Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Dampfish on <03-09-16/1213:51>
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I have a real problem on my hands that I don't really know how to deal with. This is me both asking for help but also just venting a little, so you'll please have to excuse me if it sounds like I'm starting to whine. But I
would really like need some help with this.
I have a player in my group who is extremely disruptive and seem to think that everything revolves around him.
For example; whenever it's not his turn to do something he's more likely to be looking down at his phone or iPad than he is to be listening to anyone else, including me (i.e. the GM) and I almost always have to explain things at least twice because he didn't hear it the first time.
He's been playing with us once a week for over two months now but hasn't even bothered to learn the basics of the system, no matter how many times we explain them to him, and so he always asks for the books to look up the same things over and over again while we're playing (although I suspect this is also just a poorly concealed attempt at metagaming to try to get a leg up, but that's another topic).
He repeatedly gets up from the table and leaves the room, usually to either take a phone call or use the bathroom, and everytime he comes back basically the first thing he does is yell "Where is my character?!" or "What about me?!" - often when we're in the middle of something not even involving him. And when he's actually at the table he always laughs uproariously at even the slightest thing that can be construed as funny, or tries to be funny himself, basically killing every attempt at building mood and atmosphere to the point of sabotage.
I used to look forward to our weekly gaming sessions, but lately I've almost begun to dread them because it means I have to deal with this everytime.
But I don't really want to kick him out of the group though, because believe it or not he has actually improved now compared to when he first joined, but at the rate he's been going it'll be far too long before he reaches bearable levels. And I have a feeling that it'll split the group in half if I do, so that's not really an option unfortunately. Except as maybe a last ditch resort.
One of the other players approached me a while back after a session and basically voiced the exact same problems I had with him, so at least I know it's not just me. We've tried to talk to him about it privately, and the other player in question is even a colleague of his and she's been doing her best to talk to him about it every day at work, but it doesn't seem to stick.
The only other thing I've been able to come up with is to punish him in-game when he's "acting out" in real life, but there's a fine line between being strict and being a bully and it's a line I don't feel too comfortable crossing.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do about this situation?
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I've recently had the same problem with a new guy to our group. He used to play D&D, and has had trouble transitioning to Shadowrun. I have not GMed with him yet, but I have played 5 games now with him.
Last game we reenacted the scene in Terminator 2.
Me: You just can't go around killing Everyone.
New Guy: Why?
Our Team: What do you mean why? 'Cause you can't.
New Guy: Why?
Our Team: Because you just can't, okay? Trust me on this.
We have yet to actually complete a run with him.
I'm going to be GMing soon with my friends, and I'm going to, politely as I can, say he's not invited. The ipad thing would piss me off more than anything, he doesn't sound like someone I would ever want to be friends with, even even outside of gaming. Your going to have to be up front with him, and your probably going to lose a player, but I don't think that will be a bad thing.
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Yeah, I've had bloodthirsty players like that in my group once or twice before, but that I can deal with as a GM. Just weave it into the narrative and send HTR or strike teams after them.
If it were completely up to me I would tell him that he's not in the group anymore. Him and I aren't friends outside the group so it wouldn't really matter to me, but as I mentioned one of our long-time players have to work with him the other days of the week (that's how he got invited in the first place) and I suspect that she'd never hear the end of it. So I don't really want to subject her to that.
And it would set a bad precedent if I started to kick people out that I feel would rub some of the other players the wrong way and maybe even make them leave, thereby tearing the group in half. So I'm very hesitant to do that.
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The phone thing bothers me too and it's something I've seen in my group as well (we rotate the GM duty, so sometimes it's when I'm GM, sometimes it's when I'm a player). That you take a phone call is not really a problem for me (after all, it might be important and in our group, it has been in the past), but just surfing the net, that you can do while you are alone at home.
One of things you can do is stop repeating things when he was playing with his phone while you were explaining. Just tell him that you just said what was happening and that he should pay attention, as everybody else pays attention when it is his turn. He might not like it, but it's your right as GM to do the game as you want. The same if he comes back and you're doing something with the other players. Simply tell him 'wait, I'll come back to you in a moment' and then go on. I know that assholes are not an endangered species, but he might actually get the point at some point.
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First: my sympathies! Sucks to have something you like go off track like this, especially when getting a good game gong is always challenging.
Second: I haven’t dealt with this situation, and obviously I’ve not been there to pick up the body language, tone, etc. from the various parties involved. Despite that I’ll hazard some thoughts, in hopes that something is of use to you – but take this with a hefty pinch of disclaimers. YMMV, no warranty expressed or implied, no actual racoons were involved in the creation of this post, etc.
