Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: GunDrake on <12-17-16/1453:43>
-
In shadowrun every 10+ years new metahuman and intelligent races come into existence. What races do you all want to show up?
Here is some ideas that I want to play.
Kitsune's: Metahumans that can turn a anthropomorphic foxes. Kitsunes should start out with a choice of an magic rating or an resonance rating. Kitsunes should have a chose to take an extra magical tail quality, that gives them some type of magical benefit. Up to a total of 9 tails. And awakened kitsunes have created a new magical art of paper magic. The old world of darkness kitsune book has some great examples. Kitsunes should have something similar to Naruto paper bombs, but with spells.
-
Uh...they have those. They're called Fox Shapeshifters. They've been around at least since 3rd edition. (technically, one showed up way back in 1st edition)
And you can kind of do the paper-arts thing already using Alchemical Preparations. (with a Shinto Mage Tradition)
-
Yes, but GunDrake wants them to be anthropomorphic, have multiple fluffy tails, choose between resonance and magic, do Naruto style magic racially, and not be killed on sight by the other PCs / 2 weeks before the campaign by the GM. ;D
-
...and not be killed on sight by the other PCs / 2 weeks before the campaign by the GM. ;D
Why, whatever do you mean? ;p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaHEusBG20c
*hums* Fire...take you to burn...
Sorry, got distracted. What were we talking about?
-
Obsidimen
T'skrang (They are so much fun)
-
Probably never going to see those two appear officially, but that's why I'd like changeling rules that feel a little more complete.
GunDrake, consider making an aspected magician alchemist changeling.
-
Probably never going to see those two appear officially, but that's why I'd like changeling rules that feel a little more complete.
GunDrake, consider making an aspected magician alchemist changeling.
Agreed, why don't we have vestigial wings? Fully functional wings would be a nightmare from a purely anatomical POV, but vestigial ones are workable.
-
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwDsRmpOdUr5Sk3na-905BdP1iYlm2lOWOd92co2MrHxemV1z8) vs (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCa3YPypbZA6hTKOlSAajHH7owOHQPh_CNCZ2fVy2G5VCQwc2J)
Sounds like GunDrake is rooting for the first one, but actual folklore of kitsune follow the second. The concept of the fully furry anthropomorphic kitsune stems from the more modern animations and the like. And as others have pointed out, Fox Shifters already fill the role pretty well for the concept of Kitsune. They are foxes who can take on the form of a human, but their human form still has the fox tail, which is spot-on kitsune folklore.
I definitely agree with the idea that Obsidimen and T'skrang as actual metatypes would be awesome. Sadly, though, it probably won't happen because the Earthdawn setting isn't under the same licensing. There is a nice shout-out to T'skrang in the form of one of the Shadowrun Missions NPCs/Contacts. Simon Andrews is a full-body Changeling in the form of a giant man-lizard (See below). It would be cool to include some "ready-made" Changelings that could just be selected as metatypes. But I can't really think of any new PC style race types that aren't already covered in the rules...
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdZt_nxs-MfwnQgIbB3tTrJbmx9USWZJnYw77ra83I6ecw8iBPjg)
-
I can't really think of any new PC style race types that aren't already covered in the rules...
Last check, we're still missing most of the variant Infected ...
-
If you want to split hairs, there are technically:
3 human races
4 ork races
4 troll races
4 elf races
3 drawf races
8 base shapshifting races
6 infected races....
So that's 32 base choices before you get to nagas, pixies, sasquatch, centaurs and their ilk...
And then throw Surge into the mix!
Sounds like we have too many, as opposed to too few....
-
What's the third human subrace? Only metavariant I'm aware of is Nartaki...
By my count, there are:
Humans (2)
- Nartaki
Dwarfs (5)
- Gnome, Hanuman, Koborokuru, Menehune
Elves (5)
- Dryad, Nocturna, Wakyambi, Xapiri Thepe
Orks (5)
- Hobgoblin, Ogre, Oni, Satyr
Trolls (5)
- Cyclopean, Fomorian, Giant, Minotaur
So that is 22 metatypes for core "humanity" variations
Plus the Metasapients: Centaur, Naga, Pixie, Sasquatch, and Shifters (of which there are 10 variations)
For another 14.
So that is a total of 36 base races before counting Infected, which is an alteration to the base race. Although it can only apply to the "human" variations plus sasquatch. So it is really only 3-4 variations of Infected (Type 1, 1a, 2, or 3)
Plus anyone can be a Changeling, but again, that is just a variation on the base race.
