Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/0124:32>

Title: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/0124:32>
I thought I remember a discussion on Matrix Assassins, their viability, and how you would go about building one. I don't remember seeing any actual characters. Has anyone made any that they would be willing to post?

Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/0248:41>
If I remember correctly, the consensus was that it is highly unpractical/almost impossible since someone not in hot sim will have their gear fried before they get into overflow.
So you'd need to do 30+ damage with one strike (or a very controlled strike to fill the matrix condition monitor of the subject up to one before last
All in all it's not doable reliably.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/1009:36>
Ya it really requires the target to be in VR.

I guess technomancers are the easiest targets, unfortunately. The programs that link-lock and biofeedback would help with that at least.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/1014:46>
That's right.

Paradoxically, people with high end devices are more at risk for such an attack.
If you'd use a Fairlight Caliban with a hardening module, someone could actually fill up your stun track without frying your gear. That person would then be at your mercy for another strike.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/1019:58>
Kind of wish there were modified databombs that could add biofeedback damage...
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/1039:38>
Well, technically you can: Place the data bombed file on your system while you run the biofeedback program and all matrix damage you do inflicts an equal amount of real damage - similarly to the damage someone receives who botches an attack action against you.

You'd need some serious Con to make your victim do that...
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/1352:03>
So you set a databomb file while while you run a biofeedback program, and then con your target to open it?

Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/1402:44>
Pretty much :D
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/1453:46>
Doesn't require THAT much of a skillset.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-09-16/1538:04>
Except that's a super niche situation and no competent target will fall for it.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-09-16/1543:29>
Getting a target to stay in the Matrix is easy, Link Lock... the issue is, there's no way for a character to deal Biofeedback Damage without dealing Matrix Damage... ICE manages t do it, but Deckers can only piggyback it.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/1559:16>
Maybe a technomancer/face who actually invests in the Link-lock and biofeedback echoes and use a sprite to sustain a Redundancy complex form to keep someone's deck intact.  Sounds like a lot of work for a niche action.

Oooor... a team effort. A decker locks and hits with biofeedback. A technomancer does the conning and tries to keep the target commlink/deck functioning.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/1613:17>
That probably won't work since you probably can't create enough temporary damage boxes for the device (you'd need around 20 successes)

But a Techno could use puppeteer to force the owners device to access the protected file.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/1621:17>
That probably won't work since you probably can't create enough temporary damage boxes for the device (you'd need around 20 successes)

But a Techno could use puppeteer to force the owners device to access the protected file.

Hmm... The Redundancy only has to work on the first hit and some physical damage and lock the target. Once a commlink bricks, dumpshock may take care of the rest. Again though... not likely...
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/1701:23>
Well, lets calculate it through:

Your target has a Hermes Icon (R5) commlink and above average WIL, INT and BOD (3), while using only cold sim.

The link has a damage track of 11
The victim has 10 stun and 10 physical damage boxes, as well as 3 overflow

Let's say you have dared to cast Redundancy at level 6 (because a registered sprite gave you teamwork dice) and kept all successes: The commlink can now take 15 damage before it breaks.

Best case scenario, you manage to deal exactly that amount with your first attack.

You do 15 DV to his stun track, he resists with WIL+Firewall, averaging 3 successes

His stun track is filled and he is unconscious, while receiving 1 point of physical damage.

That leaves 9+4(overflow)
You now have to deliver at least 20, better 28 matrix damage with one hit.

Still pretty unlikely.

Data bomb method:

You have a cheap deck and use the usual tricks (smoke and mirrors, overclocking, modifications) to raise the Sleaze Attribute to 10 or more. Since you can try to set a databomb with as many files as you like, you are guaranteed to get one that has a rating 10 databomb on it.
On average this bomb will do 35 points of matrix damage.

Now swap out your program for biofeedback and puppeteer the icon of your target to access this file
He receives on average 32 damage after soak - bringing him to 1 overflow. Dumpshock will give him another two on average, pretty likely killing him.

That is still pretty hard to achieve. You'd need at least a R12 databomb to do enough damage against a more robust target.

Still, a starting character could pull it of. 
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-09-16/1753:04>
Against a target who would have to be in VR and not check for the bomb. Sounds like something you put on your contact list to prevent runners from stealing it, not an effective assassination vector.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-09-16/1820:35>
You can force the device to access the bomb without a check through puppeteer.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-09-16/2058:39>
Basically the concept will remain just that until there's some way for non-Black ICE to deal raw Biofeedback damage unlinked to anything else.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Tarislar on <03-09-16/2218:36>
So you set a databomb file while while you run a biofeedback program, and then con your target to open it?


Hmm.
I've been working on a Decker/Face combo character as a challenge lately.

