Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: SleazyBakeOven on <04-05-16/2000:41>
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Hey y'all!
So, i have a character idea, but i don't know how to go about it. I want to build a Mystic Adept with a physical focus and specializes in bladed weapons, preferably with a fairly high magic rating and not too much cybernetics (though i do plan to run Prototype Transhuman, as it's a part of the character idea I have going on)
I ask for help because
1.I know piss-all about magic and building magic characters
2. I keep hearing horror stories about how underpowered adepts can be, and I don't know how I can make a melee character that can keep from lagging woefully behind a super-chromed up troll with huge axe.
We are using the priority system, standard level runner, with availiability 12.
Any help is appreciated!!!
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Gonna be That Guy and say MysAd (spells + spirits + PP) + blades (+ stats to support blades) + PT = probably trying to do too much
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Ok, I see. But, if i removed PT, since i'm not as married to it as other parts of my character, could I still make something, yknow, good and viable?
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My impression is that PT would be very closely tied, if not essential, for the blades part.
The way I see it you have two main options:
-Be a traditional Castaspella-with-spirits type MysAd, where your PP boost various things but not combat
-Be a bioadept who doesn't cast spells
Trying to do both of these things is a huge drain on prio resources, incredibly MAD, using different sets of skills, therefore I think it's maybe impossible to do it all at chargen.
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ok. Is it possible for a regular adept to "Awaken" into a Mystic Adept?
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Nope
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ok, i'm willing to shed the mystic adept route and go full adept.
How can i, know, make that work?
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It is not that difficult really, tough adding augmentation would be difficult as it requires you more resources. You will have to take some in debit and stick to cheap augmentations (I went with bone density augmentation).
Here is an example with sum 2 10.
In a gist you have focused concentration 1 for elemental aura spell to augment unarmed damage. (and a cool factor - electricity/fire/radiation(?!) strikes). I did not give you ranged weapon skill because you can use spells.
Unarmed:
5 agility + 6 skill + 2 spec + 2 mentor = 15 dice in your favorite method.
Damage:
8 strength + killing hands 1 + critical strike 1 + bone density augmentation 2 = 12 (13 if you take striking callus - my chummer did not include that.)
Need more unarmed damage? cast elemental aura at force 1 with reagents to set the limit ( you can sustain it with focused concentration) - on average you get 4 hits so your unarmed attacks just got into the domain of 16 (or 17) with an elemental effect. - You are comparable to the cyber troll with the axe.
For range combat you have 6 magic + 6 skill + 2 spec + 2 mentor = 16 dice at range so you are also dangerous at a long range.
so you should be really good for fighting, you have 14 dice to dodge bullets and 5 body/willpower + 3 armor from bio augmentations - so you are quite durable. If you need more than that you have improve intuition but then you'll take -2 sustaining penalty. (or have a spirit cast it on you).
Your initiative is always very good with improve reflexes 3.
The rest of the spells are utility to make up for low skills - such as levitate invisibility, heal, illusions - they are not meant for combat but to give you interesting things to do outside combat and round out your playing experience.
== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character Alias:
Ork Movement: 10/20
Composure: 7
Street Cred: 0 Judge Intentions: 7
Notoriety: 0 Lift/Carry: 13 (120 kg/80 kg)
Public Awareness: 0 Memory: 7
Karma: 0 Nuyen: 21000
Age: Skin:
Eyes: Hair:
== Priorities ==
Metatype: B(3) - Any metatype
Attributes: A(4) - 24 Attributes
Special: B(3) - Adept, Magician, or Technomancer
Skills: E(0) - 18 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: E(0) - 6,000¥
Bonus Skill: Summoning
Bonus Skill: Spellcasting
== Attributes ==
BOD: 5 CHA: 2
AGI: 5 INT: 5
REA: 5 (8) LOG: 2
STR: 8 WIL: 5
EDG: 3 MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6 Initiative: 10 (13) + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 11 Rigger Init: 13 + 4d6
Stun Damage Track: 11 Astral Init: 10 + 2d6
Physical: 10 Matrix AR Init: 13 + 4d6
Mental: 5 Matrix VR Cold Init: 5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 5 Matrix VR Hot Init: 5 + DP + 4d6
Astral: 5
== Active Skills ==
Assensing (Aura Reading) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 6 (8)
Perception (Visual) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 6 (8)
Sneaking (Urban) Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 7 (9)
Spellcasting (Combat) Base: 6 + Karma: 0 = 6 Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning (Spirits of Fire) Base: 4 + Karma: 0 = 4 Pool: 10 (12)
Unarmed Combat (Cyber Implants) Base: 6 + Karma: 0 = 6 Pool: 13 (15)
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Qualities ==
Code of Honor (Orks)
Focused Concentration (Rating 1)
Gremlins (Rating 1)
In Debt VI
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Shark)
Mystic Adept
Prototype Transhuman
Wanted (Evo)
== Spells ==
(Tradition: Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with WIL + INT (10))
[Element] Aura (Limited) (Fire) DV: F-1
Ball Lightning DV: F-1
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (INT) DV: F-3
Levitate DV: F-2
Stunbolt DV: F-3
== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Critical Strike (Unarmed)
Improved Reflexes 3
Killing Hands
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Bone Density Augmentation Rating 3
== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 13 Accuracy: 10 DV: 11P AP: - RC: 4
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Standard Physical Adept with Prototype Transhuman, no prob. Something like Stats A, Magic B, Resources C, Skills D, Meta E will get you there. Be prepared to throw about 30 Karma at skills during char gen though. 22 points without group skills doesn't go far. Sneak, See, Stab, 'bout it.
