Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Wolfeyes on <12-02-15/0822:29>

Title: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wolfeyes on <12-02-15/0822:29>
I started into the 5th edition core rulebook recently and I'm looking to make an infiltrator with some drone backup. I have a few ideas that I need help getting rounded out.

Here is what I'm going with. He has a rotodrone with two Ares Alphas attached. That means burst fire and grenade launchers. Can even have different rounds in each gun. Regular ammo and frag grenades in one, APDS and smoke grendes in the other. How hard is it to switch out the weapons on a drone? Can he grab one off if he needs a gun? Can he switch guns between missions if he say needs a sniper rifle?

I have not been able to figure out if I should get a RCC. He is not much of a sit in the van type. Instead, I want to use it kind of as a wireless repeater/router to give his drone and car a better firewall and let them share autosofts. Would that actually work?

Aside from the above he has some microdrones and some MCT Flys to do spying.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Jack_Spade on <12-02-15/0834:39>
It's as hard as the GM wants it to be - at least as long as Rigger 5 isn't out with specific rules.

But you'll have problems getting a sniper rifle on. Everything bigger than an assault rifle needs a heavy mount, of which you can only mount one on a standard rotordrone.
You might want to look into a drum fed weapon. Hard Targets has brought back ammo select.

You only need the RCC if you have a lot of identical drones who can share the same autosoft. For firewall usually a good commlink is the better choice.
Also, by fluff a RCC is as large as a briefcase, so you might have trouble carrying that around as an infiltrator. 
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: falar on <12-02-15/0915:53>
Jack_Spade is right on the money.

Rotodrone with a pair of Ares Alphas is pretty much all the firepower you could want, but I think you're better off going with two Rotodrones with an Ares Alpha apiece. Drones are fragile. Conversely, you could get a FB-Bumblebee (from Nothing Personal) which comes with a Stoner-Ares M202 instead, which is the toughest drone known to man and god at this time. If you load it up with APDS rounds, it's doing 10P with AP -7. The thing's a beast - but it costs a cool 24,000nuyen. It's illegal as hell though - but so are aftermarket weapon mounts and Ares Alphas. However, since it comes with a Heavy Weapon Mount for the Stoner-Ares M202, you could swap in a sniper rifle.

RCC is basically - do I have a lot of one type of drone or do I need noise reduction? Then it's useful. Otherwise, like the man said, just go for a high-level commlink and call it good. If you need the noise reduction, get a reciever dongle and attach a vectored signal doodad for 4 noise reduction. I do recommend stacking on drone types - Fly-Spys and Rotodrones are my goto.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wolfeyes on <12-02-15/1053:44>
Thanks for the advice. I only have the core book right now, which is sorely lacking. I'll skip the RCC. I'm almost tempted to skip the control rig. I want it more for driving the car than the drones. Can't trust the dogbrain to pick you up in the middle of a firefight.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: falar on <12-02-15/1138:46>
I'd keep the Control Rig if you want to expand into better Rigger stuff as time goes on. +1 to Vehicle skills, -1 to Vehicle Test thresholds, +1 to Speed/Handling are all great benefits, and that's just Rating 1. Rigger 5.0 will probably be out this month or early next and it will come with a ton of good stuff *fingers crossed*.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <12-02-15/1211:40>
RCCs are great for giving the same command to multiple drones with one action, and sharing softs.

There's little value in jumping into a non sniping drone because drones are fragile. Rigs are great for vehicles though.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Marcus on <12-02-15/1344:29>
Simple rule of the thumb: Guns are Cheap. Drones are not.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Csjarrat on <12-04-15/1359:51>
Cheap rcc is fine if all you're doing is running a small recon drone fleet. Stick toolbox and encryption programs on it and a decent clearsight autosoft and it's all gravy. For running a combat or mixed drone fleet, you'll want something with better ratings
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Poindexter on <12-09-15/0001:08>
I'll often run a starting rigger with no RCC, especially, if he's only got one or two drones/vehicles. For a getaway driver with a roto-drone for backup, you'll be fine with just your comm.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wolfeyes on <12-13-15/2212:13>
Would an RCC let me run more Autosofts on a drone than normal?  I think you can only have 2 at once because of their device rating (rating 2 I think). I can't remember where in the book that is. Any clarity would be appreciated on the issue.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-14-15/0004:05>
The device rating on an RCC is split between noise reduction and running programs.
So a DR2 is 2 programs or 2 Noise reduction or 1 each.