-
What's the third human subrace? Only metavariant I'm aware of is Nartaki...
By my count, there are:
Humans (2)
- Nartaki
Dwarfs (5)
- Gnome, Hanuman, Koborokuru, Menehune
Elves (5)
- Dryad, Nocturna, Wakyambi, Xapiri Thepe
Orks (5)
- Hobgoblin, Ogre, Oni, Satyr
Trolls (5)
- Cyclopean, Fomorian, Giant, Minotaur
So that is 22 metatypes for core "humanity" variations
Plus the Metasapients: Centaur, Naga, Pixie, Sasquatch, and Shifters (of which there are 10 variations)
For another 14.
So that is a total of 36 base races before counting Infected, which is an alteration to the base race. Although it can only apply to the "human" variations plus sasquatch. So it is really only 3-4 variations of Infected (Type 1, 1a, 2, or 3)
Plus anyone can be a Changeling, but again, that is just a variation on the base race.
yea I keep miscounting an elven race as human, my bad....
But, there are more then that!
TOC of run faster
DWARFs 88
Metavariant Type: Gnome 88
Metavariant Type: Hanuman 88
Metavariant Type: Koborokuru 90
Metavariant Type: Menehune 90
ORKS 91
Metavariant Type: Hobgoblin 91
Metavariant Type: Ogre 91
Metavariant Type: Oni 92
Metavariant Type: Satyr 92
TROLLS 93
Metavariant Type: Cyclops 93
Metavariant Type: Fomorian 93
Metavariant Type: Giant 94
Metavariant Type: Minotaur 94
ELVES 95
Metavariant Type: Dryad 95
Metavariant Type: Nocturna 95
Metavariant Type: Wakyambi 96
Metavariant Type: Xapiri Thëpë 97
HUMANs 97
Metavariant Type: Nartaki 97
METASAPIENTS 98
Centaur 98
Naga 98
Pixie 99
Sasquatch 99
that's 26...
10 shapeshiter BASE races (without going into the differences of Panther to a tiger to a lynx...)
that's 36...
Run faster ToC
Bandersnatch 136
Banshee 136
Dzoo-noo-qua 137
Fomóraig 138
Ghoul 138
Gnawer 138
Goblin 138
Grendel 139
Harvester 139
Loup-garou 139
Mutaqua 139
Nosferatu 139
Vampire 140
Wendigo 140
14 infected races....
that brings the total to 50! And we are still missing AIs and Drakes.... And changelings (that can be adapted so far, that they might as be their own race for how unique they can be!)
So... 52+ race choices???
There is an old saying; "Too many choices is worse then too few"
Which I think we are getting pretty darn close to... Some days the argument sounds more like "I need my Snowflake to be more snowflakey then the next Snowflake!"....
And considering the way I have seen some people play their snowflakes... well lets say there are reasons why I don't allow some races at my table, as they provide nothing other then being a flashy billboard that says:
"ITS ALL ABOUT ME! ME! ME!! ME!!! Fuck you other players, its ALL ABOUT ME!!!"
Course, my group of players also has a nasty habit of skull double tapping the characters of players they get this way.... so yea, keep the group focused and on task, some of these "choices" and not "choices" at my table.
-
I submitted two new Human metavariants, but the bossman didn't bite.
Maybe later tho!
Maybe...
-
14 infected races....
Which book are the Caribbean Infected variants in?
-
There is an old saying; "Too many choices is worse then too few"
Which I think we are getting pretty darn close to... Some days the argument sounds more like "I need my Snowflake to be more snowflakey then the next Snowflake!"....
And considering the way I have seen some people play their snowflakes... well lets say there are reasons why I don't allow some races at my table, as they provide nothing other then being a flashy billboard that says:
"ITS ALL ABOUT ME! ME! ME!! ME!!! Fuck you other players, its ALL ABOUT ME!!!"
Course, my group of players also has a nasty habit of skull double tapping the characters of players they get this way.... so yea, keep the group focused and on task, some of these "choices" and not "choices" at my table.
Obviously people are free to play any way they choose, but I definitely lean towards the Black Trenchcoat style, which means avoiding anything that attracts attention. Its a bit difficult to avoid notoriety when a team is known for having a Nartaki, two shapeshifters, and Drake (picking examples at random).
Adding in more flamboyant, attention-grabbing races doesn't seem at all necessary to me.
-
Mind you, my group doesn't play infected, but we do use the other standard races. I guess we'd be more Pink Mohawk, but the multitude of races doesn't bother me, in fact I rather like it.
-
14 infected races....
