Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Strange on <01-13-16/0210:56>
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Anyone know the concealability modifier of the armor vest? Form Fitting Body Armor is at -6, but I don't see the concealability for the vest anywhere. Page 420 in the core book has the modifiers for different weapons and such, but not for the vest. Thanks!
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Form fitting is the ONLY armor in SR5 with a concealability rating.
If it helps you, they mention the vest is designed to be worn under clothing....
But, I would assume it would have a concealability of 0. (No bonus, no penalty)
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An armor vest is not concealable. It's pretty much the ballistic vests of today so highly obvious.
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An armor vest is not concealable. It's pretty much the ballistic vests of today so highly obvious.
That doesn't sound like this;This modern flexible-wrap vest is designed to be worn under regular clothing without displaying any bulk.
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I've always imagined the Armour Vest to be the Shadowrun version of the hidden vest that only gets revealed after the character gets shot and somebody rips open their shirt to see the bullet sticking into the previously unknown armour.
Can you have a Concealability Rating that only applies until the character gets shot?
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I guess I was wrong, please excuse me for that.
If none is given why not just keep it as 0 or even -2 for you consider it to be thin enough?
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I'd say you can't notice without touching, at which point it is obvious. FFBA on the other hand might go undetected in a pat down. Basically, treat it similar to a synthetic cyberlimb.
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For an armored vest I'd apply the default 0 concealability modifier, and since spotting something that is concealed is a success test with a threshold entirely up to the GM I'd play around with the difficulty. An obscured object is threshold 3, a hidden object is threshold 4, so I'd say depending on the amount of clothing covering it it's at least a threshold 3+ test. If the user was trying to actively conceal it, then the test becomes opposed instead.
Off-topic, but if synthetic cyberlimbs are "obviously artificial to the touch", wouldn't everyone with thermal vision mods instantly spot cyberlimbs since they (presumably) don't have the same temperature as the rest of the human body? Or is this one of those situations where you just handwave it for simplicity's sake.
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Well, they DO have to give off some sort ot thermal signature, with all the motors and moving parts in them. They also can't get TO hot, because that woul having them attached to the body be a bit problematic.
So, for simplicities sake and to not needlessly screw Cyberpeople over even more, I'd probably refrain from making these Limbs obvious to thermal imaging devices.
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I recall previous versions offered securetech versions of basic armor (clothing vest ultra vest jacket long coat) course that version had concealability stat for each item the secure line usually offer +2-+3 tn to spot the armor which would probably translate to -2 to tests to spot armor as armor
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Well, I'm glad I wasn't missing a rule somewhere. The vest honestly seems like it should have come with a rating of its own, doesn't it? I mean, the description specifies that it is to be hidden under normal clothing, and does not display any bulk. Seems like that would be very hard to detect. Thanks for the help.
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I recall previous versions offered securetech versions of basic armor (clothing vest ultra vest jacket long coat) course that version had concealability stat for each item the secure line usually offer +2-+3 tn to spot the armor which would probably translate to -2 to tests to spot armor as armor
Yep. I think they've moved away from giving armor a concealability rating and using the social modifiers and legality codes. Since that is what obvious armor would be effecting.
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In the world of SR, I would expect things like armored jackets and vests to be so common as to be a non-issue in most social circles. (Only the very well off would find an issue with them... and then probably because they are just too 'cheap')
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In the world of SR, I would expect things like armored jackets and vests to be so common as to be a non-issue in most social circles. (Only the very well off would find an issue with them... and then probably because they are just too 'cheap')
Pretty much,just look at the description of the armored jacket in the core book
The most popular armor solution on the streets comes in all styles imaginable. It offers good prtection with out catching too much attention. But don't think of wearing one to a dinner party
as to what the might actually look like well I think some thing like this but with even more variety of styles
https://www.google.ca/search?q=armored+jacket&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi51Km0r6jKAhUB3WMKHbd5ASwQ_AUIBygB&biw=1280&bih=864
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In the world of SR, I would expect things like armored jackets and vests to be so common as to be a non-issue in most social circles. (Only the very well off would find an issue with them... and then probably because they are just too 'cheap')
It seems like armored jackets are serious protection, and not Inobvious. The example Corp guards that wear them carry sub machine guns. To me it's like wearing a guard or cops bomber jacket, distinctive without being too alarming. A vest on the other hand is much more discrete and makes the wearer more approachable than the jacket. Mall cop vs beat cop.
Cost is also a factor with the armored jacket coming in at 1,000¥. While cheap for a runner, it is a large expense for your average ganger or wageslave.
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I just think it's a non issue for society at large.