Standard Spellslinging Mystic Adept, also no problem, you can even carry a gun and be pretty good at it. Magic A, Skills B, Stats C, Resources/Meta D/E.
Spellslinging Melee Mystic Adept, gah. Monowhip or Shock Gloves and you're likely a pretty mediocre spellslinger. You're coming up short somewhere. Throwing PT on top is rough. Mystic Adepts typically chew up 30 Karma for PP leaving you 20 for everything else.
You certainly can do it, but you'll be missing important spell casting skills like Binding and/or Counterspelling. And you're not going to have staples like Focused Concentration, or a couple Karma to throw at Nuyen for Fake SINs, Vehicles, Lifestyles, ect. Armored Jacket and a Combat Knife, go get 'em tiger!
A melee focused MySad is certainly doable though if you're willing to short spellcasting in favor of melee. You can pick up that fancy light saber spell from Hard Targets if you don't want to go with Monowhip or Shock Gloves. It should be more or less okay, its the PT that will hamper you. Stats A, Magic B, Skills C, Meta D, Resources E ? Maybe? if you want to drop PT. Pick up Combat focused Powers and probably dabble in Alchemy and carry a few buff preps, and go with a lightsaber. You'll be an effective melee character with a Spirit side kick, but you're not a Mage.
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Ok, it seems like sword-based MysAd is too ambitious
So, lets say I dropped that aspect of thing, and went full physical adept w/ PT and a blades specializaton
How could I make that work?
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"Standard Physical Adept with Prototype Transhuman, no prob. Something like Stats A, Magic B, Resources C, Skills D, Meta E will get you there. Be prepared to throw about 30 Karma at skills during char gen though. 22 points without group skills doesn't go far. Sneak, See, Stab, 'bout it."
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I mean yeah, I got that part, but I meant more specifically. What are good powers to get? what should be avoided? is elemental strike/attack good and can it be applied to melee weapons other than unarmed? should I get cyberware/bioware beyond what I get for PT? what bioware should i get with PT?
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The fundamental issue with any melee based build is that, while they may be able to do all the damage and hit anything when in melee range, getting in melee range without being weighted down by lead (or worse, encumbered by spirits or cooked by spells) can be a challenge. It works great for an NPC to give a big fright to the PC characters "If that fragging thing gets within a few metres we're toast!" but it is a challenging niche for a PC. (every time I consider such a build, I think back to the scene in Indiana Jones where he encounters a sword master, and just shoots him)
Not saying that it can't be done, but you really should be giving thought to both:
- what tricks do you have for getting in melee range, and
- what else can you do to help the party?
I think that the build will be most satisfying, in the end, when it integrates those three factors.
Which is where being a mysad can be good news, as you can have spells that help the party (healing, for example), help you get close to people (mask, invisibility, levitate, etc), and that can do things when you are not in melee combat (throw combat spells, buff other party members, etc). Also even small spirits can notably help both move speed and ability to sneak past people, so even weak summoning can help with that closing the gap factor. There are lots of other ways to do things too, just throwing that out as one way you could do it (just don't try to be an all purpose caster, strong summoner, and a sword master -- as already said, that would be spreading yourself too thin)
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I mean yeah, I got that part, but I meant more specifically. What are good powers to get? what should be avoided? is elemental strike/attack good and can it be applied to melee weapons other than unarmed? should I get cyberware/bioware beyond what I get for PT? what bioware should i get with PT?