The main benefit of running an autosoft from the RCC vs the drone itself is that the RCC program rating can be higher than the DR of the drone. So a drone with pilot 2 can normally only run Clearsight [2] but if run from the RCC it could be clearsight[6]. The second benefit of the RCC is the drone benefits from all the autosofts running on the RCC that's applicable to that drone.

And my 2 nuyens: stick with the control rig. Use Electronic Warfare in place of Perception since it's a necessary skill for Riggers anyway. Place a Sniper Rifle on the Drone with the camera on the smartgun system modified w/vision magnification (Staying beyond most people's firing range while using Gunnery+LOG+ControlRig Bonus+SnartlinkBonus is the way to use a drone in combat). Last but not least, pop up turret on your van when Rigger 5 comes out.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Csjarrat on <12-14-15/0211:11>
By RAW you can't mount a sniper rifle into a s mall l weapon mount, you'd need the heavy one and it's avail is too high for standard chargen. Assault rifle with vision mag or improved rangefinder is best you can do iirc
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: DigitalZombie on <12-14-15/0534:25>

The main benefit of running an autosoft from the RCC vs the drone itself is that the RCC program rating can be higher than the DR of the drone. So a drone with pilot 2 can normally only run Clearsight [2] but if run from the RCC it could be clearsight[6]. The second benefit of the RCC is the drone benefits from all the autosofts running on the RCC that's applicable to that drone.


Wait, Im pretty sure that a drone can  run any rating of autosoft. So the drone could easily run clearsight 6. But would still benefit from the increased options of the RCC.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-14-15/0631:12>
In 4th every drone that came w/autosofts, the autosoft equaled the sensor so I assumed that the sensor limited the rating of the autosoft. However,that was 4th, and going over the 5th rules it seems that, yes, you can put an autosoft[6] on any drone.

As far as the sniper rifles: yup you need a heavy mount and, yup, a heavy mount is availability above 12. t\That does not mean you can't get one in chargen: restricted gear, or steel lynx, or my personal favorite, the Bumblebee. That machine gun you take off the Bumblebee can go in the van's Pop-up Turret  whenever we get pop-up turrets again.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wolfeyes on <12-14-15/0721:16>
Does the device rating limit the rating of the autosoft? For instance, most have rating of 3, so does that mean I can only run a rating 3 autosoft on them?
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Haywire on <12-14-15/0825:49>
Does the device rating limit the rating of the autosoft? For instance, most have rating of 3, so does that mean I can only run a rating 3 autosoft on them?

Nothing in the CRB says so. You can run autosofts of any rating.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: falar on <12-14-15/0856:11>
Definitely confirmed on that. It's the reason that, post-Data Trails, a drone can run everything it needs to without an RCC. It's a bit more expensive, but it's not impossible, as it was with only the CRB to consider.

Most drones need the following:


On all drones to date, you can only run two autosofts, so you really can't cover all your bases. After Data Trails, you can wire in a program module to be running at all times to get you up to three autosofts (or four if what you wire in is Virtual Machine). This means that, for an investment, you can more or less ignore the Sharing part of an RCC. Not that you would necessarily want to, but it might be helpful as you would want to mod in Sleaze and run Smoke-and-Mirrors and offset your noise with Signal Scrub and native Noise Reduction from the RCC. That means that you can actually effectively Run Silent instead of Running Silent while waving a flag out your pee-goo.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Haywire on <12-14-15/1220:45>
Definitely confirmed on that. It's the reason that, post-Data Trails, a drone can run everything it needs to without an RCC. It's a bit more expensive, but it's not impossible, as it was with only the CRB to consider.

Most drones need the following:

  • [Model] Maneuvering
  • Electronic Warfare
  • [Model] Stealth/[Weapon] Targeting

On all drones to date, you can only run two autosofts, so you really can't cover all your bases. After Data Trails, you can wire in a program module to be running at all times to get you up to three autosofts (or four if what you wire in is Virtual Machine). This means that, for an investment, you can more or less ignore the Sharing part of an RCC. Not that you would necessarily want to, but it might be helpful as you would want to mod in Sleaze and run Smoke-and-Mirrors and offset your noise with Signal Scrub and native Noise Reduction from the RCC. That means that you can actually effectively Run Silent instead of Running Silent while waving a flag out your pee-goo.
Is Clearsight useful or made redundant by EW because are all sensors?
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-14-15/1422:54>
Let me try this one to see how wrong I am

Perception + Intuition [Mental] Test so Clearsight would be Rating of Autosoft + Pilot [Pilot] test

vs EW in place of perception:
Electronic Warfare + INT [Sensor] (it says EW in place of Perception but does not mention changing INT to LOG, anyone know if this should actually be LOG?) so the EW test would translate to EW + Pilot[Sensor]

If your sensor rating is equal to or better than your pilot rating, then yes, Clearsight is redundant.
If your pilot rating is better than your sensor rating, Clearsight could get more hits.

Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: falar on <12-14-15/1445:34>
I believe that's right. I had never considered the limits, but it actually makes a huge difference.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Csjarrat on <12-14-15/1516:09>
also depends on your GM's interpretation of sensor suite upgrades. If you're allowed to install them into the sensors like you could in the older editions (rules seem to suggest you can and chummer etc allow you to do it so thats how i play, i know others differ on the matter) then you can easily boost your sensor limit for certain tests {visual only tests can get the benefits of image enhancement, audio only tests get the bonus of audio enhance etc etc}
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-14-15/1759:19>
also depends on your GM's interpretation of sensor suite upgrades. If you're allowed to install them into the sensors like you could in the older editions (rules seem to suggest you can and chummer etc allow you to do it so thats how i play, i know others differ on the matter) then you can easily boost your sensor limit for certain tests {visual only tests can get the benefits of image enhancement, audio only tests get the bonus of audio enhance etc etc}

Yes, if you can improve the sensor rating that's the way to go and bye-bye to clearsight.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Rooks on <12-15-15/0117:12>
kinda derping here where does it say you can use electronic warfare inplace of clearsight? what about using a RCC Cyberdeck or a commlink is it my intutition+clearsight?
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Haywire on <12-15-15/0128:55>
kinda derping here where does it say you can use electronic warfare inplace of clearsight? what about using a RCC Cyberdeck or a commlink is it my intutition+clearsight?
On the sensor rules p 202 (maybe) says that you can use ew and sensor limit instead of perception and mental limit.
For drones it would be clearsight + pilot or ew + pilot.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-15-15/0343:57>
kinda derping here where does it say you can use electronic warfare inplace of clearsight? what about using a RCC Cyberdeck or a commlink is it my intutition+clearsight?
On the sensor rules p 202 (maybe) says that you can use ew and sensor limit instead of perception and mental limit.
For drones it would be clearsight + pilot or ew + pilot.

You wrote it yourself...On the sensor rules p 202 (maybe) says that you can use ew and sensor limit instead of perception and mental limit. Therefore its Clearsight + Pilot {w/Pilot as Limit]or EW + Pilot [w/Sensor as Limit]. The Pilot replaces any mental stat that the drone doesn't have, it doesn't replace sensor since it has a sensor rating. And the limit is more important to determine whether or not the Clearsight or EW autosoft is better for Perception tests. I mean 9 dice using EW while only having Sensor 1 is inferior to 6 Dice using Clearsight with Pilot 2.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Haywire on <12-15-15/0541:08>
In the CRB I see no vehicle or drone with less Sensor than Pilot, so i figured that was implicit.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-15-15/1159:37>
In the CRB I see no vehicle or drone with less Sensor than Pilot, so i figured that was implicit.
I believe that the CRB is not exhaustive list of drones not vehicle.

Caduceus 7, (pilot 2 sensors 1) Bullets and bandages
In SR4 there were others, and this edition may or may not bring them back.
In any event, Rigger 5 shall be interesting and hopefully not a disappointment.
But I'm not holding my breath.
In any event I expect to see the sky full of microdrones with improved sensors in the near future.

Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Haywire on <12-15-15/1241:01>
It's easy to raise sensor limits through vision or audio enhancement, not so pilot rating. I think EW has an edge on clearsight per actual rules.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-15-15/1345:47>
It's easy to raise sensor limits through vision or audio enhancement, not so pilot rating. I think EW has an edge on clearsight per actual rules.


We're in total agreement on this one.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-15-15/2252:59>
Does the device rating limit the rating of the autosoft? For instance, most have rating of 3, so does that mean I can only run a rating 3 autosoft on them?

This will be made clear in Rigger 5.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Slamm-O! on <12-17-15/1508:07>
With Data Trails, and Chrome Flesh out - what are some optimized Rigger builds ?  Is it possible to make a Rigger / Street Samurai to fill duel roles so you don't just sit in the van and command a horde of robots ?

