Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: chryx on <04-07-16/2159:07>
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I've recently started getting back into Shadowrun, and I've just been fiddling around with building characters.
Bison the Ork is a former MMA fighter. Unfortunately, a Grand Jury Investigation into match fixing revealed all the games he threw or had thrown to him, and ruined his career. Since then, he's been forced to run the shadows. He also moonlights as a Okichitaw and throwing weapon instructor. He would probably be a pretty good instructor, except all the blows he's taken to his head have left him a little less eloquent than most.
== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character Alias: Bison
Ork Movement: 18/36
Composure: 7
Street Cred: 0 Judge Intentions: 7
Notoriety: 3 Lift/Carry: 18 (165 kg/110 kg)
Public Awareness: 0 Memory: 6
Karma: 0 Nuyen: 0
Age: Skin:
Eyes: Hair:
== Priorities ==
Metatype: C(2) - Human, Dwarf, Elf, or Ork
Attributes: A(4) - 24 Attributes
Special: E(0) - Mundane
Skills: D(1) - 22 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: B(3) - 275,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 7 CHA: 2
AGI: 5 (9) INT: 5
REA: 5 (6) LOG: 1
STR: 7 (11) WIL: 5
EDG: 1
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 0.21 Initiative: 10 (11) + 2d6
Physical Damage Track: 12 Rigger Init: 11 + 2d6
Stun Damage Track: 11 Astral Init:
Physical: 12 Matrix AR Init: 11 + 2d6
Mental: 4 Matrix VR Cold Init: 5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 4 Matrix VR Hot Init: 5 + DP + 4d6
Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Securetech PPP: Legs Kit [-1] (Must be visible)
Astral: 4
== Active Skills ==
Con Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 3
Escape Artist Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 10
Gymnastics Base: 5 + Karma: 0 = 5 Pool: 14
Instruction Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 3
Perception Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 6
Running Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 12
Sneaking (Urban) Base: 3 + Karma: 0 = 3 Pool: 12 (14)
Throwing Weapons (Blades) Base: 5 + Karma: 0 = 5 Pool: 14 (16)
Unarmed Combat ([Martial Art]) Base: 6 + Karma: 0 = 6 Pool: 15 (17)
== Knowledge Skills ==
Alcohol Base: 4 + Karma: 0 = 4 Pool: 9
English N
News Base: 4 + Karma: 0 = 4 Pool: 9
Sports Base: 4 + Karma: 0 = 4 Pool: 9
== Contacts ==
Hopkins (Bartender), The Big Easy (CON: 4, LOY: 2)
== Qualities ==
Bad Rep
Biocompatability (Cyberware)
Insomnia (Basic)
Low-Light Vision
Restricted Gear
Uneducated
== Lifestyles ==
Crumbling tenement (Low) 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Bone Lacing (Titanium)
Muscle Replacement Rating 4
Orthoskin Rating 2
Sharkskin
Striking Callus Rating 4
Synaptic Booster Rating 1
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
+Attachable Gear Access
Ballistic Mask 2
+Flare Compensation
+Gas Mask
Forearm Guards 1
Forearm Guards 1
Securetech PPP: Legs Kit 1
== Weapons ==
Shock Gloves
Pool: 15 Accuracy: 12 DV: 8S(e) AP: -5 RC: 5
Throwing Knife
Pool: 14 Accuracy: 12 DV: 12P AP: -1 RC: 5
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 15 Accuracy: 12 DV: 16P AP: - RC: 5
Urban Tribe Tomahawk
Pool: 14 Accuracy: 13 DV: 13P AP: -1 RC: 5
== Martial Arts ==
Okichitaw
+Called Shot (Pin)
+Counterstrike
+Sweep
== Commlink ==
Sony Emperor (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 2, FWL: 2)
== Gear ==
Fake License (Restricted Bioware License) Rating 2
Fake License (Restricted Cyberware License) Rating 2
Fake SIN (Balrog) Rating 2
Throwing Knife x8
Urban Tribe Tomahawk x2
== Karma Expenses ==
== Nuyen Expenses ==
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Restricted Gear unfortunately only give access to one piece of equipment at high availability. You have at least two (Bone Lacing Titanium and Muscle Replacement). Change the Bone Lacing to Aluminium or bioware Bone Density Augmentation (rating 3 or used rating 4) and you should be good.
