Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Desiani on <12-14-16/0149:06>
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I was looking at shifters and I don't really get how their two forms are split. Do you get the Priority you chose to both forms or do you have to split them among the forms?
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When you build a shifter you build the animal first. So if you follow the chargen indications in the CRB when you get to step two instead of chosing Human, Ork, Dwarf… you chose Equine, Pantherine, Vulpine… then you follow chargen as normal investing your attributes up to your maximum, chosing qualities, skills…
The little extra step is that you have to chose a metahuman form, not based on priority but rather at a karma cost. The cost are listed page 108 of Run Faster "Shapeshifter Metahuman Form Cost"
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Good so far, then the next step after you select your Metahuman form is to take note of all the attribute bumps that you selected for your animal form and make the same adjustments to your Metahuman form as well. Essentially, this should mean that your attributes in both forms should be the same number away from that forms racial minimum.
For example: Say we select a Canine Shifter and select Attributes at Priority E (12 attribute points); we don't want to pay extra for our metahuman form so we're staying Human
We distribute these points as follows: Body +4 (maxed out), Agi +2, Rea +1, Str +1, Wil +0, Log +0, Int +4, Cha +0
This gives us attributes in Canine form of: Body 5, Agility 3, Reaction 3, Strength 2, Willpower 2, Log 1, Intuition 6, Charisma 2
And we use the same adjustments on Human getting: Body 5, Agility 3, Reaction 2, Strength 2, Willpower 1, Log 1, Intuition 5, Charisma 1
Not a great set of attributes, but I'm just using it as an example.
Note that with this method, you are limited to one stat at maximum in your animal form, although some GMs might force you to pay attention to both. But you'll want to be careful, because if your metahuman form has a lower attribute maximum, you could accidentally spend more points than the metahuman form allows. For example, if we had selected Troll as our metahuman form instead of human (which would cost +20 karma), the racial maximum for Charisma is 4. If you spend 4 points on Charisma, your Troll form still can't go above 4, so that fourth point is lost while in Troll form.
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Thank you! :D it will be funny to be a house at who turns into a giant or minotaur lmfao <3
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No problem.
I'm guessing you meant "house cat"? To which I do feel the need to point out that none of the shifter types are domestic cats. The smallest one of them gets is Pantherine, which is the size of at least a mountain lion.
The smallest Shifter animals are Falcons or Foxes, most of the shifter types are larger animals.
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No problem.
I'm guessing you meant "house cat"? To which I do feel the need to point out that none of the shifter types are domestic cats. The smallest one of them gets is Pantherine, which is the size of at least a mountain lion.
The smallest Shifter animals are Falcons or Foxes, most of the shifter types are larger animals.
Eh, you could refluff a Fox shifter as a cat fairly easily.
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Canine Shifters can be modestly sized as well, so...
8)
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Yea, I got the OK to reflux the dog as a house cat. We are just changing 7 will to 6 and upping agi to 7.
The fluff is she was a stray cat and found a home.
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Canine Shifters can be modestly sized as well, so...
If by modestly sized you mean 40-60 lbs at a minimum: Medium and large breed dogs are the only known shapeshifters—no poodle or chihuahua shifters have been discovered yet.
A quick google search of the definition of a medium dog breed got me the specifications in the range of 18-22 inches tall a the shoulder and 40-60 lbs. Considering that a healthy Maine Coon (which is the largest domestic cat breed) caps out at around 25 lbs, I don't think the entry for Canine shifters is appropriate for a Domestic Cat, even a feral one.
Yea, I got the OK to reflux the dog as a house cat. We are just changing 7 will to 6 and upping agi to 7.
The fluff is she was a stray cat and found a home.
I think TheTeaMustFlow was correct, the listing for Vulpine Shifter would be a more appropriate equivalent for an animal of that size. The average Red Fox for example comes in at around the same stats as a domestic Cat, so I would base your animal stats on that entry instead. It isn't much of a change, but they have lower Body & Strength which is more reasonable for a small cat anyway.
You also need to consider what the "tell" is for your shifter type. All of the shifters have some sort of flaw in their Metahuman form that sort of gives them away as not being truly "human." I would recommend using something similar to the Pantherine and Tigrine notes. Distinctly catlike eyes (with the slit iris and reflective layers), and a resemblance to your breed's coloring; for example a common tabby cat with the mottled hair color and a faint impression of an "M" shaped set of lines in the hair right above your forehead (or even on the forehead).
