Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/0147:55>

Title: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/0147:55>
So I am new to Shadowrun. Trying to build my first character. I have the core book and Run Faster thus far; Street Grimoire is my next priority. But this is what I've put together so far for my first char in Chummer. Looking for some feedback on how she will play, how the stats are balanced etc. This was built more on a concept (Elven sea-mage) then with stats in mind, and I haven't really seen enough of the game (read "haven't played any yet" ) to know what's important there, so advice on the balance would be most appreciated.  Also, let me know if you see anything that might break default karma-gen rules. Some of the descriptions, background fields are WIP, too, though I have a good idea of what will go there.
Without further ado, I bring you Hikari.
== Info ==
Name: Hikari                      Alias: Hikari
Elf, Female                       Movement: 8/16
5'9", 150                         Composure: 9
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 9
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 8 (60 kg/40 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 8
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 180
Age: 17                           Skin: Blue
Eyes: Blue                        Hair: Bioluminescent Blue

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4                            CHA: 5
AGI: 4                            INT: 4
REA: 2                            LOG: 4
STR: 4                            WIL: 4
EDG: 4                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           6 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 10         Rigger Init:          6 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 5                       Matrix AR Init:       6 + 1d6
Mental: 6                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 7                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 7

== Active Skills ==
Alchemy                           Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 8
Arcana                            Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Artificing                        Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 8
Assensing                         Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Astral Combat                     Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Automatics                        Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Banishing                         Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Binding                           Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Biotechnology                     Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Blades                            Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Clubs                             Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Computer                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Con                               Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Counterspelling                   Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Cybercombat                       Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Cybertechnology                   Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Disenchanting                     Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 8
Disguise                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Diving                            Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Electronic Warfare                Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Escape Artist                     Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
First Aid                         Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Forgery                           Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Gymnastics                        Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Hacking                           Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Hardware                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Impersonation                     Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Longarms                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Medicine                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Navigation                        Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Palming                           Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Performance                       Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Pistols                           Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Ritual Spellcasting               Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Running                           Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Sneaking                          Base: 2  + Karma: 1  = 3   Pool: 7
Software                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Spellcasting                      Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Summoning                         Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Survival                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Swimming                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Tracking                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Unarmed Combat                    Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5

== Knowledge Skills ==
Chemistry (Organic)               Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
English (Read/Write)              Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Japanese (Read/Write)             Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)

== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Surface Loss)
Bilingual
Bioluminescence
Biosonar
Born Rich
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Driven
Electroception (Electrosense)
Focused Concentration (Rating 2)
Gills (Full)
Glamour
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sea)
Nocturnal
Poor Self-Control (Compulsive I, Personal) (Must Banish Fire Spirits)
Reduced Sense (Smell)
Scent Glands
Spirit Bane (Fire)
Striking Skin Pigmentation
Thermographic Vision (SURGE)
Unusual Hair

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Storm of the Waters, Resist Drain with WIL + INT (8))
Analyze Device             DV: F-3
Analyze Magic              DV: F-3
Armor                      DV: F-2
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Lightning Bolt             DV: F-3
Mana Barrier               DV: F-2
Manaball                   DV: F
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Mob Mind                   DV: F+1
Powerbolt                  DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Old Building (Low)  1 months

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit                      9
   +Electrochromic Clothing
   +Fire Resistance 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Shock Frills
Helmet                              2
Lined Coat                          9
   +Insulation 3

== Weapons ==
AK-97
   +Advanced Safety System, Basic
   +Bipod
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Shock Pad
   +Smartgun System, External
   +Vindicator 200-Round Belt
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 7     DV: 10P      AP: -2    RC: 9
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0        Accuracy: 3     DV: 7S       AP: -2    RC: 3
Remington Roomsweeper
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 4     DV: 7P       AP: -1    RC: 3
Shock Gloves
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 5     DV: 8S(e)    AP: -5    RC: 3
Steyr TMP
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, External
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 6     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 6
Streetline Special
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Hidden Gun Arm Slide
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 4     DV: 6P       AP: -     RC: 3
Telescoping Staff
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 4     DV: 6P       AP: -     RC: 3
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 5     DV: 4S       AP: -     RC: 3

== Gear ==
Ammo: Flechette Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x10
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Assault Rifles) x200
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x100
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Holdouts) x20
AR Gloves
Autopicker Rating 1
Certified Credstick, Silver
Crowbar
Fake SIN (Zayda Attores) Rating 5
Goggles Rating 5
   +Flare Compensation
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 1
   +Vision Magnification
Grapple Gun
   +Stealth Rope (100m)
   +Catalyst Stick
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 5
Miniwelder
   +Miniwelder Fuel Canister
Musical Instrument (Good) (Bone Flute)
Survival Kit
   +Gas Mask
   +Fishing Pole (Cheap)
   +Fishing Lure
   +Scissors (Good)
   +Medkit Rating 4
   +Slap Patch, Trauma Patch
   +Slap Patch, Tranq Patch Rating 1
   +Slap Patch, Stim Patch Rating 4
   +Biomonitor
Trodes

== Karma Expenses ==

== Nuyen Expenses ==

== Description ==
Hikari is a victim of SURGE, but honestly doesn't seem to have suffered much from the condition: other than being nocturnal and having a noticeable smell. Her hair, in addition to a bioluminescent glow. grows exceptionally fast; at shoulder length, when she goes to bed, she's likely to find it at waist length the next morning. It's no wonder she always carries a pair of scissors. She stands out in a crowd thanks to the distinctive style provided by her glamour, blue skin, and bioluminescent blue hair. She prefers it short, but will keep it in a ponytail or bun when that's not an option.