And on to random internet advice:
- Have you had this discussion with his co-worker? It sounds to me like she is kind of the person this whole thing pivots on, and probably the person that knows him best. Possibly she is just as frustrated and wishes she’d never let herself be convinced to invite him and is hoping that you have a solution … but possibly not. If nothing else she might bring a little more insight about the guy.
- Some groups play in a very focused manner, others are much more random and unstructured – they may not get a lot done, but they enjoy hanging out and getting at least some stuff done. There is a possibility that he has previously played in a much less structured group than you have. You could probably ask him that, and ask what he likes about different group styles. Could be food for thought on both sides.
- Free internet diagnosis time – extra-bonus disclaimer: you get what you pay for! Sounds like the guy may be non-neurotypical. i.e. ADHD, Aspergers, or something. Where either he can’t stay focussed for long, or where he doesn’t read the body-language & tone clues to pick up on the unspoken feedback, and really doesn’t get how it makes others feel. In other words, you may have a situation not so much of simple rudeness, but rather someone that struggles with their own behavior as much as others struggle with it. In which case, sadly, it falls to those who have more mental flexibility to do a lot of the adapting.
- Whether the previous point is correct or not (and frankly you’ll probably never know—and even if it is the case, he may never have been diagnosed), I’d suggest talking to the guy (probably one-on-one, although maybe later on with some group follow-up), with the going in point being ‘how do we as a group deal with this’ rather than ‘here are your problems, deal with them.’ Yes this is a pain and more work for you, but it could pay off really well. And often the techniques and habits that some people need, others end up benefiting from as well even if they don’t need them as much.
- For example “As you know, ShadowRun takes quite a while to play through. You get distracted a lot with the books or electronics, then miss what is going on, and we have to explain it again – and this makes the whole thing even longer. I’d love if you could pay closer attention but I know that in a long evening everyone’s attention will wander sometimes, and some people’s will wander more and farther than others. So what I want to know is what I can do to pull your attention back when you really need to be paying attention.” That could be that he sits adjacent to you and you touch his shoulder to get his attention, it could be a quick “Gary, listen-up,” or whatever, but the key is getting his participation in the solution. You are more apt to get a solution that works if he’s part of it (he’ll have a better idea of what works with him, and his buy in is key). Alternatively you might then hear about how little interest he has in paying attention to the whole game, which could lead to a different conversation.
- I’d try to make a list of the top three or so behaviors that are the most disruptive, then aim to find a solution for one every session or two, since it takes work on both sides to make the new behaviors a habit. The solutions won’t be perfect, but simply by having even a partial solution it may lower his stress level, and hence reduce some of the behaviors
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Talk to him.
I don't mean to sound flippant, but there you go.
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I've had this happen before.
1). As Critias says is talk to him one on one (so he doesn't feel ganged up on) and let him know very unemotionally and straight forward what is causing problems.
2). Let him know if he wants to stay he'll need to change his ways.
3). Give him a deadline, and stick to it.
Every time I have run up against someone like this in the past (less than a handful of times thankfully) I had too boot them in the end, some sooner than others due to higher irritant factor.
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*snip*
Yes, she and I have taken to discussing his behaviour after almost every gamesession lately and she has most definitely started to regret having invited him in the first place (she's even said as much). Although she agrees with me that he has shown some minor improvement when he's with the group over these past months (even if it's just a drop in the ocean compared to what's needed), but apparently he's behaving even worse at work since he joined us. Almost as if he's holding back and has to let it all out the next day. She's started throwing out ideas on how to deal with him, even going so far as to suggest things you'd do with a kindergartener (like, ring a bell when I want quiet, etc.) but they all seem very crude and I feel they would probably only exacerbate things.
I'm not really sure if he's got some sort of diagnosis or not, but you bring up a good point I guess. Although that begs the question if he is non-neurotypical if it's even possible for him to change his behaviour, and whether trying to help him do that is a lost cause or not...
Not to sound too heartless or anything.
*snip*
*snip, but basically "talk to the guy."*
We've tried talking to him, but as I mentioned it doesn't seem to take hold. I ran into him and the co-worker earlier than usual before a session once and the three of us discussed things as frankly as possible. But it only seemed to make a difference that one time, because the next week he was back to his usual old obnoxious self, unfortunately.