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Ooops. Cyberware grades aren't shown. The Bone Lacing (Titanium) is used.
Bone Lacing (Titanium) - Used - 1.73 Ess
Muscle Replacement Rating 4 - Alphaware - 2.8 Ess
Orthoskin Rating 2 - Alphaware - 0.4 Ess
Sharkskin - Alphaware - Alphaware - 0.2 Ess
Striking Callus Rating 4 - Alphaware - 0.16 Ess
Synaptic Booster Rating 1 - Standard - 0.5 Ess
There's even a bit of a story to the cyberware. The Bone Lacing is oldest piece, put in at the start of the career when Bison was semi-pro. He probably had some low level used Muscle Replacement at that point. As he started winning, he put in a Synaptic Booster to keep up. As he became a big pro and getting endorsement deals, he got offered a Muscle Replacement 4 to showcase the top of the line product offered by a major company. At the peak of his career, he got offered Sharkskin and the Striking Callus to showcase some SOTA stuff.
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I would ask what does he do as a runner when he's not punching things? As long as you're cool with having such a specialized focus, rock on. But, you've got minimal opportunity for growth with low Logic and Cha.
And Edge 1 on a combat focused character is, I'll say, brave of you. 11 +2d6 is also a touch slow for a character that really only brings combat to the table. Cram, Jazz, Psyche, Novacoke, Betameth, ect, ect will help out a bit here and there.
Unarmed is tricky. It'll suck up as many resources as you throw at it and not care about the rest of your build. It's possible to make a character that can punch out a truck, but how much truck punching does a runner team need?
Pretty sure Forearm Guards don't stack with more Forearm Guards. See also Gel Packs and Ares Big Game Hunter armor and just embrace the gawd awful SINless Cyber-Orcness of your bad self. I'd also just go with Intimidation over Con. You're not fooling anyone with 3 dice.
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I would ask what does he do as a runner when he's not punching things? As long as you're cool with having such a specialized focus, rock on. But, you've got minimal opportunity for growth with low Logic and Cha.
And Edge 1 on a combat focused character is, I'll say, brave of you. 11 +2d6 is also a touch slow for a character that really only brings combat to the table. Cram, Jazz, Psyche, Novacoke, Betameth, ect, ect will help out a bit here and there.
Unarmed is tricky. It'll suck up as many resources as you throw at it and not care about the rest of your build. It's possible to make a character that can punch out a truck, but how much truck punching does a runner team need?
Pretty sure Forearm Guards don't stack with more Forearm Guards. See also Gel Packs and Ares Big Game Hunter armor and just embrace the gawd awful SINless Cyber-Orcness of your bad self. I'd also just go with Intimidation over Con. You're not fooling anyone with 3 dice.
First thing: the Forearm Guards thing was a mistake. I looked through the list of items for the second Forearm Guards and couldn't find it, even though it was literally the first item on the list.
I think I'll swap out Insomnia for some addiction to combat drugs. Seems like it would fit a washed out, burned out MMA fighter better.
As for the rest, I think you're right. I'm seriously considering dumping Willpower and picking up Charisma 4 or 5, dropping the Sweep for some more character building points (and Agile Defender) and reducing the Gymnastics in favor of more social skills. It makes sense a former MMA fighter would be charismatic and high intimidation. I'd play him so that his low Log and Wil are the result of taking a few too many hits to the head, so he's got a bit of a glass jaw.
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There's pretty much no point ever trying to use a dice pool of 3, especially one involved in opposed tests.
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I'm also noticing that using drugs and dumping logic and willpower don't mix at all. They really, really don't. Not without Nephritic Screens, at any rate.
