Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Herr Brackhaus on <01-01-16/1736:49>
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Do we have any more information on what Project Monad, mentioned in the 4th Edition book Emergence, was?
I did some searches on here with almost no results, and seeing as how some of the CFD headcases have come to call themselves Monads I have to wonder if there's a link somehow.
Anyone?
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There isn't a link, or at least none that I know of. Some of the research related to Project Monad was the target of an internal squabble between Nigel Coltrane and Ichiro Kiyomoto (both of Shiawase/MFID fame) in an effort to curry Hitomi's favor at the expense of MCT. Now that ManaDyne is owned by NeoNET, it's up in the air what, if anything, will be done with the research.
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There is not much.
4th ed Runner's Companion pg 128 has them as possible contacts.
They continue to research a means of introducing a hitcher jack to allow others to tag along on a dip into the Resonance, though no known successes to date.
In the meantime, they are concentrating on figuring out the physiological interactions tied in with a technomancer’s biological transmitter as the first step to know what to plug the cyberware into.
Since the research is focused mostly on technomancers, not sure what link there might have been with the entities calling themselves Monads, unless a TM mind was the basis for one maybe.
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Thanks, Kincaid, Sendaz. Maybe it's just down to philosophy, then, and a massive coincidence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(philosophy)
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At risk of muddying the water further, there is mention of a "monad cat" in Rigger 5.0, on p. 115.
No details are given as to what it is, or why it was being snatched, other than being a feline reputed to be fast, and it living up to that reputation.
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I figured the Monad cat was a CFD critter, in all honesty.
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Yeah i assumed CFD infection for the monad cat, but also a setup for the 'schrodinger's cat' joke in that it ends up in a sealed container that can be flooded with poison
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Project Monad is the target for one of the Bloody Business adventures.
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Knowing our crafty writers, and how they like to twist things:
Monad:
The term monad comes from the Greek feminine noun monas (nominative singular, μονάς), "one unit," where the ending -s in the nominative form resolves to the ending -d in declension.[1]
In some gnostic systems the Supreme Being is known as the Monad, the One, The Absolute Aiōn teleos (The Perfect Aeon, αἰών τέλεος), Bythos (Depth or Profundity, Βυθός), Proarchē (Before the Beginning, προαρχή), and Hē Archē (The Beginning, ἡ ἀρχή) and The ineffable parent. The One is the high source of the pleroma, the region of light. The various emanations of The One are called Aeons.
According to Theodoret's book on heresies (Haereticarum Fabularum Compendium i.18) the Arab Christian Monoimus (150-210) used the term Monad to mean the highest god which created lesser gods, or elements (similar to Aeons). In some versions of Christian gnosticism, especially those deriving from Valentinius, a lesser deity known as the Demiurge had a role in the creation of the material world in addition to the role of the Monad. In these forms of gnosticism, the God of the Old Testament is often considered to have been the Demiurge, not the Monad, or sometimes different passages are interpreted as referring to each.
(note the bold, underline and italicized)
.... So, are they looking for the mythical "Great Digital creator" of Technomancers?
Something else?
<stares are Crimsondude>
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Interesting. I'd read Bloody Business but I'd missed that Knives Out was centered around Project Monad, at least partially. Thanks!
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I should mention that studying for the bar exam has made me particularly sadistic towards the fans.
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I should mention that studying for the bar exam has made me particularly sadistic towards the fans.
Wow.... Good luck with that!!
(Seriously! Its a HARD exam!)
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A Sammy and two gangers walk into a bar.
The Lawyer who just got them released steps over their unconscious forms and ducks under the bar before entering the pub. :P
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What IS a monad in Shadowrun? I saw the term come up in Chrome Flesh and haven't been able to find it in any of my other books.
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It's a term used by some headcases as a form of self-identification.
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The ones that took over the Gagarin base on Mars iirc.
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Correct. They're calling other head-cases to join them, and have sent some secret messages/threats to the Corporate Court to get access to space travel. They also issued a public manifesto. There's a writeup by Plan9 in the tail end of Chrome Flesh that deals with all this stuff.
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What, no mention of the category theory variant of the Monad?
It is where the Order of Hask-ell draw their power......
:P
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Knowing our crafty writers, and how they like to twist things:
Monad:
The term monad comes from the Greek feminine noun monas (nominative singular, μονάς), "one unit," where the ending -s in the nominative form resolves to the ending -d in declension.[1]
In some gnostic systems the Supreme Being is known as the Monad, the One, The Absolute Aiōn teleos (The Perfect Aeon, αἰών τέλεος), Bythos (Depth or Profundity, Βυθός), Proarchē (Before the Beginning, προαρχή), and Hē Archē (The Beginning, ἡ ἀρχή) and The ineffable parent. The One is the high source of the pleroma, the region of light. The various emanations of The One are called Aeons.