Which book are the Caribbean Infected variants in?
There are Caribbean Infected variants?!?!
Fucken hell!! Just HOW many many Infected types ARE there?
And, anyone know a Fixer that has Flamethrower fuel on for cheap and by the tanker truck??
-
There's a few variants of Vampires and Ghouls (none of the others have them), located regionally around the Sixth World. They aren't a new type, just a bit altered. Gaki are the Japanese ghoul, Asabonsam are African ghouls, Busaw ghouls of the Philippines, the Abat vampires of the Philippines, the Pennangolan vampire of the Philippines and then there's the Caribbean vampire with a few small alterations (Sukuyan, maybe? Don't have my books on me so I'm blanking on the name)... I find it interesting, personally. It gives more depth to the disease. And it seems HMHVV as a whole has said 'fuck the Philippines' quite thoroughly.
Edit: they hate the Philippines worse than I thought; apparently there's also the Amanlanhig, another Philippine variety of Vampire. Seriously, what does HMHVV have against the Philippines?
-
I always wished there was halflings
-
SR went for folklore, not Tolkein. Halflings are, essentially, a blend of good ol' Germanic dwarves and gnomes.
-
Technically you can have a furry tailed anthropomorph via the changeling rules. Personally while I know the kept tail is accurate for kitsune lore it does bug me a bit from a game balance wise. That is for a race that is hated/hunted in certain places to have such a major red flag saying "I'm not human, elven, dwarven, etc) annoys me. Should have been odd eye colour or hair colour something that you can try to hide without having to hack off body parts.
Also not all of us play these races because of a "me, me I'm a special amazing being who can . . . ." some of us just love them the lore, the modern adaptations, everything. Heck I have an entire folder of fox pictures on my computer because I find them cute and I'm sure there are others who play elves, pixies and the like for the same reason I know one girl (doesn't play games) who loves tinkerbell and has a sticker of her on her ute.
Take the picture now please(http://cdn.lifebuzz.com/images/14597/lifebuzz-c9b22448cdf6d31b37aaedc1c3ba1a73-limit_2000.jpg)
More on topic while there are probably some races out there that haven't been included a lot of them are of the monster eat human variety not the we build a civilization one. Although I do admit I wouldn't mind seeing a few more like the naga's, centaurs who are completely unrelated to baseline meta-humanity.
On an utterly unrelated note I was amused by the comment about Naruto magic as I'm replaying thorugh the ultimate storm games at the moment.
-
Which I think we are getting pretty darn close to... Some days the argument sounds more like "I need my Snowflake to be more snowflakey then the next Snowflake!"....
And considering the way I have seen some people play their snowflakes... well lets say there are reasons why I don't allow some races at my table, as they provide nothing other then being a flashy billboard that says:
"ITS ALL ABOUT ME! ME! ME!! ME!!! Fuck you other players, its ALL ABOUT ME!!!"
Course, my group of players also has a nasty habit of skull double tapping the characters of players they get this way.... so yea, keep the group focused and on task, some of these "choices" and not "choices" at my table.
I'm of the opinion that it is caused by rote-ness.
Everything else in/about the game has become regulated(for what/however reasons) that the only thing they can change is race.
That doesn't exclude the peeps out there with serious frozen water issues.
-
Eh, if you can't manage to carve out some individuality in the shadows between the massive number of described regulations...
... well maybe playing in the 6th world isn't the best fit for you ;)
-
Wait Sipowitz, you're saying 30+ base races, over 50 weapons, 100+ pieces of ware, 50+ magical abilities, 7 base archtypes, and NO limitations on appreance, morals, ethics, or actions "Rote"????
I don't think that word means what you think it means :D
If you want to talk Rote games, go look at DnD 4e.... everything is boiled down to 2 choices per class, with each class being a different flavor of the dame thing!
-
Yeah more races adds exactly nothing to the game imho.
But that's what being a Changeling is for, right?
-
Dnd 4e was a nightmare. Bleh.
-
Reaver, there can never be such a thing as too much gear.
Although, I do have to say there's only 12 base races in my mind (Humans, Trolls, Orks, Dwarfs, Elves, Naga, Sasquatch, Centaur, Pixies, AI, Shapeshifters, Spirits); everything else is just a variant on those (Infected, Metavariants, Changeling, etc.). Provided SURGE rules, that should be plenty to create your own races (keep in mind Nartaki are a metavariant that came to being through SURGE, you could easily make a SURGE into a regular Metavariant for your own tables).