Hikari's armor is a chameleon suit. This choice is partially inspired by her desire to remain unnoticed once in a while, as is her magical mastery of invisibility.The suit has a hood that covers her face when sneaking (much like a Morphsuit) She also possesses an insulated coat for different conditions.

While Hikari has mastered a variety of magic and is quite powerful, she doesn't hesitate to use some bullets. Having four different guns is more than proof of that. She only carries her AK-97 in situations where she expects heavy fire (it's not exactly easy to conceal.)
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: kyoto kid on <03-15-16/0303:41>
...small tip.

in Chummer you can display just the skills the character has positive ratings in by clicking the bar to the left of the one that says "Add Exotic Skill" and switching it to "Show Active Skills Rating > 0". 

It is hard to see what skills the character actually has as purchased with all the 0 rating ones listed as well..
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: gilga on <03-15-16/0709:33>
1. Most of your skills are very low and very rounded.
In magical skills it may work, you will find use for a single point in binding for example but in combat skills you may not find a use. Depending on the table, but most characters will start with a 6 in one of the combat skills.

hacking, cyber combat and so forth are often considered go big or go home - that is if you do not have high logic + 6 in the skill do not expect to use these skills.

Alchemy is a good skill for combat - but you'll need some spell slots for alchemist preparations - punch on an arrow is a very good delivery method, as you get to do double damage. First the arrow damage and then the spell damages but do talk to the GM before that.  So Archery/thrown works very well with alchemy but no bullet skills.

Body and willpower are better ad odd values as they give you more condition boxes every odd value.

There is more but the first thing is to decide on a concept you seem to be firing on all directions with many skills, try to focus your build. Shadowrun is not very forgiving and combats are usually over before they start. If you are not skilled enough you might not survive (again table dependent and it is possible to tune down the opposition for more rounded characters ).
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-15-16/1042:13>
You are trying to do way too much and the end result is that you're basically bad at everything. For example you in no way need 6 ways to attack someone in combat with a weapon and spreading points out like that makes the dice pools so ineffective that you will never hit an opponent.

First Aid 1 means you can heal at most 1 box of damage as long as you get 3 hits. That's terrible. Astral Combat and Banishing ar very low value skills and everything you want to be good at as a mages is too low rating to actually be good.

In the same vein not all stats are valuable. You've ended up with a spread that doesn't play to your strengths and actually makes you slower and worse at dodging in combat, for gains to things that don't actually help you.

This is mostly a game of specialists. You are not and cannot be a one man runner team and building a character that tries to be everything is an exercise in futility. Generalists can be done well but it's hard. If you're new I wouldn't suggest trying to make that happen. You've locked up a lot of karma in SURGE which May provide interesting quirks but ultimately is not very useful, and is certainly over pieces for what you generally get.

And you can't start with a rating 5 fake SIN.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/1243:53>
Thanks for the catch on the SIN.

Anyhow, I agree that I want to focus more on the magic side of things - decking, especially, is something that I'm not going to be dealing with this character, and having stats in that was definitely a result of trying to make things too well rounded.

I'll consider the point on alchemy, but want to be careful giving up any spell slots.  It's really hard to choose spells (and will probably get even harder when I get Grimoire).

I'm curious if I'm investing too much in gunslinging for a mage. Probably am. I also imagine that my limitations in strength are not going to help me with recoil, and that automatic weapons may not be the best choice for that reason. Some input there would be welcome, as well as gear in general
.

I like what I have with SURGE. I'm planning on keeping that as it is, though I might consider swapping out the Thermographic Vision.

You also state that the spread is making me slower and weaker in combat dodges - more points in Reaction + Agility, then?

In terms of where I want to focus - mage, with more emphasis on spell slinging than spirit summoning. Moderate ability with guns (not committed to which kind yet), and a fair bit of agility, stealth and skill with the telescoping staff. (If my GM will approve it, I might have it electro-plated so that the shock gloves can carry a charge down it into an enemy.)





Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-15-16/1257:16>
Here are some of my points.

If your tradition is INT + WIL, why isn't INT maxed? It's one of the best stats anyway. INT + REA is dodging and the basis of initiative, so it's usually good to have REA at the soft cap (1 minus your racial max because only one attribute can be at the racial max).

Why an INT tradition as an elf? You can easily get to CHA 8 which is better for drain and for binding more spirits, and lets you also be decent at face skills. 

If you have basically no skills tied to LOG, why is LOG so high?

If you're not going to invest more into shooting, why is AGI so high (I would say keep this and refine all your combat abilities into Automatics, so you CAN shoot).

You're not going to be good at melee with this spread, so you may as well dump STR. There are easier ways to deal with recoil than high STR, and you're not set up to be a melee combatant.

You're going to want more Spellcasting (probably 6), Assensing in the range of 3-4, and good Summoning (you should not discount this). Perception and Stealth are good for all characters.

Here's a list of skills that are generally not worth investing in: Astral Combat, Artificing, Banishing, Biotechnology, Cybertechnology, Disenchanting.

In addition, a lot of skills are doing nothing for you that is valuable, as has been mentioned (the computer skills, all the weapon skills, forgery, first aid, medicine). Dice pools of 5 don't beat threshold checks usually, let alone opposed tests.

