Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: drakir on <12-17-15/0550:43>
-
Played with Chummer and came up with this mage I haven't thought possible before. This mage can really throw a lot of dice. Initiative is okay even before Increase Reflexes.
The karma was not enough to bond the sustaining focus (2 karma left and needs 8 so maybe after the first run. When bonded used for primarily Increased Reflexes). The money on the other hand was enough to buy a really nice car ;D
Already playing with another character and not planning to use this so haven't thought about backstory, only the crunch.
Any comments and or suggestions ? What spells should it be? Negative qualities? Is the money well spent? Give him/her a story? Knowledge skills? Should the 2 karma go to JoaT?
Priorities: Meta: D, Attributes: B, Magic: A, Skills: E, Resources: C (Standard priority)
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 4, Rea 5, Str 1, Cha 3, Int 6, Log 2 (karma), Wil 5, Edge 4, Magic 7, Init 11+1D6
Qualities: Excep Attr Magic, 25 points negatives not yet decided.
Skills:
16(18) Spellcasting 6+2 (Combat)
16(18) Summoning 6+2 (Spirits of Man)
16(18) Binding 6+2 (Spirits of Man)
7 Assensing 1 (karma)
12 Counterspelling 5
7(9) Perception 1+2 (Visual)
4 Etiquette 1 (karma)
5 Sneaking (karma) (Hopefully enough with help from Spirit)
Spells: Stunbolt, Heal, Inc Reflexes, +7 more
Gear: Power Focus rating 3 (bonded), Sustaining Focus (Healing) rating 4 (Not Bonded), Lodge rating 6, Fake SIN rat 4, Medium lifestyle, Vashon Island Sleeping Tiger Armor, Transys Avalon commlink, Hyundai Shin-Hyung Sports Car.
Karma spent: 10 Logic, 14 pos qualities, 6 skills, 18 Focus bonding, 2 left.
The big reason I choose magic 7 is otherwise there would be problems with focus addiction. And it's really nice to be able to summon F7 Spirits without physical drain...
-
You can kick higher if you like:
Mage: max out on negative qualities gives you 50 karma.
F6 power focus =36 karma + Restricted gear 10 karma
So you can do magic (6) + power(6) + skill (6) + spec (2) 20 dice for your fave skill.
Or the coolest part for me, 1 point skill gives 13 dice already, so it is really easy to branch into other magical domains.
(Rituals, alchemy and so on).
-
The only problem with 20DP for spellcasting is your about 7 hits avg which means you'll get 8 quite a bit and that is physical drain territory. Of course if you have the drain pool to handle it, then that's not really a problem.
-
I hope your an intuition tradition because if your not then you will never soak high force spells.
It's not worth it to have an unbound sustaining foci at chargen, karma is what your always going to be hurting in, not money. I would either bind it or drop it.
If you want to sneak I recommend getting increase attribute agility. You can sustain it in the same foci as normally increase reflexes would. This would put you up to 8 agility making you a decent sneaker ( be aware Astrally you will be a Christmas light)
Don't forget a mentor spirit.
-
Going for combat spell specialty is kind of a waste.
-
@Gilga
Yes but as Gradivus said, the last few dice are nearly useless. 18 dice, 7 magic is IMO a lot better than 20D,6 Magic. And you want that sustaining focus, otherwise you are down to fewer dice anyway.
The other part (13D with skill 1) I like better. Will maybe tinker with that idea. Pity you don't have any karma left for anything else. With the build above I did not get a Mentor spirit which I think every Magic character should have, and with the Focus rating 6 build there's even less karma to play around with.
@bdyer
Yes, i was thinking Int tradition. Chaos for example. You may be right about an unbound Focus. When I started the build I wanted a rating 3 Power focus and with C resources had a lot of money left over. Would've love to afford a mentor spirit, but the karma is not there unless I skip all the karma skills. Is that worth it?
@Whiskeyjack
Stunbolt (and the rest of direct combat spells) can always use the extra dice. Damage is only net successes. In 4th edition, a mage could put someone to sleep with a single stunbolt. In 5th that is not happening anymore in my experience. Being able to hit a dodging adept with a lightning bolt is also nice. Where would you put the point instead? Other specialty or different skill altogether?
-
I am solidly in the "sustained debuffs are the best spells this edition" camp.