-
I would include drake for 13 base races, otherwise I agree that the rest are variants on the base races. SR has way more race choices than practically any other rpg I can think of, it's one of the cool things about SR, and besides t'skrang and obsidimen we don't need any more.
-
Reaver, there can never be such a thing as too much gear.
That's part of my point :P
There is so many choices with what you can outfit your character with, it's conceivable that no two characters would ever be the same, even if you choose the same race and archtype for each character. This is Not "rote"
rote
/rōt/
noun
noun: rote
mechanical or habitual repetition of something to be learned.
"a poem learned by rote in childhood"
synonyms: mechanically, automatically, unthinkingly, mindlessly
Although, there has been a bunch of whining over the years about what it the "best" <insert object/race/quality here>.... which gets rather.... fatiguing.
-
While that may be technically true, Reaver, there's a psychological element to it as well. While this isn't a game you can 'win', few people really enjoy being ineffective at the roles they play. Which is why you rarely see a street samurai that specializes in holdouts, or a decker that uses the cheapest deck available so he can let his 'skillz' show despite the gear, or a mage with no weapon skills, no combat spells, and only a couple ranks in conjuring.
No, you're going to see a lot of street sammies with assault rifles, even heavy weapons if they can swing it. And a LOT of Predators. Why? Because they are solid pieces of gear, near the top of what you can get with starting funds/availability, and they work well in combat. And so on. So while there are, technically, a multitude of options, there are a few distinct archetypes that pretty much everyone plays into. If you're not, then that is a deliberate choice to be something outside the norm. The monowhip-wielding samurai is more of a snowflake than the pixie mage.
The difference is that there is more room for experimentation and customization in gear (although not nearly as much as there used to be), and there is decidedly less so when dealing with metatypes. Combined with the fact that the priority system basically shits all over people who want to make 'hybrid' characters (especially if one of those roles is magic or matrix) unless they are in a very narrow focus (a CHA-tradition mage doubling as a face), and the feeling of wanting more increases.
It is part of the reason D&D 4e sucked so hard, and why D&D 5th isn't much better. It is why you don't see this problem nearly as much in systems like Mutants and Masterminds or Champions. Why? Because in M&M or Champions, literally everything is possible, though it may take work with the DM to translate some things. Sure, I can do an M&M character that has, say, Cold Control powers, with fighting skills and appropriate gear. That's easy. I can also easily do someone with the ability of Nacho Cheese Control, and make them able to do crazy shit with that. And because I spent an hour making the character just to say I can, I have it out of my system, and play the cold controller in games.
See, sometimes people get an idea in their head, and if they aren't able to work that idea into something playable, then it is going to bug them constantly until they get it out of their system. Which means they're going to bug their DM about it, or keep suggesting it here, or other places. Sure, the idea might be as stupid as Nacho Cheese Control. But once it is out of their system, they'll be able to consider more 'normal' concepts.
-
As you said, some ideas are just plain crazy.
Which is fine.... up to the point you want to make 'crazy' a viable thing.
Expecting your nacho cheese controling guy to be effective is not a realistic thing - and you know it (or SHOULD know it!).
And the samething in Shadowrun. Expecting to play a quadrapeldgic martial arts physical Adept is just idiotic. And then whining that your physical adept is "broken and unplayable" - well I hope someone hits you with a phonebook... several times!
My point that SR gives you a ton of options to build just about any type of character you can dream up still stands.
Will every dreamed up character be 'effective'? Most likely not - but you can still do it. And whining that your broken character idea isn't effective has no bearing on the game. That's simply life.
-
Actually, the nacho cheese controller WAS pretty effective. Keep a ready supply of nacho cheese to use as weapons, sewing packets of the stuff into your costume to allow you to 'fly', and having secondary talents not related to powers (such as skill with a shotgun). Takes a bit of creativity and prep work, and certainly not as overwhelming as someone who controls metals, but quite effective if you are smart. Oh sure, it was nowhere near my most powerful character (that award goes to either the cold controller, the psychic, or the necromancer), but certainly effective within his weight class.
A quadraplegic martial arts adept is unrealistic, yes. But making a quadraplegic rigger/samurai (using an anthromorph drone), or an AI samurai (also using an anthromorph drone) are quite within the realm of possibility, and the way the system is set up actively works to make those things difficult as all hell to pull off.
-
14 infected races....
Which book are the Caribbean Infected variants in?
I believe it was Hard Targets; at least that is where the Caribbean Life Modules are from.