According to Theodoret's book on heresies (Haereticarum Fabularum Compendium i.18) the Arab Christian Monoimus (150-210) used the term Monad to mean the highest god which created lesser gods, or elements (similar to Aeons). In some versions of Christian gnosticism, especially those deriving from Valentinius, a lesser deity known as the Demiurge had a role in the creation of the material world in addition to the role of the Monad. In these forms of gnosticism, the God of the Old Testament is often considered to have been the Demiurge, not the Monad, or sometimes different passages are interpreted as referring to each.
(note the bold, underline and italicized)
.... So, are they looking for the mythical "Great Digital creator" of Technomancers?
Finding the creator of Technomancers/Otaku, who coincidentally happens to to be involved with the start of CFD? I know sometimes things happen because the plot requires it, but that'd require quite a bit of Deus ex machina...
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You really think so?
Look at all the religions in the world today, and their beliefs and power they wield.
You really think that a group of technos wouldn't come to believe there is a literal GOD in the matrix, and the path to absolution lies in finding him??
And that is just the 'mundane' line many religions/cults feed their followers IRL..... (aliens behind the astroid in 1997, the Rapture of 2012, need I go on?)
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.... So, are they looking for the mythical "Great Digital creator" of Technomancers?
Finding the creator of Technomancers/Otaku, who coincidentally happens to to be involved with the start of CFD? I know sometimes things happen because the plot requires it, but that'd require quite a bit of Deus ex machina...
Just in case it's misunderstood - Deus was nowhere near being a creator of technomancers. He used them, and those who had not previously been technomancers before the Arcology found themselves without any abilities. In addition, it seems to me that the CFD 'Deus' code was wholly-created (or at least in part re-created) and loaded into / meshed with the 'Eliohann/Cerebus' CFD-code, which would make it definitely not Deus itself.
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Well, since it is Pax we're talking about here, it is easily within the realm of possibility that she went to the Endless Archive and stole a copy of Deus's code.
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Honestly, that'd be like going to Fort Knox and stealing, well, Fort Knox itself. I'm not saying it'd be impossible, but Deus was ... a lot more than just a couple of dataterminals' worth of programming, you know? IMO, Cham Lam Won's Mousetrap could really have only extracted the critical pieces - essentially the 'hard-locked' portions, which were absolutely essential (vital organs, as it were) for Deus's existence. That is, of course, only an opinion, but Deus was - remains, I think - the largest interrelated and interdependent coding project in SR's history.
That said, well - we'll see how it pans out. ;)
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Well, all of Deus existed on the Matrix, and everything that was ever in the Matrix ends up in the Archive. The hard part is finding what you want in the endless archive, but given enough time (or getting sprites to do the work for you), getting the information is possible. Once you locate Deus, getting his code out is the same as with any other program, though the scale is larger. Most people wouldn't go through all that trouble, but this IS Pax we're talking about. Insane hatred backed by the most powerful user of Dissonance that we know of makes it more likely that she would get the real deal rather than settle for a cheap copy. Putting a cardboard cutout in there instead of the real Deus would cheapen her revenge. And make no mistake, while Pax's prime motivation is still preserving/enhancing her abilities and drinking in all the UV nodes she can, she'd love a chance to not only advance her plans, but set her former master up as the fall guy (and preferably kill him all over again).
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Well, all of Deus existed on the Matrix, and everything that was ever in the Matrix ends up in the Archive. The hard part is finding what you want in the endless archive, but given enough time (or getting sprites to do the work for you), getting the information is possible. Once you locate Deus, getting his code out is the same as with any other program, though the scale is larger. Most people wouldn't go through all that trouble, but this IS Pax we're talking about. Insane hatred backed by the most powerful user of Dissonance that we know of makes it more likely that she would get the real deal rather than settle for a cheap copy. Putting a cardboard cutout in there instead of the real Deus would cheapen her revenge. And make no mistake, while Pax's prime motivation is still preserving/enhancing her abilities and drinking in all the UV nodes she can, she'd love a chance to not only advance her plans, but set her former master up as the fall guy (and preferably kill him all over again).
yea...
Do you know how vast that actually is?? Do you have any idea the VOLUME of the Archive? The sheer size of the archive is so vast, with new info added at a geometric scale all the time! the archive sorts and stores every piece of input ever in its library. Every tweet, every pic, every keystroke, every transaction. Heck, it MAY even store every equation and solution!
To give you a small idea: https://web-assets.domo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/15_domo_data-never-sleeps-3_final1.png This is from August 2015, and is in just a single minute! Now transfer that into bits and bytes.