Pick your weapon first. If it's a classic muscle powered weapon that will drive your allocation choices. Either is valid.
PT - Muscle Toner, Used or Omega if your table lets you. After that I like OrthoSkin or Damage Compensators. Bi-lateral Co-processor is also useful for some characters.
Adept Powers is +3 Dice in whatever weapon you're using, 2 levels Attribute boost Agility and Improved Reflexes 2 is a good start, leaves you with 1.5 PP to fiddle with and whatever you get from your Mentor Spirit. For a character short on ranged weapons I like Wall Running and Hangtime, others may go with the assorted throwing or Archery powers. If you're an unarmed adept there are a bunch of Killing Hands based powers.
Cyberberware, just say no.
Stats, Max Agility, then Reaction and Intuition, at least 3 Body, 3 Will, and then if you're a muscle powered melee build go Str, otherwise Cha. Logic is as low as you want.
Positive Qualities, Mentor Spirit, usually can't go wrong.
Skills, Sneaking, Perception, and Hit stuff, and then you're quite likely about out of skill points.
Martial Arts, there are a couple of good techniques but depend on your weapon type.
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excellent, thank you!
for weapon types i'm thinking a sword; I have a sort of "wandering swordsman" vibe for this character, i think
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excellent, thank you!
for weapon types i'm thinking a sword; I have a sort of "wandering swordsman" vibe for this character, i think
if you are still interested in casting spells/summoning you can go "jedi" way with power/manablade.
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if you are still interested in casting spells/summoning you can go "jedi" way with power/manablade.
I keep meaning to build that character... MySad, Int tradition, Agility, Int, Reaction are your "must have" stats. Witness my Hate? Spellcasting, Summoning, Melee Skill, Alchemy Buffs. Heal, Invisibility and Levitate for utility and call it a day. Really not a lot needed. Can't imagine it being terribly effective though. Huge on Style points.
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My try at building what you maybe want.
As is (s)he has 19 dice with a weapon focus Katana and does 11P damage. ;D
Thanks to uber initiative practically guaranteed to have 3 (possibly 4) passes a turn. 15 dice to dodge attacks (before Full Defense). I would not want to have to fight this guy...
Priorities: Attributes A, Money B, Magic C, Meta D, Skills E
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 6(8 ), Rea 5(8 ), Str 5(7), Cha 3, Int 5(6), Log 2, Wil 3, Magic 6, Edge 2, Init: 14+4D6
Qualities: Prototype Transhuman and 25 points of negatives
Augmentations: Muscle Toner 2, Muscle Augmentation 2, Cerebellum Booster 1
Skills: (Better than I expected at start)
16(18) Blades 6 + spec Swords (included +2 from adept ability)
10(12) Automatics 2 + spec Submachine Guns
12 Spellcasting 6
7(9) Perception 1 + spec Visual
4 Etiquette 1 (karma)
9 Sneaking (Stealth Group 1 with karma)
9 Palming (Stealth Group 1 with karma)
7 Disguise (Stealth Group 1 with karma)
Spells: 5 at your choice. Suggestions: Imp Invisibility, Heal, Trid Phantasm, Ball Lightning, Levitate
Adept Abilities: Improved Reflexes 3, Combat Sense 1, Critical Strike (Blades) 1, Heightened Concern, Imp Ability Blades 2
Gear: Katana (Weapon Focus rating 1),
Money left after Weapon Foci: 91000 nuyen so plenty to spend on Armor, Vehicle, Lifestyle, SIN and other gear.
Hope this helps. I think it's fun to tinker with Chummer...
Editing in some afterthoughts:
Choose an Intuition based Tradition (Chaos Magic and Druid are the most common.)
If you skip Automatics you cold put those points in Summoning instead. I would choose a spec in Spirits of Man. Spirits are very useful and you would have enough dice to summon Force 5 Spirits at least.
If you want more drain dice, move points from Charisma and/or Strength to Willpower and maybe Agility to Intuition. (With added bonus even more dodge dice when using Full Defense.
Another way to get even better at dodging is to skip Palming and Disguise for Agile Defender. Dodging with up to 23 dice will make it a bit hard to hit you.
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Personally, if you are going to go melee I'd go combat senses [6] as avoiding being shot while closing is your biggest challenge.
