get totally screwed in life modules when compared to mages. Odd fact, the alchemist only gets one life module to help him, the magic from teen.
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Ok another build, this one using life modules with the Mystic Adept. Basically just a mage. Or combat mage. Was super hard balancing karma after life modules. Can probably build a more streamlined guy with just Karma build, but this guy has a lot of skills. Perception is junk but his assensing is OK, others will probably be good at the perception.
Name: Daavereon Movement: 6/12 Elf Male Age 48 Height 6'2" Weight 178
Composure: 12 Judge Intentions: 10 Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg) Memory: 8
Nuyen: 4775
Life Modules : Tir Tairngire, Rich Kid, Magical Education, Wage Mage, Street Mage
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3
REA: 3 (5)
STR: 2
CHA: 6
INT: 4
LOG: 2
WIL: 6
EDG: 2
MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 7 (9) + 3d6
Rigger Initiative: 9 + 3d6
Astral Initiative: 8 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 9 + 3d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 4 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 4 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 4
Mental: 5
Social: 8
Astral: 8
== Active Skills ==
Alchemy : 1 Pool: 7
Arcana : 4 Pool: 6
Artificing : 1 Pool: 7
Artisan : 1 Pool: 5
Assensing : 5 Pool: 9
Astral Combat : 2 Pool: 8
Banishing : 6 Pool: 12
Binding : 6 Pool: 12
Blades : 1 Pool: 4
Computer : 4 Pool: 6
Counterspelling : 5 Pool: 11
Disenchanting : 1 Pool: 7
Etiquette : 2 Pool: 10
Leadership : 2 Pool: 8
Palming : 1 Pool: 4
Perception : 1 Pool: 5
Ritual Spellcasting : 5 Pool: 11
Sneaking : 1 Pool: 4
Spellcasting : 5 Pool: 11 (13 Combat)
Summoning : 6 Pool: 12
Survival : 1 Pool: 7
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Tir Tairngire : 1 Pool: 5
Area Knowledge: Seattle : 1 Pool: 5
Charity Shelters : 5 Pool: 9
Corporation : 3 Pool: 5
English : 2 Pool: 6
History : 1 Pool: 3
Japanese : 2 Pool: 6
Magic Law : 1 Pool: 3
Magic Traditions : 3 Pool: 5
Magical Theory : 5 Pool: 7
Magical Threats : 4 Pool: 6
Music : 3 Pool: 7
Parazoology : 4 Pool: 6
Spanish : 3 Pool: 7
Sperethiel : 1 Pool: 5
== Qualities ==
In Debt III
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Dragonslayer)
Mystic Adept
Prejudiced (Common, Outspoken) (Poor)
SINner (Corporate Limited)
Trust Fund II
== Spells ==
(Tradition: Path of the Wheel, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (12))
Ball Lightning DV: F-1
Chaotic World DV: F
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Levitate DV: F-2
Physical Barrier DV: F-1
Stunbolt DV: F-3
== Powers ==
Combat Sense Rating: 4
Improved Reflexes 2
Spell Resistance Rating: 3
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 2 Accuracy: 4 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 2
== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6)
== Gear ==
Fake License (Mage License) Rating 3
Fake SIN Rating 3
Glasses Rating 1
+Image Link
Qi Focus Rating 4 (not activated)
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I'd change rich kid to arcology living... changes some of your non-primary skills but adds +1 logic
you can always pick up trust fund w/karma. Since you'ld be corp citizenry since you were born I'd go up from Limited SIN to Full. You wont be able to get In debt but the extra 10 Karma for going o Full Corporate SIN can easily replace the 15000 you were getting from In Debt.
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I'd change rich kid to arcology living... changes some of your non-primary skills but adds +1 logic
you can always pick up trust fund w/karma. Since you'ld be corp citizenry since you were born I'd go up from Limited SIN to Full. You wont be able to get In debt but the extra 10 Karma for going o Full Corporate SIN can easily replace the 15000 you were getting from In Debt.
That's an interesting idea. Is it legal rules wise to upgrade the SIN? Changing to Arcology or corp drone, even, would get rid of prejudiced to poor. That alone will allow me some breathing room.
Ok so I changed from rich kid to arcology living. Lost trust fund and prejudiced, artisan 1 (who cares), Lead 2 (no biggie) music 3 (just put something random in there, anyways) and lost spanish. I lost 2 points in computer, but made that up with the group skill electronics 2. Gained that 1 point of Logic (which upped my logic to 3, but that drained 5 more karma because the price difference of going attribute point 1-2 as opposed to going 2-3), gave me 2 more etiquitte, and some corp knowledge (speaking of which, what would be a good corp from Tir? going to have to look that up.) Actually upped my in debt to 7 to free up some regular karma that I had used for nuyen, and also got the quality 'did you just call me dumb?' which fits the character. I like the in debt to give him a reason to go 'running. That netted me 8 karma which I used to bond the qi focus (4) to get astral perception.