I tried talking to him myself one time before that, bringing up a few things that bothered me and suggesting he should be aware of them and try to do something about them, but then he just started to go on about how much he loved roleplaying and how I was trying to keep him from doing what he loved, etc. He's a real drama queen when he feels like it, and frankly I don't really know how to deal with that type of behaviour.
But perhaps I should give him an ultimatum and a deadline, as you suggested. It may seem like bullying (and again, that's not a line I feel very comfortable crossing) but maybe it's the approach he needs. It's hard to tell.
*snip*
I've started to ignore his constant questions of "What about me?" until I can get to him in a timely fashion, but as I mentioned above he can be a real drama queen when he doesn't immediately get what he wants and that's been a very tough balancing act.
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If he's a drama queen, I suggest treating him exactly like the child he's emulating. There's some local players I encounter in the open games (not Shadowrun) who've got issues with behavior/hygiene/what-have-you, and at this point I now resort to the options I use with children; I either tell them no in simple terms, ignore them until they fix themselves or actively pull them aside and explain exactly what they're doing wrong and the repercussions if they don't fix themselves (in that order of severity).
One example is the guy half the gamers in the area I know call Scratchy. If you take every negative physical stereotype of nerds/geeks out there, he fits. Neckbeard, greasy, B-O, bad shave, other attributes he can't help having but just complete the look. He got his nick-name from the multiple times we found him digging around in his pants at the table when he thought no-one was looking (I and the GM ended up sitting next to him most often). Oh, and sniffing, don't forget that. This was compounded by his habit of trying to snatch up your pencils/writing gear/papers/dice without asking.
Scratchy was also extremely childish; he'd throw these little tantrums whenever the dice weren't on his side, or when he got his math wrong. We caught him cheating a time or two and suspected a lot more. He played this annoying, Mary Sue-esque honorable Tiefling Paladin of goodness, who tried to prostitute herself out to get a bad guy on our side (he rolled really badly and failed). When really irritated, he'd throw dice. Scratchy always tried to explain that they were stressed out or some other bull. The GM took him aside in the middle of the game twice and spoke to him about his behavior on top of other communications (pre and post-game). I took him aside when he literally hit someone with one of his dice while throwing one of his tantrums and flat-out told him I'd kick his ass to the curb if he kept up his behavior. No-one stood against that, and the GM sided with me (he didn't see the die get thrown or hit someone, and he doesn't act on stuff he doesn't see himself). The session after that, he told us he had 'stuff' come up and couldn't play with us any more.
When behavior hits a certain point, you need to draw a thick, deep line and tell them to pick a side.
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I had a person like that in my group, and I really sympathize with you. He was thick as a brick about playing, would literally fall asleep at the table, read my comics or just not do anything when his character was not in the center of things, AND EVEN WHEN HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING HIS THING, HE'D JUST FALL ASLEEP. Literally, there was a run where they had to infiltrate a corp facility, so what does out dwarf sniper/infiltrator sammie do? Well, nothing, since during the "ok, what do we do?" negotiation between players, this player follows for a moment and then dozes off.
He had not bothered to learn the rules, his attempts at being sneaky/tricky were obvious at best and his solution to every problem was "let's shoot the".
He wanted really badly to GM so, because I was bored of being the GM and wanted for him to actually do something with his life tried to teach him to GM... And his runs were rather interesting, to say the least).
He was really a sad case, but our solution was to just allow him to be with us out of pity, mostly. Honestly, we tried to take it with humour because some of the things he did were hilarious, atleast in hindsight. At first they upset us but we learned to just kinda... Laugh at him, and he was too thick to realize it and thus we all had a good time.
If things hadn't gone that well and he doesn't take direct advice, you need to draw the line. "I spend hours of my free time creating scenarios and then hours running them for you guys. If you can't be bothered to focus for the four hours we play, then I don't want to play with you" is a pretty good ultimatum.
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Hire some shadowrunners to black bag him.
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As nobody mentioned that here, do check how the rest of the group feels about him. Because if you end up having to give him some though love (which seems unavoidable reading this thread), the rest of the group do need to act united (not ganging up , but not jumping to his rescue either).
And if he tries to use them as a defense ("But, Bob is OK when I do that", Bob needs to say "No, I'm not", and so on...).
Oh, and there is the coward way too: either stop inviting him and just schedulded the game when you know he can't come. Won't fix anything, but he might get the hint.
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Considering you have talked to him a few times and the issues persist it's time to cut bait and let him go.
Do you really want him ruining everyone else's fun until the whole group falls apart?
