Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: MostlyHarmless on <01-10-16/0732:01>
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Hi all,
I was looking at making an AI character, and with Rigger 5.0 out, there's a lot more toys to play with.
So far, I've been looking at using a Saeder-Krupp Direktionssekretar, since bipedal drones will fit most places, as well as use most gear that Shadowrunners can use, especially armour.
However, I'm not quite sure how to maximise the drone, as well as equipment. Assuming priority B for resources, what would be the best way to kit them out?
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Ah, yes, a question I've asked myself too.
The Secretary is a very good option if you want everything ready in a nice package.
The Kikai has STR 8 arms an can be cheaply upgraded to be on the level of the Secretary (Pilot 4 being the main thing)
I made a true robot (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22882.0) build previously in the character build board, but I realized later that it's actually not completely rules legal, as the Kikai's pilot can not be upgraded further than 4.
Luckily there are still other options:
The Sparring Drone from Hard Targets is very affordable and can be upgraded beyond the Secretary for very little extra money. (Also you look a bit like baymax from big hero 6)
Last but not least, a Duellist drone can also be easily upgraded to and is easy to obtain.
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I'd choose the Executive Secretary as well, it's just a shame it "only" has body 4 so it can only ever have AV 12. That being said, it has Pilot 4 stock so can be upgraded to Agility 8 for it's arms, which is a costly but very good upgrade. Now, I don't quite know how drone upgrades would work if you're piloting it as an AI; maybe the AI attributes take precedence, or the physical body of the drone limits it's effectiveness, so there's that to consider too.
The Kenchiku-Kikai is a great chassis if the AI pilot takes over; with Pilot 8 it could be quite fearsome, but unfortunately the drone arm rules state that in tests where Agility is needed the arm attributes, not Pilot rating, is used. However, it's a Body 5 drone so can have 15 armor, and it's relative slow speed and low handling can be upgraded.
Another option is the Juggernaught; it's the only Body 6 Anthroform, which means you can get (highly illegal, as in Forbidden) AV 18 on it, making you pretty much invulnerable to small arms fire. It's pricey and bigger than a troll, but no other anthro drone can match it in terms of durability.
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Pilot is still the basis for most other actions but especially as device rating.
Also the problem with armor is that it's an attribute of a drone and you can't get more than double the existing value, so neither Kikai nor Secretary should bother with an upgrade there (rather a downgrade is in order) and instead concentrate on getting some normal cloth armor.
By the way, the rules state that the drone starts with agility=pilot rating, so if you get a drone with an upgraded pilot from the factory, you should also receive them with upgraded arms and legs (Otherwise you'd severely penalize Anthro drones compared to normal drones you upgraded the pilot and than just buy additional arms afterwards)
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Wouldn't the AI pilot rating take over for the drone pilot?
And I thought drone armor was the exception to the Attribute x 2 rule, as armor specifically states "A drone may bear the weight of Armor equal to three times its Body without a decrease in ability", etc. If you could only ever have AV = 2x base, I don't think this would be much of an issue except in extremely rare cases. Near as I can tell, the Juggernaught with it's Body of 6 and AV of 12 would run into this problem, where AV 24 could exceed Body 6 x 3.
How would that work for drones like the Juan with it's Body 0; 0 x 2 is still 0 (or you treat it like .5 so it would be 1). Maybe I need to house rule this too... *sighs*
I do agree that factory modified drones should come with enhances, but that's a personal opinion only.
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Always remember: The designers don't want durable drones - at all.
Also, that is one of the really neat things about having a drone body enhanced by an AI:
If you get your pilot rating high enough, you can just let the pilot do the fighting with its high stats while the AI does other nice things, like using Electronic Warfare to enhance its aim or hack or solve math problems.
In essence you can get two sets of actions that way.
Most important: A Rigger AI can use autosofts instead of skills, so it's in your interest to have a pilot that is as high as possible, so you can use rating 6 autosofts.
