Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Airwhale on <03-02-16/1557:52>
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Hey folks,
I was planning on submitting this shapechange-based mystic adept to the runnerhub persistant universe. It seems like you guys give great feedback, and I'd greatly appreciate if you have any comments on how I could make him better. Skills:A, Attributes:B, Magic:C, Metatype:D, and Resources:E
Full PDFs and backstory is here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwyDr0JHdy_ocjJOZ2d5RGZFams&usp=sharing
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I have some questions about your character.
1. What are your shapechanged stats?
2. What do you plan to do? What's your 'thing'? What makes people hire you as a runner? I just want to get a clear picture.
3. What is a Soldier Spirit?
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Ok, if I get this right you want to change into a Tiger to mitigate your poor physical stats. (Soldier spirits are ant insect spirits - a pretty cheesy way to full fill that neg. quality - until you stumble over your first hive...)
You should be aware that:
1) Your armor doesn't transform, so you should probably invest in the armor spell
2) Taking the conjuring group is suboptimal. You want a specialization in summoning - preferably for a spirit of men who can cast one or two spells on you and sustain them at full force
3) Get a mentor spirit instead of such high focused concentration - you are Kid Tiger, go and get a re-fluffed shark or bear as a totem. (Bear will help you a bit on that armor thing)
4) Generally, I'd advice you to take Attributes A, Magic A, Skills C, Money E, Metatype E for more spells and magic or if Sum to ten isn't allowed at least change attributes and skills.
5) Don't rely to much on your shapechanged stats. There are a lot of situations where you don't want to take animal form or where leaving your clothes behind would be inconvenient (Unless you burn a spirit task to have them carry your stuff after you)
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1) Well, the Critter section of the SR5 rulebook is notoriously small. But if I were to change into a tiger, my stats would be:
B:6, A:5, R:4, S:5. Movement:x2/x6/+4, Natural weapons: Claws/Bite: DV(STR+3)P, AP-1)
And I get to add one to a physical stat for each success I get in my spellcasting test. Assuming that it is force 4 (Which I can sustain through my focused concentration), that is a +3 or +4 to strength.
2) The team roll is melee combat with magical support: i.e. a tiger that shoots lightning bolts from his eyes. Assuming I have an 8 or 9 strength, that means I can charge 30m and claw someone for a 15 die attack, doing 12P-3 or 13P-3 damage. That seems on par with Ork melee. I can also use knockout with 14 dice for 8S stun with minimum drain. Ranged combat is handled with force 5 lightning bolts. Dodge is around 19 dice, Block is around 22 dice. And I can add full defence for another five dice if needed. 6 dice counterspelling and magical healing only adds to the mix.
3) I believe a Solder spirit is a Non-Queen insect spirit.
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As mentioned, your reign of terror will be quite short without adequate armor. Your defense pool is too low (Increase reaction, and get the combat sense spell). The first FA weapon you meet will otherwise be your end.
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Are you sure you want to charge armed people while being naked? Dodging is nice but body armor exists for a reason.
I also agree with Jack Spade. You're generally ok with non-maxed spellcasting, but spirits are NOT your friends until you succeed in summoning and preferably binding them.
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Ok, if I get this right you want to change into a Tiger to mitigate your poor physical stats. (Soldier spirits are ant insect spirits - a pretty cheesy way to full fill that neg. quality - until you stumble over your first hive...)
You should be aware that:
1) Your armor doesn't transform, so you should probably invest in the armor spell
2) Taking the conjuring group is suboptimal. You want a specialization in summoning - preferably for a spirit of men who can cast one or two spells on you and sustain them at full force
3) Get a mentor spirit instead of such high focused concentration - you are Kid Tiger, go and get a re-fluffed shark or bear as a totem. (Bear will help you a bit on that armor thing)
4) Generally, I'd advice you to take Attributes A, Magic A, Skills C, Money E, Metatype E for more spells and magic or if Sum to ten isn't allowed at least change attributes and skills.
5) Don't rely to much on your shapechanged stats. There are a lot of situations where you don't want to take animal form or where leaving your clothes behind would be inconvenient (Unless you burn a spirit task to have them carry your stuff after you)
Thanks for the feedback! Totally happy to make that Spirit bane all insect spirits, Hero labs just only has Solder and Queen spirits as options.
1)I thought about that, but I don't want to sustain it. I mean, unless I am casting at a high force (with high drain) and burning regients, I'm only looking at 3 or 4 armor at most. For a cost of -2 for all spells.