I see your last line - a mage who is trying to be good at spells and melee combat and also decent at shooting is per se doing too much, these skill sets just are not synergistic. I would advise losing the staff idea and sticking to magic and guns. You have no real ability to sustain multiple spells effectively (no sustaining focus and no Focused Concentration) and you lack Increase Reflexes, meaning your initiative is not going to be very good even with maxed INT + REA.

On your original post, Armor is a bad spell because it makes you glow, which gets you killed, and because soak is relatively cheap, so there's little value in tying up a sustaining resource. You have no way to do stun damage with magic, so I'd swap Powerbolt for Stunbolt. Ball Lightning is generally more useful than Manaball because of how the damage is calculated.

I would seriously suggest looking into Mystic Adept, or taking some Focused Concentration and springing for a sustaining focus.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/1331:41>
I actually have rating 2 focused concentration. With so many SURGE qualities I imagine it was easy to miss. I took some of your advice and updated some things, even dropped the roomsweeper/staff cause I doubt I'll use it that much. Still keeping the shock gloves in case someone gets a little too close.  Tossed the updates into a spoiler so as not to clutter the topic.
I also will probably take your advice on Armor. I already glow on my own and that's bad enough.

In terms of gear, is starting with consumable gear (except ammo) advisable? Thinking about and it seems like a waste of karma/nuyen. I could be better off in weapons, Foci, or bikes for what I'm spending.

Also, Chummer tells me that if I break a skill group this can't be undone. Want some more input on how this works before doing some more detailed skill rebalancing.
== Info ==
Name: Hikari                      Alias: Hikari
Elf, Female                       Movement: 8/16
5'9", 150                         Composure: 9
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 10
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 7 (45 kg/30 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 6
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 780
Age: 17                           Skin: Blue
Eyes: Blue                        Hair: Bioluminescent Blue

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4                            CHA: 5
AGI: 4                            INT: 5
REA: 4                            LOG: 2
STR: 3                            WIL: 4
EDG: 4                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           9 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 10         Rigger Init:          9 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          10 + 2d6
Physical: 5                       Matrix AR Init:       9 + 1d6
Mental: 5                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 7                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 7

== Active Skills ==
Alchemy                           Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 8
Arcana                            Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3
Artificing                        Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 8
Assensing                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 8
Automatics                        Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Banishing                         Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Binding                           Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Counterspelling                   Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Disenchanting                     Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 8
Disguise                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 7
Diving                            Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Escape Artist                     Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Forgery                           Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3
Gymnastics                        Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 5
Longarms                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Navigation                        Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 7
Palming                           Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Pistols                           Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Ritual Spellcasting               Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Running                           Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 4
Sneaking                          Base: 2  + Karma: 1  = 3   Pool: 7
Spellcasting                      Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Summoning                         Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Survival                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 6
Swimming                          Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 6
Tracking                          Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 7

== Knowledge Skills ==
English (Read/Write)              Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 6 (8)
Japanese (Read/Write)             Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 6 (8)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3 (5)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3 (5)

== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Surface Loss)
Bilingual
Bioluminescence
Biosonar
Born Rich
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Driven
Electroception (Electrosense)
Focused Concentration (Rating 2)
Gills (Full)
Glamour
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sea)
Nocturnal
Poor Self Control (Compulsive I, Personal) (Must Banish Fire Spirits)
Reduced Sense (Smell)
Scent Glands
Spirit Bane (Fire)
Striking Skin Pigmentation
Thermographic Vision (SURGE)
Unusual Hair

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Storm of the Waters, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (9))
Analyze Device             DV: F-3
Analyze Magic              DV: F-3
Armor                      DV: F-2
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Lightning Bolt             DV: F-3
Mana Barrier               DV: F-2
Manaball                   DV: F
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Mob Mind                   DV: F+1
Powerbolt                  DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Old Building (Low)  1 months

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit                      9
   +Electrochromic Clothing
   +Fire Resistance 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Shock Frills
Helmet                              2
Lined Coat                          9
   +Insulation 3

== Weapons ==
AK-97
   +Advanced Safety System, Basic
   +Bipod
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Shock Pad
   +Smartgun System, External
   +Vindicator 200-Round Belt
   Pool: 6        Accuracy: 7     DV: 10P      AP: -2    RC: 8
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0        Accuracy: 3     DV: 7S       AP: -2    RC: 2
Shock Gloves
   Pool: 3        Accuracy: 5     DV: 8S(e)    AP: -5    RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, External
   Pool: 6        Accuracy: 6     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 5
Streetline Special
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Hidden Gun Arm Slide
   Pool: 6        Accuracy: 4     DV: 6P       AP: -     RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 3        Accuracy: 5     DV: 3S       AP: -     RC: 2

== Gear ==
Ammo: Flechette Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x10
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Assault Rifles) x200
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x100
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Holdouts) x20
AR Gloves
Autopicker Rating 1
Certified Credstick, Silver
Crowbar
Fake SIN (Zayda Attores) Rating 5
Goggles Rating 5
   +Flare Compensation
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 1
   +Vision Magnification
Grapple Gun
   +Stealth Rope (100m)
   +Catalyst Stick
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 5
Miniwelder
   +Miniwelder Fuel Canister
Musical Instrument (Good)
Survival Kit
   +Gas Mask
   +Fishing Pole (Cheap)
   +Fishing Lure
   +Scissors (Good)
   +Medkit Rating 4
   +Slap Patch, Trauma Patch
   +Slap Patch, Tranq Patch Rating 1
   +Slap Patch, Stim Patch Rating 4
   +Biomonitor
Trodes
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-15-16/1422:59>
Most people will rise focused con rating 4 simply because you want to sustain most spells at a level higher than force 2. You can do so with reagents to set the limit and casting at a low force but the benefit to more levels is not having to be tied to reagents.

