Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Hobbes on <12-06-15/1417:56>
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At .25 PP per dice the Attribute boost power is a very cheap dice pool boost for Adepts. Normally Adepts that take this power are simply tacking on Agility Boost - 2 because that is what the Math says to do. So fiddling with the Math a bit by taking Exceptional Attribute to bump Magic to 7 and taking 3 Ranks in Ability Boost gets you to 10 dice on the Boost roll, so +3 happens a little more than half the time.
Building for Drain also makes the Adrenaline boost power more appealing, so we're going to add that in. Adrenaline Boost stacks, so we'll be packing drugs. And hey, Body/Will are the Addiction resistance test so we'll be looking at what other Pharmaceuticals we can layer in.
Concept works best with a Pistol Adepts. Melee Adepts will almost certainly want Rapid Draw.
I went with Oni for Meta, but flipping Metahuman and Skills Priority gets you a Human with Skills B, and only costs a couple stat points. In any case, Dwarf or Orks are well suited for this kind of Adept. It's one of the few times you can make a mechanical argument that a Metahuman is a better choice than human. Not a strong argument, but still.
Example build:
== Info ==
Movement: 14/28
Karma: 4
Ork (Oni)
Composure: 10
Judge Intentions: 10
Lift/Carry: 9 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 250
== Priorities ==
Metatype: B - Oni
Attributes: A - 24 Attributes
Special: C - Adept
Skills: D - 22 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: E - 6,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 7
AGI: 7
REA: 5
STR: 2
CHA: 5
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
MAG: 7
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 10 + 1d6
Rigger Initiative: 10 + 1d6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 10 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 12
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 6
Mental: 4
Social: 7
Custom Ballistic Mask [+2] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral: 7
==Contacts==
15 of 15
== Active Skills ==
Etiquette : 3 [legwork] Pool: 8 (10)
Gymnastics : 1 Pool: 8
Locksmith : 1 Pool: 8
Palming : 1 Pool: 8
Perception : 6 Pool: 13
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 6
Pistols : 6 [Revolvers] Pool: 16 (18)
Sneaking : 6 [Urban] Pool: 13 (15)
== Knowledge Skills ==
12 of 12
== Qualities ==
Adept
Allergy (Common, Mild) (Pollutants)
Exceptional Attribute (MAG)
Fangs
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Eagle)
Perfect Time
Striking Skin Pigmentation
25 points of negative qualities
== Powers ==
Adrenaline Boost Rating: 4
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 3
Attribute Boost (REA) Rating: 3
Combat Sense Rating: 7
Improved Ability (skill) (Pistols) Rating: 3
== Lifestyles ==
Street Life - Woke up in Coffin Motel 1 months
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
+Attachable Gear Access
Custom Ballistic Mask 2
+Camera Rating 1
+Thermographic Vision
+Gas Mask
+Single Sensor Rating 3
+Ultrasound Rating 2
== Weapons ==
Ruger Super Warhawk
+Ammo Skip
+Concealable Holster
+Long Barrel
+Smartgun System, External
+Speed Loader
+Trigger Removal
Pool: 16 (18) Accuracy: 9 DV: 9P AP: -2 RC: 2
== Commlink ==
Meta Link (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 1)
== Gear ==
Ammo: Explosive Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x20
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Heavy Pistols) x10
Contacts Rating 3
+Flare Compensation
+Image Link
+Smartlink
Pharma Grade Cram x2
Fake SIN (Pat) Rating 3
+Fake License (Driver's License) Rating 3
+Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 3
+Fake License (Adept License) Rating 3
Gecko Tape Gloves
Medkit Rating 3
Pharma grade Psyche x1
Survival Kit
Tool Kit (Locksmith)
Trodes
== Vehicles ==
Yamaha Growler (Off-Road Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
So 12 dice to resist Drain means the 3 Drain from the Attribute boosts is a fairly easy drain to soak. Even the 4 DV from Adrenaline boost is a 50/50 chance of no drain. And if the GM lets you use just what you need on Adrenaline Boost instead of always all 4 levels you can really manage drain easily.
