Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: odd on <02-14-16/1906:36>
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I have a few questions I don't know the answer to:
What can someone astrally projecting do to:
A mundane
An awakened, non-perceiving/project person
An astrally perceiving awakened
Dual Natured being
I think the answers are:
A mundane - Nothing
An awakened, non-perceiving/project person - Nothing
An astrally perceiving awakened - Mana based spells (and they could do them back)
Dual Natured being - Mana based spells (and they could do them back)
But I'm not positive and don't have referencs. I've searched before, but didn't have any luck.
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You're correct on all counts.
However, if you're projecting, you still see the auras of living things around you, Awakened or not, and can use Assensing to read these auras for information. I believe you can also eavesdrop and hear the emotional content of a conversation (hearing the actual words would be fairly broken).
You can also attack activated foci with spells on the astral, as they're dual-natured when turned on; doing so ends up turning them off.
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Sweet, thanks whiskey (for this and all the other newbie help). Is there a spot that spells it out? I'll add to wiki.
Follow up question, to hit the foci, would it need to be a physical damaging spell?
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Sweet, thanks whiskey (for this and all the other newbie help). Is there a spot that spells it out? I'll add to wiki.
Let me go look for a cite.
Follow up question, to hit the foci, would it need to be a physical damaging spell?
No, Stunbolt/Manabolt would do
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You're correct on all counts.
However, if you're projecting, you still see the auras of living things around you, Awakened or not, and can use Assensing to read these auras for information. I believe you can also eavesdrop and hear the emotional content of a conversation (hearing the actual words would be fairly broken).
You can also attack activated foci with spells on the astral, as they're dual-natured when turned on; doing so ends up turning them off.
Do you have a source for "damaging a Foci's Astral Form turns it off"? Cus otherwise the only way that works RAW is via Counterspell. You deactivate the Focus, which causes the Astral Form to disappear back into the item, and the Mage has to return to their body to reactivate it.
Also, I don't think you can overhear a conversation. The most you're going to get out of spying on people is their emotional state via their aura color.
For OP, the books outright say what happens on the Astral, stays on the Astral. You cannot interact with the physical world in any way. You cannot interact with mundane folks, nor with Awakened who are not at least Perceiving. If they are Perceiving, they gain an Astral Form but it's directly tied to their Physical Form. Which some GMs may let you cinematically damage and manipulate like typical ghost movies where someone develops claw marks before being dragged up the wall and pinned to the ceiling.
And unless Whiskey has a source on that damage stuff, the easiest way to disarm someone wielding a Focus is rolling Counterspell to turn it off. Older editions used to allow people to target the Astral Form of the Focus, and have the damage carry across to the other side. So someone could be wandering with an active amulet or something, and suddenly get hit by a Manabolt out of nowhere. But SR5 doesn't do that anymore.
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And unless Whiskey has a source on that damage stuff, the easiest way to disarm someone wielding a Focus is rolling Counterspell to turn it off. Older editions used to allow people to target the Astral Form of the Focus, and have the damage carry across to the other side. So someone could be wandering with an active amulet or something, and suddenly get hit by a Manabolt out of nowhere. But SR5 doesn't do that anymore.
I could be reading in old mechanics, yeah.
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AFB: The foci bit is under the artificing chapter of the CRB, and goes into how an astral attack shuts down a foci.
When observing the physical from the astral, all that ever crosses over the 'viel' is the emotional content. Thus observing a conversation from the astral between a man and woman: you could tell that they are pissed, and may know it has something to do with sex.... but the fact that the woman was cheating, wouldn't be clear....
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AFB: The foci bit is under the artificing chapter of the CRB, and goes into how an astral attack shuts down a foci.
Page and quote? Cus all I'm seeing is that if you Project with an active Focus, and you take enough damage to get knocked unconscious, then the Focus will deactivate and the Astral Form will disappear. I'm still not seeing anything that expressly says "If you deal X damage to the Focus, it will deactivate."
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Quick addendum: the OP is correct on all counts, provided normal conditions. However, there are places known as Astral Shallows, in which there really isn't any veil between the physical and the astral. Even mundanes can see astral forms and auras in those places. The Wuxing Skytower in Hong Kong has the largest and most stable known astral shallow in existence, IIRC.
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Can't a dual-natured creature also physically attack purely Astral creatures (even astral projecting), using Astral combat? (forget for the moment about Astral movement and the ludicrousness of the skill)
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Can't a dual-natured creature also physically attack purely Astral creatures (even astral projecting), using Astral combat? (forget for the moment about Astral movement and the ludicrousness of the skill)
Core pg 315, Astral Combat
Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Astral Combat + Willpower to fight wholly astral entities.
Yes, you can go hand to hand with an unmanifested Spirit. Provided it stays within melee range. As soon as it flies away (which is very easy to do since there is no Astral gravity) then they will be out of reach unless you can physically fly after them somehow.
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You can manifest and moon people.
Depending on the person this may lead to mental scarring and possible sanity checks.
-k
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Worst case of Asstral Projection ever. :P
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Can a manifesting person cast spells at meat space?
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Can a manifesting person cast spells at meat space?
No, you are still on the astral and restricted to astral actions. You are basically just a psychic image there.