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Gymnastics isn't opposed. 10ish dice is usually enough to get you by. I wouldn't go below Will 3, just a personal preference. You could also move a couple points out of Body. Body 5, Cha 4, shuffle several points into Intimidate. The dice pool wouldn't be huge but you'd be able to stare down flunkies.
I'd also throw 2 Karma at Locksmith and get a Locksmith Toolkit when you can afford it. Hardware with a specialization in Alarms is also handy for B&E.
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I should note that Locksmith is a Technical skill, so I would be paying double for it being Uneducated.
Might be fun to get Charisma to 5, even. Easily done if I take the points out of Body. I could drop Willpower to 4. 5 dice on addiction tests isn't great, but doable. almost tempted to rebuild as an Oni.
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Sorry, missed the Uneducated Negative Quality. That quality is worth about 50 karma but they only give you 8 for it. Uneducated and Uncouth are both very powerful negative qualities. If you've got something you're not good at take a look at the Incompetent Negative Quality instead. Avoid those two qualities as much as possible.
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Thinking also of redoing the character as a human. I would have more skill points and edge, and less exaggerated stats. Or I could have a whole shit ton of Edge.
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Sorry, missed the Uneducated Negative Quality. That quality is worth about 50 karma but they only give you 8 for it. Uneducated and Uncouth are both very powerful negative qualities. If you've got something you're not good at take a look at the Incompetent Negative Quality instead. Avoid those two qualities as much as possible.
Oh yeah these are ridiculous traps. People look at them wanting them to model specific personality traits, and don't realize how they can accomplish the same goal simply with lower stats, without the crippling difficulties to future advancement.
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I think the plan with Uncouth or Uneducated is that you build your character around never taking those skills that are crippled by it. Then it's just free Karma, right?
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I think the plan with Uncouth or Uneducated is that you build your character around never taking those skills that are crippled by it. Then it's just free Karma, right?
That may be the plan but I bet 99% of people taking them aren't really clear on how crippling they actually are (which is very).
There's a big difference between "pretty bad at Etiquette" and Uncouth.
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Uncouth is difficult to work with, true. I would not recommend it for most characters unless the player is ok with being left out entirely when the team is in a social situation.
Uneducated, OTOH, is totally workable as a character concept. There are plenty of skills a player can build a viable character around that don't involve technical skills. It's not for every character obviously but hardly a trap.
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Computer is a Technical Skill, the GM can ask the character to make a Logic + Computer test to place a Com call.
Armorer is a Technical Skill, the GM can ask the character to make an Armorer check for anything involving a firearm that isn't shooting it.
Electronic Warfare is a Technical Skill, the GM can ask the Character for a Logic + EW check to use a Camera or drone feed.
Hilariously, Navigation is a Technical Skill, I don't want to know what an evil GM could do with that.
The list goes on. Don't ever take Uneducated. It's one of the many reasons Shifters get Shafted.
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Taking into account some of the suggestions here, I redid the character somewhat. Put in some more effective Shadowrunning skills - making use of my maxed out Agility to take basically all of the Agility linked skills, plus some Intimidate.
I like the idea of this washed up fighter being a trainer at a mobbed up dojo.