Pharma Grade Cram and Psyche puts Intuition and Reaction to 6, so initiative becomes 12 +2d6, with another +8 when Adrenaline Boosting. Two Actions guaranteed, three when Boosting, potentially 4 with a 11 or 12 on 2d6. So three whenever you want.
Defense tests also get pretty impressive, Reaction and Intuition 6, Combat Sense 7 is 19 Dice plus up to 3 more from Reaction Boost. Up to 22 Dice on defensive tests without any active defense. Potentially 27 if on full defense.
As expected with a Pistol Adept, shooting, spotting, sneaking all solid.
Background Count really messes with this build. A two point BGC reduces the Boost test to 8 dice so you're normally only getting a +2 essentially a wash unless it's for Shooting or Defense tests where there are already bonuses.
Overall I think the Boost Adept is a solid concept, but there are simpler ways to get similar dice pools, but its certainly a viable play style choice. Makes a bit more use of Exceptional Magic Attribute other than +1 PP, and of course Perfect time with all the Free Action boosts.
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I'd try to squeeze in the Rapid Draw power for this guy.
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It's interesting . But I'm concerned action economy, it's a complex to boost isn't it?
I'd also look at taking a spell if your going down this rout.
I assume exception Attribute magic gives you 7 pp?
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It's interesting . But I'm concerned action economy, it's a complex to boost isn't it?
ATT Boost is a Simple.
I assume exception Attribute magic gives you 7 pp?
If you boost MAG from 6 to 7, you'd get a 7th PP yeah.
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I'd try to squeeze in the Rapid Draw power for this guy.
You can Quick draw pistols without a power. For a melee build, maybe, but with gear access and perfect time you can pull a knife (or whatever), and activate Agility boost for your two free actions and still have a complex left for stabby stabby.
Adrenaline boost doesn't need to be activated in the first pass, you get the same result. Getting all three boosts going (Agility, Adrenaline, Reaction) is always going to take a bit of juggling.
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Just a thought,
Power foci works on attribute boost and any other adept power requiring you to roll magic. By dropping skills to e and bumping resources to d ( and spending karma to pay for the 1 point skills you could afford it.
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Cool concept. Just a note: pharmaceutical grade cram has a addiction threshold of 2 I think. Cram is psychologically addicting, so addiction is resisted with logic and willpower, not body and willpower. If you ever had to roll the full threshold, the character has a fair shot of not hitting it. Maybe look into other physically focused drugs that can give initiative boosts?
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Cool build. I have thought sometimes the combination of perfect time and nimble fingers. Nimble fingers change some simple actions to free and with perfect time you have two free actions. Moreover, nimble fingers is very cheap (0.25 pp). What do you think?
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Boosting being simple helps a lot, perhaps reducing down to 2 boosts, and swap back to Imp Reflexes?
I think that would address most of the issues.
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Kick adept to B and lower skills to E you'll get higher edge.
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Kick adept to B and lower skills to E you'll get higher edge.
Agreed. The 2 Edge is definitely worth the loss of 2 skill points.
You can Quick draw pistols without a power. For a melee build, maybe, but with gear access and perfect time you can pull a knife (or whatever), and activate Agility boost for your two free actions and still have a complex left for stabby stabby.
Adrenaline boost doesn't need to be activated in the first pass, you get the same result. Getting all three boosts going (Agility, Adrenaline, Reaction) is always going to take a bit of juggling.
How are you activating your Agility Boosts as a Free Action?
Body Boost will get you extra dice on your Adrenaline Boost drain resistance test, as well as other damage resistance tests. Just a thought,
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Pretty solid, but, yeah, even a small Background Count will throw you off.
I sometimes wonder about the applicability of an Offset Background Count focus with an availability of [Forcex6]R and a cost of [Forcex20,000] nuyen. Would it be overpowered as all get out or would it be a fairly legitimate nuyen sink for magical characters?