-
Wait Sipowitz, you're saying 30+ base races, over 50 weapons, 100+ pieces of ware, 50+ magical abilities, 7 base archtypes, and NO limitations on appreance, morals, ethics, or actions "Rote"????
I don't think that word means what you think it means :D
If you want to talk Rote games, go look at DnD 4e.... everything is boiled down to 2 choices per class, with each class being a different flavor of the dame thing!
Nope, I know exactly what Rote means.
Rote
1. routine; a fixed, habitual, or mechanical course of procedure
2. mechanical or unthinking routine or repetition
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rote (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rote)
That is why I said
"I'm of the opinion that it is caused by rote-ness.
Everything else in/about the game has become regulated(for what/however reasons) that the only thing they can change is race."
It is, imo, the same when you go to a Con sit down with your character and you get those sighs, eye rolls, and what nots if you are playing X and haven't taken the unthinking routine X is suppose to take.
-
Frankly, I'd just like some artwork showing what the creators actually think some of these races look like, particularly since they are often not the "normal" gaming versions. For instance, what does a Nocturne elf actually look like? How obvious is the hair/fur? The only picture of a character described as as Nocturne (the ex assassin in the Seattle set) looks nothing like the Nocturne described in Run Faster. (presumably had cosmetic surgery at some point, which is fine. But useless for helping anyone visualize the racial type).
From a gaming point of view, I'm mostly just not interested in the races that are so far from human norms of size/locomotion that they require special treatment in mission design. Otherwise, I'd love to have far more regional variants of metahumanity.
-
Well, hopefully the drake rewrite I and a couple others have been working on will put a little spin into that.
It's written from the perspective that an active drake is a dracoform first, and a metahuman "agent" second (but is still metahuman enough to retain who they are and what they value).
Y'know...instead of a runner with closest-superhero powers, like how drakes are currently written.
(and after that, is the SURGE and Shapeshifter revisions; because oh man are those freaky and confusing at my table as written)
-
It is part of the reason D&D 4e sucked so hard, and why D&D 5th isn't much better. It is why you don't see this problem nearly as much in systems like Mutants and Masterminds or Champions. Why? Because in M&M or Champions, literally everything is possible, though it may take work with the DM to translate some things. Sure, I can do an M&M character that has, say, Cold Control powers, with fighting skills and appropriate gear. That's easy. I can also easily do someone with the ability of Nacho Cheese Control, and make them able to do crazy shit with that. And because I spent an hour making the character just to say I can, I have it out of my system, and play the cold controller in games.
See, sometimes people get an idea in their head, and if they aren't able to work that idea into something playable, then it is going to bug them constantly until they get it out of their system. Which means they're going to bug their DM about it, or keep suggesting it here, or other places. Sure, the idea might be as stupid as Nacho Cheese Control. But once it is out of their system, they'll be able to consider more 'normal' concepts.
Only just got round to reading this thread but I'm guilty of this to a certain extent, sometimes I get the craving to build a really exotic pc or npc and have been known to spend several days in my books building them and making them work, just because something is a rare occurance in sr does not mean it never appears, on the contrary it makes that time when you do encounter it all the more memorable.
On to the topic of actually playing an extremely rare race etc. If I'm building one of these characters that some people might consider as a "look at me" the first thing I consider is the setting, lets say an anthropomorphic kitsune was a race for example and I had one it's not something I would likley play as a pc in mirrorshades or black trenchcoat groups doing normal runs, but not all games are set like this in fact some games can have situations where this kitsune would fit rather well.
Next is how you play the character, if your just being the attention grabbing special snowflake that thinks it's all about them, yeah it's a problem. If however you are able to get a feel for the character you can add lots of little details that add realism and depth to it without making the game "all about you" in fact it can even encourage other players to flesh out their manorisms, little subconscious habbits and things like that.
Next up is other players recognising the difference between when somone is grabbing attention due to acting like a special snowflake and when somone is the center of attention for other reasons. It sounds obvious right? You would be wrong, I have seen players singled out because the group EXPECTED them to act like a special snowflake so when they briefly became the center of attention for a completley different reason some members of the group treat the pc like he's a special snowflake from that point on.
This brings me to my final point, I wish people would be more accepting of characters outside the "norm", if I'm playing one like that it's because I really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable, not because I want to be the center of attention and the same is true of most of the people I have seen playing them, yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of... stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
-
Frankly, I'd just like some artwork showing what the creators actually think some of these races look like, particularly since they are often not the "normal" gaming versions. For instance, what does a Nocturne elf actually look like? How obvious is the hair/fur? The only picture of a character described as as Nocturne (the ex assassin in the Seattle set) looks nothing like the Nocturne described in Run Faster. (presumably had cosmetic surgery at some point, which is fine. But useless for helping anyone visualize the racial type).