Not saying you shouldn't throw reagent-enhanced Witness My Hate Stunbolts or Spell Shaped Ball Lightnings as needed. But making people suck something like -7 to all dice pools from Chaotic World where they can't leave the AoE due to covering fire on them...or make them drop their guns or take a penalty to use them with Hot Potato..that's amazing. And it's one Drain resist versus one or more per pass if you're focused on blasts.
-
Not saying you shouldn't throw reagent-enhanced Witness My Hate Stunbolts or Spell Shaped Ball Lightnings as needed. But making people suck something like -7 to all dice pools from Chaotic World where they can't leave the AoE due to covering fire on them...or make them drop their guns or take a penalty to use them with Hot Potato..that's amazing. And it's one Drain resist versus one or more per pass if you're focused on blasts.
Or Opium Den. If you can get 7 hits on that, most enemies are just going to drop into a pleasure-coma because you'll have more hits than their Willpower. Except for maybe the opposing Mage and he's still taking a hefty dice pool penalty and EVERYONE CAN JUST WHALE ON HIM.
-
I really should take Opium Den.
-
I really should take Opium Den.
Add the Curse ritual and get material links from random people. Put them in a roulette wheel.
EVERY DAY, SOMEONE'S GETTING LUCKY!
EDITED TO ADD: Combine with Greater Ritual and Magic 7 for Effective Force 14 jolts of pure pleasure.
-
Stunbolt (and the rest of direct combat spells) can always use the extra dice. Damage is only net successes. In 4th edition, a mage could put someone to sleep with a single stunbolt. In 5th that is not happening anymore in my experience.
You're definitely right there. Direct spells are pretty much worthless nowadays. The only real issue with them before was that they only got one thing added to resistance against them, so adding a second attribute (like say Logic or Intuition) to the resistance is all that it would have taken to 'bring them in line'.
Mage: max out on negative qualities gives you 50 karma.
F6 power focus =36 karma + Restricted gear 10 karma
You aren't getting the 7 Magic with that under Priority due to the cost of Exceptional Attribute.
-
Mage: max out on negative qualities gives you 50 karma.
F6 power focus =36 karma + Restricted gear 10 karma
You aren't getting the 7 Magic with that under Priority due to the cost of Exceptional Attribute.
Exceptional Attribute = 14, Restricted Gear = 10 karma. 14+10=24?
-
Mage: max out on negative qualities gives you 50 karma.
F6 power focus =36 karma + Restricted gear 10 karma
You aren't getting the 7 Magic with that under Priority due to the cost of Exceptional Attribute.
Exceptional Attribute = 14, Restricted Gear = 10 karma. 14+10=24?
Bonding the Power Focus prevents having enough karma to get Exceptional Attribute.
Look at the section I emphasized in what I quoted. That leaves 4 karma after paying for those two things (10 short of enough for Exceptional Attribute).
-
Bonding the Power Focus prevents having enough karma to get Exceptional Attribute.
Look at the section I emphasized in what I quoted. That leaves 4 karma after paying for those two things (10 short of enough for Exceptional Attribute).
Oh, right! Got it! Then it's just a matter of which is more important - Magic 7 or Power Focus 6, since. You'd have to go for a max of Power Focus 4 to get Magic 7. At that point, it's a choice of how many hits you want to be able to get.
-
If you truly want to be a combat spell slinging killing machine, here is what I'd do
change resources to D and meta to c.
Max edge with the points
Drop exceptional attribute
Grab the following qualities:
Witness my hate
Revels in murder
Mentor spirit ( combat spells)
Oh and change stunbolt to manabolt
Basically throw a witness my hate direct spells at f3 throwing edge into it at the beginning allowing you to break the limit. If the guy dies you get your edge back.
Direct: Total dice pool is 19+7 edge rerolling 6's averaging about 10 hits+2 for witness my hate.
Indirect average of 10 hits for dodged (f) damage resisted
Should be easily to kill anything living. Spirits will be harder as they don't qualify for revels in murder.
-
Bonding the Power Focus prevents having enough karma to get Exceptional Attribute.
Look at the section I emphasized in what I quoted. That leaves 4 karma after paying for those two things (10 short of enough for Exceptional Attribute).
Oh, right! Got it! Then it's just a matter of which is more important - Magic 7 or Power Focus 6, since. You'd have to go for a max of Power Focus 4 to get Magic 7. At that point, it's a choice of how many hits you want to be able to get.
Well, if you're going Restricted Gear on the Power Focus, you might as well go for the Force 6 one since that's the highest you can get with the quality.