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Pretty solid, but, yeah, even a small Background Count will throw you off.
I sometimes wonder about the applicability of an Offset Background Count focus with an availability of [Forcex6]R and a cost of [Forcex20,000] nuyen. Would it be overpowered as all get out or would it be a fairly legitimate nuyen sink for magical characters?
High Risk High reward, Looks legit to me, you gotta spend a lot to make that useable, and it comes with risk, and an action cost.
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Kick adept to B and lower skills to E you'll get higher edge.
If you're using a Sumto10 there are certainly more optimal arrangements. For theory crafting I stick with Priority builds. Moving to Human or Elf would also bump up edge at a cost of Drain dice.
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How are you activating your Agility Boosts as a Free Action?
Body Boost will get you extra dice on your Adrenaline Boost drain resistance test, as well as other damage resistance tests. Just a thought,
derp. Adrenaline boosts are the Free action, Attribute Boosts are the Simple. So for a Pistol Adept you can still Free Action Adrenaline Boost, Free Action draw pistol (with Gear Access), Simple Action Agility Boost, Simple Action bang-bang. Melee builds are going to lose an attack if they can't pre-boost out of combat. Same issue that the Elemental damage powers have. So probably not optimal for melee, just like the Elemental Melee damage powers : ) I'll update the OP.
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Kick adept to B and lower skills to E you'll get higher edge.
If you're using a Sumto10 there are certainly more optimal arrangements. For theory crafting I stick with Priority builds. Moving to Human or Elf would also bump up edge at a cost of Drain dice.
Personally I think an ogre would work better than an Oni. You lose 1 agility but gain 1 body and 1 will. I would also drop charisma from 5 to 2 and move those points to logic for character delevopment in qi foci.
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How are you activating your Agility Boosts as a Free Action?
Body Boost will get you extra dice on your Adrenaline Boost drain resistance test, as well as other damage resistance tests. Just a thought,
derp. Adrenaline boosts are the Free action, Attribute Boosts are the Simple. So for a Pistol Adept you can still Free Action Adrenaline Boost, Free Action draw pistol (with Gear Access), Simple Action Agility Boost, Simple Action bang-bang. Melee builds are going to lose an attack if they can't pre-boost out of combat. Same issue that the Elemental damage powers have. So probably not optimal for melee, just like the Elemental Melee damage powers : ) I'll update the OP.
You can do it, it just takes a little more investment. If you get the Rapid Draw adept power, you can do this:
Free Action Adrenaline Boost, Simple Action Agility Boost, Free (Simple) Action to Quick Draw melee weapon (Quick Draw -> Attack!)
With Perfect Time, you could even do:
Free Action Adrenaline Boost, Simple Action Agility Boost, Free Action to Quick Draw melee Weapon, Simple Action Reaction Boost.
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Just a thought,
Power foci works on attribute boost and any other adept power requiring you to roll magic. By dropping skills to e and bumping resources to d ( and spending karma to pay for the 1 point skills you could afford it.
Power Foci only boosts two powers that cost .25 PP each. Would help to overcome BGC penalty, but I think if you've juggled priories to free up a Foci Budget Qi Foci are going to be the better value. Probably anyway. Didn't want to do Skills E. Human? A Stats, B Magic, C Skills, D Resources, E Metatype?
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Cool build. I have thought sometimes the combination of perfect time and nimble fingers. Nimble fingers change some simple actions to free and with perfect time you have two free actions. Moreover, nimble fingers is very cheap (0.25 pp). What do you think?
Nimble Fingers and Gear Access almost completely overlap so you don't pick up much with Nimble Fingers unless your GM lets your Nimble Fingers Free Actions be quicker than free. If you're not picking up Gear Access from your Armor Nimble Fingers becomes a good value.
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You can do it, it just takes a little more investment. If you get the Rapid Draw adept power, you can do this:
Free Action Adrenaline Boost, Simple Action Agility Boost, Free (Simple) Action to Quick Draw melee weapon (Quick Draw -> Attack!)
