Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: drakir on <11-18-15/1423:29>
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This character is kind of proof why you dont have to take skills as a high prority...
Can seduce someone with 17 dice, Negotiate at 15, 19 dice with a Pistol and much more with skills at E.
Not a primary fighter (too low initiative) but skilled both at ranged and close combat if need be.
Apart from really low Edge, any criticisms/comments? I'm not entirely finished yet (some gear and neg qualities left).
Priorities: Meta D, Attributes B, Magic B, Skills E, Resources B (Sum2ten)
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 6(9), Rea 3(4), Str 2, Cha 8, Int 5, Log 2, Wil 3, Edge 1, Magic 5, Init 9+2D6, Essence 5.15
Qualities: Prototype Transhuman, Mentor Spirit (Raven), Too Pretty to Hit, 25 point negatives.
Augmentations: Synaptic Booster rat 1, Tailored Pheromones rat 3, Used Muscle Toner rat 3
Adept Powers: Commanding Voice, Cool Resolve 1, Authoritative Tone 2, Combat Sense 1, Facial Sculpt 1, Critical Strike (clubs), Improved Skill 1(pistols), Improved Sense (Human Scale) and Traceless Walk + Voice Control from Raven Mentor.
Skills:
16(18) Pistols (Semi Automatics) 6+2 (19 with smartlink or laser)
15(17) Clubs (Batons) 6+2 (10S(e) with stun baton and crit strike)
12 Con 1 (Acting Group with karma + Cool Resolve and Raven) (17 with Pheromones and Authoritative Tone)
10 Impersonation 1 (Acting Group with karma + Cool Resolve)
10 Performance 1 (Acting Group with karma + Cool Resolve)
10 Negotiation 1 (Influence Group with karma + Cool Resolve) (15 with Pheromones and Authoritative Tone)
10 Etiquette 1 (Influence Group with karma + Cool Resolve)
12 Leadership 1 (Influence Group with karma + Cool Resolve and Authoritative Tone)
10(12) Locksmith (Maglocks) 1+2
11 Perception 6
7 Disguise 1 (Stealth Group with Karma + Facial Sculpt)
10 Sneaking 1 (Stealth Group with Karma)
10 Palming 1 (Stealth Group with Karma)
10 Gymnastics 1 (Athletics Group with Karma)
3 Running 1 (Athletics Group with Karma)
3 Swimming 1 (Athletics Group with Karma)
Contacts: 24 points. Haven't decided yet. Suggestions?
Gear:
Low Lifestyle, Fake SIN rat 4, Fake License (Concealed Carry) rate 4, Browning UP, Stun Baton, Renraku Sensei, Armor Jacket, some ammo, some B&E tools.
I can't afford fancy armor, better commlink and better lifestyle. Something has to give. Expensive B&E tools, visual and hearing enhancements have to wait but shouldn't be too hard to get in game. Giving up Athletics for more karma money is an option. What would you do?
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Gotta say that I'm meh on Pistols. I think you'd be better off to switch to Automatics for that sweet, sweet -5 to defender's dodge from a Simple Full-Auto attack. Grab a Cavalier Evanator from Gun Heaven 3, give it Gas-Vent 3 and you can do that Simple Full-Auto attack ALL THE DAY LONG, even with your measly 2 Strength.
Also, it gives you much better options for range. Pistols top out at 60 meters. Automatics top out at 550meters. Get in a long-range gun battle and you'll be wishing you could bring an Assault Rifle.
On the other hand, as a Face, why are you wasting time shooting people? You should be maxing out Leadership and granting all your teammates another initiative pass each combat turn. It's even better if you take Adrenaline Surge so that the first action of every combat is you Rallying your team and giving them +2-4 initiative.
A decently optimized Leadership skill is ... what ... Charisma 8 + Leadership 6 + Rally 2 + Tailored Pheromones 3 + Clothing 2 = 21, right? That should be getting your team +3-4 initiative across the board for each of your Complex actions. That's way better than shooting again. With that, you can let real combat people shoot again, most likely.
