Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: freddieflatline on <04-07-16/1046:46>
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Hey has anybody ever made a full conversion cyborg using the 5e rules? Just wondering. I am thinking of doing it as an experiment to see how much it costs.
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In 5th? Nope, mostly because there's no CCU in 5th yet, so you'd have to convert some 4th Edition gear to make it work. I'd expect it to end up around a cool mill or so, all told.
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Yeah I can see it costing that much as you would need Delta ware for the character to have any sort of essence left.
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CCU? Not familiar with that one.
Anywho, I considered this once upon a time. Four cyberlimbs, cybertorso, cyberskull. But thing is, there's still a coherent network of meat mixed in, so it's more Darth Vader, less Motoko Kusanagi. I don't know a more extensive option.
That said, availability is an issue starting off.
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4th edition gave an option for I believe about a quarter million nuyen you could turn yourself into a brain in a jar and jack into drone bodies
theres two ways of going about the cyberlimbs way
adaspin
way of the burn out
bio compatability cyberware
for about 121,250 nuyen or 221,250 nuyen if you want agi 6 str 5 and 4.25 essence you can have all the limbs at standard grade
leaving you with .75 essence left for other stuff like initiative boosters cause if you go less than 1 essence you burn out and lose the burn out way bonus I believe
another option is
adaspin
bio compatability cyberware
and alpha grade limbs for about 137,250 or 257,250 if you want agi 6 str 5 and 4.25 essence with about 1.74 essence left as you dont have to worry about burning out and can go below 1 essence
Alternatively in boston lockdown book theres a cyber suite BTH: Better Than Human for 4.5 and 275 000 nuyen give you 2 cyber arms 2 cyber legs orthoskin 2 reaction enchancers 3 and synaptic booster 1 but you cant really put in anything else according to the rules and its avail 16 (only cause of reaction enhancers 3 tbh) so you would need the restricted gear
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And what a lot of people forget is the side effects from 4e for a jarhead....
A jarhead that started life as a regular person had a 'life span" measured in weeks. (about 6 to 10) before the mental stress drove the brain to a psychotic break, leading to it killing everything around it, before itself...
(AKA: if you took a runner and got rid of the meat and just kept the head, 6 to 10 weeks before your mind is mush)
If they used a "fresh" brain (and this should disturb you), then the life span was measured in months (but still less then a year).
The key wording here is 'fresh', as in 'not aware of the human condition'....... (so.. figure that one out).
In essence, Jar-heads had less of a life span then Cyber-zombies. Which kinda makes sense as a jar-head has (generally speaking) much more extensive augmentations then a typical CZ (they ARE just a brain in a jar after all).
Rooks has the closest you can get until they re-release the jar-head stats again... but with CFD out there, and the state of nanotech, this MAY be something they gets left by the edition wayside....
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Besides: Cyberborgs aren't actually needed anymore now that you can have an E-Ghost inside an Anthro drone. No Essence limitation anymore.
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Or jump in to a walker drone or bunch of dobermans linked to a rcc
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Besides: Cyberborgs aren't actually needed anymore now that you can have an E-Ghost inside an Anthro drone. No Essence limitation anymore.
Aren't E-Ghosts NPC only alongside Proto/Zeno-Sapients?
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It's a bit hidden in the fluffy parts of the chapter:
"In terms of rules, e-ghosts are handled like metasapient AIs [...] Gamemasters and players can choose to create an e-ghost character based on a deceased or living character from the Shadowrun canon or base the e-ghost on an original character if they choose." p.161
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However, for the PC creation rules, they say metasapient only, so no e-ghosts.
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Actually what they say is:
Only metasapient AIs can be player characters, and they must be created using the Priority, Sum to Ten, or the Point Buy systems. The Karma cost for creating a metasapient AI is 180 Karma. AI characters cannot be created using the Life Module build system. AI characters are advanced with Karma after character creation using the rules on p. 103, SR5. The rules governing proto- and xenosapients are presented below to help gamemasters design and build NPC AIs. As is always the case with NPCs, the chances of running into one that is either well behind or well ahead of the power level of character generation are high.
But: "In terms of rules, e-ghosts are handled like metasapient AIs" (p.161)
E-ghosts are actually separate from AI's and only use the same rules.
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Ah. Thought they were their own thing.
In that case, be an e-ghost and buy an iDoll.
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That is kind of cool that you can build the Major. Just have her be an eghost. ;D
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iDolls are super fragile, mind, so if you're planning on being a fighter, not net support, a heavily modified Kenchiku-Kikai.
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CCU ?
See Augmentation page 163 under "Cranial Containment Unit (CCU)".
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Oh! Nice catch, so there ARE two character options for that... interesting.
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CCU ?
See Augmentation page 163 under "Cranial Containment Unit (CCU)".
How would you convert it to 5ed?
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theres two ways of going about the cyberlimbs way;
4 options, really.
adapsin
augmentation bundles
way of the burnout
biocompatability: cyberware
Alternatively in boston lockdown book theres a cyber suite ...