Same here. There are a lot of things in shadowrun that desperately need illustration. We have pictures for most guns, but entire player-races are apparently not as important as the difference between an AK-97 and an AK-98.
-
The biggest problem with that is, of course, money. Art is *expensive*. I have a list of things that I want to see done up in art, some of which haven't been done since the game started in '89 but which are still kind of vital to know, but, well... no money. (Plus, I'm just a keyboard for hire, not an art director.)
Which... hrm. Now I wonder a bit about the payrate for the PDF line. I know that many of them have B&W art, which is cheaper than color, and is where new artists often get a tryout. There's probably room in there for some stuff.
Hrm.
Now I'm pondering things!
-
Can't you use the German Illustrations(From Pegasus) of the Races/Metavariants ? They're both in the 4A and 5th Ed Runners Compendium. Even in Colors
with a colored Dance
Medicienman
-
Can't you use the German Illustrations(From Pegasus) of the Races/Metavariants ? They're both in the 4A and 5th Ed Runners Compendium. Even in Colors
with a colored Dance
Medicienman
First guess would be "no".
Copyrights are tricky things... so much so there are armies of lawyers who specialize only onto copyright law!
My guess would be that the artists signed over the artwork to Pegasus, possibly for use in a single book, and not to Shadowrun or to Catalyst.....
Which means catalyst could have a lawsuit on their hands if they used the artwork...
Never, ever make light of the power of copyrihht laws! Multimillion dollar companies have gone belly up because of infringments!
-
Art is definitely expensive; on top of that, spot-pieces (your stand-alone pictures of weapons and other 'simple' objects) are cheaper than characters or partial pages.
I have an illustrator friend currently in the field (who has done work for Shadowrun this edition, no less), so I hear a bit about how illustration works from the artist's perspective.
-
Know what I want to see? Parageology for fragging 5th ed. There's so much cool stuff in there that I really, really want to see transferred over to 5th. Ukkru, Psilosen, Ithium, etc...
-
yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of... stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not. Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.
You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.
-
yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of... stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not. Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.
You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.
This problem is exacerbated when someone wants to bring in a unique character into an existing game. Whilst the players may be open to allowing the visually distinctive newbie you have to consider the characters - are you expecting 5-6 characters to suddenly overlook any issues and allow the infected / SURGE'd / centaur / pixie into the team no questions asked?
If its a new game then I'd hope that a quick chat beforehand would allow everyone to know what was being played and to adjust as required.
In short, all players need to consider everyone's enjoyment, including a player who wants to play a special character.
-
yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of... stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not. Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.
You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.
You just provided a perfect example of the assume he/she is a special snowflake mentality I'm talking about, grats for proving my point. It's like you skimread my post ignored everything I just said about NOT being a special snowflake, carefully judging how you play the character and the gametype/setting in order to be fair on the other people in the group and the gm and not kill it for them and mentally imposed the "lecture the special snowflake that there are other people mentality". *Slowclap*.
Further, ALMOST EVERY PC in shadowrun has their own challenges which can affect the group, it's part of the game, I find it incredibly dishonest that your ignoring that fact in order to act like the more unique characters are the only ones this happens to and that can affect the group this way when they clearly aren't.
I also love how we jumped straight to the new player wanting to play a special infected in an existing game when I specifically already covered that some characters aren't suited for normal games and that it's important to make sure your character fit's the setting for everyones enjoyment. Further this is true of every character type too, not just the more unique ones, so another rather dishonest/unfairly targeting/misrepresentative statement.
It's attitudes like this
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not. Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.
(9 snowflakes for 1 that isn't, really? I doubt the honesty of those figures). That kill character choices for people lead to the if your not playing X this way your doing it wrong mentality and exclude a good chunk of the options we have due to prejudice from a bad experience or two in the past, which we all have from something.
Maybe they should focus on making the race options we already have easier to include into a game and fleshing out the rules for them (Pixie weapons damage codes compared to normal for example) in order to cut down on the amount of exclusionary behaviour they can draw from others. Sure some of the classes need a bit of work, so do the attitudes of some members of the community and I don't just mean the snowflakes. It's becoming more and more toxic for people who deviate less and less from a "generic" or common build type and it's only going to get worse if it isn't adressed, the sooner the better.
-
You're right.
From my experience as a GM. Its more like 15 specialsnowflakes to 1 well played unique character. (And thsts 25+ years of GMing/playing. 2 to 5 games a week!)
