Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Black Bart on <01-15-16/0010:08>
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This is my first character in a long time. Since second edition if I remember correctly. Feedback and constructive criticism welcome.
Black Bart
Race: Troll
Bod 7
Agi 3
Rea 4
Str 5
Cha 4
Int 2
Log 3
Wil 3
Edg 4
Qualities
Common Sense (Knows whether or not walking into a bad situation)
Thermographic Vision
Day Job 10 hrs (Drug Dealer)
Uneducated
Skills
Athletics 3
Biotech 2
Close Combat 5
Firearms 3
Influence 4
Outdoors 4
Stealth 2
Karma Summary
Metatype 90 K
Primary Attributes 255 K
Special Attributes 45 K
Positive Qualities 3 K
Negative qualities -13 K
3 contacts 6 K
Nuyen 22 K
Skill Groups 330 K
Active Skills 12 K
Totaled up to 750 Karma
Phys Condition 12
Stun Condition 10
Initiative 7+1d
Armor 10
Essence 5.44
Nuyen Left 640
Composure 7
Judge Intention 7
Lift and Carry 12
Memory 6
Movement 6
Movement 6/12
Cyberware/Bioware
Increased Hearing Spectrum(Alphaware) Essence cost 0.08
Spurs(standard) EC 0.3
Vision Enhancement (Rating 1) (Standard) EC 0.1
Sleep Regulator (Standard) EC 0.08 *Malfunctioning more overtime causing Insomnia
Lifestyle
Puyallup Streets Cost/Month 0
Gear/Armor
Lined Coat $900
Good pants $50
Good shoes $50
PJSS Model 55 $1000
100 Regular Shells $200
Bandoleer for shells $650
Backpack $100
MIcro Transceiver $100
Renraku Sensei $1000
Fake Shotgun License(rating 3) $600
Liter Canteen $10
Carton of cigarettes $50
Survival Kit $200
Lighter $5
Medkit Supplies $100
Biomonitor $300
9 doses Betameth $270
5 doses Jazz $375
3 doses Deepweed $1200
5 doses Red Mescaline $ 250
2 doses Overdrive $1600
Vehicle
Harley Scorpion
Sensor Array (rating 2)
Anti-Tamper Circuits (Rating 3)
Contacts
Marjorie: Puyallup Gang Leader
Caleb: Seattle Beat cop for Lone Star
Sarge: Penumbra Dist. Fixer
I hope thats everything character build wise. Chummer.5 is a pain to figure out uploading so thats why this long form.
Black Bart was born in the dirty streets of Puyallup, son of two trolls that didn't want another mouth to feed. They ditched him as soon as he could walk. A fresh badge named Caleb found him dying on the corner of Wilkins and 73rd. Caleb broke protocol and brought the young troll home, eventually ending his marriage. Black feeling remorseful for causing the breakup ran back to the barrens and joined up with the Troll gang. They were mostly small timers but Marjorie the leader saw Black had vision. He climbed the ranks into what is considered a Caporegime. He gave orders to the young initiates, but he wanted more. With no considerable future in the gang he parted ways, into the shadows. He connected with a Fixer named Sarge that he could buy drugs from wholesale, but he still wanted something different.
Haha man this is quite contrary from what I'm used to doing anymore. Trying to make someone believe in a character is hard work.
Again please give criticism and feedback thanks.
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You should edit your post to include generation method, karma / point distribution, and gear, yes.
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Better? This took forever...
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Do you know already, in which table you will play? The one difference between 1e and 5e is that karma costs to rise your attributes are 5x new value. Guidelines of karma rewards from 1e have not changed. That's why your character is almost similar character after first 50 karma (8 runs).
Moreover, how difficult are your first enemies? If they are archetype characters from the corebook, you should have at least 12 dices in your primary skills. Even 16 or 18 dices in your combat skill is preferable.
The primary skills for a street samurai (or ex-ganger) are
2 combat skills (automatics + melee)
Sneaking
Perception
My comments below are based on the following rules: Standard karma rewards and first enemies are archetype characters.
