Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Devil on <01-03-16/0826:39>
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So I'm curious if the social limit penalty for Securitech PPP is cumulative or if you just get a penalty of 1 total, no matter how many pieces you wear. The way it is in the table makes me think it is the latter, but I want to be sure.
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cumulative, that is if their visible, but then again you have to have them visible to get the bonus sooo....
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cumulative, that is if their visible, but then again you have to have them visible to get the bonus sooo....
yep just like a bullet proof vest, now if I wear a Vashion Island or Mortimer of Island suit and jacket do those cancel each other out?
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Start by asking if you are appropriately dressed for the situation. Armor at a night club is inappropriate. Armored vest on a security guard is not. If it is inappropriate, adjust the subject's attitude, typically to suspicious. Next, make an etiquette test with modifiers to bypass the faux pas. This brings you to your resting attitude, and now you add up bonuses and penalties for your charisma based tests. Note that if you're speaking for a group, each member of the group committing the faux pas counts against your etiquette test. So if you're the face, but the Sammies insist on attending the meeting in full riot gear, you've got to erase those mistakes first or you're likely to be doing hostile negotiations.
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Can anyone site anything semi-official saying they are cumulative? The way the table is drives me to question this.
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I'd be tempted to say it isn't cumulative for a very simple reason.
Most other items that have accessories don't stack where features are concerned, like the SWAT Armor listed just above Securetech PPP on page 70 for example; wearing both the SWAT armor and helmet shouldn't give you a +4 Social limit to Intimidation tests and a -2 Social limit to all other social tests (i.e. +2 and -1 each, respectively), at least not in my opinion. If that's the case, wearing three pieces of PPP kit shouldn't stack for the purposes of decreasing your social limit.
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Some pieces of armor raise the Social Limit of the wearer. These modifiers do not stack; only the highest modifier of any visible clothing item counts (and “visible” means seeing enough of it that viewers get a solid impression of what the garment does on the wearer.
Bonuses to social limit do not stack. Based on the wording, I'd say penalties are not limited in such a fashion.
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Or it could just be yet another example of lazy writing. Again, take other examples where multiple pieces are present (SWAT armor, milspec armor, etc); would you double up the negatives for these pieces for wearing the armor and the helmet?
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I wouldn't offer modifiers for wearing the helmet. Social Limit modifiers are based on the outfit, and the helmet is part of an outfit, not the outfit itself.
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And the PPP kits are all part of one outfit as far as I'm concerned. They're all armor accessories, so why should these three pieces stack for the purposes of negative modifiers when wearing a helmet with a suit of armor does not?
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Try combining what I said, rather than picking it apart.
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I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate?
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When you take both sentences, there's no place for asking why PPP stacks with itself. Each outfit stacks with other outfits' penalties.
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That's kind of my point, though. SecureTech PPP is one outfit comprised of three pieces, so whether you wear one or all three you get -1 to Social Limit, and not -(number of pieces worn).
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but the argument against that is the fact that you specifically cant wear the vitals kit with anything covering the chest slot (armor vest/jacket full body armor etc) and the arms and legs kits, they cant be combined with FBA.
so you can wear the arms/legs kit with a armor vest and a FBA helmet, but you cant wear FBA with any of them.
actually re-reading and looking at things i think i'm going to change my answer, id say its a one and done basis on the thinking that it is a "set" of armor as novocrane is stating, just like the riot control armor is a set. and when you buy both the riot control armor and helmet you dont double up on the penaltys/bonuses that those types of gear give you.
however i think that if your stacking mutiple sets of items that have limit modifers like this they do stack EX: Armor Jacket, PPE legs/arms, Swat Helmet. you would have the following social penalties: Decrease Social Limit by 1, Gear Access, Increase Social Limit by 2 for Intimidation Tests (3 when wireless) and reduce it by 1 for all other Social Tests with the general public,
so you would be at an increase of 2 for intimidation tests, and a -2 for all other social tests (argument could be made that with security forces you would only be at a -1 because of the wording of the Swat Helmet)
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So is this a GM interpretation thing, because the wording is totally ambiguous? Chummer says that they stack, but it doesn't actually apply any of the penalties and Chummer is by no means official.