I'll address skill groups in a bit (unless someone else beats me to it). Basically some groups are great and some suck because only one or two of the skills are actually good.

I know you're not done balancing but I want to point out there is still a huge competency gap you're displaying with all those dice pools below 10. This varies from table to table but as we on this forum have no idea what level of enemies will be thrown at you (and you may not either) we tend to advise for getting opposed skills in the 12-14+ range and threshold skills to at least 10 because this provides good overall competence in your specialty areas.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/1509:22>
I'm thinking that it might be easiest to rebuild skills from scratch, taking a closer look at priority builds to get a better idea of how stats should balance. Sound like a good plan?

In terms of gear, what should I drop? I'm thinking I'll drop the medical supplies and pick them up in game.That will free up some Karma from the nuyen I spent on temp gear, and if I really push it, maybe even let me drop Born Rich to free up some Karma for more FC ratings.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-15-16/1516:55>
Starting over in Priority might be best if you're inexperienced building characters, though I assume every character at a table needs to be built using the same method so if this is for an actual game, check with the GM as to how they want characters generated.

What will drive costs down is not having a bunch of weapons for multiple different weapon skills too, and ammo to go with it. For a mage, an MP or SMG in Automatics is all you need to at least use suppressing fire when you're not casting. If you want an AR, that is something to buy in game. You also have no licenses, which is also a thing you'd need to get.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/1540:49>
I'd be looking at priority to get a better idea of how stats typically balence, rather than actually using the system.

I should note that the whole table is new to Shadowrun; the person likely to GM hasn't played since 1st or 2nd edition, so it will be new to him too.

On Gear: think I should drop the AK, trodes, then?

On licenses, I presume my only option is fake. Do armor/gear mods each require an individual license? Or is one license for the armor and another for the gear enough?
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-15-16/1708:29>
That's ambiguous and you should ask your GM.

However if each piece of gear requires a separate license that becomes exhoribitently expensive. I default to licenses covering a group (guns, armor, ware, foci, etc) but that's just me. The book is very unclear. Though the example characters use the "grouped" method, but those have a number of problems with them so aren't totally authoritative.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-15-16/2032:05>
Updated the balance a little. What do you think of this?
== Info ==
Name: Hikari                      Alias: Hikari
Elf, Female                       Movement: 12/24
5'9", 150                         Composure: 10
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 10
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 7 (30 kg/20 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 6
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 1650
Age: 17                           Skin: Blue
Eyes: Blue                        Hair: Bioluminescent Blue

== Attributes ==
BOD: 5                            CHA: 6
AGI: 6                            INT: 4
REA: 3                            LOG: 2
STR: 2                            WIL: 4
EDG: 3                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           7 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 11         Rigger Init:          7 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 4                       Matrix AR Init:       7 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 8                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 8

== Active Skills ==
Alchemy                           Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 7
Arcana                            Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3
Artificing                        Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 7
Assensing                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 7
Automatics                        Base: 0  + Karma: 5  = 5   Pool: 11
Banishing                         Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Binding                           Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Counterspelling                   Base: 0  + Karma: 4  = 4   Pool: 10
Escape Artist                     Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 7
Gymnastics                        Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 7
Perception                        Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 6
Ritual Spellcasting               Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 7
Running                           Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3
Sneaking                          Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 8
Spellcasting                      Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 12
Summoning                         Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 7
Swimming                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5

== Knowledge Skills ==
English (Read/Write)              Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Japanese (Read/Write)             Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3 (5)

== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Surface Loss)
Bilingual
Bioluminescence
Biosonar
Born Rich
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Driven
Electroception (Electrosense)
Focused Concentration (Rating 2)
Gills (Full)
Glamour
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sea)
Nocturnal
Poor Self Control (Compulsive I, Personal) (Must Banish Fire Spirits)
Reduced Sense (Smell)
Scent Glands
Spirit Bane (Fire)
Striking Skin Pigmentation
Thermographic Vision (SURGE)
Unusual Hair

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Storm of the Waters, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (10))
Analyze Magic              DV: F-3
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Lightning Bolt             DV: F-3
Mana Barrier               DV: F-2
Manaball                   DV: F
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Mob Mind                   DV: F+1
Powerbolt                  DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Old Building (Squatter)  1 months

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit                      9
   +Electrochromic Clothing
   +Fire Resistance 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Shock Frills

== Weapons ==
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0        Accuracy: 3     DV: 7S       AP: -2    RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, External
   Pool: 11       Accuracy: 6     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 5
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 5        Accuracy: 4     DV: 2S       AP: -     RC: 2

== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x50
Certified Credstick, Silver
Fake SIN (Zayda Attores) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Steyr TMP) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Chameleon Suit) Rating 4
Goggles Rating 3
   +Flare Compensation
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
Grapple Gun
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 5
Musical Instrument (Good)
Survival Kit
   +Fishing Pole (Cheap)
   +Fishing Lure
   +Scissors (Good)

== Karma Expenses ==

== Nuyen Expenses ==
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-16-16/0945:20>
I'm going to pose you a question. What do you hope to accomplish with pools of 7 in Alchemy, Banishing, Ritual Casting, Escape Artist, and Binding, or 6 in Perception?

Just for example, rolling 7 dice of Banishing is not unlikely to do nothing to a spirit, and just inflict a ton of Drain upon you, for example.

