Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dal Thrax on <05-08-17/0121:27>
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This book seemed to fall off the end of the earth quickly. I wonder if some of the difficulty Catalyst is having in online review of related books, Forbidden Arcana (which got pretty heavily panned on Reddit) and the Tarot book result from dislike of the plotline. Many of the medieval castles of Ireland came to be associated with English rule. The Tudor conquest of Ireland represented a period of devastation for Gaelic culture. Queen Elizabeth oversaw the creation of the plantation system in Ireland. This planation system would go on to provide the model for the plantations of the American South. Catalyst’s Court of Shadows amounts to a magical version of the planatation system. It declares that the sum total of Irish folklore and culture amounts to a misinterpretation of a fantasy version of the Tudor court – that lives in a castle just to be completely sure what we’re talking about. Court of Shadows is about as subtle as marching in an Orange parade.
I'm Irish American and didn't really think I cared that much about Catholic/Protestant in Ireland. I got about thirty page into Court of Shadows and realized 1. this was really, incredibly offensive not so much due to cultural insensitivity (come on, we have Aztec priests ripping out hears in Mexico City in this game) but because it seemed to take sides in a modern conflict, 2. the only way I'd be interested in this plotline would be to help the court get guillotined and 3. that I was not really interested in spending any more money on or participating in this plotline.
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You've got to love it when an American starts showing pride in his Irish roots!
So the Tudor conquest represented a period of devastation for Gaelic culture? The invasion of America at the same time was a period of devastation for First Nation culture, and that's been a major part of Shadowrun from the 1st Edition and motivated the Great Ghost Dance. Why shouldn't the Irish conquest be referred to?
As someone who grew up in an area constantly under threat from the IRA bombing campaign (Aldershot bombing 1972 - my father was working a half mile away, and Guildford pub bombing 1974) I'd probably have more reason to get offended over any glamorisation of the Irish conflict, but I didn't get that from the book at all.
Doesn't mean I'm a fan of the inclusion of the Fae Courts either - Shadowrun has always meant a gritty, dark, criminal type of game, where individuals who've either fallen into the cracks or have taken personal umbrage at the corporations commit crimes as deniable assets. Going full high fantasy isn't to my taste and I'd gladly ignore this part of the storyline.
As an aside, I place no value in the opinion of Reddit - the site seems to be a Troll breeding site and members are applauded for being as negative as possible.
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You've got to love it when an American starts showing pride in his Irish roots!
Please do expand on that statement.
Or perhaps maybe not.
You did raise good counterpoints, however I believe it could have been done without a snarky comment to kick off the reply with please.
edit: Flamebaiting is really not in the spirit of things here.
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Not to go into the whole abuse of Irish by British and British by Irish, but saying Court of Shadows is taking sides seems a bit much. The faerie courts are as bigoted, evil and ruthless as the rest of sixth world.
And all in all it's a rather inconsequential book - if I wanted to play cool faeries, I'd play Changlings from World of Darkness.
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Well Court of Shadows doesn't want you to play Faeries, you're still playing shadowrunners hired by Faeries. Not exactly the same thing.
I like the book. Not to the point of having my players travel to the Faerie plane yet, but they've been doing a couple of runs in the real world for various factions of the Courts. I think it works well with the whole Tarot metaplot. Sure, it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but one thing I like with Shadowrun is the variety of stories if offers: you can have corporate schemes, AI masterplans, Bug threats, dragon plots and now Fae shenanigans. Court of Shadows is just another possibility, nobody is forcing anyone to use it if they don't like it. But I for one like to see Shadowrun attempt some new things, rather than just recycling the same old tropes over and over.
Regarding the OP, I think it's important to remember the book describes a Faerie metaplane, not Ireland. The Courts are a mix of various interpretations of Fae across the world, not just the Irish ones. There are Tuatha dé Danann, sure, but also Japanese Kappas and African Kishi. So I don't think the writers intended it to be any sort of commentary on real-world Ireland (especially since, in Shadowrun, it has turned into a totally different country aka Tir na Nog).
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You've got to love it when an American starts showing pride in his Irish roots!
Please do expand on that statement.
Or perhaps maybe not.
You did raise good counterpoints, however I believe it could have been done without a snarky comment to kick off the reply with please.
edit: Flamebaiting is really not in the spirit of things here.
Nothing snarky intended - It just seems that come March 17th EVERY American is part Irish!
St Patrick's Day seems to be almost a national holiday, despite being the patron saint day of an entirely different country.
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Nothing snarky intended - It just seems that come March 17th EVERY American is part Irish!
St Patrick's Day seems to be almost a national holiday, despite being the patron saint day of an entirely different country.
Less of a holiday, more of an excuse for everyone to get really, really drunk. (See also: Cinco de Mayo.)
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But seeing as we are now in May, so you can forgive me if the relevance of such a phrasing seems just a bit odd?
And yeah, St Patrick's is a big celebration, if not a full on national holiday in the majority of the US, which is not so surprising given it was celebrated by Irish immigrants who came over to the States.