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A few more questions & thoughts:
- He obviously has negatives, but does he also bring any positives to the group? (and if not, OK then, that might make your decision easier … )
- I don’t know what your group does for tracking initiative, but some groups have a player track that chart just to reduce the number of things the GM has to worry about it. You could always try this with him, see if it keeps him more engaged at least during those times when initiative matters – and if the extra responsibility/spotlight helps reduce some of the other behaviors. (if not, well, you’ve learned what sort of strategy doesn’t work).
- Do remember that most people can’t suppress bad habits through willpower alone for any length of time, generally we as a species need to substitute other, better, habits for the bad ones. So ‘do better’ is seldom an effective intervention.
- The next time any of you are thinking of making a character with low charisma and low etiquette, remember this guy ….
- Does he have any of the rule books? Do you trust him enough to loan him some of yours? May help with the knowing the rules and looking things up during the game part, but I do understand not wanting to loan expensive books to someone who may have self-discipline problems.
- Maybe you could sit down with him one-on-one at some point (even over the phone or by email might work) and basically say “Hey, now that you’ve been with the group for a while, I’d love to get your feedback about how our sessions go. What do you like, what do you think that I as a GM and the group as a whole could do better? Are there things that other groups you have played with did that you might suggest we look at?” It might give you some interesting insight into how he sees things, and we can all benefit from feedback some of the time. And incorporating some of his feedback might strengthen your case for him also making changes in how he does things (the group is willing to bend to meet him, not totally asking it to go the other way)
Whatever you do, good luck with handling this tough situation.
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[...]
- Free internet diagnosis time – extra-bonus disclaimer: you get what you pay for! Sounds like the guy may be non-neurotypical. i.e. ADHD, Aspergers, or something. Where either he can’t stay focussed for long, or where he doesn’t read the body-language & tone clues to pick up on the unspoken feedback, and really doesn’t get how it makes others feel. In other words, you may have a situation not so much of simple rudeness, but rather someone that struggles with their own behavior as much as others struggle with it. In which case, sadly, it falls to those who have more mental flexibility to do a lot of the adapting.
[...]
Here's some low-down on non-neurotypical from a diagnosed Aspie. With Aspies at least social graces and understanding usually lags behind a person's chronological age, sometimes halting entirely in an individual's teen years.
One of the methods used by educators to help Aspies interact easier with neurotypicals (the rest of humanity) is Role-playing. Specific scenarios many hundreds of times for each specific situation. If social interaction isn't taught to an Aspie as if it were math or science then it will never sink in. All language which is non-specific or has ideas requiring personal definitions (good/bad, right/wrong) will often not appear to be understood because the relevant individuals won't likely have similar definitions, use only Websters definitions when crafting your thoughts prior to attempting communication.
As much as 80% of human communication is NOT contained in the words we speak, this is the "body language & tone clues". Many Aspies have not Rosetta Stone for this sizable portion of the human experience which is why a saying has come into existence. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and Aspies are from Vulcan." Written forms of communication remove these unknown from the equation which is why many companies are having better success incorporating Aspies into their workforce by issuing instructions via e-mail as opposed to verbally.
Some methods to get through to an Aspie:
- Be VERY specific and clear about expected behavior. Try to include who, what, where, when, why, and how; otherwise, the individual won't know if they've performed correctly.
- It will be necessary to confront each individual behavior many times before any progress will stick. However, only focusing on a single behavior at a time can shorten the time somewhat.
- Written communications can remove much of the emotional/social noise from the situation. Providing what the military calls "After Action Reports" to check-in with everyone after gaming sessions could go a long way to adding concrete reference which may improve relations.
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Another diagnosed Aspie here...Beta and Shaidar have some good suggestions, but one thing I'd like to point out, a lot of people seem to focus on the idea of the phone/iPad *being* the distraction. In fact, it's likely to be a coping mechanism, albeit one that can sometimes backfire( and other times, it actually does work, though it doesn't sound like it's doing that well for him, if you really do have to explain things to him. But I find people are most likely to accuse me of "not listening" when I am actually taking in the most information, and vice versa)
---but often, I find there is so much background noise around the table, completely unperceived by the NTs there, that I can't hear what the GM is saying anyway, and I know from experience being honest about this never works and usually causes even worse offense than having an obvious distraction ( which may at least let me be productive in another way). In that case, a few more visual props and informational handouts can make a world of difference, if that won't be too disruptive to your gaming style, and I'd think could be fun even for NTs. But then, that's assuming he does have the same kind of problems I do. Clearly he hasn't got all the same issues since he seems to be noisy and I'm more prone to excessive silence/actual bouts of mutism. Which is also undoubtedly annoying in a game where descriptiveness is valuable.
