Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: PiXeL01 on <02-16-16/2049:18>
-
If this has been discussed before then please delete.
I was looking through the stats on Melee weapons and then it struck me, why would anyone use anything but a combat knife (other than style of course and that goes a long way!).
It is 100% legal which means you can carry it anywhere since you don't need a permit, it's concealable, it's cheap and the stats themselves are amazing.
So why use anything else especially if talking black trenchcoat?
-
Wait, you mean people are NOT taking a combat knife as a weapon of last resort?!?
WTF is wrong with them????? Its cheap! Its legal! Its useful!
-
I carry plastisteel / Diakote ruby knife
-
Can I have Ruby's Knife? (http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Ruby%27s_Knife) :D
-
I always have a knife on me, for utility if I don't have the edged skill. I go with an extendable baton when I have the clubs skill.
-
Does anyone else feel the combat knife stats are too high to leave room for other concealable fancy melee options?
I don't know much about the difference between a ka-bar fighting knife (combat knife) or bowie knife (short cougar fineblade) or whatever turkey carving attachment the vibroknife resembles, but it seems a little odd that the best and cheapest options of the three are one and the same.
-
Those were my thoughts exactly. Especially the AP value is a bit concerning.
-
Those were my thoughts exactly. Especially the AP value is a bit concerning.
Especially as I think even an activated Vibro-Knife at best matches a combat knife. Aren't Vibro-Weapons supposed to be amazing at penetrating armor? That is after all the reason they're usually 'invented'... but the knife is sub-par to the Combat Knife andnthe Blade can't match the Monosword...
-
Why care about legal issues when the knife can't be found? I personally love the Sapphire knife. Accuracy is a little bit worse, but a personalised grip fixes that for ya. Unarmed is also a great solution for street samurai, especially since Striking Callus and Sharkskin were introduced. Along with martial arts you can ruin someone's day big time.
-
I agree with you except on the point about martial arts. They're generally not vey good.
-
Not very good is not the same as bad.
An optimized disarm and counterstrike build can generate some serious hurt
Likewise a combat knife (weapon focus) and Pentjak Silat make for a seriously deadly combination.
-
Yep; the combat knife is a great investment for any character, blades skill or not. Never know when you might need a cutting implement for utility purposes, and the combat knife is an even better investment with a point or two in blades.
-
Restricted just means you need to have a fake license to show if you're stopped by the Star. And if you're wearing a lined coat or similar, then a katana is easy enough to conceal. But usually when I go for a character focused on bladecraft, I end up with 4-8 bladed weapons on my person at any one time, as well as a pistol or two. Sure, I only have the two hands, but sometimes I get excitable as to choice. And yeah, a combat knife is one of the options I bring, but it isn't the be all end all of blades. Sometimes you want more reach. Sometimes you need more AP. Or the higher base damage of other blades. Sure, a combat knife is a good desperation weapon, but in all the times I've played a melee-focused character, I've never had to draw my knife. Rule #1 of winning a knife fight: Don't get into a knife fight.
-
My 3 blades on my current character (blade based melee adept) is 2 combat knives, weapon focus (currently at +2) katana, sword (wakazashi), and a claymore (nadochi) for when ap and raw damage are needed. But yeah, the combat knifes stats are to good for it price, availability, and lack of restriction.
-
My 3 blades on my current character (blade based melee adept) is 2 combat knives, weapon focus (currently at +2) katana, sword (wakazashi), and a claymore (nadochi) for when ap and raw damage are needed. But yeah, the combat knifes stats are to good for it price, availability, and lack of restriction.
I count 5 there?
-
Yup, with only the claymor and sword being the ones I leave if need be.
-
Let's see, in 4e, one of my characters routinely carried: a katana (Weapon focus), a sword (wakizashi), twin vibroblade swords, twin Cougar Fineblade Long Blades, a Combat Knife, a Survival knife, Victorinox Memory Blade, and two pistols (either Yamaha Sakura Fubukis or Nemesis Arms Praetorians, one loaded with EXEX, the other with SnS). Also had a sword cane, for fancy shindigs, twin forearm snap-blades, and when he was really expecting trouble, a set of six Flashbang and six Thermal Smoke grenades. The Flashbangs he typically tossed blindly around a corner or into an enclosed space, while the thermal smoke he would drop at his feet and use an Ultrasound or ultrawideband radar sensor, or switch to astral sight.
-
Those were my thoughts exactly. Especially the AP value is a bit concerning.
...found the Riposte technique to be rather useful especially if you have a character with a high initiative and decent pool..
-
...my namesake adept KK carries 3 blades, a Katana (WF), Wakizashi, and a Sapphire Knife (as Hard Targets is finally legal for Missions).
-
Only 3, :'(
Oh, I forgot the survival knife in my list as well, but that is not for combat. I also generally have 2 Remington Suppressors (one with SnS and other with either normal rounds or EX) and when expecting lots of trouble my FN-HAR. The Rapid Draw power has made my life so much easier, cause now I can just drop and switch mid fight so much easier, and my FN-HAR has a sling so dropping is not an issue really.
-
If this has been discussed before then please delete.
I was looking through the stats on Melee weapons and then it struck me, why would anyone use anything but a combat knife (other than style of course and that goes a long way!).
It is 100% legal which means you can carry it anywhere since you don't need a permit, it's concealable, it's cheap and the stats themselves are amazing.
So why use anything else especially if talking black trenchcoat?