Control Rig Optimization

Cerebellum Booster

Are the only two I've found that can enhance a Rigger. 
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: ZeldaBravo on <12-17-15/1716:23>
A rigger/sam is basically a samurai with a rig, a car, and some drones. Right now a rigger is a supplementary role like a medic or an investigator, it is quite possible to be an [archetype]/rigger if you have enough money and a few skillpoints. You don't really need any extra rules to be a rigger because a minor investment is enough (and you don't have a lot of options, duh).
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-18-15/0010:12>
Rigger 5 is now hot off the digital presses. This should make this whole line of questioning much more interesting. :)
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: ZeldaBravo on <12-18-15/0048:42>
Thank god it's out! Time to revive my rigger.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Wakshaani on <12-18-15/1223:46>
I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the new Riggers that should start getting threads over the next week. I would have loved to put a few archetypes in this go'round, but, not enough room. Alas, alas.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-18-15/2013:50>
I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the new Riggers that should start getting threads over the next week. I would have loved to put a few archetypes in this go'round, but, not enough room. Alas, alas.

You know other companies throw out free web enhancements.
So a free download with like 6 Rigger/other role archetypes is not gonna kill the company.
And then people without books can see the various things listed (without no rules for them like the other archetype) and maybe get hyped enough to buy the book if they maybe weren't to do so.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Slamm-O! on <12-19-15/0049:54>
Just trying to play around with a Hybrid Rigger / Street Samurai.  No gear has been bought.  Need to think of some more Rigger knowledge skills, and I'm still not happy with the skills.  I'll have to play around with them more. 

A - Resources
B - Skills
C - Attributes
D - Meta
E - Magic

Ripshot (Rigger)
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 3, A 5/7, R 2/3, S 1/3, W 3, L 5/7, I 6/7, C 2, ESS 1.06, EDG 5
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 10
Armor: 0
Limits: Physical 4, Mental 8, Social 3
Physical Initiative: 8/10+2D6
Active Skills: Automatics (Assault Rifles +2) 6, Electronic Warfare (Sensor Operations +2) 6, Gunnery (Ballistic +2) 6, Perception (Visual +2) 4, Pilot Aircraft 5, Pilot Ground Craft 5, Stealth Group 5
Knowledge Skills: Area Knowledge: Chicago 1, Combat Biking 2, Knowledge Skill 4, Knowledge Skill 3, Security Procedures 6, Shadow Community 5
Languages: Cantonese 1, English N
Qualities: Addiction (Mild): BTLs, Allergy, Common (Mild): Nickel, Biocompatibility (Cyberware), Perfect Time, Phobia, Common (Mild): Canis Lupus Familiaris, Prejudiced, Specific (Biased): Cops
Augmentations:
   Cerebellum Booster (1)
   Cerebral Booster (2)
   Control Rig (2)
   Control Rig Optimization
   Muscle Replacement (2)
   Smartlink (Alphaware)
   Synaptic Booster (1)
Contacts:
Destro (Connection 5, Loyalty 1)
Starting ¥: 5,000 + (1D6 × 20)¥

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Shadowrun © 2005-2015 The Topps Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Shadowrun is a registered trademark of The Topps Company, Inc.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Slamm-O! on <12-19-15/1156:19>
What's stopping you from posting them here ? 

I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the new Riggers that should start getting threads over the next week. I would have loved to put a few archetypes in this go'round, but, not enough room. Alas, alas.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Slamm-O! on <12-19-15/1201:17>
Random rules question: 

I buy a Yamaha Kaburaya, and get it modded so I can rig it. 

How does that work ?  Would I be using my Reaction + Ground Craft (Remote Operation) , or Ground Craft + Logic (or Intuition) to pilot the bike ?

Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Rooks on <12-19-15/1228:53>
Reaction
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: falar on <12-19-15/2004:57>
Reaction
Check with your GM though for his interpretation. Although this is the most common ruling, there are some people who use Intuition. Most notably, /r/RunnerHub and one of the other Reddit communities like it.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: gradivus on <12-19-15/2227:59>
Reaction
Check with your GM though for his interpretation. Although this is the most common ruling, there are some people who use Intuition. Most notably, /r/RunnerHub and one of the other Reddit communities like it.

My 2 nuyen:
You're in VR, the meatbody isn't applicable, so intuition.

Having had my say, if the GM says 'reaction', reaction it is.
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Rooks on <12-19-15/2357:53>
Well. its like do you roll agi when firing a gun remotely? or logic
Title: Re: Drone questions for the new rigger on the streets
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <12-20-15/0112:27>
In my game we house ruled that to be intuition, but that was before it was clarified here on the forums to be logic.