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This character should be able to go up to 17 dice rallying. (Cha 8 + skill 1 + cool resolve 1 + Authoritative Tone 2 + Clothing 2 + Pheromones 3). I think that's enough (and easy to raise with karma)
Unsure what GM would say about using pheromones in this situation though. Of course if the other character is really close, but in a firefight what really is the range on pheromones? Not that great (especially outside)
The change to automatics I can do. Character is very influenced by a PC that's not mine in a group I'm playing in now. Hadn't built an adept with ware before. This is my version. I like tinkering as a mental exercise of sorts.
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Cool Resolve only applies to Opposed Social skill tests. Rally is unopposed.
Where does Authoritative Tone come from? I couldn't find it easily.
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Where does Authoritative Tone come from? I couldn't find it easily.
Street Grimoire errata, replacing Commanding Voice.
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Forgot about cool resolve only working on opposed tests (And Chummer is not helping me remember). I don't remember if Authoritative tone has the same problem but if I were GM I would not be hard to convince that it should work for rallying. Authority seems fitting on rallying...
Halinn is right that it is replacing the commanding voice in Street Grimoire on page 170, but it now costs 0,5 pp/level so must be better in some way. IIRC it is a bonus on every social skill initiated by the character. (can't be used defensively)
I could also move the improved skill to either negotiate or leadership to be even better at "facing".
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Halinn is right that it is replacing the commanding voice in Street Grimoire on page 170, but it now costs 0,5 pp/level so must be better in some way. IIRC it is a bonus on every social skill initiated by the character. (can't be used defensively)
"Adepts with this power can speak in a way that immediately makes people want to believe them and follow their orders. For every level of this power, an adept gains a +1 die to any Opposed Social Skill Test that they initiate (normal limits apply)"
There's also a Commanding Voice in Stolen Souls, that costs 1 pp and works more or less like 4E Commanding Voice (some changes, but the function is the same).
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Your usage of Ptototype Transhuman is a bit off to me. The idea is that you get up to 1 point with no Essence cost is because you were grown that way. Using .5 from Synaptic Boosters and .5 for 2 ratings in used Muscle Toner, then throwing on a 3rd rating "after birth" is a bit wonky if you ask me.
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@Danny
Yes. I started with rating 2 synaptic boosters but found that the money was not enough for everything I wanted and then in the mixture it ended up a bit off. Still rules legal I think but as you so eloquently put it, "a bit wonky".
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I'm like, 90% sure that to upgrade bioware you need to take it completely out and have it replaced. Since it originally didn't cost essence, there's no essence hole for the new bioware to fill.
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I would change Adept to D and race to B [Elf(6)], you lose 4 skill points but you gain enough special points to bring magic to 6 and edge to 3.
Get rid of the locksmith and change pistols to automatics. (machine pistols).
I'd get the remington suppressor and trick it out (because it's 7p -1 and has a sound suppressor that's not forbidden).
You still need to get rid of 2 skill points so I'd chance clubs from 6(+2) to 5.
Personally I'd get rid of Prototype Transhuman and fit in Improved Attribute (Magic)...so you'll start with 7Magic and 2 edge. Buy only Alpha Muscle Toner{2} and Tailored Pheromones[3] and Alpha Reflex Recorder. Don't buy Synaptic Boosters. Now you have Magic 6 rework your powers to fit in Improved Reflexes. You'd save 73400 nuyen this way.
As far as contacts...a fixer, an ID manufacturer, a Knight Errant/Lonestar Dispatcher (whichever has majority contracts in your sprawl), and a talismonger
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here you go
before we get started ignore those fools telling you to swap out pistols for automatics.
as a face you must be chill and low key
hence pistol, a mono whip in your fingertip compartment and hard-to-detect bioware.
this elf bio adept face is focussed on impersonation and social engineering.
This is enabled by Tailored Pheromones 3, Auth. Tone 2, melanin, keratin and face control, Voice Control and Commanding Voice.
Dodge pool of 12 goes to 20 with Agile Defender.