1. The skill groups are not generally good. They contain typically 3 skills of which 2 are useful. And the third is seldom needed. That's why it 's cheaper to buy single skills.
Influence: Only useful skill here is etiquette. Negotiation is good but it needs very high pool to be effective. And typically only a face has the needed high linked attribute (charisma).
Firearms: You shoot with only one weapon => one skill is enough. The best here is automatics.
Stealth: I.think that this is the best skill group. But I think that your agility should be higher to get best benefit.
The ability to dodge weapons is based on your reaction and intuition. They should be very high. Moreover, the agility is your best attribute. It's possible to dump other, but I do not recommend at least many 1. A single 1 is possible but I really recommend for new players at least 2 to all attributes.
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So kill off influence? Most of the specialty parts on skills? Its been a really long time since I table topped so I'm trying to do some feet getting wet work again.
I'm running off Chummer 5 I've got the sources for 2e and 4e. Trying to tweak it for an inbetween.
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I'll have to tweak this later today. Ol lady wants me in bed, have to go to doc in a few hours.
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Day Job 10 hrs (Drug Dealer) - you need the SINner quality for the Day Job quality, which makes 'drug dealer' possibly not one you'd go for. Made Man (with the group contact being your gang) would make more sense.
Int 2, Log 3 - I would swap these around, if not go Int 4, Cha 3 (assuming you actually want this), Log 1, and spend the saved karma elsewhere.
Biotech 2 - At Logic 2, I wouldn't. How much do they know about surgery, or working with cyberware / bioware? First Aid 1 + Chemistry 1 would be plenty for a dealer.
Close Combat 5 - They're quite good at all forms of close combat? Most people would pick one, and let skill substitution work out the rest. Clubs is a good choice, as a troll can make almost anything a club, but unarmed and In Debt to afford used titanium bone lacing + 4* striking callus would be quite nasty.
Firearms 3 - ditto close combat. As a troll ganger, you probably didn't learn the finer points of stance and aiming. Automatics would suit, and the Krime Spree was built just for you. (alternatively, the Krime Boss & Longarms ... but I recommend automatics)
Influence 4 - Intimidation will be the main skills expected of troll gangers. Con [fast talk] will be needed from time to time. Etiquette you should have.
Outdoors 4 - good choice.
Stealth 2 - I'd go higher, but you don't have to. Possibly just drop the group to take Sneaking, unless you want to focus on disguises (unlikely) or palming (even more unlikely).
Good pants $50, Good shoes $50, Backpack $100, etc ...
Take a squatter lifestyle. This will include basic clothes, bags, food, entertainment for the month. You can reduce the cost by putting it in a dangerous location (-20%) and making it cramped (-10%).
Bandoleer for shells $650 - how is this so expensive, and what is it? Even the reactive myomer pack doesn't cost this much.
Renraku Sensei $1000 - unless you have a wireless bonus you desperately want to defend, take something cheaper.
Fake Shotgun License(rating 3) $600 - drop this, and keep your guns hidden.
Medkit Supplies $100 - no medkit? Let someone else do it.
Biomonitor $300 - you don't need this - you don't have medical services to alert, and there's no gear that will use it. Get a good respirator instead.
3 doses Deepweed $1200 - go with some cheaper, fun drugs like eX, Aisa, Hurlg, and Push.
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Might want to use Regular Priority A, B, C, D, E for making Troll.. OR the Sum to 10.
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Going solely off the original post...
1. You want to be a hanger but your "hit things" score is low and your "talk" score is at the max. Trolls have some problems talking heir way out of situations due to their low cap on CHA. If you want to be a hanger I would suggest max AGI and higher INT and REA as those improve dodging and perception and initiative
2. The weapon skill groups are poor investments because you can only use one attack action per pass. This creates a lot of redundancy that you are very unlikely to get a return on. It's best to focus on 2 skills (one from each) and get them at high ratings so you can reliably hit. I recommend Automatics and Unarmed.