Back in the old days there was a thing called grounding whereby a projecting mage could drop physical spells down a foci or even a projecting body and have them go off in meat space, but that has been long since removed.
Good times though....
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Grounding was horrendously overpowered. Magician astrally projects from the safety of his command bunker, finds the aura of the intruders, then grounds a couple fireball spells through them. Boom; toasty runners.
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Grounding was horrendously overpowered. Magician astrally projects from the safety of his command bunker, finds the aura of the intruders, then grounds a couple fireball spells through them. Boom; toasty runners.
Well, remember it was not just anyone's aura, you needed someone/something being dual natured to form the necessary bridge to shove that spell down the pipe with.
So you couldn't do it too some mundane mooks or even a normal mage by himself, even if he was casting as it was considered too brief a window.
But Foci were fair game and a projecting mage who wasn't operating from a ward could put the team at risk.
Course by the time Shapeshifters were allowed as PCs in later editions, grounding was pretty much gone though some tables still had it, which would have made life for those hanging around with a dual natured Shifter teammate veeerry interesting if kind of short.
Gave new meaning to the term hotdogs when grounding out through a Wolf Shifter. ;)
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The 2050s (German) book brought grounding back (it's removal is explained with raising mana levels that have strengthened the barriers between the astral and mundane world)
Nowadays, you just need ritual magic and a trusted spirit as spotter to fry someone from the security of your home.
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Can I mana bolt a manifesting guy? What about astrally punching him with astral combat (without perceiving). The book says it's a psychic connection only, so I feel I can't but want to make sure.
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Grounding was horrendously overpowered. Magician astrally projects from the safety of his command bunker, finds the aura of the intruders, then grounds a couple fireball spells through them. Boom; toasty runners.
Well, remember it was not just anyone's aura, you needed someone/something being dual natured to form the necessary bridge to shove that spell down the pipe with.
So you couldn't do it too some mundane mooks or even a normal mage by himself, even if he was casting as it was considered too brief a window.
But Foci were fair game and a projecting mage who wasn't operating from a ward could put the team at risk.
Course by the time Shapeshifters were allowed as PCs in later editions, grounding was pretty much gone though some tables still had it, which would have made life for those hanging around with a dual natured Shifter teammate veeerry interesting if kind of short.
Gave new meaning to the term hotdogs when grounding out through a Wolf Shifter. ;)
You're not thinking enough.
1: summon force 1 spirit.
2: send it to mundane target.
3: command it manifest
4: nuke spirit with overcast fireball from the safety of astral.
Trust me.
As my GM says: I'M the reason they removed grounding :P
PS Marcus Gedeon(sp): still away from DTF or ebooks for your quote. But I can tell you its in the artificing section of the CRB if you get closer to a book before me. (FWIW: was mostly useless. An attack on a foci from the astral deactivated the foci. Nothing more. No damage to the holder of the foci. And yes, he could activate it again next turn.)
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Can I mana bolt a manifesting guy? What about astrally punching him with astral combat (without perceiving). The book says it's a psychic connection only, so I feel I can't but want to make sure.
No, and no.
When a Mage tries to manifest, they are just projecting a mental image of themselves across from the Astral. There is absolutely no substance to their form. It's like ghost Obi-Wan. Your Manabolt doesn't have anything to strike, nor do your fists, b/c you aren't Dual Natured at the time. If you were Dual Natured, you could do either of those things b/c at that point you would exist on the Astral as well. Your Manabolt and fists would strike their Astral Form directly. Note that if you cast a Manaball while Dual Natured, you need to decide whether you're casting it in the real world or the Astral. When it explodes into the AOE damage, it will only hurt one side or the other. You can't cast a Manaball and have it hurt both mundane people and Astral Mages at the same time.
PS Marcus Gideon: still away from DTF or ebooks for your quote. But I can tell you its in the artificing section of the CRB if you get closer to a book before me. (FWIW: was mostly useless. An attack on a foci from the astral deactivated the foci. Nothing more. No damage to the holder of the foci. And yes, he could activate it again next turn.)
Core pg 307, Disenchanting
The Disenchanting skill allows the magician to temporarily disrupt or even unweave astral constructs.
To deactivate an active focus, make an Opposed Disenchanting + Magic [Astral] v. target’s Force + owner’s Magic Test. You can do this from the physical or astral plane, though you must have line of sight to the focus. If you get more successes on the test, the focus deactivates.
With the Disenchanting skill, a focus can be effectively recycled, as a portion of the freed mana can recharge spent reagents. To break a focus down into reagents and totally destroy it, a magician must have touch contact with it. Breaking down a focus requires an Opposed Disenchanting + Magic [Astral] v. target’s Force (+ owner’s Magic if bonded and if the focus isn’t yours) Test.
This isn't a magical attack with a Manabolt spell. This is a particular application of the Disenchanting skill. You can either attempt to deactivate a Focus, either from the real world or from the Astral by targeting the Astral Form of the Focus. Or you can attempt to completely destroy the Focus, rendering it inert and extracting Reagents from it. But that can only be done in the real world, with the item in hand, and requires (Force) hours to perform.
And if you deactivate someone's Astral Form Weapon Focus, they can't just turn it back on. They have to return to their body first.
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Yep. That was what I was thinking about.