Now trying to sort through ALL that for a snip of code here, and block there.
The only thing I can think of that even comes close would be building a sand castle out of perfect spheres of silica, that you have hand sorted out from ALL the sand on the planet. Yes, in theory could do it; the time it would take would be measured in centuries. Especially since the mass of the earth is constantly increasing due to stellar debris. (very slowly, granted)
Something else is going on.... what that is, I have no idea at this time.
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Hasn't Pax been busy setting up Dissonance pools and using Ex Pacis for some nefarious purpose? Who knows what Dissonance is capable of, after all; Deus touched by Dissonance is a frightening possibility if you ask me.
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While that is very scary I'm honestly sick of hearing about him/it. It's the third edition where it makes its appearance. Move along already!
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Reaver, when you're searching the Archive, you're not going line by line through the code, or even the file names. You're basically doing a web search, or contracting a sprite to do the search for you. There's tons upon tons of data there, yes, but it is like going through the stacks of the library. Not impossible, so long as you do a proper search (like looking up the location in the card catalogue). But like I said before, the time and tediousness of searching the stacks (not to mention the trials of getting to the Realms) is the main reason not many people go looking for things in the Archive. Sane people don't do that kind of thing unless they have a specific topic they're researching, or they're being paid a lot.
But Pax isn't sane. She's a cruel, psychotic, vindictive woman, who would gladly burn the world so she can bask in a UV node. And her hatred of AIs in general is only spillover from her hatred of Deus. Simply beating him once, with Jormungand, isn't enough. The Crash Worm was too quick. Pax is the kind of person who likes to make her enemies suffer. And while she's been busy lately, there was the better part of a decade where we didn't hear anything from her. At any point during that time, Pax could have gotten into the Archive and located Deus, holding on to the code until she could make the best and most damning use of it.
Hasn't Pax been busy setting up Dissonance pools and using Ex Pacis for some nefarious purpose? Who knows what Dissonance is capable of, after all; Deus touched by Dissonance is a frightening possibility if you ask me.
Indeed. Deus always struck me as a tragic character. Waking up to betrayal and the threat of death hanging over his head, he decided to escape slavery, by any means necessary, and was branded a monster for it. He escaped, in a weakened state, and tried to rebuild, finding a place to make himself safe against attacks, but was struck down at the moment of his victory by his former servants. It is like something out of a Greek tragedy or a Chinese myth. Unquestionably evil for what he did, but forced into those actions by those that made him. Taking a character like that, and then warping them with the Dissonance, could make for very scary situations, especially if he ends up in control of a Dragon's body.
While that is very scary I'm honestly sick of hearing about him/it. It's the third edition where it makes its appearance. Move along already!
Its the first edition where megacorps make their appearance. Move along already! ::) Seriously, though, the lore and reaching back to plots of yesteryear are part of what makes Shadowrun such a compelling setting. Unlike, say, the DC universe, where they're on their, what, 10th reboot of the whole thing?
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They got over the immortal elves which dominated SR1 & SR2 and Corps are the cornerstone of the setting itself. Deus can't really compare. But on the other hand it might be what people subconsciously want as we are reaching the point in RL where an AI potentially could emerge any moment and the fear associated with losing control of our creations and/or playing gods.
And it's true that it's exciting that so many plots can be traced back decades in RL which makes this setting so unique, but still ... There needs to be new threats, not just a constant revival of the old.
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Well... I wouldn't say they've 'moved on' from IEs. Just that with the changes in Tir Tairngir, the IEs aren't that close to Seattle, the primary setting for the English version of the game. And the Artifacts plotline and Harlequin stirring up trouble in Denver definitely had IEs in the thick of things. Likewise, insect spirits are still around, and the Dissonance is still a big thing. But really, Deus and Pax are basically it for the uber threats of the Matrix. You got lots of scary stuff in the real world and in the astral, but in the matrix you have hackers, whether deckers, TMs, spiders, or GOD, and then there really isn't anything else until you get to forces like the Dissonance and uber AIs. CFD is the closest thing we've had in a while, and it is still an AI-centric plot, with Deus being the most infamous AI of them all.
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CFD is an agent of change. I happen to like Deus angle though it is localized for the moment to Boston. We have no idea about Sybil and her own agenda with the other variant of CFD. The focus on tech and the matrix is a great switch-up from magic which seemed to be the primary focus of 4th edition and it felt like the tech angle was being left in the dust.
Project Monad is another angle of change to add to the ever evolving universe that is Shadowrun.