Now, all that said, in Karma Generation if you wanted to seriously over-specialize, you might be able to pull off having both, but that would be at the expense of being able to do pretty much anything else most likely.
-
Now, all that said, in Karma Generation if you wanted to seriously over-specialize, you might be able to pull off having both, but that would be at the expense of being able to do pretty much anything else most likely.
Base of 13 dice on all Magic-Linked skills for ... 250 karma? That's just over a quarter of your karma. You'd be strapped for some other stuff, but you wouldn't be flat useless outside of magic, especially since you'd probably raise only one of those skills to a six+Spec.
-
Yeah I was going to say, get a 6 and grow it if it's that important.
-
You can kick higher if you like:
Mage: max out on negative qualities gives you 50 karma.
F6 power focus =36 karma + Restricted gear 10 karma
So you can do magic (6) + power(6) + skill (6) + spec (2) 20 dice for your fave skill.
Or the coolest part for me, 1 point skill gives 13 dice already, so it is really easy to branch into other magical domains.
(Rituals, alchemy and so on).
A drawback here is that you can't start with a way to sustain spells without penalty with this build. No karma for Focused Concentration or for additional foci. So depending on what you are running, you are giving back 2 to 4 of those dice right away. It also requires resouces C which limits options for Meta and pushes skills down to D or E. In a long campaign it may all be worth it, it might be very hard to get that kind of focus during play, but you will have some significant initial trade offs for it.
-
A drawback here is that you can't start with a way to sustain spells without penalty with this build. No karma for Focused Concentration or for additional foci. So depending on what you are running, you are giving back 2 to 4 of those dice right away. It also requires resouces C which limits options for Meta and pushes skills down to D or E. In a long campaign it may all be worth it, it might be very hard to get that kind of focus during play, but you will have some significant initial trade offs for it.
You can - you just need to use rules other than Priority/Sum-to-Ten. Both Point-Buy and Life Modules would allow you to have more foci easy peasy.
-
I hope your an intuition tradition because if your not then you will never soak high force spells.
It's not worth it to have an unbound sustaining foci at chargen, karma is what your always going to be hurting in, not money. I would either bind it or drop it.
If you want to sneak I recommend getting increase attribute agility. You can sustain it in the same foci as normally increase reflexes would. This would put you up to 8 agility making you a decent sneaker ( be aware Astrally you will be a Christmas light)
Don't forget a mentor spirit.
Why is that? the only intuition tradition can soak high drain spells part?
-
Because of the 3 possible Drain stats, the OP's character only has a worthwhile rating in INT.
-
The problem with the high drain (for example 4 or even 5) is that sometimes even very high drain pools fails, if you don't have edge, or do not want to use it. Which means very high stun damages. For example for drain 5 and 19 dices, the probability to get at least two stun boxes is 7.9%.
Can you use run for your life to avoid opium den (no covering fire)?
-
I need to review Opium Den but my initial reaction is that it's a spell that can easily be tweaked to hell with reagents.
-
You are correct. The big thing is the radius of the effect. You can easily cast it at a Force 4 if that will get all your dudes and use reagents to set your limit at what-have-you.
Also, consider a Fetish for it. :D
-
I compared combat and illusion area spells. Essential differences are:
1. You need to sustain area illusion spells
2. Indirect combat area spells need high force.
3. It is possible to use illusion spells with reagents, radius is small.
4. Area combat spells give synergies to stun bolt and clout.
If you do it right the effect is almost the same for both strategies.
Combat spells:
Spellcasting 6
Charisma 8
Willpower 5 (+4)
Magic 7
Power focus 4
Compat spell specialization 2
Mentor spirit 2
Centering 2
Sustaining focus 5 (health)
Force 7 fetish ball lightning
Total: 21 dices: On average damage is 11P with -7AP. Additional electricity damage.
Drain: 4, dicepool 19
Damage against elite soldier (19 dices): 7P. => -3 to actions with electricity penalty, -5 to initiative
Opium den:
Spellcasting 6
Charisma 8
Willpower 5
Magic 7
Power focus 4
Illusion spell specialization 2
Mentor spirit 2
Centering 2
Sustaining focus 5 (illusion)
Force 5 fetish opium den
Total: 21 dices: On average 7 hits.
Drain: 2, dicepool 15
Effect against elite soldier (10 dices): -4 to all actions.
If you cannot avoid area illusion spells by using run for your life, they are better. Otherwise quite similar.
Counterspelling is more powerful against illusion spells.