I suggest you go re-read the sections about making threshold and opposed tests, and consider whether getting an average of 2.33 successes on some of these rolls would be considered sufficient or useful.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-16-16/1137:24>
Updates:
== Attributes ==
BOD: 5                            CHA: 6
AGI: 5                            INT: 4
REA: 4                            LOG: 2
STR: 2                            WIL: 4
EDG: 3                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 11         Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 5                       Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 8                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 8

== Active Skills ==
Artificing                        Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 8
Assensing                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 7
Astral Combat                     Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5
Automatics                        Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 11
Counterspelling                   Base: 0  + Karma: 4  = 4   Pool: 10
Perception                        Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 6
Sneaking                          Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 8
Spellcasting                      Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 12
Summoning                         Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 8
Swimming                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5

== Knowledge Skills ==
English (Read/Write)              Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Japanese (Read/Write)             Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3 (5)

You have a point with some of those. I did a little redistributing of the ones I found useless. I will need to change the compulsive quality from "Banish" to "Battle" Fire Spirits.
With some of the others (Artifacing, for instance) I have some points invested in them so that I can build on that down the road. Artifacing in paticular is important because I want to make my own Foci down the road - Astral Combat is something that I would anticipate Hikari would be encountering soon enough. At 6 magic, she's likely to initiate fairly early, I would think, and that requires a trip to the metaplanes - I would figure it's a good bet that requires Astral Combat. Is that likely?

In terms of the  Sneaking skill, some parts of Hikari are built around her ability to be stealthy - improved invisibility, chameleon armor. It made sense to have some points invested in that. With swimming, it makes sense to have points in that when you have gills. Water is kind of a theme for Hikari as a character. If I don't keep that, I should switch it with something else in SURGE that is more useful. Again, these are point values I want to build on later.






Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-16-16/1234:05>
You don't have to go to the metaplanes to initiate (though you can), and the Astral Combat skill is fairly low use, since you can just cast mana spells while on the astral (using the Spellcasting skill, which you already want maxed, so AC is basically a redundant skill imo). You do want high INT as INT is turned into REA on the astral (see p. 314) but otherwise, having Astral Combat isn't very useful unless you want to get a weapon focus (which I wouldn't recommend since you don't have the other stats useful for Astral Combat).

Basically, Astral Combat and Banishing are unfortunately narrow skills, both of which are largely obviated by having Stunbolt, good Spellcasting, and a good Power Focus. People will reference the Spirit Index from Street Grimoire as a basic reason why Banishing can sometimes be useful, but (IIRC) it's either an optional rule, or it doesn't matter until you've disrupted like 25 spirits, so either way, it's generally a non-issue, especially if you don't care much about summoning.

Looking at your sheet, I'm going to make a suggestion. INT is your drain stat from your tradition, right? You want this to be maxed, because it makes it less risky for you to take drain while casting spells. Make INT a 6, WIL a 5, drop BOD to 3, and just have STR 1. Or seriously look into having a tradition where CHA is the drain stat (Aztec is awesome but may not fit exactly what you want to do, admittedly).

Making your own foci is just a really difficult path with a lot of opportunities for unpleasant failure, it's much easier to just buy them and have your talismonger upgrade them when needed.

I think you will regret not being able to summon effectively, spirits are the huge force multiplier that mages can bring, but of course that's your call.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-16-16/1701:04>
I actually did switch to Charimsa on the custom tradition: I am beginning to feel that the tradition I'm developing echos much more closely with the shamanistic traditions than the hermtic ones. The primary difference is which spirits are tied to which spell group - something that was significant with Hikari's water theme and aversion to Fire.

From what you're describing, dropping Astral Combat sounds practical. Good to know that it's more common to buy Foci than make them - I still dislike the lack of personalization in doing so, but that's mostly relevant to the flute. I'll keep that in mind and consider dropping Artifacing, and either pushing the points into summoning or alchemy. (I am giving some thought to what one of the first commenters said about Punch arrows - double damage like that might be a good tactic. Wonder if you can do the same trick with bullets?
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-16-16/1718:02>
You explicitly cannot make magic bullets.

I will say - Alchemy is very limited. It is hard to make it worthwhile. Oftentimes, straight up Spellcasting suits things better.

If you've changed to a CHA tradition, you want to have CHA 8/WIL 5.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-17-16/1522:27>
Given the following attributes, what would you suggest dropping? I'm hesitant to reduce initiative, health, or agility. so I'm figuring that leaves strength and logic as reduceable attributes, and bringing those down doesn't provide enough karma to increase Charisma/Willpower. I'm thinking that maybe I should go with what I have and raise these in game.

== Attributes ==
BOD: 5                            CHA: 6
AGI: 5                            INT: 4
REA: 4                            LOG: 2
STR: 2                            WIL: 4
EDG: 3                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 11         Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 5                       Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 8                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 8
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <03-17-16/1633:24>
Oh, I forgot you're using karma. I thought the most recent sheet was generated with priority. Sorry!

I'd probably reduce BOD to 3 honestly. Mages still don't want to get shot, and have some better ways to avoid it versus soaking it (taking Too Pretty to Hit, which makes Full Defense key off of CHA and not WIL, with CHA 8, is pretty great, as is having sustained Combat Sense or Deflection).