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Always remember: The designers don't want durable drones - at all.
Very good point. House rule it is; on closer reading you're absolutely right. Starting AV x 2 is maximum, as it most definitely is an attribute given that it is listed in the "Attribute Modifications" list.
That certainly puts another dampener on drone durability, even if AV 12+ wasn't Forbidden anyway. I honestly don't get the rationale for this; how does someone tell if a drone has AV12 or 13, thus making the difference between Restricted, you need a license" and Forbidden, you going to JAIL, son!
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Ohhhh. I just noticed something.
WARNING: Severe rules lawyering incoming - use arguments at your own risk.
Word of God if not from rules is, that cloth armor on Anthro drones does not stack with vehicle armor.
That doesn't actually mean that the vehicle/drone doesn't still shrug off damage that didn't exceed its armor rating.
Because vehicles don't have a stun track.
Physical damage that doesn't exceed armor is downgraded to stun. But how do you apply stun to a machine? They don't bruise and don't get winded.
Now you might say instead of no stun track they have a stun track of 0 (which is not the same thing).
That means drones still get the benefit of normal armor - i.e. they only get half physical damage, rounded down.
Either way this should severely increase the durability of your anthro drone.
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Armor in general, whether vehicle or personal, still applies that rule of "damage less than armor turns into Stun". So that would happen if someone shot at you and you're wearing Full Body Armor or something.
Drones are treated as vehicles, so they don't have a Stun track. They only suffer Physical or Matrix. So punching them is pointless unless you can hit REALLY hard. But shooting them with Shock rounds will deal Matrix damage.
So yes, you could dress your android in a Armor Jacket or Full Body Armor, and they would live much longer, as you'd expect anyone wearing those things would.
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Here's an interesting thing I've found. The RAW state that AI's with the drone quality can 'jump into' drones and vehicles of a particular type (aircraft, groundcraft, or watercraft, selected when the quality is selected). Where do walkers fit into this? Groundcraft, or something different? I suspect they are their own thing entirely (which is a big damn shame). However, later on in Data Trails (p.156, 'AI Vehicle Combat'), there's a line that says 'Only AI's with the Pilot Origins quality may use autosofts in place of active skills (probably not relevant for an AI in a Walker drone), , they also use their Depth in place of the Pilot rating of vehicles/drones they are running on.' I'm thinking that an AI with the Pilot Origins quality, regardless of what kind of vehicle/drone they're running on, can do this. Bit pricey in all honesty, and all but one part would be useless, but it's a way of getting that anthropoid drone with a pilot of 6.
Since anthropoid drones can wear armour like metahumans can (within reason - Juggernaughts aren't going to be using armoured vests), I would think that a Direktionssekretar drone with an armoured jacket is hardly stretching the rules. I'm not sure what the total armour soak would be, if the base armour counts on top of the armoured jacket, or it's just the best of the two. If it's the latter, then you can ditch armour and focus on other modifications.
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I plan on my AI character make his command RRC his home and I will connect it to his Dodge General and buy a bunch of F-B Bumblebees for his arsenal. The drones are in the book Nothing Personal. What do you guys think of this Idea?
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FYI the bumblebee was nerfed (reasonably imho) in rigger 5.0.
Regarding best drone for an A.I. I actually think the Shiawase I-Doll is the best option.
Why?
Because its the only one that can take realistic 4 mod.
this means your drone can pass as a metahuman, a nice option for an AI!
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Until a magician assenses you and discovers you don't have an aura.
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For sure! No defense against that.
But for daily walking around its pretty neat.
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For a lot of different choices, the I-Doll makes for an awesome AI home, especially if you're going 'off script', and doing an AI that isn't a specialty hacker. For instance, an AI Face or Street Samurai is possible when you use the I-Doll, and will pass scrutiny most of the time. You can even supplement the drone's armor with worn armor.