If the person running the game feels Incompetent (Engineering) isn't restrictive enough, it might be fun to do Incompetent (Firearms)
== Info ==
Street Name: Bison
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 22/44
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 3
Public Awareness: 0
Ork (Oni)
Composure: 9
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 14 (135 kg/90 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0
== Priorities ==
Metatype: C(2) - Human, Dwarf, Elf, or Ork
Attributes: A(4) - 24 Attributes
Special: E(0) - Mundane
Skills: D(1) - 22 Skills/0 Skill Groups
Resources: B(3) - 275,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 5
AGI: 7 (11)
REA: 5 (6)
STR: 5 (9)
CHA: 4
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 5
EDG: 1
MAG: 0
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 0.21
Initiative: 10 (11) + 2d6
Rigger Initiative: 11 + 2d6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 11 + 2d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 10
Mental: 4
Social: 5
Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Securetech PPP: Arms Kit [-1] (Must be visible)
Securetech PPP: Legs Kit [-1] (Must be visible)
Astral: 5
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 3
Archery : 0 Pool: 10
Automatics : 0 Pool: 10
Blades : 0 Pool: 10
Clubs : 0 Pool: 10
Con : 0 Pool: 3
Disguise : 0 Pool: 4
Diving : 0 Pool: 4
Escape Artist : 1 Pool: 12
Etiquette : 0 Pool: 3
Free-Fall : 0 Pool: 4
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 10
Gymnastics : 1 Pool: 12
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 10
Impersonation : 0 Pool: 3
Instruction : 1 Pool: 5
Intimidation : 4 [Physical] Pool: 8 (10)
Leadership : 0 Pool: 3
Locksmith : 1 Pool: 12
Longarms : 0 Pool: 10
Navigation : 0 Pool: 4
Negotiation : 0 Pool: 3
Palming : 1 Pool: 12
Perception : 0 Pool: 4
Performance : 0 Pool: 3
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 7
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 5
Pistols : 0 Pool: 10
Running : 1 Pool: 10
Sneaking : 3 [Urban] Pool: 14 (16)
Survival : 0 Pool: 4
Swimming : 0 Pool: 8
Throwing Weapons : 5 [Blades] Pool: 16 (18)
Tracking : 0 Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat : 6 [[Martial Art]] Pool: 17 (19)
== Knowledge Skills ==
Alcohol : 4 Pool: 9
English : N Pool: 0
Sioux : 4 Pool: 9
Sports : 4 Pool: 9
== Contacts ==
; Fixer (4, 4)
Hopkins; The Big Easy; Bartender (4, 3)
== Qualities ==
Agile Defender
Bad Rep
Biocompatability (Cyberware)
Day Job (10 hrs)
Dependent (Nuisance)
Fangs
Incompetent (Engineering)
Low-Light Vision
Restricted Gear
Striking Skin Pigmentation
== Lifestyles ==
Above a dojo 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Bone Lacing (Titanium)
Muscle Replacement Rating 4
Orthoskin Rating 2
Sharkskin
Striking Callus Rating 4
Synaptic Booster Rating 1
== Armor ==
Ares Victory: Big Game Hunter 14
+Custom Fit
+Gear Access
+Liner - Chemical Protection (6)
+Shock Weave
+Holster
Ballistic Mask 2
+Flare Compensation
+Gas Mask
Securetech PPP: Arms Kit 1
Securetech PPP: Legs Kit 1
== Weapons ==
Fangs
Pool: 17 Accuracy: 10 DV: 10P AP: - RC: 4
Grapple Gun
Pool: 0 Accuracy: 3 DV: 7S AP: -2 RC: 4
Shock Gloves
Pool: 17 Accuracy: 10 DV: 8S(e) AP: -5 RC: 4
Throwing Knife
Pool: 16 Accuracy: 10 DV: 10P AP: -1 RC: 4
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 17 Accuracy: 10 DV: 14P AP: - RC: 4
Urban Tribe Tomahawk
Pool: 16 Accuracy: 11 DV: 11P AP: -1 RC: 4
== Martial Arts ==
Okichitaw
+Called Shot (Pin)
+Counterstrike
== Commlink ==
Renraku Sensei (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
== Gear ==
Fake License (Restricted Bioware License) Rating 2
Fake License (Restricted Cyberware License) Rating 2
Fake SIN (Balrog) Rating 2
Grapple Gun
Lockpick Set
Throwing Knife x6
Urban Tribe Tomahawk x2
== Karma Expenses ==
== Nuyen Expenses ==
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Also, if people think it's silly to go with okichitaw for an Oni, Ninjitsu with Counterstrike and Kick Attack would be a solid choice. I originally wanted to deal with a lot of clinches, sweeps, and throws, but I'm just not convinced it's worth the points investment. Certainly not as a starting character. 19 dice to hit is pretty competitive with a lot of starting unarmed Adepts, though i guess they are fully capable of murdering spirits and other invisible shit.