It seems like STR 1 would fit ok, I understand that doesn't get you to a new rank of CHA or WIL, but maybe with some pared down BOD? WIL is definitely more important than BOD for mages, simply for drain resistance, and more boxes of drain you can take before you pass out.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-17-16/2042:01>
I'm sorry to say that I don't have Run & Gun (obstacle to being a new player) so I don't have access to a full-text description for that ability. If that's all it does, I can talk to my GM about using it. (I'd also like to know if there's anything special about chameleon coatings, concealable quick draw holsters, and under-barrel weapons - I have stats for some of these things from Chummer, but no details on their actual functions if they do anything special.)

I can also consider the Combat Sense or Deflection: it's something I'll have to learn in-game, though. Either that, or we can consider one of the house rules Chummer suggests, which allows for taking additional negative qualities to boost Karma. My favorite thought for additional qualities would be a serve allergy to carrots. My Karma balance is so narrow that it's tough to do anything else (unless we want to reduce the rating on my SIN? Not sure how good of an option that is. It is likely that Hikari will uncover a SIN in her past when she gets to exploring what's behind the amnesia.)
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Pap Renvela on <03-17-16/2132:08>
 Since you are not getting any attributes above 6 and you have no social skills, why are exactly are you wasting Karma on CHA?
Switch to human and an INT tradition- INT at 6 and WIL at 5 and worry about the other attributes after.

Consolidate your skills- it's better to be effective at 4 thins than ineffective at a dozen things.

Why exactly are you using karma generaation anyway if you're new?
Your GM should sit down with yu as this method isn't as easy to master as the Priority system in the Core Book

I wouldn't recommend Chummer until you know the system because you can't catch errors it may have.
Fore example it allowed you to attach a Panther ammo belt to an AK. Since a Panther is an autocannon, an AK wouldn't be able to fire off ammo from a belt designed to hold autocannon shells.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-17-16/2207:05>
I chose an elf because I want a character who is an elf. Because elves do well with Charisma, it makes sense to use a Charisma-based tradition for drain resistance.

The GM is new to Shadowrun - or at least hasn't played since 1st or 2nd edition. So I don't expect him to be able to help me with everything on char gen -that's why I came here. Priortiy build might be easier but I don't like it as much as I do Karma gen - I can fine tune more with the second even if it's harder to learn.

I'm definitely working on the skill consolidation.

Just checking: have you read through the whole topic? Because if you'd read through the latest posts you might recognize that I've dropped the AK. While Chummer is not perfect, it sure makes things a heck of a lot easier for a new player to manage, and it does check some things: For instance, it stops you from trying to max out more than one attribute, an error a new player might make. I'd much rather be able to manage with software, and as we're planning to hold games online for now, Chummer files make for an easy way to transfer characters and maintain version control of them.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Pap Renvela on <03-18-16/0153:21>
I chose an elf because I want a character who is an elf. Because elves do well with Charisma, it makes sense to use a Charisma-based tradition for drain resistance.

The GM is new to Shadowrun - or at least hasn't played since 1st or 2nd edition. So I don't expect him to be able to help me with everything on char gen -that's why I came here. Priortiy build might be easier but I don't like it as much as I do Karma gen - I can fine tune more with the second even if it's harder to learn.

I'm definitely working on the skill consolidation.

Just checking: have you read through the whole topic? Because if you'd read through the latest posts you might recognize that I've dropped the AK. While Chummer is not perfect, it sure makes things a heck of a lot easier for a new player to manage, and it does check some things: For instance, it stops you from trying to max out more than one attribute, an error a new player might make. I'd much rather be able to manage with software, and as we're planning to hold games online for now, Chummer files make for an easy way to transfer characters and maintain version control of them.

Anything I say are just suggestions- it's your character. Do as you please.

Yes, I read the whole thread.

The AK example is to note how chummer allows things that aren't rules legal and if you are new then you can miss it- like you initially did.

You forgot to point out that my fat finger spelled fore instead of for btw.

Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-18-16/0423:58>
I don't mean to be rude, by the way - I just have my reasons for going against a couple of the suggestions you mentioned. I figured there was a chance that you had read the topic, and were providing an example.


== Info ==
Name: Hikari                      Alias: Hikari
Elf, Female                       Movement: 10/20
5'9", 150                         Composure: 11
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 11
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 5 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 8
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 1050
Age: 17                           Skin: Blue
Eyes: Blue                        Hair: Bioluminescent Blue

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4                            CHA: 7
AGI: 5                            INT: 4
REA: 4                            LOG: 2
STR: 1                            WIL: 4
EDG: 3                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 10         Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 4                       Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 8                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 8

== Active Skills ==
Assensing                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 7
Automatics                        Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 11
Counterspelling                   Base: 0  + Karma: 4  = 4   Pool: 10
Perception                        Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 6
Sneaking                          Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 8
Spellcasting                      Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 12
Summoning                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 9
Swimming                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 4

== Knowledge Skills ==
English (Read/Write)              Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3 (5)

== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Surface Loss)
Bioluminescence
Biosonar
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Driven
Electroception (Electrosense)
Focused Concentration (Rating 2)
Gills (Full)
Glamour
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sea)
Nocturnal
Photographic Memory
Poor Self Control (Compulsive I, Personal) (Must Battle Fire Spirits)
Records on File (MCT)
Reduced Sense (Smell)
Scent Glands
Speed Reading
Spirit Bane (Fire)
Striking Skin Pigmentation
Thermographic Vision (SURGE)
Too Pretty To Hit
Unusual Hair