I'd rather just keep a high dodge pool, keep around armor fitted for my main combat form when we know combat will happen, and try to make sure that I always have enough resources to run/edge my way from any grenades, which I think is the main defensive hole of this character.
2)Yeah, That makes sense. I guess I should just drop binding and dispelling? Summoning doesn't seem a strong thematic element of this character. Doesn't having a spirit sustain a spell on you require binding, though? Or do you mean powers?
3)Maybe. I don't feel like I can rely on sustaining focuses to maintain my shapechange though, as shapechanging makes it hard to hold onto clothes/foci, and I don't want to eat the -2 dice. Focused concentration just seems so convenient.
4)Runnerhub doesn't allow you to do Sum to ten for priorities, sadly.
5) Yeah. My thought is in that case I am just a mage that has a decent unarmed, and can cast lightningbolt/punch in a combat. I also have to worry about this if something is dispelling my shapechange.
In general, when combat happens, I plan on ripping though a lot of clothes. It kind of goes with any shapechanger movie!
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As mentioned, your reign of terror will be quite short without adequate armor. Your defense pool is too low (Increase reaction, and get the combat sense spell). The first FA weapon you meet will otherwise be your end.
Gotcha. What dodge should I be aiming for, then? And how do I sustain that combat sense? Do I just eat the -2?
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I mean, hopefully in a situation where people are using assault rifles/SMGs, I'll have enough warning to put on my barding. Else, I stay in cover and shoot lightning bolts?
Are you sure you want to charge armed people while being naked? Dodging is nice but body armor exists for a reason.
I also agree with Jack Spade. You're generally ok with non-maxed spellcasting, but spirits are NOT your friends until you succeed in summoning and preferably binding them.
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New stat block based on raising Summoning and Binding:
'KID TIGER!!!
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 4, A 2, R 3/6, S 2, W 5, L 2, I 6, C 4, ESS 6, EDG 2, M 6
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 11
Armor: 9
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 7
Physical Initiative: 9/12+4D6
Active Skills: Arcana 2, Assensing 5, Athletics Group 6, Binding 6, Counterspelling 6, Perception 5, Spellcasting (Combat Spells +2, Manipulation Spells +2) 6, Stealth Group 4, Summoning 6, Tracking 2, Unarmed Combat (Natural Weapons +2) 6
Knowledge Skills: Animals of the world 4, Comic Books 6, Psudo-Science 6
Languages: English N
Qualities: Astral Beacon, Chaos Mystic Adept, Focused Concentration (4), Gremlins (2), Spirit Bane: Insect Spirits
Spells: Heal, Lightning Bolt, Magic Fingers, Punch, Shapechange
Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Combat Sense (1), Critical Strike: Unarmed Combat, Improved Reflexes (3), Improved Sense: Flare Compensation, Improved Sense: Ultrasound Sensor
Gear:
. . Armor jacket turned into tiger barding via fashion spell
. . Big and tall modification to armor jacket (1)
. . Black super hero costume with purple cape.
. . Certified Credstick, Silver
. . Certified Credstick, Standard
. . Contacts (1) w/ Image Link
. . Peter Parker w/ Fake License: Combat spell: Lighting bolt (3), Fake License: Combat spell:Punch (3), Fake License: Magic (But we all know it is SCIENCE!!!) (3), Fake SIN (3), (1 month) Low Lifestyle
. . Plain clothes
. . Plain clothes
. . Plain clothes
. . Small backpack
. . Stim Patch (6)
Contacts:
Alpha (Connection 4, Loyalty 1)
Doc Brown (Connection 1, Loyalty 6)
Starting ¥: 40 + (3D6 × 60)¥
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Yeah, that's why I recommend a spirit of men. At force 6 you can give it the ability to cast and sustain two spells on you that you know.
That will tremendously benefit your survival. If you feel lucky you can even go with a force 12 spirit for 4 spells and a much higher casting pool than yourself.
Focused concentration doesn't need to be that high if you use reagents (which you should). And since you can't use it to sustain more than one spell (like a sustaining focus) it's really a bit of a waste.
Don't rely to much on evasion. A full auto salvo gives you -9 to defense, pulse weave will ruing your day and make socks cling to your back and gas grenades will fuck you up royally.
At the very least get the adept attribute boost body and agility.
Exchanging 2 levels of focused concentration would give you enough karma to buy mentor spirit shark (+2 to Unarmed + Killing Hands) and Agile Defender, so you can use your improved agility on your full defense.
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Huh. Missed that -9 to dodge rolls on FA weapons. Maybe this character just isn't playable as a concept? It seems like you really need a minimum of 12 points of armor to be survivable, which I don't think is really possible here reliably.