Initiative gives him 2 actions with a chance to hit 3 actions occasionally.
He can pick up new languages just by listening to them for a few hours....
He grows very quickly post chargen due to JoAT and his lower level skills.
Pity his edge is only 1...
all key dicepools at 12 or higher...
12 dice with his monofilament whip weapon focus!!!
Commanding Voice 12! (most folks will drop their weapons as soon as he tells them)
sneaking (urban) 13
impersonation: 15 (17 with time to use disguise)
15 dice with his Savalette pistol which can shoot 6 rounds bursts as a complex action
con (fast talking): 19
leadership: 17 (and small unit tactics of 8 to synergize)
bargaining: 17
Cybered Elf Face
METATYPE: ELF
B 2, A 6/8, R 5/6, S 3, W 3, L 3, I 5, C 8, ESS 5.1, EDG 1, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 10
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 13
Physical Initiative: 10/11+2D6
Active Skills: Con (Fast Talking +2) 2, Disguise 1, Etiquette 1, Exotic Melee Weapon: Monofilament Whip 2 (3), Gymnastics 1, Impersonation 2, Leadership 4, Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 2, Perception 1, Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 3, Sneaking (Urban +2) 3
Knowledge Skills: small unit tactics (Urban +2) 6, Street knowledge: Seattle 1
Languages: English N, Japanese 4, Sperethiel 4
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Adept, Agile Defender, Biocompatibility (Bioware), Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Mentor Spirit: Raven, Prototype Transhuman: Wanted, SINner (Corporate SIN): Renraku, Wanted
Adept Powers: Authoritative Tone (2), Combat Sense (1), Commanding Voice (12dicepool vs. Willpower + Intuition), Facial Sculpt (4 hours) (1) (6dicepool), Keratin Control, Linguistics (8dicepool (Varies)), Melanin Control (5h), Traceless Walk, Voice Control (1) (14dicepool[5] vs. Voice rec. x 2 or PER + INT)
Augmentations:
Fingertip Compartment
Muscle Toner (Used) (2)
Reflex Recorder (Used): Exotic Melee Weapon
Smartlink (Used)
Synaptic Booster (Prototype) (1) w/ Prototype Transhuman
Tailored Pheromones (Prototype) (3) w/ Prototype Transhuman
Gear:
Armor Jacket
Ballistic Mask (Customized)
Concealable Holster
Contacts (3) w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Vision Enhancement (1)
Cram
Ear buds (3) w/ Audio Enhancement (2), Select Sound Filter (1)
Matrix Systems GridGopher
Micro-Tranceiver
Novacoke
Plastic Restraints x10
Tool Kit, Disguise
Weapons:
Savalette Guardian [Heavy Pistol, Acc 8, DV 8P, AP -5, SA/BF, RC 4, 12 (c)] w/ (50x) APDS, Flashlight, Low-Light, Gas-Vent System (3), Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Internal
Monofilament Whip Weapon Focus (1) [Exotic Melee Weapon, Reach 2, Acc 7, DV 12P, AP -8] w/ Weapon Focus (1)
Starting ¥: 955 + (1D6 × 20)¥
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@adzling
I think you have miscalculated somewhere or it's not a standard runner. What are your priorities? Even with 35 extra karma from negative qualities (corp SIN+wanted) (You are only allowed 25), I cannot reconstruct your adept.
My guessing is Meta D, Attributes A, Skills E, Money B, Magic C.
(In my calculations) Karma must go to raising your Magic (20), positive qualities (25) and binding weapon focus (3) which leaves 2 for skills and money. Not enough for what you have (still in my calculations which of course could be wrong).
Can you post where you spend your karma and prove me wrong please.
When you buy a weapon focus, can you skip buying the "real" weapon? Cheesy way to save the 10000 for a whip in that case.
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@adzling, ad hominem attacks are neither helpful nor polite so you really should refrain from doing so in the future.
And if you only have one firearm skill, the reason automatics shine over pistols is that you can use machinepistols for concealabity, but if you know you need more punch or range than a pistol/machinepistol can give you than whip out the SMG or assault rifle.