Elf with
Logic-7
Software-7
Charisma-7
Con-6

Sounds like an idea he could try.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-09-16/2340:22>
You could possibly resonance veil to make a databombed file not look databombed.

What if first you link-lock, and then puppeteer a switch into Hot-Sim VR. I guess it gives someone the chance to send for help or try to jack-out, but you wouldn't have to worry about filling a stun track. Is that even possible? Or would you have to send someone to Hot-sim first and then lock? Or is this a "you can't puppeteer an owner" issue?

If possible. I'm seeing a Technomancer with Puppeteer and Redundancy amd maybe resonance veil. Enough resources for a cheap deck and perhaps shelling out for a Restricted Rating 6 Agent to lock and do biofeedback damage . Enough Edge/Sprites to not die and have enough dice rolling puppeteers and redundancy and to maybe sustain Resonance Veil.  I don't think you can puppeteer a persona to open a data-bombed file when logged on directly through a cyberdeck, which is why I think the Agent route may be necessary, though I'm not sure.

Technomancer will probably have to dump skills, but to be proficient at just this task, only needs high Compiling, Registering, Software, and some Computer. The technomancer doesn't have to do any of the hacking bits. Just keep the target's commlink working and do the puppeteering (and maybe the databombing)

I think this could be doable, and a really terrifying way to be assassinated.  Finding yourself forced into hot-sim, getting link-locked, your deck staying strong way longer than it should, being forced to open a data-bombed file. This is some black-trenchcoat wetwork right here.

Meta: D, Human
Attributes: B
Resonance: A
Skills: E
Resources: C

Atttributes:
Body: 3
Agility: 2
Reaction: 3
Strength: 2 (10 karma)
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 6
Logic: 5
Willpower: 5
Edge: 5
Resonance: 6

Skills:
Compiling: 6 (Crack)
Registering: 6 (Machine)
Software: 6 (Puppeteer)
Computer: 4 (Matrix Perception)

PQs:
Restricted Gear (10 karma)

Gear:
Little Hornet
+Agent (Rating 6)

38k Nuyen left
5-30 karma left (counting Negative Qualities)
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Novocrane on <03-10-16/0001:13>
Rather than attempt to get the target into simsense then kill them, why not take juryrigger and engineer an accident through the matrix?
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: FST_Gemstar on <03-10-16/0002:35>
Hehe

There's that!
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-10-16/0012:15>
Now of course there is actually one kind of Matrix Assassin that actually works... an AI Hunter.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-10-16/0714:10>
You can force the device to access the bomb without a check through puppeteer.
Against someone not in VR you'll still just blow up the device only.

Unless you're also saying you can force a device to pull a connected user into VR?
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Jack_Spade on <03-10-16/0727:15>
Nope. But having the target in VR is the minimum requirement for the Biofeedback Assassin to work, so I didn't specify that as well.

To kill someone in AR you just hack the nearest school bus and drive him over...
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: Finstersang on <03-11-16/0928:31>
Some Options for pure Biofeedback Damage without the Matrix Damage wouldīve been nice.
Maybe some additional - and highly illegal - Programms for "pitch black" Matrix Attacks and Data Bombs.
Or special Sprite Types and Complex Forms.

Well, the latter might probably come with the TM supplement that will probably  come out in the next 1D6 years or so.
For the deckers, itīs houserule / custom content territory anyways.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: revan.be on <03-11-16/1041:45>
wouldnt Control Device be able to stand in for Puppeteer echo?
Since you were talking about controlling the Icon or Device , not necessarily a persona.
Begs the question whether it is possible to Control Device a thing someone has formed their persona on....
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: ScytheKnight on <03-11-16/2049:13>
wouldnt Control Device be able to stand in for Puppeteer echo?
Since you were talking about controlling the Icon or Device , not necessarily a persona.
Begs the question whether it is possible to Control Device a thing someone has formed their persona on....

Yes because AIs can use this to forcibly inhabit a device.

And yes, this does break the 'One Persona per Device' rule to rather interesting effect.
Title: Re: Assassin Hackers - Has anyone built one?
Post by: revan.be on <03-17-16/2039:24>
well its easy then , you just control device someones device into accessing a +linklocked+biofeedbacked databombed file ,
 maybe even on his own device,ACCES PORN FOLDER or if that would be too risky somehow, you can do some tricks with Garbage in/Garbage out if you know what they are going to do...

Like have an action he logically would do instead cause his device to switch from coldsim to hotsim,
have the action to switch from hotsim to coldsim be access databombed file or even attack known MCT Spider persona or whatever,
since hack on the fly , brute force and data spike all do not require any marks either ....
hmmm, maybe not the last part ......