Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Rooks on <02-10-16/0140:51>
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so taking a look at things :
A restricted item can be purchased, owned, and
transported only under special circumstances. You are
allowed to purchase and own a gun with the requisite
firearms permit, and you can carry it with you with a
special concealed carry permit.
looking at spare clip I dont need a permit looking at extended clip I need a permit for that ammo I need a permit for ammo
do you really need a permit for each and every piece of R equipment?
I understand a permit to cast spells and conceal carry or bounty hunting and well drivers license, well most vehicles have no restriction on them
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Its something where there simply isn't a "right" answer, at best it's something we can tell you to talk to the GM about as personal preference, location and house rules can have major impacts on the answer.
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In my games, I don't use licenses because I feel like they just bog things down. I have them exist as an abstract part of fake SINs, and have my players tell me roughly what each of their fake SINs is. A bodyguard? A KE detective? A debugger? We then assume that that SIN has all the requisite licenses they'd need to perform any of their primary functions.
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Whenever it comes up I just work it that they need a license for the category of item they're carrying, like firearms or software, kinda like it works in real life. I find this is a nice middle ground that doesn't require a list a mile long only to realize that someone forgot to get a license for one item out of a hundred.
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That's my method as well, witchdoctor. They can have a Firearms license to own/openly carry a gun, a concealed permit to legally conceal one (if they aren't that good at concealing or going through scanners with it frequently). They can have a Magic license, or a drug license, or a 'ware license for the Restricted stuff there.
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Having a separate license for every piece of equipment is getting too much into bean-counting, and is obnoxiously expensive.
I mean, I know we rag on these all the time, but the pregen characters all use basically "grouped" licenses. You have a "restricted ware" license, not a separate one for your WR and one for your muscle toner and one for your pain editor, etc.
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I think it depends on the circles you travel. If you're following the stereotype and "running in the shadows" then you may not ever get carded by the authorities anyway. In which case there's no sense in having licenses anyway, if nobody is asking for them.
But there may come a day when you have to do something in a much more secure neighborhood. And if you don't have licenses (even fake ones) then it's going to be pretty tough to get all your toys in the door. Tough, but not impossible, and it drives the adventure along. Do you try and talk the Johnson into funding / providing your licenses? Do you buy them yourselves? Do you find some other way of getting your toys inside?
It's all part of the game.
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One problem here lies in how the Chummer generator handled licenses in the previous edition (haven't seen how the 5th ed version works). It did the 'one item, one license' method, and that can easily lead someone to believe that that is how it's 'intended' to be.
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One problem here lies in how the Chummer generator handled licenses in the previous edition (haven't seen how the 5th ed version works). It did the 'one item, one license' method, and that can easily lead someone to believe that that is how it's 'intended' to be.
Well, that is kinda how it's supposed to work, if you get licenses.
If you purchase an Ares Predator, you have to get a license for it. If you specifically load APDS ammo, you need a separate license for that. If you want to carry it concealed, that's yet another separate license. So for you to walk into a secure facility with a concealed Predator loaded with APDS, you need to present 3x licenses if questioned.
Now the GM could say that you purchased a Pistol license, and you're allowed to carry several different pistols under that umbrella. Or maybe your APDS license covers your pistol, and your rifle, and your SMG. Or maybe your concealed carry authorizes your guns and your sword. If you stretch the rules a little like this, then players won't have to spend 1/2 their money on gear, and the other 1/2 on licenses for all that gear.
And as I said before, if your characters spend all their time in the Barrens, there's no real motivation to get licenses anyway. Which saves them money at the moment, but will make it very hard to do that job next week when they need to get into a downtown high rise.
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The way I do it is have my players get professional licenses which allow the usage and possession/carry of certain items. That way it doesn't bugged down too much.
In a way I can understand why an extended clip would be restricted. Carrying a normal pistol with the standard load could be seen simply as a self-defense measure while carrying an extended clip shows you are up to no good
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The way I do it is have my players get professional licenses which allow the usage and possession/carry of certain items. That way it doesn't bugged down too much.
In a way I can understand why an extended clip would be restricted. Carrying a normal pistol with the standard load could be seen simply as a self-defense measure while carrying an extended clip shows you are up to no good
Which could work, sometimes. A licensed cyber security professional can walk into Best Buy and purchase a Cyberdeck off the shelf. If you're a licensed night watchman who patrols neighborhoods, you could get away with a basic pistol. But that's not going to justify the armor piercing ammo, or the rest of the weapons you're carrying. Now someone in Special Forces could get away with that sort of stuff; but only when performing official functions within a designated combat zone. You're not going to get away with wearing full battle rattle and a full combat load in the middle of downtown.
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If you stretch the rules a little like this, then players won't have to spend 1/2 their money on gear, and the other 1/2 on licenses for all that gear.
If the rules require you to spend half your money on licenses to carry the gear they get, those are bad rules.
How does requiring individualized licenses impact playability in a positive manner?
I say it doesn't, so it shouldn't exist. This is a game, not a reality simulator.
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It reflects the authoritarian setting. (https://youtu.be/HFS83CQXVkg?t=3s) When you have to provide your SIN and licenses in order to get into certain places, it presents another challenge for the team to overcome.
Maybe they purchase all the right (looking) paperwork, and they walk in unhindered. Maybe the Decker hacks the scanner and makes it show approval. Maybe they smuggle all their illicit gear in through the backdoor or something. Or maybe they just start shooting as soon as the alarm sounds. (https://youtu.be/iuslUzbJEaw?t=1m23s)
From your tone, I'm guessing you're also not a big fan of having people spend rather large amounts of money on fake SINs, especially purchasing several backups just in case. Even though that's also pretty stereotypical for the setting. (http://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-international-spy-briefcase-filled-with-assorted-nationality-passports-cell-phones-and-money-22138219.jpg)
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As much as I normally disagree with Whiskeyjack, in this case he's completely right.