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Don't see why these other anthrodrones can't have realistic features 4. There doesn't seem to be any restriction on it beyond gm approval, cost, and maybe MP, depending on how you interpret it. The duelist, at least, starts with rating (1) and we had no qualms about upgrading that to a 4. Also added a multi-fuel engine so it can eat food like a real person!
In an effort to make it more autonomous and give it more active autosofts, I've incorporated an RCC into the design, in a smuggling compartment in one of its drone legs, but I'm not sure what the hierarchy should look like - drone slaved to RCC with an agent and autosofts running? Who gives the orders then, the agent to the pilot? Or does it just have two "minds" active at once? Any thoughts or is this illegal for some reason?
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Don't see why these other anthrodrones can't have realistic features 4. There doesn't seem to be any restriction on it beyond gm approval, cost, and maybe MP, depending on how you interpret it. The duelist, at least, starts with rating (1) and we had no qualms about upgrading that to a 4. Also added a multi-fuel engine so it can eat food like a real person!
does Realistic Features take up MP? I think Realistic Features 4 is around uncanny valley territory 3 is probably good enough plus Realistic feature 4 is kinda expensive and outside character creation. Are realstic features "upgradeable"? or is it start from scratch? somehow I cant understand even with armor how you "add" armor to a preexisting drone course I guess its like screwing on more sheets of armor over top it then added on something like realistic features or chameleon coating
In an effort to make it more autonomous and give it more active autosofts, I've incorporated an RCC into the design, in a smuggling compartment in one of its drone legs, but I'm not sure what the hierarchy should look like - drone slaved to RCC with an agent and autosofts running? Who gives the orders then, the agent to the pilot? Or does it just have two "minds" active at once? Any thoughts or is this illegal for some reason?
the drone would probably be controlled by the pilot on the RCC which is controlled by the user which uses the autosofts installed on the RCC
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does Realistic Features take up MP?
It is not documented to. In my mind, it's basically a full-conversion new model of the drone, so it doesn't take any MP because it's functionally redoing everything about the drone.
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the drone would probably be controlled by the pilot on the RCC which is controlled by the user which uses the autosofts installed on the RCC
Well, the idea is to run it autonomously. Obviously when jumping in, the drone will need to be marked by a device in the hands of the rigger, but I'm wondering what it would look like to have a "processing" RCC integral to the drone that gives it access to a couple more autosofts, a higher data processing and firewall, and an agent program to perform matrix defense for it. The agent should be able to run autonomously and if the drone is slaved to the RCC then how does it interact with other matrix icons? The rules here are not really clear to me. Also, I don't think the pilot can reside on the RCC..
As for realistic features, we'd been using the MP cost from the vehicle section bc the wasn't one listed in the drone section. I'm not sure that's right, but it seemed like an extensive enough upgrade that MP should be required.
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Any of the anthroform drones would work. Upgrading the pilot to 4 Then boosting it to six with designer and optimisation benefits now gives ability to run 6 Autosofts/programs (wakshani confirmed in the rigger errata thread) so you can easily skimp on skills to up your resources to pimp one anthro drone. The dual cyber Limbs and legs can be pimped and you can use metahuman guns and armour. Brilliant! Plus you can mod the drone with a stealth rating from Data trails and go hacking, emulating an attack rating if you need to crack encryption. By walking up to a device, the drone can connect a cable tap and cable into the drone's universal port and you get to do direct connection hacking. Schwing!
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Transys maid ftw!
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Any of the anthroform drones would work. Upgrading the pilot to 4 Then boosting it to six with designer and optimisation benefits now gives ability to run 6 Autosofts/programs (wakshani confirmed in the rigger errata thread) so you can easily skimp on skills to up your resources to pimp one anthro drone. The dual cyber Limbs and legs can be pimped and you can use metahuman guns and armour. Brilliant! Plus you can mod the drone with a stealth rating from Data trails and go hacking, emulating an attack rating if you need to crack encryption. By walking up to a device, the drone can connect a cable tap and cable into the drone's universal port and you get to do direct connection hacking. Schwing!