As far as how I want to spend my money, and Karma, money would go towards buying Nephritic Screen 4, and then later, replacing the Titanium Bone Lacing with a more SOTA version to reduce its huge essence cost, and then buying better Synaptic Accelerators. Karma would go towards more Martial Arts maneuvers, and then buying up all of my cheap 1 rated skills. Jack of All Trades might be worthwhile.
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Computer is a Technical Skill, the GM can ask the character to make a Logic + Computer test to place a Com call.
Today I can place a call by voice. I can't imagine it would be harder in 60 years.
Armorer is a Technical Skill, the GM can ask the character to make an Armorer check for anything involving a firearm that isn't shooting it.
When I was in the Army I knew guys that barely add 2 and 2 that could field strip and reassemble a M-16 in less than 60 seconds.
Electronic Warfare is a Technical Skill, the GM can ask the Character for a Logic + EW check to use a Camera or drone feed.
That's easy. I wouldn't be doing either of those things as an uneducated character.
Hilariously, Navigation is a Technical Skill, I don't want to know what an evil GM could do with that.
Three words: Local. Area. Knowledge. If I already know where I'm going I don't have to navigate. And if I don't then someone else in the party does the navigating.
The list goes on. Don't ever take Uneducated. It's one of the many reasons Shifters get Shafted.
There is a lot of reasons shifters get shafted in 5th edition but uneducated isn't one of them.
Wheaton's Law. Don't be a dick. Uneducated is an 8 point negative quality that makes certain things a challenge for the character but only the GM can make that character unplayable. If a GM pulled that on me and that would be my last visit to his table, period.
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The examples I listed are RAW how the Negative Quality works. Uncouth and Uneducated are potentially crippling to a character if the GM enforces them regularly. Thus my (an others) advise to never take those qualities.
The RL Anecdotes you list are rational for allowing a default check or not requiring a roll at all for characters without a negative quality. In game terms they are "Aware" of the skill. Uncouth, Uneducated, and similar qualities specifically make a character Unaware so even everyday actions can potentially be problematic. That is literally the disadvantage of those particular Negative Qualities.
There are some qualities, Positive and Negative, that are mechanically poor value for the Karma. Uncouth and Uneducated are at the top of that list IMO and several others. Clearly YMMV.
For comparison, Incompetent is a 5 point disad and makes a character Unaware in 3 skills. Uneducated is an 8 point disad that makes a character Unaware of about ?15? Active Skills and countless Knowledge skills. Uncouth isn't much better "Value".
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Also, if people think it's silly to go with okichitaw for an Oni, Ninjitsu with Counterstrike and Kick Attack would be a solid choice. I originally wanted to deal with a lot of clinches, sweeps, and throws, but I'm just not convinced it's worth the points investment.
IMO unarmed has two Niches. One is as a back up for a character. You've got the muscle and bone and what not, why take a Blade skill when you can punch for as much damage? Normally you shoot things, but if you need to punch someones kidneys out you can. Two is for the subtle character, usually an Adept, that is a "go anywhere/silent takedown" kind of character. The massive cyber'd up Orc is not, IMO, subtle or "go anywhere". Might be at some tables though.
Is the Investment worth it? Could be for you and your table, depends heavily on the game. Sorry, not an objective answer for that question.
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I think my character's Throwing is actually his main combat skill. With his Strength, his throwing daggers and hatchets easily out range and out damage most pistols. The ridiculous physical limit is also a big help. Also, being able to pinpoint deliver grenades with a big throwing pool is a huge help, The main thing he can't do is spray areas with bullets to suppress, but he can make called shot (pin) attacks.
The idea behind the Unarmed is to rush and close with better armed but less skilled combatants so they can't shoot effectively. I've got tons of soak - enough to rush in and take a few hits. Also, crazy defense with the Agile Defender quality.