Two Reasons:
1. Heavy load out when you're already packing a grenade launcher, may as well grab the largest weapon you can carry.
2. Style.
Mechanically, yes, Combat Knife and Sapphire Knife are no brainer picks for any 'runner with a Blades skill.
-
Only 3, :'(
Oh, I forgot the survival knife in my list as well, but that is not for combat. I also generally have 2 Remington Suppressors (one with SnS and other with either normal rounds or EX) and when expecting lots of trouble my FN-HAR. The Rapid Draw power has made my life so much easier, cause now I can just drop and switch mid fight so much easier, and my FN-HAR has a sling so dropping is not an issue really.
...that's just blades, she also has two Ruger Warhawks, a Remington 950, and Krime Boss drum fed shotgun (with Ammo Skip), all internally smartlinked with personalised grips.
-
So to return a little bit to the topic; should the situation be fixed? If so how?
Would reducing the AP to -2 for Combat Knives and increasing Vibros to AP -4 solve this issue even a little?
-
Don't think there is anything really to fix. We have different tools that do different things.
Combat knife: an armor penetrating long blade for close combat.
Survival knife: multi-tooled utility knife.
Knife: your run of the mill knife. Be it kitchen, pen, pocket, or belt. Nothing special.
Cougar fine blade: a well made, stylish knife. But still a knife.
Couldn't find vibro blades anywhere, and mono filiment only comes on swords.
-
Or Diakote sapphire knife and have nothing show up on mad scanners
-
Vibro blades are from Sail Away Sweet Sister, the enhanced fiction.
There are two sizes, knife (Acc: 5 DV:(str+2)P AP: -2) and sword (Acc: 6 Reach: 1 DV: (Str+4)P AP: -2). They hummed when turned on and DV -1 when used turned off.
-
theres anything about monowire blades other than the sword?
-
The monowire chainsaw ;D
-
So to return a little bit to the topic; should the situation be fixed? If so how?
Would reducing the AP to -2 for Combat Knives and increasing Vibros to AP -4 solve this issue even a little?
Ultimately Monowhips win melee. Concealability of 10 when implanted. Essentially immune to Scanners once you can upgrade to a Deltaware fingertip. RAW that would be after the first run, since the Availability isn't an issue. High damage and high AP with no stat investment.
From a mechanical efficiency standpoint monowhips win. The fact that there are other melee weapons with niche uses, or are somewhat close mechanically is a bonus, not a problem. It means you're only slightly penalized for style choices.
-
Except when you crit glitch your attack roll unarmed is good slap on some shock gloves great if you are a mage for touch attacks
-
If you are burning essence for a finger tip compartment, you will also have a datajack and the monowhip will be wireless, so no cutting yourself.
-
So you get wireless bonus with a datajack? So I can get +2 smart link bonus with wireless off?
-
If you are burning essence for a finger tip compartment, you will also have a datajack and the monowhip will be wireless, so no cutting yourself.
So you get wireless bonus with a datajack? So I can get +2 smart link bonus with wireless off?
I'm not sure how one statement led to the other...
Overall, the writers did a piss poor job at explaining exactly what "Wireless Bonuses" entail. What they really needed was to elaborate which were Network Bonuses and which were Matrix Bonuses.
Monowhips have a Network Bonus which allows them to instantly contract the moment your swing starts to go awry. So as soon as you think "Oh shit, I'm about to chop off my own arm", the command gets sent, and the whip retracts. Wired Reflexes working in conjunction with Reaction Enhancers, is a Network Bonus. They don't need anything from the Matrix, just to talk with each other, which is why they are one of the only devices that benefit from an Internal Router. Throwing Daggers would also be a Network Bonus, since they aren't going online, they're just talking to each other as they're thrown.
Smartguns on the other hand, have a Matrix Bonus for contacting Weather.com and getting precise wind and temperature, as well as using cloud computing to process precise trajectories and whatnot, in order to grant you the bonus attack dice. But the Accuracy bonus is a Network Bonus since it only requires the Gun talking to your Eyeware.
You could run a cable from your Datajack to your finger compartment Monowhip, but that's going to look really... odd. That would give you the Network Bonus to control deployment. Just like you could run a cable from your Glasses to your Smartgun to get the +2 Accuracy Network Bonus.
-
Yep; the combat knife is a great investment for any character, blades skill or not. Never know when you might need a cutting implement for utility purposes, and the combat knife is an even better investment with a point or two in blades.
For Utility Knife/Cutting Implement I go with the extra features of the Survival Knife.
Combat Knife is my blade of choice for a Black Trenchcoat feel or for Weapon Foci.
On the other hand for Pink Mohawk, you get all sorts of fun things with the Katana, Combat Axe, & Claymore.
-
Now im curious if the Survival Knife is worth anything.
-
Survival Knife is OK as a weapon, but its primary use is for all the extra stuff that comes with.
-
Agreed Mirikon.
Its a solid backup with it combat stats.
But its all about the cool toys that it comes with.
My Mystic uses a Survival Knife, he has no Blades skill & a 1 STR so he's not hurting anyone with it. But its a "tool" for emergency situations.
-
Viktor is be using sledgehammer.
Is best weapon.
Is Viktor's opinion, but is also correct.
-viktor
-
Viktor is be using sledgehammer.
Is best weapon.
Is Viktor's opinion, but is also correct.
-viktor
That's because "Sledgehammer is stronk Soviet engineering!" ;D
-
Sure, I only have the two hands, but sometimes I get excitable as to choice.
No grenades?