Really good point on Focused concentration. Guess I'm carrying around some magically charged used batteries and tin foil in my backpack.
I hate shark thematically for this character, but your right, numbers wise, it just fits.
Lots to think about here. Thanks.
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Yea, you're playing with a loaded gun with this concept.
As an awakened, you are piority #1 for all security and goons ('Geek the mage first' isn't just a saying, its SOP!)
Your concept then places you in a form that has zero protection, and relies on skills not normally strong in an awakened build (melee combat).
Mystic adepts can be very strong characters, but they take a lot to get off the ground. Your first 100 karma gained will either break you or make you.... and there is almost no leeway for a poor decision along the way thanks to an even greater need for karma over physical adepts and mages.
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My assumption with Karma was that it should mostly go to power points and edge, right? More combat sense to further shore up that die pool, maybe a few ranks of armor. Then after three initiations, get shielding and masking/extended masking to take advantage of the large initiate grade. Get Edge up to 3 or 4. Maybe somehow improve gymnastics?
Fortunately, runner hub allows the transfer of nuyen->karma at 2000->1, so that should help with advancement.
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Depends. The rub on mystic adepts is that they don't get a free PP when they initiate. If you want a PP, you have to take the pp metamagic.
Which slows down your PP progession compared to physical adepts. And because you have to choose between PP and metamagics, you may not be able to pull off the same feats as a mage. (Centering for more spell resistance, quickening for less sustained spells, masking for stealth, shielding for defense, refecting for offensive defense, etc).
And we have yet to talk about foci, spells, skills, equipment.....
You have to plan out mystic adepts carefully. Or you end up broken/underpowered quickly.
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Huh. Missed that -9 to dodge rolls on FA weapons. Maybe this character just isn't playable as a concept?
Don't give up just yet. You can turn invisible and sneak up to your mark instead of charging it. More like a jaguar or a leopard than a tiger.
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Right, what ZeldaBravo said.
You have chosen a tough concept, now you have to refine it through optimization to be workable.
First of all, you have to realize that you are highly dependent on preparation. That is a drawback - most confrontations are over before you have all your buffs up.
Secondly, you are very squishy, so you should look for options to be a bit less armor dependent.
My first suggestion would be to change from Chaos tradition to Psionic. You keep Intuition as you drain stat, but you now have a possession tradition.
Now, get an armor bag. That thing is flexible enough to be worn and put on by an animal. Get Gel Packs on it as well to increase armor. Now conjure a high force spirit of man and have it possess the bag, so it's armor increases by half the spirits rating.
The spirit now gets also the command to recklessly cast Armor and Reinforce and sustain them - if you are nice, you learn these spells as limited versions and make the armor bag (which you can modify with Fashion) the fetish (you can fluff that thing as your magic armor)
Now the only thing you have to do is to transform yourself.
The other way would be - as previously suggested - to learn improved invisibility and have a spirit cast concealment on you.
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It feels like to me the answer is both. I like the idea of an armor bag... seems like a tiger could transform out of that, say into a bird, without hurting the bag so much.
I think the way to play this character is just strategically and with as much forethought as possible. Against single/few opponents without automatic rifles, the character can just charge them and take them down. When doing a B/E job, the character can be invisible, hopefully have some sort of armor on, and rip the heads off of anyone needed. When fighting groups, the character can stay invisible, try and cast something like hotpotato, and just try and take down folks either from a distance, cast invisibility on other team mates, or just hit soft targets. A well placed grenade/fireball could ruin his day, but, it still sounds like a fun concept to play.
Especially with 15-20 karma for a few more spells, this character does seem like he would have a lot of options for different situations. I think I'm up for the challenge.
And if it does not work, then I'll just start working on the next character now. =)
Right, what ZeldaBravo said.
You have chosen a tough concept, now you have to refine it through optimization to be workable.
First of all, you have to realize that you are highly dependent on preparation. That is a drawback - most confrontations are over before you have all your buffs up.
Secondly, you are very squishy, so you should look for options to be a bit less armor dependent.
My first suggestion would be to change from Chaos tradition to Psionic. You keep Intuition as you drain stat, but you now have a possession tradition.
Now, get an armor bag. That thing is flexible enough to be worn and put on by an animal. Get Gel Packs on it as well to increase armor. Now conjure a high force spirit of man and have it possess the bag, so it's armor increases by half the spirits rating.