If you limit yourself to just a pistol, what do you do when someone w/ a SMG, an assault rifle or a longarm is firing at you from 140+ meters away from you? With an 8 agility and scoring maximum hits, you still don't get close enough to shoot at them for two turns. the third turn you canrun and get a shot off. Assuming of course that the enemy doesn't move away from you as you move toward them- than you don't get to shoot turn 3 either.
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Race b elf(6)
Attributes b 20
Magic d Adept 2
Skills e 18
Resources b 275000
BOD 3
AGI 8(12)
REA 2(3)
STR 4
WIL 3
LOG 1
INT 5
CHA 7
EDG 3
ESS 5.06
MR 5
Qualities
Biocompatability
Bipolar
Creature of Comfort: Middle Lifestyle
Jack of All Trades
Low Light Vision
Mentor Spirit: Dragonslayer
Quick Healer
Restrcted Gear
Signature: Origami Dragon
note:the character only gets 25 Karma but it's actually a total of 27 Karma in Negatives.
Active Skills
Artisan 1 (2 Karma)
Athletics SG 1 (5 Karma)
Automatics 6
Close Combat SG 1 (5 Karma)
Con 6
Etiquette 1 (2 Karma)
Exotic Weapon\Monofilament Whip 1 (2 Karma)
Leadership 1 (2 Karma)
Negotiations 6
Perception 1 (2 Karma)
Stealth SG 1 (5 karma)
Adept Powers
Danger Sense Free
Enhanced Accuracy (Monofiament Whip) Free
Improved Reflexes [1] 1.5
Combat Sense [1] .5
Facial Sculpt [1] .25
Authoritative Tone [3] 1.5
Commanding Voice 1
Linguistics ,25
Augmentations
47000 Genetic Optimization- AGI
153600 Alpha Muscle Toner [4]
3600 Alpha Fingertip Compartment
10000 w/Monofiament Whip
Gear
17750 Sleeping Tiger w/Electrochromatic Modification, Ruthenium Polymer Coating [3],
Non- conductivity [5], Shockweave, Auo-injector
1800 Remington Suppressor w\Sound Suppressor
Internal Smartgun system, Low-light Flashlight, Personalized grip
13000 Fake ID [4} w/
High Level Security*, Adept, Firearm, Carry\Coceal and Bioware Licences
*Fancy lingo for Professional Bodyguard.
Unspent money: 28250
For this character I'd initiate first (masking)
turn the Monofiament Whip into a weapon focus
increase magic to 6 for another pp (improved reflexes [2])
take advantage of JOAT to improve all those 1 skills.
then initiate until it would cost more than it would cost to raise magic to 7
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nope it's all legal.
The Wanted quality provides no karmic benefit, it's one of the downside options for Prototype Transhuman.
No need to spend karma to raise magic.
The whip was purchased and the focus bound with karma.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Priorities are:
Attributes A
Resources B
Metatype C
Magic D
Skills E
@adzling
I think you have miscalculated somewhere or it's not a standard runner. What are your priorities? Even with 35 extra karma from negative qualities (corp SIN+wanted) (You are only allowed 25), I cannot reconstruct your adept.
My guessing is Meta D, Attributes A, Skills E, Money B, Magic C.
(In my calculations) Karma must go to raising your Magic (20), positive qualities (25) and binding weapon focus (3) which leaves 2 for skills and money. Not enough for what you have (still in my calculations which of course could be wrong).
Can you post where you spend your karma and prove me wrong please.
When you buy a weapon focus, can you skip buying the "real" weapon? Cheesy way to save the 10000 for a whip in that case.
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A Face needs to negotiate and talk for the team.
In those instances a concealable weapon is more important than a ranged weapon that will be seen.
Hence pistols over machine pistols/ automatics.
+ your a face as your primary role, not a shooter.
That's what the sam and combat adepts are for.
I just think it's a mistake for a face who should be relying on subterfuge and con, which this guy is built for.