From my experience, by and large, Special Snowflakes dominate the field when it comes the more specialized races such as meta-sapients, infected, and the others. So much so, I gave banned a few from being playable.
Now every now and then a player WILL come along and prove that he can make it work. That its not gandstanding and 'look at me' attitude. But those players are generally the exception to herd.
Generally, it boils down to the player looking at a stat block, reading some powers and going "this is cool! I want those abilities!" With out actually reading what the race is and how they are viewed in the world.
Some good examples for you on this very forum:
Naga with an assault cannon.
Pixie with a machine gun.
Now can you explain to me how a naga (with no arms!) Can use an assault cannon? Or how a pixe can use a weapon almost 3 times its size (I have covered this in an other post in the character creation threads - with pictures!)
And don't even get me started on the infected!!!!
And do you know what many of us GMs hear from just about every player of a unique race? "Its not a special snowflake"....
Sadly experience has taught us that:
If looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..... its a duck!
My only advice is to develop a rapport and level of trust with your gaming crew first, before you show up with 'Mr. Unique' to the table. Prove that you can be trusted to not play a snowflake and they may let you try... but just showing with a Unique race pretty much gets it labeled a snowflake from the start.... just like showing up drunk at work gets you labeled an alcoholic.
-
Eh,
personal experience only, but: Special Snowflakes aren't so much a problem for me as a player (having a bit of drama because of that can be quite fun - and if worst comes to worst a botched run is easier survived by a sensible played meta human that can hide among the masses than a one in a million surge freak), but when I GM those SS-players are exceedingly difficult to integrate into any given story, unless you tailor everything around them.
Again, personal experience only: A SS played well means usually that the player does his homework, knows the rules and knows how to not get in the way of the story. Yet those players usually don't bother with special races since they actually know how to build a concept character with the more basic ingredients.
There's little more to it: Be as special as you want, but don't expect the 6th world to make exceptions for you.
-
yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of... stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not. Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.
You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.
You just provided a perfect example of the assume he/she is a special snowflake mentality I'm talking about, grats for proving my point.
What I gave you is gaming reality.
-
Maybe they should focus on making the race options we already have easier to include into a game and fleshing out the rules for them (Pixie weapons damage codes compared to normal for example) in order to cut down on the amount of exclusionary behaviour they can draw from others. Sure some of the classes need a bit of work, so do the attitudes of some members of the community and I don't just mean the snowflakes. It's becoming more and more toxic for people who deviate less and less from a "generic" or common build type and it's only going to get worse if it isn't adressed, the sooner the better.
Oh, I agree, but in SR5 the metavariants and other exotic types "...are presented for your perusal, your gamemaster's approval, and your eventual demise, because sticking out like a sore thumb in the shadows is just asking to be hammered. So grab a character sheet, build yourself a freak, and enjoy the ride!"
Talk about condenscending. Sure, little Timmy, you can make your special snowflake, just be ready to die real quick for playing the game wrong. Needless to say, the advanced options don't come with a lot of practical advice for finding a niche in society or functioning as a runnner.
It's a shame. I would love even some fluff on how centaurs can or can't navigate stairs, how sasquatches can use text-to-voice on thier commlinks to communicate, how nagas can slither through pipes, etc. It's like they said "You want to play one of these things? Fine, here!", rather than spending any thought or effort on making it a viable option. What's the point of offering an option in the first place, if it is not really playable?
-
Maybe they should focus on making the race options we already have easier to include into a game and fleshing out the rules for them (Pixie weapons damage codes compared to normal for example) in order to cut down on the amount of exclusionary behaviour they can draw from others. Sure some of the classes need a bit of work, so do the attitudes of some members of the community and I don't just mean the snowflakes. It's becoming more and more toxic for people who deviate less and less from a "generic" or common build type and it's only going to get worse if it isn't adressed, the sooner the better.
Oh, I agree, but in SR5 the metavariants and other exotic types "...are presented for your perusal, your gamemaster's approval, and your eventual demise, because sticking out like a sore thumb in the shadows is just asking to be hammered. So grab a character sheet, build yourself a freak, and enjoy the ride!"
Talk about condenscending. Sure, little Timmy, you can make your special snowflake, just be ready to die real quick for playing the game wrong. Needless to say, the advanced options don't come with a lot of practical advice for finding a niche in society or functioning as a runnner.