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Storm of the Waters, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (11))
Analyze Magic              DV: F-3
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Lightning Bolt             DV: F-3
Mana Barrier               DV: F-2
Manaball                   DV: F
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Mob Mind                   DV: F+1
Powerbolt                  DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Old Building (Squatter)  1 months

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit                      9
   +Electrochromic Clothing
   +Fire Resistance 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Shock Frills

== Weapons ==
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0        Accuracy: 3     DV: 7S       AP: -2    RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, External
   Pool: 11       Accuracy: 6     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 5
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 4        Accuracy: 4     DV: 1S       AP: -     RC: 2

== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x50
Certified Credstick, Silver
Fake SIN (Zayda Attores) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Steyr TMP) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Chameleon Suit) Rating 3
Goggles Rating 3
   +Flare Compensation
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
Grapple Gun
Musical Instrument (Good)
Survival Kit
   +Fishing Pole (Cheap)
   +Fishing Lure
   +Scissors (Good)

I made some good progress here and was able to push an extra point into Charisma, rebalenced my non-surge qualties to include Too Pretty to Hit , Speed Reader & Photographic Memory, and reduced my SIN rating to allow for removing Born Rich. I pulled points from Artifacing and Astral Combat, and put them into Summoning.

My next priority is rebalencing spells - after that I will feel ready to play with this charecter. I can add one spell, and am willing to rearrange combat spells (likely either combat sense, increase reflexes or an illusion to change Hikari's appearance.), with the following proirities:
Details on Manablade/Powerblade and Firewater would also be helpful.
If you're curious about HIkai's focus in spellcasting, she's mostly combat/manipulation (subfocus on psychic abilites), with some room for a few extras in the other categores to round out the deal.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Pap Renvela on <03-18-16/0457:14>
If you thought I was implying you were rude, sorry, I didn't mean to.

The last sentence was me poking fun at me because I come off stuffy a lot of times.

My go to area spell is Ball Lightning: I usually face multiple drones/people/critters more often than I do Spirits.

Have you thought about trying to fit in the 2k to buy a fetish and make some of the spells limited?

Having a 33% chance to go once in a turn can be problematic. You might  want to change one of your spells to Increase Reflexes.

Have you considered dropping automatics to 5 and getting Machine Pistol specialization- will increase your DP with the TMP by 1 and save you 23 Karma. If in addition you drop Swimming, that's 25 Karma to increase WIL to 5 (that's 1 more box before you go unconscious as well as 1 more DP for Drain tests).sorry was thinking attributes which are 5xLevel instead of skills which are 2xlevel so it's ot a 23 point saving


Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-18-16/1419:58>
What exactly is a fetish? I know it Returns they are used to summon spirits - I don't think I recall any mention of them or limited spells in the core book, so I'm needing more context on both of those.

Can you provide a couple of examples with automatics now vs. what you suggested?
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Pap Renvela on <03-18-16/1756:37>
Fetish is available from a talismonger. Cost 2000k.
A limited spell is linked to a fetish. You have to have the fetish to cast it- which is the drawback.
The upside is that the Drain is 2 less. So a Limited version of Lightning Bolt can be cast at F7 for Drain 2.
You are allowed to learn the same spell regularly and as limited (counts as 2 different spells) which would allow you to cast without the fetish but at normal drain if for some reason you don't have the fetish.

Specializations add +2 Dice to the Pool if the specialization is applicable. So if you take machine pistol specialization for automatics you get 2 extra dice when firing the TMP since it's a machine pistol.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: drakir on <03-19-16/0804:43>
The karma method often leads to worse characters. Sum2ten or ordinary priority will "translated" give you more karma.
For your character i would suggest priorities: A Magic, B Attributes, C Meta D skills and E Resources
Did most of your character for fun.
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 4, Rea 3, Str 1, Cha 8, Int 5, Log 2, Wil 5 Edge 4 Init 8+1d6
(Same initiative/dodge as your, much better drain and a higher Edge. Body 3 gives same amount of boxes as your cha. The lower Agi I compensate with skillpoints)
Skills
10(12) Automatics 6+2 (Machine Pistols)
12(14) Spellcasting 6+2 (combat spells)
11        Summoning 5
8          Assensing 3
9          Counterspelling 3
8          Perception 3
7(9)     Sneaking 3+2 (Urban)
4          Swimming 1 (karma+mentor spirit)

Qualities: Surge Class III, Focused Concentration rating 1, Mentor Spirit (Sea), Too Pretty to Hit
(Did not fill in all the surge stuff but they are paid for) 
You can fill in your negatives (25 points) yourself.

Resources: 18000 to spend
Spells: 10 spells of your choice
Suggestions: Ice Storm, Ice Spear, Stunbolt, Combat Sense, Mind Probe, Heal, Increase Reflexes, Imp Invisibility, Levitate, Mob Mind  (The Ice spells are like lightning bolt/ball lightning except cold instead of electricity. (Maybe more fitting for your character)
Karma spending: Swimming 2, Money 6, Qualities 42

I hope this helps. Priority also makes it easier to move skillpoints and attribute points around. One thing up another down without having to recalculate the whole character.... (With the downside you cannot for example lower an attribute to get more money)
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: adzling on <03-19-16/2050:02>
That's. Good build excepting the focus conc 1
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: Glyph on <03-20-16/0258:08>
Point build comes behind priority/sum-to-ten for builds focused on high attributes/skills - especially for things like elven charisma or troll strength, where the exponentially increasing costs really hurt.  It's a good idea to run both sets of numbers, though, because point build can come out ahead some times (assuming the GM allows both character creation methods in the first place).
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: dluxcru on <03-21-16/2229:23>
I actually like this priority build. I decided to go with it and give it a few small tweaks. Note that I have street grimoire now, so I have some broader options. With that in mind, opinions/answers to the following?
1.Does Firewater work very well for the character? (I also have Shape Water on a high priority list. Seems unusual, but I can get creative with it.)
2.Given more Karma, can I acquire more spells without initiation to raise my magic level?
3.I'm curious as to why priority C was suggested for species when you can get Elf at priority D?