Really, it would be better for most for fake IDs and licenses to be rolled into lifestyle. Those are among the most important things for a Runner, so they should just be assumed to be present (within reason of course, meaning no having fifteen fake SINs that look real and umpteen dozen licenses on each one).
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So how do you judge that then? What is an acceptable number of fake SINs? What if someone wants fifteen false identities since their character concept is a world renowned master of disguise. Maybe they were an intelligence operative, with fully fleshed out cover stories in case other national entities tried checking. That means they get 15x Rating 6 SINs with appropriate licenses, for the price of rent and groceries? I don't think so...
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There's an easier method. Roll in a 'Lifestyle SIN' to your Lifestyle. It is the one you use to buy groceries, the name on your rent checks, the one you have on you out in town when not working, etc. Multiple Lifestyles, multiple Lifestyle SINs. You have other fake SINs to use on the job.
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There's an easier method. Roll in a 'Lifestyle SIN' to your Lifestyle. It is the one you use to buy groceries, the name on your rent checks, the one you have on you out in town when not working, etc. Multiple Lifestyles, multiple Lifestyle SINs. You have other fake SINs to use on the job.
And is this default Lifestyle SIN the one that has a registered firearm associated with the home address? The one that is a licensed heavy weapons expert authorized to carry military grade ammunition around town? The one that the cops will come looking for when shit hits the fan anywhere in town? Or is this default SIN just a cheap Rating 1 meant to barely pass inspection.
All the rest of that stuff is still going to require more expensive cover documents which need to be purchased separately if you want to look the part. Otherwise you may as well not have any kind of SIN at all, and suffer the consequences if and when they arise. Which is why the books say most Runners are SINless, and pay their rent in cash.
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All you're doing is illustrating the problems inherent in bothering to have any of that at all. The absolute best way to handle such is a little term I first heard on these boards "hand-wavium".
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Which is fine. You don't *need* to purchase SINs or licenses. You can run in the shadows without them. But... if anyone questions you carrying all those weapons and such, you won't have any excuse.
If you hand wave SINs and licenses, you're completely invalidating the whole point of "running in the shadows". Suddenly everything you do is legal. You're no longer independent hired mercenaries working for the highest bidder. Now you're no better than Knight Errant or Lonestar.
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Which is fine. You don't *need* to purchase SINs or licenses. You can run in the shadows without them. But... if anyone questions you carrying all those weapons and such, you won't have any excuse.
If you hand wave SINs and licenses, you're completely invalidating the whole point of "running in the shadows". Suddenly everything you do is legal. You're no longer independent hired mercenaries working for the highest bidder. Now you're no better than Knight Errant or Lonestar.
Unfortunately, that way only functions if they aren't included in the rule book. It's a pointless addition that creates a 'tax' on just about every character, but 'hand waving' can't be done while they're present.
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And if you ignore them completely, it completely alters "legality" throughout the universe. Toddlers taking grenades and rocket launchers to school. Angry wageslaves taking out their road rage on each other with up-armored Humvees sporting machine gun turrets. Argumentative Redditors hacking the shit out of each other with their store bought Cyberdecks.
If you simply ignore the repercussions of having some things (R)estricted to licensed personnel, or (F)orbidden for civilian use, then Cthulhu wins.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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Say it with me, All4BigGuns: "In my opinion."
I like the added complexity SINs and licenses bring to a game. At our table, these things doesn't make for just a "tax", or "a pointless addition". To us, the challenge of keeping track of which ID you used on which run so you know which ones might be burned doesn't detract from the game, they add to it. Granted, it may not be for everyone, but neither is keeping accurate count of rounds used in order to restock, or keeping track of how long your flyspy has been airborne so you know when it'll run out of fuel.
All I'm asking is that you stop being so bombastic in your statements and just voice your opinions as just that. Or, to use a term you yourself seem quite fond of; stop trying to tell me how to play the game...
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And if you ignore them completely, it completely alters "legality" throughout the universe. Toddlers taking grenades and rocket launchers to school. Angry wageslaves taking out their road rage on each other with up-armored Humvees sporting machine gun turrets. Argumentative Redditors hacking the shit out of each other with their store bought Cyberdecks.
If you simply ignore the repercussions of having some things (R)estricted to licensed personnel, or (F)orbidden for civilian use, then Cthulhu wins.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
You are right they use tasers and morgan thunder clouds instead :P
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ca/70/5c/ca705cb56a535a04b6c162cfa1b97a8d.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/df/b2/dd/dfb2dda47c5d3b30cfbf7af2e479df8b.jpg)
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I like the added complexity SINs and licenses bring to a game. At our table, these things doesn't make for just a "tax", or "a pointless addition". To us, the challenge of keeping track of which ID you used on which run so you know which ones might be burned doesn't detract from the game, they add to it. Granted, it may not be for everyone, but neither is keeping accurate count of rounds used in order to restock, or keeping track of how long your flyspy has been airborne so you know when it'll run out of fuel.
Same here. If you don't keep track of fake SINs and licenses, then you probably shouldn't keep track of ammo, grenades used, drams of regs, etc. Which is also a viable game and faster, but not necessarily the same thing. Shadowrun 5e has so many different items for sale, that it seems the game is intended towards a minutiae-oriented style. It can be played with a lot of generalization and hand-waving away details, but that hardly seems like the most likely intention of the writers given how much detail they put into equipment rather than just putting a single "papers" item.
But a game where they put a single "papers" item would likely also have a single "increased speed cyberware" item at different rankings, also, and I think most of us prefer the complexity of mixing and matching your cyberware, bioware, spells, foci, decks, programs, drones, weapons, etc.