It's a shame. I would love even some fluff on how centaurs can or can't navigate stairs, how sasquatches can use text-to-voice on thier commlinks to communicate, how nagas can slither through pipes, etc. It's like they said "You want to play one of these things? Fine, here!", rather than spending any thought or effort on making it a viable option. What's the point of offering an option in the first place, if it is not really playable?
They provide them because people asked demanded them. Classic case of "You got what you wished for". And no, they are not liable if they are unviable for life in the shadows, because THAT'S LIFE!
It's up to you as the special snowflake to find the way to fit in and adapt to the world, not the other way around. And if you stand out like a sore thumb? Whose fault is that??? (Hint, YOURS!).
When you play something like a Pixie what is less then 0.001% of the World's population THEN go into a profession that only 0.00001% of the world's population is in, EXPECT to be noticed!!!
I mean really, you sound like one of those whiners on YouTube who is 500 pounds with bright orange hair and make up that was applied by a spastic monkey complaining that people are looking at you ::)
If you want to play the "Unique" rare races (And then take that race out of its population center!) you have to expect to stand out!!!
Hell, MY personal last visit to Mexico everyone in Rio Grande knew who I was and why I was there in 3 days! Namely because I was the only Gringo in a town of 30,000 who was driving a truck with solar panels in the back of it! (I was there to install them in Olivos De Sol, a small community outside of Rio Grande) Now did I have a right to complain when complete strangers approached me in the town, asking me to fix various electrical equipment? Not really. (At least I got free beer out of it).
Same thing here. IF you are a 22 foot tall Purple People Eater, expect to be noticed. If you are the 22 foot tall purple People Eater that shoots people in the face for money, Expect to be talked to by the police.... And even IF you are NOT the same Purple People Eater, expect to be talked to by the police! It's called "Racial Profiling", and it happens today all the time! Why? Because it works, and it works VERY well when dealing with a Minority Race in a community.
-
They provide them because people asked demanded them. Classic case of "You got what you wished for". And no, they are not liable if they are unviable for life in the shadows, because THAT'S LIFE!
It's up to you as the special snowflake to find the way to fit in and adapt to the world, not the other way around. And if you stand out like a sore thumb? Whose fault is that??? (Hint, YOURS!).
I honestly find it real fun to try and find a way to adapt those weird characters to a world that is largely paranoid and cynical, especially of things they don't understand well.
Many of them end very badly, but those few that make it are fun to play.
-
Oh, it can be done....
But usually requires a comprimise that the player isn't usually willing to make.
A tiger shifter that never shifts to his animal form is virturally un-noticable to the general public and will generally pass as 'human' (or whatever his meta form is) unless astrally scanned. This tiger shifter tgat stays in his human form could do all sorts of jobs and never betray his true self.
But generally, the player has this Shifter "meowing" out at the first hint of trouble.... and regardless of how the run goes, has given the Corp an idea of who or what to look for... ("Send out the Watcher spirits to look for the astral form a tiger in the city. We find that, we find our Runner! There can't be THAT many in Seattle!")
-
One of my favorite characters is a fox shifter mystic adept. She rarely shifted to her animal form and had masking to hide the fact that she wasnt human. She even faked her aura as being lower than full essence so she could claim that her tail was a bio-augment.
-
I am in a game group playing the new Star Wars RPG campaign. We have a force sensitive Squib character that keeps poking holes in our patrol ship with his lightsaber! We are always patching holes or knocking him out! My bothan engineer, modder character want's to steal a Tie Phantom, but I won't steal one because the players and I do not want to take the consequences for stealing such rare prized prototype ship. Snowflakes characters are fun until they metaphorically shoot a dragon in the balls, or literally!
-
Rarity notwithstanding, a lot of the advanced character options would work fine for a more black trenchcoat game - better than, say, a massive troll would. Pixies are all but invisible in addition to being small and generally clever and resourceful. A canine shapeshifter has a second way to blend in.
But player-demanded or not, the implementation of some of the game options seems kind of sullen and half-assed to me. Sure, you need some non-optimal choices for verisimilitude in a game where characters are built with points, and not every option presented will be viable for every single GM's vision of the game world. But I think the various character options would have benefited from more fluff (how the rare shadowrunners within a group find work and keep from being immediately tracked down, what specific problems they face, etc.) and more crunch (modified lifestyle costs, etc.).
I don't go for the exotic types myself very often, and when I do, I will have an idea how the character will function within the game world. But they should give a bit more help to newer players, who might just see something and find it interesting, and not realize how disadvantaged some of the exotic options are.
-
the implementation of some of the game options seems kind of sullen and half-assed to me.
Yep. ::)