Would be daft in that instance to ruin it with someone spotting your hard to conceal Machine pistol that has less punch than your Pistol.
However if you prefer to go shooty you could adjust the skills distribution here to fill that role with a few minor tweaks to this build.
YMMV
@adzling, ad hominem attacks are neither helpful nor polite so you really should refrain from doing so in the future.
And if you only have one firearm skill, the reason automatics shine over pistols is that you can use machinepistols for concealabity, but if you know you need more punch or range than a pistol/machinepistol can give you than whip out the SMG or assault rifle.
If you limit yourself to just a pistol, what do you do when someone w/ a SMG, an assault rifle or a longarm is firing at you from 140+ meters away from you? With an 8 agility and scoring maximum hits, you still don't get close enough to shoot at them for two turns. the third turn you canrun and get a shot off. Assuming of course that the enemy doesn't move away from you as you move toward them- than you don't get to shoot turn 3 either.
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Your Commanding voice is pretty useless at 8 dice.
Turning the whip into a weapon focus in-game will be VERY difficult and costly due to the item resistance.
Better to handle it in chargen where it's ignored if you can.
Magic to 6 will cost you 30 karma and about 4 runs worth of karma, it's a good idea for sure but will take time.
Other than that he looks to be a good combat focussed face.
For this character I'd initiate first (masking)
turn the Monofiament Whip into a weapon focus
increase magic to 6 for another pp (improved reflexes [2])
take advantage of JOAT to improve all those 1 skills.
then initiate until it would cost more than it would cost to raise magic to 7
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Machine-pistols have the same concealabity as heavy pistols (Cocealability Table p420, 5th Edition Core Book) so that Salvalette guardian is no easier to hide than the Remington suppressor.
And does the face stay behind on runs that require weapons that have better range than pistols/machine-pistols?
And w/out masking a weapon foci monowhip means it is gonnna be spotted by mages who assense you a lot of the time- good luke explaning to KE why you are walking around with it hidden in a fingetip compartment.
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oopsy, better add a light pistol to his mix then eh?
haha no he doesn't have to stay behind on runs just like the rest of the party doesn't stay behind when someone has to talk.
it just depends on your playstyle, emphasize subtlety and con (which his powers are built for) then pistols is the way to go for concealability.
Go bang bang over subtlety and automatics is better.
Either is possible I just think considering other people typically fill the bang bang role having another tool in the toolbox is helpful.
YMMV.
Machine-pistols have the same concealabity as heavy pistols (Cocealability Table p420, 5th Edition Core Book) so that Salvalette guardian is no easier to hide than the Remington suppressor.
And does the face stay behind on runs that require weapons that have better range than pistols/machine-pistols?
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BTW, I only included Commanding Voice because it seemed an integral part of Drakir's character... the Commanding Voice is an opposed test, so even if you don't change the character it's 7 CHA +1 Leadership +3 from Authoratative Tone for an 11 (not great but with a judicious us of Edge can work at the right moment). JOAT can get Leadership up
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true all that!
BTW it's not clear if those adept powers add to Commanding Voice.
Herolab doesn't think so and a strict reading of the rules is they would not.
We DO permit it at our table however.
Which would put the build I posted at 14 dice for Commanding Voice!
I think Drakir's got two good options on either end of the spectrum from us.
Your's is more pink mohawk and mine is more black mirrorshades.
Good options to have!
BTW, I only included Commanding Voice because it seemed an integral part of Drakir's character... the Commanding Voice is an opposed test, so even if you don't change the character it's 7 CHA +1 Leadership +3 from Authoratative Tone for an 11 (not great but with a judicious us of Edge can work at the right moment). JOAT can get Leadership up
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Personally, I like your character- a second concealable quick draw holster and a silvergun, I'd be happy.
I am just enamored with the silver gun (call it 'emotional attachment') for it's cool factor rather than any attempt at effectiveness.
Only problem with both build's is the problem w/any awakened...the bulk of your karma goes toward the magic side of the character so like branching out to let's say longarms to add sniping if the crew doesn't already have a sniper is so hard to do...