Not sure about anyone else, but the option of lower limbs + torso, or full limbs without a torso, comes across as a bit of a joke.
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why you need a cybertorso other than capacity?
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> full conversion cyborg
For all the reasons that implies.
Otherwise you may as well stop before you are scraps of (meta)human in a metal body.
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The CCU was good for 4th, but with all the options available in 5th it doesn't seem as viable.
If I were going for a cyborg, I'd do 4 cyberlimbs, cybertorso, partial or full cyberskull, cybereyes and ears. I'd make it mandatory that some of the torso capacity be used for nutrition system and waste disposal. I know the skull and torso are described as shells, but their versions in Cyberpunk were the same and that was how they did it for full conversion. With that much modification, it's not far fetched to believe they replace most of your insides too (why I say mando nutrition and waste mods).
This is 6.3- 7.25 Essence, so would require alpha grade minimum. I'd say your Agi and Str are now whatever the limbs are, with the caveat they all need to be customized the same.
However, if you wanted to convert the CCU, I'd keep the price the same (¥250,000). This is close to what 4 limbs, torso, full skull at delta grade would cost. I'd say it acts as a rating 6 nutrition system and waste disposal, with a built in sleep regulator. Downside is it drops you to 0.1 Essence. Upside is you can plug into any drone, and are virtually immune to Toxins and Disease. I wouldn't make all the insanity stuff mandatory, but allow characters to take appropriate Negative Qualities.
Throw in Prototype Transhuman, Cyber Singularity Seeker, and you're the next step in evolution!
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I would definitely NOT remove the insanity aspect. That's a really big part of being a full cyborg brain-in-a-jar, and removing such problems makes it that much more 'normal.'
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I wouldn't remove the mental issues, but I'd definitely tone it down. Jarheads in 4th went crazy in what, weeks?
Hopefully another 3-5 years of research has advanced the field somewhat, though I would definitely emphasize the effects of having your brain removed and effectively plugged into another nervous system somehow.
Hard to tell how it could be done, especially with Gamma grade ware now on the horizon, or what the effects and side effects could end up being.
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Months to years, depending on the brain used. The point of it was that you're literally a brain in a jar. No body, no senses, no nothing. That is by no means going to leave you anywhere near mentally all there. I'd leave it at the 4th Edition level.
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Body and senses can be simulated with a high-end iDoll for an approximately human experience.
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You'd think that senses could be replicated; if a jumped in rigger can feel the vehicle as an extension of their own body, wouldn't the same hold true for a brain in a jar connected to a control rig and jumped into a drone? You'd risk a serious Matrix addiction after a while, but it seems like it'd be doable.
And it is clearly possible; Thomas Roxborough (I think that's his name anyway) haa been alive in his condition for how many years at this point? Assuming he is still alive, of course.
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I wouldn't make it mandatory for the reason that TLEx is no longer mandatory for Move by Wire (that reason, I assume, is not forcing players to have 15 point flaw). I think it should be mentioned that cyborgs have a higher than normal chance for Antipathy, Cyberpsychosis, Superhuman Syndrome, etc..., but not require it (or at least give the player points).
I would say if you wanted to force a tangible drawback, do the Social Limit penalty (similar to M-b-W). Instead of twitches, they just have huge problems interacting with humanity. Which could lead to isolation, and justify developing the above flaws...
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Sadly, this all boils down to a simple game mechanic called.... Essence.
They have LONG established that Essence is the 'human condition', 'Soul', or whatever you want to call it that makes YOU, well YOU!
AND, they have already established that the farther you get from 'natural', the harder it is for the 'human condition' to stay. Until you go to far, and despite modern medical knowledge: You die.
Then they introduced Cybermancy. A way to bind the Human Condition to a nody that had no right to be alive.... with side effects. Namely inoperable Cancer.....
Now science is pushing it again with Jar-heads.....and again it will fail. Simply because it has to given the established rules, history, and lore.
You can't get much further from natural then being a disembodied brain in a jar.....
And Game wise, it just proves Science does NOT have all the answers. (Very fitting for a game with magic, dragons, and elves....)
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And it is clearly possible; Thomas Roxborough (I think that's his name anyway) haa been alive in his condition for how many years at this point? Assuming he is still alive, of course.
He is a mind of supremely exceptional strength, and even he has gone bonkers.
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Yeah, that's making the assumption Roxbourough is sane.
And regardless of replicating the senses (which would still be artificial, which our brains can register subconsciously), the brain in a jar has none of its own. Approximate is a good word for it. Regardless of how 'accurate' your DNI translates those artificial senses, it isn't right. At the end of the day, the brain is screaming to itself really quietly, "I'm in a jar!"
I'm honestly not a fan of the nerfing of negative ramifications for certain choices. I understand why they didn't make things like TLEx and Cyberpsychosis mandatory; it's because they didn't want to attach so many mandatory flaws to a main trope/character option that no-one would ever take it. But for being a brain in a jar, or a cyberzombie? Keeping those flaws is essential to the condition.
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Alright so destructive downloading it is!!! Though I still think that you would be crazy after it happened.