3. You are just over invested in skill groups in general which results in weak dice pools. Biotech is very low value due to how much better a medkit operating itself will be than you using it. Influence at 8 dice isn't impressive, and as a ganger, my impression is yore a fight guy, so don't try to also be a smooth talker, at least not as a troll. Outdoors is similarly pretty crappy.
4. If you want to be a good fighter you're missing s lot of the good ware used for that role. Initiative enhancement. AGI enhancement. Boosts to soaking. Things that make your unarmed combat hit harder (well, Spurs are ok). A retinal smartlink. Gear like better armor and glasses/contacts/earbuds with vision and audio mods. Etc.
I'd echo what was said above and not build this using karma. In priority, for trolls, a good option is:
A: Meta
B: Resources
C: Attributes
D: Skills
E: Magic
Or flip A and B. Honestly it's hard to build trolls this edition. They're very overcosted for what you get. Having to pay so much for meta is the big problem. If you go low on skills take the Jack of All Trades quality from Run Faster. It will help you pick up more skills easily.
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Picture a cowboy with a strap on his chest that holds all the shotgun shells. Thats what a bandoleer is. I figured 650 would be a decent price on a custom made item for combat situations.
Does the longarms skill still apply to shotguns? It does in 4e but I wasn't sure. I just downloaded a 5e source book so maybe I'll answer my own question in a while.
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Picture a cowboy with a strap on his chest that holds all the shotgun shells. Thats what a bandoleer is. I figured 650 would be a decent price on a custom made item for combat situations.
I'm aware what a bandoleer is, but I thought you were working from gear that exists, rather than throwing money at something with no idea of costs. For comparison;
GEAR ACCESS
This feature allows items to be (stowed or) retrieved from the piece of armor with more ease than usual. Complex actions become Simple, and Simple become Free. Free stays Free, but gamemasters can consider allowing an extra Free Action for the Action Phase.
Modifying your armour with this costs 4 capacity and 150¥. It works with reloading, as well as taking out or putting away other gear. It also negates any positive social modifiers from your armour, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Does the longarms skill still apply to shotguns?
Yes.
Junkyard Jaw (Standard) Ess:0.75 NYN:2,000¥ (DV:Str+3P AP:-6)
Sleep Regulator (Omega) Ess:0.1, NYN:9,000¥ (sleeps for 2d6 hours, causes Disorientation if woken or kept awake longer than 2 days)
Headphones R4 200¥
Select Sound FIlter R4 1000¥
Omnidirectional Mic R3 150¥
Audio Enhancement R1 500¥
Spatial Recogniser 1000¥
Goggles R5 250
Flare Compensation 250¥
Vision Enhancement R3 1500¥
Vision Magnification 250¥
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Uneducated is a brutal disad. I strongly advise something else. Having to make a logic+computer test just to use your Commlink is a very bad thing.
You've got Cyberspurs, you can go with Unarmed (Cyber) instead of Close Combat.
Agility, Intuition, Reaction are your primary stats. Get those as high as you can. Karma gen is pretty stingy though.
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everybody keeps saying autos. I know there are penalties for shotguns but does that outweigh the imagination? lame way to put it but I did want to rp, not just give it up for cold computations.
for the day job thing. is made man the best route for that? My contact doesnt allow me to take made man. I could change it but Puyallup was troll teritory 16 years ago.
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Have a baby in my arms making typing difficult, sorry for any inconvenience reading that last one
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for the day job thing. is made man the best route for that? My contact doesnt allow me to take made man.
Why doesn't your contact allow it? Made Man gives you a Loyalty 3 group contact that you work for / get cheaper gear from. One of the options for group contacts is 'Street Gang'. (Connection 1) You're already part of a gang and dealing drugs ...
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I figured that out after messing with options.
In your op, is karma a dead system i should try a different build?
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In your op, is karma a dead system i should try a different build?