Kinda like seeing the villagers walk around in Ghana with AK-47s. Very much alarming for those not of that culture, but to those in that culture, it is as natural as wearing pants in North America.
I doubt very much that anyone walks around without some form of armored clothing, unless they are the ultra wealthy or the very, very poor. After all it's not just gunshots you have to worry about, environmental threats like acid rain and wildlife pose probably a greater danger.
Then there is the presumption of danger. Look at today, for most of North America violent crime is in a decline when compared to the 60s 70s 80s and 90s. Add to that the much more accessible was to report crime today (cell phones, WiFi, Social media, etc).... And yet people are bonkers about "the rampant crime rate"! So much so that last year it was news when 2 kids WALKED 2.5 blocks to a park! The Police actually drove the kids home and reamed out the parents "How DARE you send your kids to the park to play!" ::)
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/20/living/feat-md-free-range-parents-under-attack/
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
So yea, for 90% of the people in the SR world, an armored vest or Jacket is just a common sight.... So much so I bet they come in different colors and cuts so you can (cheaply) fashionize your armor to match your
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Maybe in the barrens. You walk around/into an arcology wearing an armored jacket and packing heat and they are liable to shoot you (largely depending on how affluent and not trog you look). Those people concerned about crime want those undesirables in their "para-military" gear off their streets. That's why the pawns roll around harassing metas and the poor.
Looking like you belong is important. Unless you are in a bad area or have a good reason (being a cop or security of some sort), you shouldn't be wearing obvious armor. Why? You're scaring the wage slaves! Everyone knows what armor jackets look like, just like everyone today knows what a guy wearing a bulletproof vest looks like.
Shadowrun goes from the very rich to the ultra poor. Anything goes in glow city. When you decide you want to move up your standards have to go up as well. That means going to discrete or high fashion armor and concealing those weapons.
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Maybe in the barrens. You walk around/into an arcology wearing an armored jacket and packing heat and they are liable to shoot you (largely depending on how affluent and not trog you look). Those people concerned about crime want those undesirables in their "para-military" gear off their streets. That's why the pawns roll around harassing metas and the poor.
An Armored Jacket and a discrete firearm are not a shoot on sight for standard security forces in public areas. Heavy armor and/or a large obvious weapon, yes you'll be stopped and questioned.
Obviously if its a restricted area then yes, armed intruders will be dealt with harshly. But places where anyone is allowed to wander around security can't chase after every civi in a heavy coat.
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Maybe in the barrens. You walk around/into an arcology wearing an armored jacket and packing heat and they are liable to shoot you (largely depending on how affluent and not trog you look). Those people concerned about crime want those undesirables in their "para-military" gear off their streets. That's why the pawns roll around harassing metas and the poor.
An Armored Jacket and a discrete firearm are not a shoot on sight for standard security forces in public areas. Heavy armor and/or a large obvious weapon, yes you'll be stopped and questioned.
Obviously if its a restricted area then yes, armed intruders will be dealt with harshly. But places where anyone is allowed to wander around security can't chase after every civi in a heavy coat.
Its not a heavy coat, its an armored jacket. It is distinct. People can tell what it is. Also, an arcology is not a public place. It is private property that constitutes it's own country (effectively). Its supposed to be a safe place for the employees of a mega. They will have security and will be on the lookout for people not belonging. So when your SIN doesn't read Renraku, you act different, and are armored up like you are expecting to be shot at you had better be prepared to be stopped. Twitch the wrong way and you are going to get shot or tasered.
If you want armor that can't be detected they make armored clothes which are practically impossible to detect. An armored vest is at least discrete.
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Hobbes, ZombieAcePilot
This is a good example of an instance where interpretation of the setting applies. Neither of you are wrong, you just interpret the world differently.
So for the OP asking about the concealability of an armored vest, the only real answer to your question is this: check with your GM, because there are obviously different interpretations of just this kind of question.
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Interestingly an armor jacket has an availability rating of 2, as does armored clothes – while an armored vest has a rating of 4. Apparently it is easier to go out and buy an armored jacket than it is a vest, and do note that there is no restricted tag on that availability, so it is legal. As noted, private property may have its own rules.
Some armor jackets are no doubt designed to look like armor, be imposing, etc. If you are security or a ganger you want to communicate that you are geared and tough. But that doesn’t mean that some aren’t cut in less obvious ways. It is still going to be a jacket of some weight, probably with a collar that can provides some neck protection when worn properly, so nobody is going to mistake one for a sweater or suit jacket or something. But I would think that they could pass for a bomber jacket or ski jacket or pea coat with built in neck flap, etc. (why do I say it has neck protection? Well, a vest plus two armored sleeves (from R&G) gives armor 11. A jacket might be a bit heavier, but I figure it also provides a bit more armor coverage—probably further down the hips and more coverage around the collar bones and lowest point of the neck).