The spirit now gets also the command to recklessly cast Armor and Reinforce and sustain them - if you are nice, you learn these spells as limited versions and make the armor bag (which you can modify with Fashion) the fetish (you can fluff that thing as your magic armor)
Now the only thing you have to do is to transform yourself.
The other way would be - as previously suggested - to learn improved invisibility and have a spirit cast concealment on you.
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Skills:A, Attributes:B, Magic:C, Metatype:D, and Resources:E
New stat block based on raising Summoning and Binding:
Here are some suggestions that I can see to potentially improve this character & keep the same concept
Try using the following Priorities
Attr-A
Magic-B
Skills-C
Meta-D
Cash-E
Rearrange Attributes to:
B3, A5, R5, S3
W5, L1, I6, C4
Es6, Edg3, Mag6
Drop these Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Improved Sense x2,
FYI, quite a few people say Ultra Sound isn’t even an option.
Replace them with Chi-Foci & Tech that you get after a run or 2 post Char-Gen.
Pick up the following.
Traceless Walk + Heightened Concern
(These will do wonders for your sneak while shapechanged concept)
Skills: 4/4+28+2G
Athletics Group-2
Counterspelling-6
Perception-6
Sneaking-6
Spellcasting-6
Summoning-6
Unarmed Combat-6
Reduce Focused Con down to 2 & Add Mentor Spirit & maybe Joat or something else.
Change out Lightning Bolt & Magic Fingers for Ball Lightning & Improved Invisibility
Contacts: Give the fixer another point (or 2) of Connection by giving the Doc room to grow in Loyalty.
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FYI, quite a few people say Ultra Sound isn’t even an option.
Ultrasound/echolocation/bio sonar...whatever you like to call it is a naturally occurring sense:
Microbats generate ultrasound via the larynx and emit the sound through the open mouth or, much more rarely, the nose. The latter is most pronounced in the horseshoe bats (Rhinolophus spp.). Microbat About this sound calls (help·info) range in frequency from 14,000 to well over 100,000 Hz, mostly beyond the range of the human ear (typical human hearing range is considered to be from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz). Bats may estimate the elevation of targets by interpreting the interference patterns caused by the echoes reflecting from the tragus, a flap of skin in the external ear.
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Doesn't stop some GMs from saying 'Nope.'.
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GMs fiat isn't an argument.
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GMs fiat isn't an argument.
Its the only one that matters.
Even if the rule book says "the sky is blue", the GM can say "No. In my game the sky is Red."
You have 2 choices. Accept it and play. Don't accept it and not play. Arguing with the GM doesn't give you a third choice.... it usually just means a choice is made for you, and that is that you DON'T get to play.
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The reason you stated is why it's not an argument.
A GM can do whatever he wants regardless.
We make arguments on this forum, pro or con, based on RAW or RAI to come up with what most people would play with. It won't be the answer every GM plays with, but we try and get an interpretation most people will go with.
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I'd say there is more than just GM fiat going on.
The ability Motion Sense is basically Ultra Sound Sensor as a sense & it costs 0.25
Personally I like the idea of an Improved Sense that ONLY mimics the Visual modifiers chart for 0.25 combing with the detection of Motion sense to give you nearly a full Ultra Sound sensor for 0.75
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Motion sense is .5! (Im being nitpicky. :P Plus im away from books so i might be entiiirely wrong :P)
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Motion sense is .5! (Im being nitpicky. :P Plus im away from books so i might be entiiirely wrong :P)
If you reread his sentence he never said differently.
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I'd say there is more than just GM fiat going on.
The ability Motion Sense is basically Ultra Sound Sensor as a sense & it costs 0.25
Personally I like the idea of an Improved Sense that ONLY mimics the Visual modifiers chart for 0.25 combing with the detection of Motion sense to give you nearly a full Ultra Sound sensor for 0.75
Any sense enhancement provided by cyberware
or bioware can be provided by this power, unless
that enhancement either gives you bonus dice to
Perception Tests or needs wireless to work (or both). CRB319
You can get ultrasound cyberware and it provides no dice therefore...
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Motion sense is .5! (Im being nitpicky. :P Plus im away from books so i might be entiiirely wrong :P)
Typo, yes, its .5, that was my point, that it costs twice what a normal "sense" does
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Any sense enhancement provided by cyberware
or bioware can be provided by this power, unless
that enhancement either gives you bonus dice to
Perception Tests or needs wireless to work (or both). CRB319
You can get ultrasound cyberware and it provides no dice therefore...
Sense Enhancement....... v/s...... Sensor
Not the same thing really.
Sensor's have Ratings.
What rating is your sense power?