Troll is a tough meta to build and even tougher in Karma. I'd recommend Sum-to-Ten or Priority. As a ganger, high Meta, high Attributes, middling-to-low cash, no special, middling-to-low skills.
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I agree with and recommend following Falar and Whiskey's advice. This is nice but it needs some expansion and focus.
As is, it's reads as fairly dated.
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everybody keeps saying autos. I know there are penalties for shotguns but does that outweigh the imagination?
Shotguns are decent. Especially the Mossberg as it is full auto. But you'll also want a long rifle because of range penalties though, and Longarms covers both. That's why Automatics is often recommended because ARs, SMGs, and even MPs are great with more ranges. But a shotgun on full auto firing wide burst will shred the lightly armored.
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I figured that out after messing with options.
In your op, is karma a dead system i should try a different build?
Point build is supposed to be 800 Karma, so you are shorting yourself by 50 Karma. Sum to ten is better for troll builds that take full advantage of a troll's bonuses to Body and Strength. On the other hand, a troll face build that I did with sum to ten actually came out ahead when I converted it to point build. If you see this guy as weak for a troll, but smarter, faster, and more agile than usual, then point build won't disadvantage you too much.
I think the bigger problem is that, frankly, it looks like a previous edition build, from when a lot of those skill groups were individual skills, and when attributes were far less important. Skills have been devalued - some have been broken down into components (firearms became pistols, long arms, and automatics), some used to be tests you didn't need a skill for (assensing, perception, using gymnastics to dodge), and lots of new, fiddly little skills have been added. So being "good" at having skills takes more game resources, which comes at the expense of things like attributes (the other component of dice pools) and augmentations (which can give bonuses to dice pools or give you more-than-metahuman ability).
A skill guy is still viable, and the bounty hunter archetype is a decent example of what a skill-focused troll looks like, but I am not sure whether you were aware that you were making a skills guy. It does come at the expense of having less than the usual troll badassery.
The problem with replacing day job with made man is that the former is a negative quality, while the latter is a positive quality.
Automatics may be versatile, but the pistols and longarms skills are both fine. For longarms, you can have a sawed-off shotgun for concealability, shotguns or battle rifles for short to mid range, and sniper rifles for long distance.
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The problem with replacing day job with made man is that the former is a negative quality, while the latter is a positive quality.
That's more of an excuse than a problem. After aggressively ditching unnecessary skill groups, the karma will be there.
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For a Troll Ganger, here is what I would do, and why:
Sum to 10: Attributes(4), Metatype(4), Skills(2), Resources(0), Magic(0)
Attributes
Body 9
Agility 4
Reaction 4
Strength 8
Willpower 5
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Charisma 4
Edge 6
This Attribute selection gives you high Composure and Judge Intentions Dice Pools. Also gives Higher than normal Stun and Physical Damage Tracks
Qualities
Guts
First Impression
School of Hard Knocks
Creature of Comfort(10pt)
Did You Just Call Me Dumb?
In Debt (2pt, 10K Nuyen)
SINner (Criminal) or some combination of Poor Self Control, Addiction, Prejudice
Skills
Blades or Clubs (Your Favorite Type +2) 1
Pistols (Your Favorite Type Here +2) 3
Unarmed Combat 6
Perception (Visual +2) 2
Intimidation (Physical +2) 6
Etiquette (Street +2) 1
Leadership (Rally +2) 3
Athletics Skill Group 2
with Karma (2pt each skill at Rating 1) I would also get:
Negotiation 1 (Raise it later with Karma if you want, use Edge if you Really must get the Sale price)
Throwing Weapons 1 (For Grenades, Dwarves, ect..)
Palming 1 (Hiding that gun you have when Knight Errant pulls you over for driving while Troll)
Animal Handling 1 (Nice Hellhound...)
Pilot Ground Craft 1 (If you have ride... or if you plan to "Borrow" one..)
Use some Karma for Resources.