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As a dog lover, the wording of the canine shifter's minimum size is a tad grating. Not all poodles are small dogs. Standard Poodles are about the size of a Lab or Golden Retriever, having been originally bred for the same purpose. Makes me think someone ought to make a Standard Poodle shifter character ( maybe as a Face?) But I agree that for OP's purposes, a fox might make a better match.
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As a dog lover, the wording of the canine shifter's minimum size is a tad grating. Not all poodles are small dogs. Standard Poodles are about the size of a Lab or Golden Retriever, having been originally bred for the same purpose. Makes me think someone ought to make a Standard Poodle shifter character ( maybe as a Face?) But I agree that for OP's purposes, a fox might make a better match.
You're right, they were referring to a miniature or toy poodle. Standard poodles are a more medium-sized dog breed. But the general statement still holds, no small dog breeds have become shifters as of yet in setting. Better example might have been Dachshund and Chihuahua. Those are both exclusively small breed names.
That comment about no small dog shifters is also one of the reasons I commented about there not being any domestic cat shifters. With all of the other Felid shifter types (Pantherine, Tigrine, and Leonine) you would think they would mention if there were non big cat shifters out there...
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Canine Shifters can be modestly sized as well, so...
If by modestly sized you mean 40-60 lbs at a minimum: Medium and large breed dogs are the only known shapeshifters—no poodle or chihuahua shifters have been discovered yet.
A quick google search of the definition of a medium dog breed got me the specifications in the range of 18-22 inches tall a the shoulder and 40-60 lbs. Considering that a healthy Maine Coon (which is the largest domestic cat breed) caps out at around 25 lbs, I don't think the entry for Canine shifters is appropriate for a Domestic Cat, even a feral one.
My Basset (a medium sized dog) was prretty danged small, and he was a 55 pound dog (but man was he dense - as in muscle dense). And was in fact smaller than the fox that visits our yard. Medium does not mean bulky after all... He was small enough that our House cat thought it great fun to pounce on him and pummel him with his paws. :)
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It's also possible for a Human to have higher Strength than a Troll (human with 6, troll with 5). But that doesn't mean that a house cat should use the attribute ranges of a canine that can go all the way up to large breed dogs.
Your example, Tym, is comparing your Basset, which was on the small end of the scale for a medium breed, and saying because he wasn't bigger than others that those animals should use the same stats as each other.
Cats are closer in scale to foxes than medium-large dogs.
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It's also possible for a Human to have higher Strength than a Troll (human with 6, troll with 5). But that doesn't mean that a house cat should use the attribute ranges of a canine that can go all the way up to large breed dogs.
Your example, Tym, is comparing your Basset, which was on the small end of the scale for a medium breed, and saying because he wasn't bigger than others that those animals should use the same stats as each other.
Cats are closer in scale to foxes than medium-large dogs.
Fair Point, Kiirnodel... I concede the logic. :)
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I have a maltese that is 1/16 poodle. Somehow he is smaller than most maltese, he weighs six pounds. Plus his veterinarian says my dog needs to be on a diet (less table scraps). He is four years old now and figured out a few months ago that there is animals on television. No more animal planet for us!
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That's my bulldog's favorite channel!
Course, he doesn't get off his couch to try to chase the animals.... or bark that them...
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Haha. I don't own a TV, but both of my herding breed dogs get really excited watching videos of working dogs with livestock on YouTube. Anyway, back to the topic, I am really glad this thread came along, because in spite of my efforts to try and make up something more conventional, the only really compelling character concept I've been able to come up with yet is a canine shifter shaman/theif with a personality based on my rescued ex-feral Rez dog. Might have to just do a fanfic ( though I suck at coming up with plotlines as opposed to descriptions) or something since nobody really seems to like playing with shifters and they're reputedly hard to keep alive. But at least it clarified how the rules work so I CAN build the character, if I ever get a little free time.
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The key to keeping shifters alive is to pick animals that don't have a high fur value...
"I'm a dog shifter!"
"Yea, no one cares, go get the newspaper. Good boy"
"I'm a Tiger Shifter!!"
"Really?!? Lets see!" <stuns the shifter to unconsiousness, ties it up, then proceeds to skin said tiger shift until it fails its regen roll>
"Easiest ¥30,000 a skin yet! No one shooting at me, no jungles to crawl through, no johnsons trying to screw me over! Hey Frank put a 'help wanted sign up for a Fox shifter next! Fox fur selling for $8k a pop and their small so easier to skin!"