Combine that with high reaction/intuition and a third stat (usually Agile Defender gets thrown here since you want your AGI as high as possible).
Because you want to close as fast as possible you want high AGI (Elf)... the wakayambi metavarient possibly.
Alternately, since this is a melee build, satyr is a possibility as their run rate coupled with bod/str increase all work for you.
Of course, if you want prototype human, then meta E (human) is probably where you are going.
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My try at building what you maybe want: As is (s)he has 19 dice with the Katana and does 11P damage. (And that goes for Spirits too!) ;D Thanks to uber initiative almost guaranteed to have 3 (possibly 4) passes a turn. I would not want to have to fight this guy...
Priorities: Attributes A, Money B, Magic C, Meta D, Skills E
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 6(8 ), Rea 5(8 ), Str 5(7), Cha 3, Int 5(6), Log 2, Wil 3, Magic 6, Edge 2, Init: 14+4D6
Qualities: Prototype Transhuman and 25 points of negatives
Augmentations: Muscle Toner 2, Muscle Augmentation 2, Cerebellum Booster 1
Skills: (Better than I expected at start)
16(18) Blades 6 + spec Swords (included +2 from adept ability)
10(12) Automatics 2 + spec Submachine Guns
12 Spellcasting 6
7(9) Perception 1 + spec Visual
4 Etiquette 1 (karma)
9 Sneaking (Stealth Group 1 with karma)
9 Palming (Stealth Group 1 with karma)
7 Disguise (Stealth Group 1 with karma)
Spells: 5 at your choice. Suggestions: Imp Invisibility, Magic Fingers, Trid Phantasm, Ball Lightning, Levitate
Adept Abilities: Improved Reflexes 3, Combat Sense 1, Critical Strike (Blades) 1, Heightened Concern, Imp Ability Blades 2 (this last one may be over the top...)
Gear: Katana (Weapon Focus rating 1),
Money left after Weapon Foci: 91000 nuyen so plenty to spend on Armor, Vehicle, Lifestyle, SIN and other gear.
Hope this helps. I think it's fun to tinker with Chummer...
If you are only going to get 18 skill points:
Spellcasting 6
Summoning 6
Blades 6
The specializations can wait for post chargen.
manabolt or manaball should be in every spellcaster's repertoire IMHO.
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Because you want to close as fast as possible you want high AGI (Elf)... the wakayambi metavarient possibly.
Alternately, since this is a melee build, satyr is a possibility as their run rate coupled with bod/str increase all work for you.
Her name is Snowflake and she is very silly. 40mph foot speed at a jog, able to leap a two story building without even rolling dice.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23876.msg443323#msg443323
Did I mention the monowhip?
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@ FancyDerek
The specializations are actually a lot of Karma (7) and takes forever to train (1month). I wouldn't want to be without Perception, arguably the most used skill. (Especially with the no surprise clause in Combat Sense).
I agree though that Summoning is a Very strong skill. It wasn't mentioned specifically by OP so I skipped it. 18 skillpoints is not much and you have to prioritize...
I have since edited in a suggestion for summoning.
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Some of these builds are getting into painful territory. A gish with MAG C isn't a gish.
This is what I was talking about when I said it was trying to do too much. Sure you might be able to find a build that accommodates it all, but what actually winds up on the page is actually rather shitty because it's making too many sacrifices to fill too many jobs.
manabolt or manaball should be in every spellcaster's repertoire IMHO.
stunbolt/stunball >>>>
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ok, well if these builds aren't very good, can you recommend a good sword-based PhysAdept build?
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ok, well if these builds aren't very good, can you recommend a good sword-based PhysAdept build?
I'm on a mac and refuse to do the 40-step install for hummer, but I'll write one up in the next day or so. There have been good pure PhysAd archetypes given in this thread already tho.
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Trade out the Knives for Swords and you're on your way. As you get karma you can quickly expand the B&E or Social skills.
I specifically went for simple over effective with this character. There are more optimal power or augmentations that will get you a few more dice here or there. But this build doesn't care about Background Count, nothing to fiddle with, just pick up and go.
If you're a "Melee First" kind of character you'll want either the Power Rapid Draw or the Martial Art that lets you quick draw swords. Either is easily fit into the build. Mentor Spirit, Negative Qualities, Knowledge Skills and Contacts are all easily swapped around to whatever fits your character idea best.