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Thank you to Shaidar and Ashmire. I now have a clue as to how to deal with non-NT issues. This is important because I teach classes at my LGS for both players (on how to play) and GMs ( how to run the game).
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A player that is intentionally disruptive doesn't last long at my table. I don't have time to mess with such a person. I just tell him he's not invited to my table again.
Because I have rules for my table that every player knows beforehand, and this is for any RPG I play. I've got them written down and everyone signs a sheet that says they've read and understood the rules.
One of them is don't bring your books unless I, as GM, allow it. Because it can clutter up the table. I don't mind tablets and phones, but you don't use those to roll dice at my table; I don't allow using dice apps. Not that I don't think they're good, it's mainly because I often can't see the results from where I usually stand. I am tinkering with Fantasy Grounds, and may decide to use that system for my upcoming games.
I generally allow my players to play their characters however they want. If they want to be bloodthirsty and stupid, fine. They suffer the consequences of this. My other players would likely have killed your particular player's character if he got too far out of line, because they play as professionals, and the last thing they want is a loose cannon who could get them killed, or arrested, or worse.
Usually, most players that behave badly have other issues at play. As others have said, he might have Asperger's, but I often wonder if a lack of social graces is a product of our modern, smartphone/internet age, where we don't have to interact directly with one another. Whatever it may be, I don't worry about it, because the rules are the rules. I have people clamoring to get into my Shadowrun PDX game because I work real hard to keep it fresh, exciting, and consistent, so I don't have to care about kicking someone out if they're violating my rules. (In fact, I'm thinking of charging tickets to play in my campaign.)
You may not have that luxury. I fear, for your situation, that by being kind and adapting to that player, you may end up making a very dry game without much role-playing, rather like a standard D&D dungeon crawl that doesn't really concern itself with whatever characters the players may be playing. And that may not be what your other players are wanting to play. Individual players get something different out of a game, and you have to think about them too, and not let one player become a problem for the others to have to put up with and undermine their enjoyment of the game you're running.
Out of full disclosure, I don't know fully what the situation is beyond what you described, so maybe my suggestions might not be very good for you.
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This sounds like it may have progressed well beyond the 'talk to the guy' stage - that it's been tried, and repeatedly. The following advice assumes that this is so. That having been said:
For His Fellow Players
If the Troublesome Player (hereafter TP) isn't physically there (keeps going to the bathroom, getting up and leaving the room, whatever), tell him he's 'in the back', and if he wants to know what's going on, he'd best pipe down and pay attention - to listen carefully to what IS going on right at that moment, so as to figure it out for himself. To be blunt, stop leading him around by the nose; learn how to turn fifteen minutes of the rest of the group's RP into 'we're off to kill this guy', or whatever the current plan is - and keep it very bare-bones.
If there's an actual plan, again, bare-bones it: tell him the ops that y'all decided for him. If TP bitches or disagrees, then look him right in the eye and reply with absolute calmness, "Well, you should have been around when we were planning." Then go ahead with the plan. And if he deliberately screws up your plan, act like shadowrunners: lock up his gear and 'ware, then put two into the back of the character's skull and leave him behind.
For The GM
Simply, actions have consequences. Warn him first - but at this point, warn him only once. I and my various groups have had significant success with the simple rule of "Enough is enough; unless you specifically say so beforehand, your speech and actions and lack thereof at the table are your character's speech and actions in the game world. If you want to participate, to have a say in the matter, to know what's going on, then you need to be at the table both physically and mentally. If you just want to be casual and hang out, then actually having a character in the game isn't the right thing for you; maybe you could play Diablo III over there while we're playing SR5 over here."
If he sticks with the game, then inform him straight out that he's progressed past the 'talk to him' stage, and now it's time to get into the penalty phase. Tell him that "You weren't here. They left without you." will be a perfectly valid resonse, and one that may lead to desperate interaction on his part as he tries to hook back up with the group. Or "You weren't paying attention, so it sounds like you didn't get paid." Or "Apparently your character was playing LokBlokx on his commlink and tripped the alarm / got shot / whatever stupid thing you walked into because you weren't here to direct your character's actions."
In short, he's a strain on the group, both in and out of character. It's time to inform him that he can either fish, cut bait, or ease on out of the boat. You like hanging with him, but either he's there to play the game (IMO, doubtful), or he's there to hang out, and if it's the latter, then hey - hang out but not be part of the game. And everyone will be happier.