With Perfect Time, you could even do:
Free Action Adrenaline Boost, Simple Action Agility Boost, Free Action to Quick Draw melee Weapon, Simple Action Reaction Boost.
Yep, OP updated to recommend Rapid Draw for Melee Builds.
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Yep, OP updated to recommend Rapid Draw for Melee Builds.
Love it! But I think Attribute Boost is a pretty nice power for Agility and Reaction.
I do think all Adept Powers should be reduced to a Free Action to activate and some of them should be able to be combined. I feel like Attribute Boost should be able to combined with the other Attribute Boosts.
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Just a thought,
Power foci works on attribute boost and any other adept power requiring you to roll magic. By dropping skills to e and bumping resources to d ( and spending karma to pay for the 1 point skills you could afford it.
Power Foci only boosts two powers that cost .25 PP each. Would help to overcome BGC penalty, but I think if you've juggled priories to free up a Foci Budget Qi Foci are going to be the better value. Probably anyway. Didn't want to do Skills E. Human? A Stats, B Magic, C Skills, D Resources, E Metatype?
It's a proof of concept build. If you went with a force 2 power foci you save 1 pp and can add that bonus to other adept powers if taken. You could also cheaply add more attribute boosts. Both ways have pros and cons but are both viable
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Meleeists will have Rapid Draw and Iaijutsu. :) Action separate form movement, Simple boost, simple Elemental Weapon, free attack.
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I do think all Adept Powers should be reduced to a Free Action to activate and some of them should be able to be combined. I feel like Attribute Boost should be able to combined with the other Attribute Boosts.
??? Nope. Builds that start stacking lots of free actions become a problem at the table very quickly. Keep in mind that your gonna need to make two rolls for each of those boosts, and it will drag things down very quickly.
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Attribute Boosts lasts two turns per hit, unless you're re-rolling the boosts you should really only need to roll one each per combat.
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Attribute Boosts lasts two turns per hit, unless you're re-rolling the boosts you should really only need to roll one each per combat.
Roll to activate, then a roll for drain, 2 rolls per activated boosts, and so long as they are simple to put up and lasts more then two turns, then I don't see a problem problem. But if as Falar suggested and they all went up at once as a free action, then folks would be tempted to re-roll for better results. Doing that would begin to drag on very quickly, as you start getting a ballooning number of rolls.
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But if as Falar suggested and they all went up at once as a free action, then folks would be tempted to re-roll for better results. Doing that would begin to drag on very quickly, as you start getting a ballooning number of rolls.
I'd rule that you can't activate an already active power, and I can't see anything about deactivating this power early. So no rerolls other than if time runs out!
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I was thinking that if you activated multiple Attribute Boosts at once, you'd need to soak the sum of their drain. So if you activate Attribute Boost: Reaction II and Attribute Boost: Agility II at the same time, you need to soak 4 drain.
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Yeah, if you activate the power multiple times you're soaking multiple drains. And the Boost checks shouldn't be a noticeable time sink, there is only one modifier, Back Ground Count. Roll your 8 to 10 dice, count, move on.
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It may be too much to cram in the same concept, or your exercise is done but did you think about the pain resistance adept power ?
If you would buy it at level 3 (1.5 PP). It would ensure that your only take -1 from stun and physical track, either that or unconscious, bleeding out.
I thought about it, because I think its a cool power that hardly anybody takes (I don't ever see it in net builds anyway) and it may serve a purpose for a boost adept, at least one that cranks adrenaline boost al the way up to 7 and higher....
Cheers
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Better off taking the Bioware equivalent. Either up take the point of Magic hit and throw in a point of Augments or go Transhuman Prototype. The Positive Quality and the Adept Power are really over priced compared to the Bioware.
Trauma Damper and a few levels of Damage Compensators (stun) mean you're "fine" until you're face down. Kinda lulzy.