As far as pink mohawk, in the 80s I went thru the blue-black Mullet, Hoodie under the leather biker jacket with black lacquered pinky nails phase ...
While I was recouping from a major illness, the person handling my bills didn't realize I had a storage space and so the contents got auctioned off: otherwise I'd have a picture to show... though maybe it's best that evidence is destroyed.
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So you're saying people would magically be less nervous if they see a Ruger Warhawk than a Crusader-II, or more worried if they see a Crusader-II instead of a Warhawk? Or that most people give a shit to begin with that others are carrying in the 2070s?
lol ok
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funny Grad ;-)
Whiskey I was saying it's easier to conceal a light pistol than a machine pistol + a light pistol would be viewed less offensively than a machine pistol in higher security / higher social settings.
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I agree with adzling. Technically you cannot hide machine pistols (nor heavy pistols) without e.g. concealment spirit power. They are too easy to spot.
I think that 10 dices in palming pool and -2 to concealability is not enough against e.g. 10 dices in perception pool (e.g. rating 3 lieutenant, quite common enemy). Someone will notice your weapon sooner or later. You need smaller weapon than heavy pistol to do that.
Moreover, pistols offer also more hideable weapons than light pistols (e.g. Shiawaze arms puzzler or streetline special).
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As a Social character, you're most likely wearing a Mortimer of London suit/dress and coat. That gives you a -5 modifier for Concealability right out of the gate. Add in a Concealable Quick-Draw Holster (which you'll want to have) and you have a -6 for Concealability. That baby is not getting seen normally.
Granted, you could do all of that with a holdout or light pistol, but you're still not making much of a difference past the -6.
THAT SAID, I stand by my earlier statement of, "Why do you need a weapon anyway? Just grab Leadership and help everyone be more awesome instead."
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because sometimes drek happens and the other guys aren't in the immediate vicinity.
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because sometimes drek happens and the other guys aren't in the immediate vicinity.
So you talk down or seduce the drek! That's your job!
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...why exactly are people worried about a weapon being seen? Have a good license. If you think the recent laws saying people can carry guns in bars and assault rifles in Target are insane, I guarantee carry laws will be even less restrictive in the 2070s. Everyone's carrying in the Sixth World.
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...why exactly are people worried about a weapon being seen? Have a good license. If you think the recent laws saying people can carry guns in bars and assault rifles in Target are insane, I guarantee carry laws will be even less restrictive in the 2070s. Everyone's carrying in the Sixth World.
Also, if you're that worried about it, get a Large Smuggling Compartment and Powered Breakdown to put an assault rifle in your leg for later use.
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depends how you play at your table but in high security and richer areas that our runners operate in having anything larger than a pistol will draw instant attention from the authorities.
Trying to enter a corporate facility or posh restaurant with same will get you arrested.
But that's because our runners don't spend their time in barrens and hell-holes like Chicago, Redmond and Nairobi.
Our team still has the big guns, they just keep them in the car not on their person for walking around.
...why exactly are people worried about a weapon being seen? Have a good license. If you think the recent laws saying people can carry guns in bars and assault rifles in Target are insane, I guarantee carry laws will be even less restrictive in the 2070s. Everyone's carrying in the Sixth World.
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For example at least in my country, if you want to visit in the parliament as a quest, you have to go through metal detectors. I would assume that this happens also in high security areas in the sixth world. So, we can assume that visible weapons (even hidden weapons) are sometimes a real problem. Pistols offer still options (e.g. shiawaze armament puzzler) even in mad detection environments. But automatics not.
Moreover, if you need to use a guard's weapon (you have not own weapons at all), it is more probably a pistol than an assault rifle. And if I imagine a typical face in his work, pistol skill is more reliable than automatics. But this may depends on your table and campaign => it is not possible to give a general rule which fits in all situations. :)
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And of course using the substituting skills, I'd figure that automatics could be used at -3 DP for burst firing pistols as they're similar to machine pistols and Pistols could be used at a -3 DP for Machine Pistols.