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Armor at a night club is inappropriate.
That depends on the club! ;D
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Start by asking if you are appropriately dressed for the situation. Armor at a night club is inappropriate. Armored vest on a security guard is not. If it is inappropriate, adjust the subject's attitude, typically to suspicious. Next, make an etiquette test with modifiers to bypass the faux pas. This brings you to your resting attitude, and now you add up bonuses and penalties for your charisma based tests. Note that if you're speaking for a group, each member of the group committing the faux pas counts against your etiquette test. So if you're the face, but the Sammies insist on attending the meeting in full riot gear, you've got to erase those mistakes first or you're likely to be doing hostile negotiations.
Can you make a pair of examples for how this runs? The rule book is sadly short of complete examples.
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The armor is inappropriate comment, also depends are where the runners are. In Sioux lands, armored jacket is considered fashionable (if it is leather, which is also cheaper there). So, knowing where you are also makes a big difference.
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PPP is just like Pixie firing gun... just don't.
Had to get it off my chest.
Go back to your discussion.
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course I think PPP is like the Pay day armor (http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/585782746057539924/903EC143E467601FCBB4615B14CE45D410F5751C/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C268:268&composite-to=*,*%7C268:268&background-color=black)
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PPP is just like Pixie firing gun... just don't.
Had to get it off my chest.
Go back to your discussion.
How do you feel about forearm guards, ballistic masks, and helmets?
It seems like lots of people recommend helmets and masks, why wouldn't PPP be any different?
Disclosure, I can see wearing a helmet on a motorcycle as well as either of the two to conceal your face when on a run (pretty obvious the guy in the helmet with an uzi is here to rob the place). In that same scenario when you aren't trying to fit in, why not wear some PPP?
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I think it comes down to how you consider the nature of the penalty generated by the PPP. If it's inappropriate attire, wearing still more Inappropriate attire doesn't really seem to matter to me. If you think your get the penalty for PPP for being insufficiently macho it could be different.
In general I don't really see a reason for it to stack. But for full disclosure sake I have used it on several builds, b/c 20ish armor is more important to most of my builds then having a couple more points of S-limit.
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PPP is just like Pixie firing gun... just don't.
Had to get it off my chest.
Go back to your discussion.
How do you feel about forearm guards, ballistic masks, and helmets?
It seems like lots of people recommend helmets and masks, why wouldn't PPP be any different?
Disclosure, I can see wearing a helmet on a motorcycle as well as either of the two to conceal your face when on a run (pretty obvious the guy in the helmet with an uzi is here to rob the place). In that same scenario when you aren't trying to fit in, why not wear some PPP?
It was a non-sequitur comment.
Be that as it may... just like a pixie firing a gun looks silly in my head, when I picture someone with PPP and a helmet my mind goes... and the runner goes, swing and a miss, the catcher throws to second, and the runner is... get the picture.
My second problem with all the accessories is that guy in the group that insists on wearing it all the time regardless of the situation,
I like Sleeping Tiger- wearing PPP with it is a faux pas. However, if we're in the barrens I have no problem with pulling out a ballistic mask, ppp or other accessory from the trunk and putting it on. 'll just feel silly wearing it, but better silly than dead.
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My second problem with all the accessories is that guy in the group that insists on wearing it all the time regardless of the situation,
I like Sleeping Tiger- wearing PPP with it is a faux pas. However, if we're in the barrens I have no problem with pulling out a ballistic mask, ppp or other accessory from the trunk and putting it on. 'll just feel silly wearing it, but better silly than dead.
I've always kinda thought that the assorted social penalties for certain armors were understated. Someone in Riot Gear goes jogging in the park, you're going to get a lot of 911 calls.
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*disclaimer: this is a houserule territory* :D
My character has a set of PPP with softweave and an expensive fashion-spell treatement (doubling the price),
to turn it in to a set consisting of a bodice, stockings and long-sleeved gloves. 8)
With mods comming to the price tag 11000nuyen.