Now that the stats are basically complete (I have a single point of Karma to put something in, by the way), other than knowledge and contact points, which are under table rules discussion, I have some questions in general about the setting that will help me flesh out the character and her magical tradition. These might be better directed to another topic, so feel free to point me in the right direction if that's the case.

How much has the Atlantean foundation actually learned about Atlantis? Not much? Lots? In particular I'm wondering if the language/magical traditions might be known to anyone.
(There are probably some more to come, but I don't have any off the top of my head).

I may also ask some questions to help guide future growth of the charecter.
== Info ==
Name: Hikari                      Alias: HIkari
Elf, Female                       Movement: 8/16
5'7", 150                         Composure: 13
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 13
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 7
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 0
Age: 17                           Skin: Blue
Eyes: Blue                        Hair: Bioluminescent Blue

== Priorities ==
Metatype: C - Human, Dwarf, Elf, or Ork
Attributes: B - 20 Attributes
Special: A - Magician or Technomancer
Skills: D - 22 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: E - 6,000¥
Bonus Skill: Spellcasting
Bonus Skill: Summoning

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3                            CHA: 8
AGI: 4                            INT: 5
REA: 3                            LOG: 2
STR: 1                            WIL: 5
EDG: 4                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 10         Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 11             Astral Init:          10 + 2d6
Physical: 3                       Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 5                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 9                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 9

== Active Skills ==
Assensing                         Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 8
Automatics (Machine Pistols)      Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 10 (12)
Counterspelling                   Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 9
Perception                        Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 8
Sneaking (Urban)                  Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 7 (9)
Spellcasting                      Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 12
Summoning                         Base: 5  + Karma: 0  = 5   Pool: 11

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Allergy (Uncommon, Mild) (Carrots)
Amnesia (Surface Loss)
Bioluminescence
Biosonar
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Electroception (Electrosense)
Gills (Full)
Glamour
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sea)
Nocturnal
Records on File (EVO)
Records on File (MCT)
Reduced Sense (Smell)
Scent Glands
Spirit Bane (Fire)
Striking Skin Pigmentation
Thermographic Vision (SURGE)
Too Pretty To Hit
Unusual Hair

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Storm of The Waters, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (13))
Ball Lightning             DV: F-1
Combat Sense               DV: F
Firewater                  DV: F-2
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Increase Reflexes          DV: F
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Lightning Bolt             DV: F-3
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Mob Mind                   DV: F+1
Stunbolt                   DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Abandoned Warehouse (Squatter)  1 months

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit                      9
   +Fire Resistance 3
   +Insulation 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Shock Frills

== Weapons ==
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0        Accuracy: 3     DV: 7S       AP: -2    RC: 2
Shock Gloves
   Pool: 3        Accuracy: 3     DV: 8S(e)    AP: -5    RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, External
   Pool: 10 (12)  Accuracy: 6     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 5
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 3        Accuracy: 3     DV: 1S       AP: -     RC: 2

== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x100
Certified Credstick, Silver
Fake SIN (Zayda Attores) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Mage License) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Restricted Armor License) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Automatic Weapons License) Rating 3
Grapple Gun
Musical Instrument (Good)
Scissors (Good)
Survival Kit

== Description ==
Hikari is a vicim of SURGE, but honestly doesn't seem to have suffered much from the condition: other than being nocturnal and having a noteable smell. Her hair, in addition to a bioluminescent glow. grows exceptionally fast; at shoulder length, when she goes to bed, she's likely to find it at waist length the next morning. It's no wonder she always carrys a pair of scissors. She stands out in a crowd thanks to the distinctive style provided by her glamour, blue skin, and bioluminescent blue hair. She prefers it short, but will keep it in a ponytail or bun when that's not an option.

Hikari's armor is a chameleon suit. This choice is partially inspired by her desire to remain unnoticed once in a while, as is her magical mastery of invisibility.The suit has a hood that covers her face when sneaking (much like a Morphsuit) She also possesses an insulated coat for different conditions.

While Hikari has mastered a variety of magic and is quite powerful, she doesn't hesitate to use some bullets. Having four different guns is more than proof of that. She only carries her AK-97 in situations where she expects heavy fire (it's not exactly easy to conceal.)

== Concept ==
Hikari was intended as something of a elven sea mage - her selection of SURGE qualities and charecter traits is intended to reflect that.
Title: Re: New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter
Post by: drakir on <03-26-16/1856:26>
To answer your questions:
1. If you choose Firewater, you can skip Lightning Bolt (Same type of spell). It's still fire(napalm) so you decide if it fits.
2. You can get two more spells with karma (5 karma/spell). (Max spells at character creation is magic x 2). In fifth I don't think there's a max after creation?
3. Why elf priority C? Never underestimate Edge! It's a VERY valuable resource. I try to get C for elves and I have even choosen C for Human without regret. (7 edge is REALLY nice)

 /Drakir