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OP here:
I don't know how/why the conversation became one about non-neurotypical diagnoses etc, but I suppose that could be of help to someone in the future.
As for my own problem, I'm actually happy to report that it has been worked out. The player in question quit of his own accord the last time we played. We sat down with him and I was prepared to work something out diplomatically, but apparently just being "formally" told off was too much for him and he quit the group altogether...
His choice, though I can't say that I'm complaining. (That might sound harsh, but I'm having to deal with bipolar myself. GM-ing is partly a sort of self-treatment for me and his shenanigans did not help.)
Hence why I have been mostly ignoring this thread since.
Anyway, that's my piece.
Tthe tips on handling non-neurotypical players were pretty interesting and will probably be useful - so as you were :)
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I see these kinds of threads all the time across the net, from system to system. You just need to put your foot down, if you don't he is going to screw the game up for you. First of all, there should be no phone usage at the table whatsoever. If someone isn't paying attention they are not worthing having at the table. Sometimes you need to kick people and risk losing a portion of the group. A small group of people paying attention and learning the rules is better than a larger group with a single person ruining the fun for the GM. If he's not going to bother to learn the rules and put his phone away, tell him goodbye.
*Edit* Just saw your last post but I'll leave this here in case someone else happens upon it.
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What is the guys job, especially relative to the other girl who works with him? This may sound stereotypical but its at least as likely that the guy has autism (Aspergers is not really a thing, read the DSM 5 researcher's notes before you shoot the messenger), but he might just be a boss of her or someone else in the company and has gotten used to having info spoon fed to him and is turning to his phone when he isn't getting whats immediately relevant to him.
Rule number 1 with electronics is that when its not being passed to the gm, it should be flat on the table face up so everyone knows its relevant, not metagame related, and not a distraction. Rule two amends that when someone is separated from the IC group, it is customary to allow earbuds turned to medium volume and be listening to music to prevent metagaming. Anything else and it's taking away from the game.
It sounded like he didn't have the books which I personally wouldn't blame him for not understanding most of it since he can't study it but I also say that the gm isn't doing his job if the players have to know anything besides Ability+Skill [Limit] math; rules are doorways, not walls.
If you are worried about people thinking you're a dick gm because you want to get rid of a player, speak to them individually (because in a group makes it seem like your conspiring against him instead of trying to handle an issue) about how they view the person and if they "want to keep him" instead of "how would you feel if I kicked him out".
Too late now but there is always a next time, if he asks "what is going around me again" just tell him he wasn't paying attention in character and see if the players will tell him. Neurotic or not, if he can't equate real attention to IC attention, then you have bigger fish to fry. Depending on his character archetype, it could be really easy to punish him into awareness: if he is the decker or AR rigger, say a grenade landed next to him and he didn't notice and his hand is now gone; if he's a mage, well you know what to do...
The worst case of this I ever encountered was someone who (I wasn't gm) brought his laptop to every game when he already had a paper character sheet and played music throughout the entire game. He was a douchy person so he knew he was fucking with us, not someone with mental issues. Let's just say sometimes you have to make it personal to get them to stop.
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[...] (Aspergers is not really a thing, read the DSM 5 researcher's notes before you shoot the messenger) [...]
It used to be, ASD has only been the "proper" term for the last 3-4 years. Many of us former Aspies who would now be diagnosed with ASD have lived with, and prefer to be identified by, the term Asperger's which was taken from the first psychiatrist to identify the syndrome back in 1944. So I at least wasn't using Asperger's as a medical term but more a social/societal identifier.
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[...] (Aspergers is not really a thing, read the DSM 5 researcher's notes before you shoot the messenger) [...]
It used to be, ASD has only been the "proper" term for the last 3-4 years. Many of us former Aspies who would now be diagnosed with ASD have lived with, and prefer to be identified by, the term Asperger's which was taken from the first psychiatrist to identify the syndrome back in 1944. So I at least wasn't using Asperger's as a medical term but more a social/societal identifier.
In that case, I would point out that many have found Asperger's research to be fraudulent and only existed because the man wanted to save his patient's lives from the Third Reich. If the Nazi medical community determined that Asperger's patients were no longer necessary, they would be executed, so Asperger made the moral decision at the cost of his research being not credible. However since the person in question would not have been diagnosed or simply a latent developer, it would be wise to refer to what medicine knows now and not what we thought we knew.