Wait? how you getting pilot rating of 6 without upgrading the Pilot?
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Wait? how you getting pilot rating of 6 without upgrading the Pilot?
Optimization. Because you're an AI and can do that!
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And the designer positive quality. +2 pilot for the cost of pilot 4 which is about 3k or something affordable!
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One thing to do would be to increase social skills, so you can mimic being a metahuman piloting the drone. Alternatively, add in a good personasoft and just lie to the rest of the team/ the public that you have a very highly advanced pilot program to explain why you are so effective. Throw in a jammer if you want to stop a decker, take up ECM warfare skill as one of the beginning skills, throw in pilot drone (ground vehicle) origin, and you could make for a good street sam/rigger character.
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My vote for best drone for an AI is a blank slate metatype... make his chipjack your home... chrome the heck out of the meatbody.
Might be on the morally corrupt side...but heck, you're a shadowrunner, not Mother Teresa.
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I always have wanted rules for metahuman biodrones...
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I dunno I think it does take up MP.
As it involves electro-mechanical devices to simulate breathing, heart beat, circulatory system, skin, hair etc.
So yeah, I'm pretty sure it does take up mod points.
Also it's in the "mod" section and there is a mod point cost for it in the tables at the end of the book, so yeah it takes up mod points.
If you read the text description you will realize that the higher levels (above rating 2) are mostly inaccessible to normal folks and cannot be modded onto most anthro drones.
see below.
So absent a facility and the skills and time to custom mod an anthro drone you SOL.
Unless you buy an i-doll which specifically says it can be customized at the factory to be more realistic than it's default mod of realistic features 1.
As usual you must sift multiple entries throughout the book to make sense of what is possible when it should have all been written nicely and concisely in the entry for Realistic Features.
"While many drones can be made realistic (receiving Rating 1), allowing them to pass at a casual glance at a distance or at night, wheels, quad fans, and so on are quite dif cult to disguise. Most drones cannot be given Realistic Features beyond Rating 1, while some cannot even obtain that level. (The gamemaster is the nal arbi- trator on what is and isn’t appropriate.) Realistic Features 2 can be added with a Shop, but higher than this requires a Facility (most drones this realistic are designed as such before being sold)."
does Realistic Features take up MP?
It is not documented to. In my mind, it's basically a full-conversion new model of the drone, so it doesn't take any MP because it's functionally redoing everything about the drone.
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My vote for best drone for an AI is a blank slate metatype... make his chipjack your home... chrome the heck out of the meatbody.
Might be on the morally corrupt side...but heck, you're a shadowrunner, not Mother Teresa.
Some Shadowrunners would be appalled by that,other have done worst for the lulz.either way its a interesting Idea.
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My vote for best drone for an AI is a blank slate metatype... make his chipjack your home... chrome the heck out of the meatbody.
Might be on the morally corrupt side...but heck, you're a shadowrunner, not Mother Teresa.
Some Shadowrunners would be appalled by that,other have done worst for the lulz.either way its a interesting Idea.
Just install rigger controls and a chipjack on a wimp. Problem solved.
Still would choose the Secretary drone.
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Not quite. Wimps aren't really good for anything but replacement parts, honestly. You can do something to combat atrophy via electricity, but the mental pathways just aren't there to help you control the 'drone'. That's why no one has used wimp biodrones before now. (Believe me, if it could be done, the corps would have done it by now, and would be using them instead of runners for most of their deniable asset needs.)
You'd need something like the stirrup interface from 4E, and that's gonna take up a lot of essence in your drone, making it so you're going to be relatively light on other 'ware. Unless you somehow get to rig into a cyberzombie. (By this point, you should smack your GM with a phonebook if he is even considering the possibility.) But we know having a metahuman 'biodrone' is possible, since the Proteus board is rumored to use them all the time. For the rest, your best bet would be an anthroform drone with a high Mimic rating, and go from there.