In fact, the first recorded St. Patricks Day Parade was held in New York City back in 1760s, so this was before the US was even it's own nation.
In fact there were counted among their ranks in these parades Irish soldiers who were currently serving in the Britisharmy.
But back then it was more about being a demonstration of strength and solidarity among a growing section of the population who were at that time for the most part unwelcome in protestant America.
So for many it represented more than just reverence for a religious icon, but rather the coming together of people who were now far from home.
Nor is it limited to the States, you can find this celebrated in several corners of the globe, including Montserrat, Argentina and Tokyo.
Since then like many holidays it has become diluted from it's original intent, and much more commercialized and unfortunately has become synomonous with excessive drunkenness in many parts.
And FYI, not every American goes in for the whole 'Irish for a day' thing.
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Hey, I was under the (obviously incorrect) impression you were German!
(partly the less than hidden dig at Lofwyr in your tag, partly the use of boni, which is a German word, in your signature)
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Hey, I was under the (obviously incorrect) impression you were German!
(partly the less than hidden dig at Lofwyr in your tag, partly the use of boni, which is a German word, in your signature)
??
I am of German/Polish descent, but American born and currently residing in the UK, though I am not sure why that should make a difference.
Unless you were starting to wonder if we had Irish blood, which we do not.
Well except for that one bottle in the wine rack, but that was a gift.
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So the Tudor conquest represented a period of devastation for Gaelic culture? The invasion of America at the same time was a period of devastation for First Nation culture, and that's been a major part of Shadowrun from the 1st Edition and motivated the Great Ghost Dance. Why shouldn't the Irish conquest be referred to?
If I understood correctly, his point was that the faerie court allegedly rooted into Ireland ancient times is actually modelled after late medieval English stuff.
The equivalent in North America would be to call Amerindian shamanic groups "cavalry regiments" instead of circles and their meeting place "forts" instead of lodges because it's Far-West-themed enough.
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I saw the Seelie Court being modeled after A Midsummer Might's Dream, including a dig at Titania, not Irish culture as a whole.
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While the portrayal of the Court has varied quite a bit between sourcebooks, there is a good case to be made, that it does not actually rule Tír na nÓg. In practical terms the power lies with the Danaan families instead. Not because the Court and Lady Brane Deigh lack authority but because they are largely unconcerned or more to the point their concerns lie with matters of spirituality. Of course given the nature of awakened Ireland such matters can have a very real impact on the country. Still temporal politics is usually left to the Danaan families. (Despite this advantageous arrangement many resent owing fealty to someone at least initially regarded as an upstart girl undeservedly elevated to her station. Really a bit of a glass house situation, given that they are all upstart elven nobility.) These families and their right to rule have been written into Irish mythology. So I would argue the situation is quite different from an outside occupation: A group of natives has instituted a system of control by claiming divinely-ordained stewardship for the benefit of everyone. They also happen to be connected to an aloof fae court.
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Not read the book but Tudor would be Renaissance not medieval. Certainly by Elizabeth.
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St Patrick's is fine and dandy. No offense meant to anyone, of any nation. But let's be honest: it's about the beer, isn't it? Wearin' green and gettin' hammered, and havin' fun doin' it.
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I have a love/hate relationship with this book.
I love that it delves into and uses Faerie lore and is mostly loyal to the source material legends. Which is not easy to do. The legends vary across much of Europe plus some cultures with Fae like creatures in all but name. What is unknown about them is nicely and imaginatively filled out in the book with quite plausible Shadowrun oriented lore. The book is filled with interesting clues, tidbits, plot ideas, intrigue and mysteries. I like the art as well.
What I hate is that it's for Shadowrun, which is at its heart is gritty cyber punk. With magic, yes. But still gritty cyberpunk. Introducing high fantasy figures blunts that. Especially since the Fae in their native environment are comically overpowered per the legends compared to even a Prime Runner. Even Great Dragons don't have as much power as a Faerie lord in his own lands. On the physical plane it's different. Powerful Fae flopping around Seattle like fish out of water and extending their intrigues would make for interesting games. But visiting them, with their vast differences in culture, laws, and norms, would be like a being a European dropped into Medieval Japan. You'd be novel and interesting for a hot minute. Then some Samurai would get insulted and test his sword you on.
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SR canon is that the Provos won and got revenge for basically everything going back to the Ulster Plantation -- all land slated for colonization suddenly turned barren shortly before the Awakening, British Army units such as the Parachute Regiment were massacred, the Tories tanked in elections...
Oh, the PIRA leader at that time? Secret spike baby Liam O'Connor, husband of Lady Brane Deigh, leader of the Seelie Court.
I find it hard to see too many Unionist sympathies in that storyline, and that's before getting to the tone in some parts of Tir Na Nog...
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The short answer is I think the Court of Shadows is fine, if you don't like it, then it's totally optional anyways. Why folks suddenly feel the need to start making gross generalization is beyond me.
Getting the "snakes" out of Ireland is not something I celebrate.