I think this the best way to start out a character, and I think it fits the character concept. Your a Ganger, you don't have much money, or if you do, it's only very recently.. Having Edge 6, helps tremendously, more than any single piece of Cyberware/Bioware you can get.. 6 dice and Rule of 6, 6 times a session (give or take, depending on GM/Qualities/ect)
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Sorry for the inactivity the past couple days. Two newborns and a full time job are a handful. I think I have a character pretty well fleshed out but I have a couple of questions.
1. I don't see my Ini roll going above 8+1d6 any idea? I'm using the chummer5 build.
2. I played with a gm that allowed a Lined coat to hide weapons, and was wondering if that could apply here?
3. What is the limit panel? I've been trying to mess with it but don't really understand the concept.
4. If I chose the Sinner quality what would I use as the value?
Again I'm sorry about not keeping up with this but I am almost done unveiling this new runner
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Sorry for the inactivity the past couple days. Two newborns and a full time job are a handful. I think I have a character pretty well fleshed out but I have a couple of questions.
1. I don't see my Ini roll going above 8+1d6 any idea? I'm using the chummer5 build.
2. I played with a gm that allowed a Lined coat to hide weapons, and was wondering if that could apply here?
3. What is the limit panel? I've been trying to mess with it but don't really understand the concept.
4. If I chose the Sinner quality what would I use as the value?
Again I'm sorry about not keeping up with this but I am almost done unveiling this new runner
1. Cram and Psyche, or more 'ware.
2. Lined Coats give a bonus to concealment, several other armors from Run and Gun do as well if you have that book.
3. Limits are part of the core dice rolling mechanic in 5th edition. See p. 46, but essentially your Limit is the max number of hits you can have regardless of your dice pool and what you roll.
4. Sinner comes in a four grades. Criminal, National, Corp limited, and Corp. Each has a different value and some slightly different limitations. For a Ganger Criminal makes the most sense, but your background story could dictate otherwise.
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1. I don't see my Ini roll going above 8+1d6 any idea? I'm using the chummer5 build.
Drugs, man, drugs. Get you some Jazz and Psyche and it'll all be good.
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I'm sure those would be great help for that.
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So here goes nothing. I used the Sum to ten build with an A, A, E, C, E build. Man... I really like the Karma system.
Street Name: Black Bart
Bod 9
Agi 4 Rea 5
Str 8 Cha 2(3) Added 1 point+15 Karma
Int 5 Log 4
Wil 3 Edge 6
Phys Cond 13 Stun Cond 10
Initiative 10+1d
Armor 15 Ess 5.62
Nuyen Remaining 1,181 Composure 6
Judge 8 Lift 17
Memory 7 Movement 8/16
Qualities
Positive
City Slicker
Home ground (Puyallup)
Jack of all trades
Thermo Vision (Natural)
Negative
In Debt II
Predjudiced (Common, Outspoken) (Humans)
SINner (Criminal) (Charles Earl Bowles)
Slow Healer
Contacts
Marjorie Gang Leader Puyallup (2/2)
Caleb Beat Cop Seattle (2/3)
Sarge Fixer Penumbra (3/1)
Skills (I tried to take advice of everybody and stayed away from over indulging skill points, and I'm not entirely sure how to write it here.