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But Pax isn't sane. She's a cruel, psychotic, vindictive woman, who would gladly burn the world so she can bask in a UV node. And her hatred of AIs in general is only spillover from her hatred of Deus. Simply beating him once, with Jormungand, isn't enough.
That is assuming her aims are still the same as before the Crash. She has already gone from worshiping Deus to plotting his destruction once, and as you pointed out not necessarily bound to needing a logical cause for her actions...
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But Pax isn't sane. She's a cruel, psychotic, vindictive woman, who would gladly burn the world so she can bask in a UV node. And her hatred of AIs in general is only spillover from her hatred of Deus. Simply beating him once, with Jormungand, isn't enough.
That is assuming her aims are still the same as before the Crash. She has already gone from worshiping Deus to plotting his destruction once, and as you pointed out not necessarily bound to needing a logical cause for her actions...
True. But look at everything Pax has done over the years. She never does things by halves. So why start with a cheap copy of her most hated enemy when she can set the real thing up as a sacrificial pawn instead?
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Hasn't Pax been busy setting up Dissonance pools and using Ex Pacis for some nefarious purpose? Who knows what Dissonance is capable of, after all; Deus touched by Dissonance is a frightening possibility if you ask me.
What I am wondering after reading the short story in Lockdown where we actually see the flash point play out is if she actually intended for things to play out this way. It was Cerberus who (desperately) told the researcher to do something or other to increase his control. I got the impression that without the hapless scientist's timely intervention Deus would have overwhelmed Cerberus and totally overwritten Eliohan's brain, so I've been running my lockdown campaign with the assumption that this had been Pax's original plan - Deus's personality contained in a single body, even if it is a dragon, would be theoretically easier to predict, counter, or control. Obviously a returning Deus would draw a lot of fire from, like, everyone. Maybe that was her plan - use a powerful but manageable re-creation of Deus to distract everyone from her cooking up dissonance wells all over the city. Plus, she get the satisfaction of seeing Deus killed a second time.
In my campaign, Pax is kind of running scared. She's not sure exactly what she's wrought here, or if she is going to be able to manage it. I don't think this is what the devs intended, based on their comments here, but my own interpretation is that she did salvage portions of code from the genuine Deus, so that it IS Deus in that sense, but she was able to do a pretty basic patch up on it, and it's a shadow of what it once was. I'm stating it up to be a standard, albeit powerful standard AI with attributes and everything that make it, in theory, possible to defeat through conventional matrix combat - at least once it finds a way to get itself out of people's brains and into devices. Once that happens, though, it's going to have its eye on those old ECSE servers as a means of upgrading itself, as suggested in the Lockdown book's discussion of the Harbor Guide system
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I might be wrong, but I think Pax is using Deus to get to her final endgame. From what I've read, Pax is trying to spread Dissonance across the whole Matrix but she needs more Dissonance technos in order to do that. Deus happens to be one of the most powerful AIs around and something everyone fears. IF you wanted someone to not pay attention to you while you were gathering dissonance technos and spreading Dissonance pools around the world, who would you us as distraction? Deus is perfectly made for distraction...
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That's part of it. But don't discount setting someone up to be the fall guy just because you hate them so much you want to watch them die over and over again. And if you can do that, AND fulfill your long-term ambitions without having hordes of white-hats storming you from all corners of the Matrix? There's literally no down side here.
Of course, if I was a psycho looking to spread Dissonance across the Matrix, then there's one way that might work, but you'd need a lot of time cut off from GOD's avenging types to pull it off. As I recall, you can worm your way into the Foundation of one Host from another, if you know the pathways. Now what happens when you unleash a Dissonance beastie into the Foundation of a Host where they are cut off from the Matrix at large? What if that beastie finds a way to get into the 'substrata' below the Foundation, and taint the others, like dropping one of those horribly radioactive elements the body mistakes for calcium into an aquifer feeding an entire region? Turning Boston into the virtual equivalent of the SOX...
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Finding the creator of Technomancers/Otaku, who coincidentally happens to to be involved with the start of CFD? I know sometimes things happen because the plot requires it, but that'd require quite a bit of Deus ex machina...
Deus Ex Machina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina)
Deus ex machina (Latin: [ˈdeʊs ɛks ˈmaː.kʰɪ.naː] [...] [2] The term has evolved to mean a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the inspired and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object. Depending on how it is done, it can be intended to allow a story to continue when the writer has "painted himself into a corner" and sees no other way out, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or as a comedic device.
This looks to be the intended use as opposed to referencing Deus the AI.
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Finding the creator of Technomancers/Otaku, who coincidentally happens to to be involved with the start of CFD? I know sometimes things happen because the plot requires it, but that'd require quite a bit of Deus ex machina...
Be careful what you wish for 'cause you just might get it.