== Info ==
Movement: 18/36
Karma: 4
Human
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 10
Lift/Carry: 10 (105 kg/70 kg)
Memory: 4
Nuyen: 290
== Priorities ==
Metatype: E - Human
Attributes: A - 24 Attributes
Special: B - Adept, Magician, or Technomancer
Skills: D - 22 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: C - 140,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 6 (9)
REA: 5 (8)
STR: 5 (7)
CHA: 5
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
MAG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 5.01
Initiative: 10 (13) + 4d6
Rigger Initiative: 13 + 4d6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 13 + 4d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Limits ==
Physical: 9
Mental: 4
Social: 7
Custom Ballistic Mask [+2] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral: 7
== Active Skills ==
Blades : 6 [Knives] Pool: 16 (18)
Running : 1 Pool: 8
Intimidation : 1 Pool: 8
Perception : 6 Pool: 11
Pistols : 6 [Revolvers] Pool: 15 (17)
Sneaking : 6 Pool: 15
== Knowledge Skills ==
English : N Pool: 0
Military : 3 Pool: 8
Small Unit Tactics : 6 Pool: 11
Spanish : 3 Pool: 8
== Contacts ==
; Fixer (5, 1)
; Coyote (3, 3)
; Street Doc (2, 1)
== Qualities ==
Adept
Astral Beacon
Distinctive Style
Family Curse
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Mentor Spirit (Thunderbird)
Phobia (Uncommon, Mild) (Confinment)
Prejudiced (Specific, Biased) (Aztechnology)
Prototype Transhuman
SINner (National) (Aztlan)
Superhuman Psychosis
== Powers ==
Critical Strike (Blades)
Hang Time Rating: 1
Improved Reflexes 3
Magic Sense
Nimble Fingers
Wall Running
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Datajack - Alpha
Muscle Augmentation Rating 2 - Used
Muscle Toner Rating 3 - Used
Orthoskin Rating 2
Smartlink- Alpha
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket12
Custom Ballistic Mask2
+Gas Mask
+Single Sensor Rating 2
+Ultrasound Rating 2
== Weapons ==
Combat Knife
+Personalized Grip
Pool: 16 (18) Accuracy: 7 DV: 11 PAP: -3 RC: 4
Ruger Super Warhawk
+Personalized Grip
+Smartgun System, Internal
+Speed Loader
+Speed Loader
+Speed Loader
Pool: 15 (17)Accuracy: 8DV: 9PAP: -2RC: 4
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 8Accuracy: 9DV: 7SAP: -RC: 4
== Gear ==
Ammo: APDS (Heavy Pistols) x10
Ammo: Explosive Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x10
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Heavy Pistols) x10
Cheap Pre-paid Commlink x5
Contacts Rating 3
+Flare Compensation
+Image Link
+Vision Magnification
Earbuds Rating 3
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Fake SIN (Maria) Rating 3
+Fake License (Adept License) Rating 3
+Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 3
+Fake License (Restricted Cyberware License) Rating 3
Monocle Rating 4
+Thermographic Vision
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
Survival Kit
== Vehicles ==
Yamaha Growler (Off-Road Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
== Karma Expenses ==
-10 Nuyen
-15 +1 Body
-2 +1 Intimidation
-2 +1 Running
-17 Positive Qualities
+25 Negative Qualities
4 Karma Remaining
Mechanical Notes: The intention here was simplicity. Just woke up from the tank kind of character. Background count, what's that? Juggling the Powers and 'ware, possibly adding minor boost drugs and changing around the qualities a bit would result in a “Better” character.
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I don't think you can put "used" bioware in the Transhuman "part". And you can't ever upgrade the bioware that's in the Transhuman "part" of your body. What's there when you were "created" is it. Of course more cyber and bio can be installed in your body, just not in the transhuman part (pay essence as normal).
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I don't think you can put "used" bioware in the Transhuman "part". And you can't ever upgrade the bioware that's in the Transhuman "part" of your body. What's there when you were "created" is it. Of course more cyber and bio can be installed in your body, just not in the transhuman part (pay essence as normal).
"Used" or "Omega" quality ware in PT is RAW. Some tables houserule otherwise. Chummer doesn't break down what 'ware is PT and what isn't. From memory the Orthoskin and one of the Muscle things added up to 1.0 and the other Bioware (and Cyberware) counted as regular essence and Magic loss.
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I don't think you can put "used" bioware in the Transhuman "part".
You absolutely can. "Used" in no way requires being pulled out of another metahuman body.
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Love that knife adept, Hobbes. Excellent build and flavour.