Athletics 2 Ettiquette 5(7) (street)
Intimidation 8 Longarms 10
Negotiation 4 Palming 5
Perception 7(9) (Visual) Pilot Ground Craft 6
Pistols 5(7) (Semi-Autos) Unarmed 10
Knowledge Skills
Street Drugs 10 Gangs 9
Area Knowledge Seattle (Puyallup) 9(11) Ettiquette (Police) 8
Cyberware
Spurs (Used)
Lifestyle Squatter
Troll Club House 1 month 350
Cramped -10% Dangerous Area -20% Metatype +100%
Gear/Armor/Weapons
Armor
Lined Coat (11) Forearm Guards (3)
Attachable Gear Access Gel Packs
Gel Packs
Good pants (synth leather) Good shoes
Cheap socks Cheap undergarments
Cheap shirt Cheap gloves
Weapons
Ares Viper Slivergun Defiance T-250, Short Barrel
(Sound Suppressor part of base weapon) Hip Pad Bracing System
Hidden Gun Arm Slide
Smartgun Sys (Internal)
Gear
Goggles (Rating 3) Earbuds (Rating 3)
Flare Comp Audio Enhancement (Rating 2)
Low LIght Spatial Recognizer
Vision Enhancement (Rating 3)
Smartlink
Backpack (Cheap)
Can of spray paint (Dark Blue) Can of spray paint (Black)
Lighter 10 packs of Ultra-Lux brand cigarettes
Liter Canteen
4 hits Asia 3 hits Jazz
4 hits Red Mescal 5 hits cram
5 hits Hurlg 4 hits Push
4 hits Novacoke 2 hits Betameth
2 Dreamchips 1 Moodchip
1 Personaflix 2 Tripchips
Pocket Notebook (Keeps separate track of deals and money owed)
Metalink Commlink
Browse
40 Flechette Rounds (Heavy Pistols)
30 Shells Regular Ammo (Shotgun)
Certified Credstick (Standard) $1000
Vehicle
Harley Scorpion
Being born and not being wanted has it's downfalls. Especially when you're in the blight in one of the worst cities in the world. Tacoma was a great place, if you were normal. Puyallup was not. It was home of rats, disease, starvation and anyone who couldn't make it in Seattle. Black Bart was born here, his parents ditched him as soon as he could walk. Life for a troll isn't glamorous. Especially with a policlub branding you the devil, or the son of said deity. He was beaten to the edge of death, but a fresh young badge named Caleb Gafferty came to his aide. Caleb broke protocol and brought young Black Bart to his home in suburban Seattle. It cost Caleb his friends, his wife and almost his job bring the "Trog" home. Caleb showed Black Bart how to shoot a gun, how to make an honest living. But that didn't suit Black. He would never be better than a "Trog" to anyone. So he broke into a liquor store and drank himself to sleep in it. LoneStar showed up and roughed him up exclaiming "He was so drunk we almost died in there." Black spent 3 years in a cell, brandished with the name Charles Bowles.
The day he got out he went back to Puyallup, and inquired into joining with the Troll gang "Forever Tacoma" He got in after getting his ass beat a few times. He rose in rank not soon after, becoming second Lieutenant to Marjorie. For a Troll she didn't look half bad, if horns, and muscles as big as a breeders head is your thing. But he wanted out of the normal gang life. So he became a freelance and connected with a fixer, Sarge. "I'll get you anything you could dream of, but just remember. I don't know you from Adam, if the wrong person comes looking for you."
Two months have passed and now I'm in deep with some heavy hands.
"Fuck I've gotta make more then what I am selling this shit."
I oughta call Sarge and see if he knows where I can get some work.
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I think you did you contact wrong. Looks like you have a group contact. Does your shadowrunning team share this? That's what the group is supposed to represent. Usually you earn group contacts after character generation, unless the GM has something in mind.
Confused about your note under charisma. It costs 15 karma OR 1 build point to raise an attribute from 2 to 3. Looks like you might have been confused there. If you can't afford the point, having a charisma of 2 only lowers one applicable skill down one point, not really a loss.
I like this character a lot. Makes sense, pretty powerful, and looks like fun to play.
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Gc is Tacoma Forever gang with Marj as main Contact.
On chummer I put one karma point and off to the side it put a big 15 so I'm gonna guess 15 BP
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It costs 15 karma to raise an attribute from 2 to 3. There aren't really any all-purpose build points in Priority - just separate points to assign to skills, attributes, special attributes, etc.
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Yea it was 15 karma
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OK then you need to have 2 different entries for your contacts, one is for the gang itself, the other is for the gang leader. If you don't want a different one for the leader, just omit her. You can't get favors, and you need to still be associated with that group, if I remember correctly, too.
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I'll fix that, chummer isn't adding armor for synth leather on pants. Does that even apply or can I take my money back?