Thanks for the idea!
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Ok, based on a variety of information, and having to use Life Modules, here is my mostly done character. He fancies himself a bit of a ninja. Anyway, spell choice. Do you think Mind Probe is useful and makes sense for this characters background (former Shiawase wage mage, mostly doing security because he is not very smart.). Would confusion be a decent add-on, considering he has 13 dice right now (15 when I specialize) in illusions, with already having Chaotic World? Any comments are welcome.
== Info ==
Street Name: Zer0 Name: Thomas Hirosuki, Human Movement: 6/12 Karma: 0 Street Cred: 0 Notoriety: 3 Public Awareness: 0
Composure: 7 Judge Intentions: 8 Lift/Carry: 6 (45 kg/30 kg) Memory: 7
Nuyen: 1585
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3
REA: 3 (5)
STR: 3
CHA: 2
INT: 6
LOG: 2
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
MAG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 5.01
Initiative: 9 (11) + 3d6
Rigger Initiative: 11 + 3d6
Astral Initiative: 12 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 11 + 3d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 6 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 6 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 5
Mental: 5
Social: 5
Astral: 5
== Active Skills ==
Alchemy : 1 Pool: 6
Arcana : 4 Pool: 6
Artificing : 1 Pool: 6
Assensing : 5 Pool: 11
Astral Combat : 2 Pool: 7
Automatics : 4 Pool: 7
Banishing : 5 Pool: 10
Binding : 5 Pool: 10
Blades : 4 Pool: 7
Clubs : 1 Pool: 4
Computer : 1 Pool: 3
Con : 2 Pool: 6
Counterspelling : 5 Pool: 10
Disenchanting : 1 Pool: 6
Impersonation : 2 Pool: 4
Negotiation : 1 Pool: 3
Palming : 1 Pool: 4
Perception : 2 Pool: 8
Performance : 2 Pool: 4
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 6
Ritual Spellcasting : 5 Pool: 10
Running : 1 Pool: 4
Sneaking : 2 Pool: 5
Spellcasting : 6 Pool: 11
Summoning : 5 Pool: 10
Survival : 1 Pool: 6
Unarmed Combat : 1 Pool: 4
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Seattle (Street) : 6 Pool: 12
Charity Shelters : 5 Pool: 11
Denver : 2 Pool: 8
English : N Pool: 0
History : 1 Pool: 3
Japanese (Language) : 2 Pool: 8
Philosophy (Academic) : 3 Pool: 5
Magical Law : 1 Pool: 3
Magical Theory : 5 Pool: 7
Magical Threats (Academic) : 4 Pool: 6
Parazoology (Academic) : 4 Pool: 6
Shiawase : 3 Pool: 5
Spanish : 1 Pool: 7
UCAS : 1 Pool: 3
== Contacts ==
Kinnori-san; Shiawase; Company Man (3, 3)
== Qualities ==
Bad Rep-Yakuza
Distinctive Style (cyberarm, bio-tattoo)
In Debt V-Yakuza
Mentor Spirit (Chaos)
Mystic Adept
Paranoia
SINner (Corporate Limited) (Shiawase)
== Life Modules ==
Denver (UCAS Sector)
Fugitive
Magical Education (Mystic Adept)
Skipped Further Education
Wage Mage
Street Mage
== Spells ==
(Tradition: Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with WIL + INT (11))
Ball Lightning DV: F-1
Chaotic World DV: F
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Levitate DV: F-2
Mind Probe DV: F
Stunbolt DV: F-3
Trid Entertainment DV: F-2
== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Combat Sense Rating: 3
Improved Reflexes 2
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Datajack (deltaware)
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 8, STR 6, Physical 7) (Right)(alphaware)
+Armor Rating 2
+Customized Agility Rating 6
+Customized Strength Rating 6
+Enhanced Agility Rating 2
Smartlink (betaware)
Bio-Tattoo-Japanese sleeve tattoo on left arm == Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
Forearm Guards 1
Helmet 2
+Image Link
+Low Light
+Thermographic Vision
== Weapons ==
SCK Model 100
+Folding Stock
+Gas-Vent 3 System
+Personalized Grip
+Sling
+Smartgun System, Internal
+Spare Clip
Pool: 12(14) Accuracy: 8 DV: 8P AP: - RC: 6
Ninja-to
+Custom Look
+Personalized Grip
Pool: 15 Accuracy: 7 DV: 9P AP: -2 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 9 Accuracy: 5 DV: 6S AP: - RC: 2
== Commlink ==
Novatech NetNinja (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 5, FWL: 5)
== Gear ==
Earbuds Rating 1
+Sound Link
Weapon Focus (Bonded Foci) (Sword) Rating 3
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2