Sure, a careful observer may be able to spot differences in how it hangs and moves, but that is why things have a concealability rating. And there are plenty of places where wearing a jacket like that may be conspicuous. But I think it is overkill to say that wearing an armored jacket into an arcology is going to get you promptly tazed.
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The people flipping on armored jackets is kinda funny. The whole Sioux nation views wearing armored jackets, openly caring light or heavy pistols (SS or SA only), and a combat knife the norm, to the point that you look weird without them. And yes, this includes higher end businesses or restaurants. Granted, they jackets are leather (which is cheaper in their nation). So no, armored jackets are not only for lower sec zones. Depends on where the run is. Majority of Seattle, they won't bat an eye nor will some cop give you crap. Restricted area for Corp personnel only, yeah you will be question then removed. Not because you are wearing an armored jacket, but because you don't belong there!
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Armor jacket: The most popular armor solution on the streets comes in all styles imaginable. It offers good protection without catching too much attention. But don’t think of wearing one to a dinner party.
How much attention do you want? Depends on who and where you are. If you are a SINless troll wearing an armor jacket in downtown... You just qualified for walking while troll! Prepare to be arrested for any excuse they can come up with. That is if they can't come up with an excuse for shooting you in the back.
If you are a suave rich kid with a corp ID trying to look like you are tough like the trid shadowrunners, you probably get away with it.
How good is your etiquette roll? Do you walk and talk the right way or are you sneering at those dirty pawns?
You are wearing an ARMOR solution. Most people don't wear armor. Its not as bad as security or SWAT armor for sure (then they really would start shooting), but people will notice in a decent area.
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If you are a SINless troll wearing an armor jacket in downtown... You just qualified for walking while troll! Prepare to be arrested for any excuse they can come up with. That is if they can't come up with an excuse for shooting you in the back.
Fixed!
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Worried about an Armoured Jacket looking too obvious? Go for the Ares Victory line, designed for just this problem:
"Ares makes these lines to keep people safe without making them all look like a bunch of sec officers" (Run & Gun, p. 63)
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"But normal people don't wear armor!"
Which for our would is true, but for SR universe it is not. Heck, even in the higher neighborhoods, devil rats, occasional paracritter, infected, or just acid rain does happen. So some armor (armored clothing up to jacket) is not that uncommon.
As for SINless, that is enough of a reason to be shot, more so for the goblinoid metas.
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heres what I think no secure tech armor would look like
(http://images.esellerpro.com/2375/I/910/622/shock_doc_body_armour_set_zps644d0062.jpg)
so that means I can wear my big game hunter downtown I suspect theres certain norms like in the barrens no one really cares wear as in downtown seattle people will take notice security would be alerted that you are up to something I think it depends on the security zone of the area you are in too wearing a big game hunter in a AAA security zone will cause attention but wearing something like executive suite which is only twice as much as an armored jacket but not a lot of armor capacity would not
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Most people don't wear armor.
Um. It's been pretty well established over several editions that most people in the Shadowrun universe do, in fact, wear armor. It's part of the dystopian genre.
Even in high society areas. It's just there, they wear stuff that doesn't LOOK like armor.
-k
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And I thought this was cyberpunk... See, I've read neuromancer (you know, the book that basicly started cyberpunk as a genre), and never once was that mentioned. The main thing I noticed was that everything was shitty. Lots of guns with grips wrapped in tape.
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And I thought this was cyberpunk... See, I've read neuromancer (you know, the book that basicly started cyberpunk as a genre), and never once was that mentioned. The main thing I noticed was that everything was shitty. Lots of guns with grips wrapped in tape.
LOL :D
Shadowrun "stopped " being Cyberpunk at the time of the second Ed.
Since then its always been a Dystopian/Fantasy Mix with Cyberpunk elements
You should better forget Neuromancer ( For your Interest : Gibson Hates Shadowrun becaus so many people complained that SR is Cyberpunk or is NOT Cyberpunk and how he Influenced SR etc, etc. he wants none to do with SR )
and Yes in the SR universe everybody that can efford it wears Bodyarmor (and Bodyguards for that matter ;) )
but it depends upon HOW you play SR ( Robocop Vs Minority Report / Judge Dredd Vs Equilibrium / Dark Angel Vs Space Precinct )
how you portrait that in your SR World
with a slightly protected Dance
Medicineman