Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Senko on <05-25-18/1710:35>
-
A question that occured to me earlier today (probably bought on by tiredness combined with a character in a webcomic recently giving birth). If someone was shaoeshifted into an animal form and stayed that way long enough to not only mate but give birth, Would the children be human or animal and would they be as intelligent as the human shaoeshifted into an animal parent or the normal animal parent? Or do you assume the physical change isn't complete enough to breed.
-
If you are talking about a Shifter, then the answer ia basically in the book: They are animals. End of Story. their natural form is their animal form and they can stay that way forever. They can breed with other animals in their species - but NEVER, EVER with humans. No matter how much they try.
If you are talking about someone under the effects of a spell, well that ends when the spell is no longer sustained (such as by sleeping). If the spell had been quickened, well... then he's got an issue.
Remember, the spell only gives physical characteristics - NOT knowledge. So the poor victim can't communicate with other members of the species he has been turned into, nor with his original species. He can bump uglies with that species all he wants - it won't result in offspring as he is not genetically compatable.
-
I thought you'd say that. Weve had enough discussions I'm starting to figure out where you stand on things. It's why I included the not complete enough to breed option in the first place. For me I'm thinking when your shapechange it's a complete physical change while sustained. Which is what the question deals with someone under a quickened shapechange to do this.
Ah well so far we have 1 not physically compatible anyone want to speculate on the kids intelligence/species if they were?
-
While you may get the shape of a critter, you don't have it's DNA. There's a major mismatch right there.
-
Magic doesn't function on the genetic level. The subject of a Shape change spell would be incapable of breeding with an animal.
-
This is more of a what if question not a rules one hence why its in general.
-
And the what if answer is that magic doesn't work that way in Shadowrun. Also, perhaps fewer comics on bestiary would be good for you.
-
I don't think you understand how what if questions work. Fine though if no one's willing to consider anything but these the rules I'll let it drop.
-
The thing is, once you are outside of the rules you aren't talking about Shadowrun and frankly your kink is not my kink and this isn't the place for that talk anyways.
-
Loki giving birth to Sleipnier, Galinthalas permanently turned into a cat or weasel depending on the version, the devilfishes daughter where a native American loved his octopus wife so much he turned into one to be with her, an unnamed Hunter permanently turned into a deer for gazing on goddess when she was bathing, King Lycan turned into a wolf permanently for feeding the gods human flesh. This concept is OLD and present in multiple cultures.
Even today there's lots of stories about it the chronicles of Narnia where King Rabadash is turned into a donkey as punishment for a year and warned it'll become permanent in the future if he goes beyond his lands borders, one we were assigned in high school English where a boy is turned into a cat and falls in love with a stray named Jenny who helps him.
Which doesn't even consider the ones where an animal or spirit assumes human form (Swan princess, selkies. Yuki-onna) and had a child with humans.
This kind of concept regardless of your personal tastes is very much a part of our history and Shadowrun is an alternative reality based on our reality. So as a what if question I feel this topic is very much justified. You're right about it being outside the rules which is why it's not in the RULES section.
-
ShadowcatX, there no need to make it personal. It's just rude and unnecessary. If Senko wants to consider some idea for some special plot then let'em, it doesn't hurt you or anyone else. Lots of great games come from random question like this, that was previously not in the rules. Just look at the tarot book.
-
So if you are a GM it seems to come down to a simple question (at least for me because I'm in Bioinformatics)
When you throw a shape shift spell does genetic makeup change to that of the thing you are changing into.
1) Yes. Then you can mate and your offspring will be the shape shifted species.
2) No. You can't mate because you are genetically incompatible.
You could also ask the question. If you leave behind a hair would it have your DNA or would it be animal DNA? The answer to this question would be linked to the former.
For my two cents, I don't think this spell would change your genetic makeup. For one thing you can still cast spells when you are shapeshifted so clearly you don't really become the animal. It's just a temporary magic making you appear to be one.
-
Senko you're right that things like this is very much part of our myths and folklore. However it almost always includes gods, powerful curses or magical creatures and/or spirits. A Shapechange spell in my opinion is far too common a thing in SR for it to bestow that kind of level of transformation. If you wanna entertain such an idea then I would say that you would need more ooomph than a mere Shapechange spell, such as mentor spirit level or a powerfull cursed artifact or something like that to facilitate the transformation, both are "allowed" to break the normal rules.
-
Well that comes back to what Overbyte said does it give you the body or the appearance. Most people I think are like you and go with appearance only. Me I treat it as a full physical change. Because to me it seems simpler for the spell to alter your DNA than to keep that the same but give you hollow bones (bird), ability to extract oxygen from water (fish), change your skin colour (chameleon) or dozens of other animal abilities (scent, venom, heat sensative tongue, etc).
Your right permanent changes are usually gods/powerful spirits but there are exceptions e.g. the native American shaman I mentioned above. Still that's the kind of discussion that does belong in rules on how a specific spell works.
-
ShadowcatX, there no need to make it personal. It's just rude and unnecessary. If Senko wants to consider some idea for some special plot then let'em, it doesn't hurt you or anyone else. Lots of great games come from random question like this, that was previously not in the rules. Just look at the tarot book.
Why are you supporting discussing illegal sexual acts on a forum where children are allowed to participate?
-
Why are you supporting discussing illegal sexual acts on a forum where children are allowed to participate?
The only one discussing Illegal sex acts is you ShadowcatX. No one else addressed it from that point of view, and you're still just making it worse. Get over your issues and move on man.
-
Well that comes back to what Overbyte said does it give you the body or the appearance. Most people I think are like you and go with appearance only. Me I treat it as a full physical change. Because to me it seems simpler for the spell to alter your DNA than to keep that the same but give you hollow bones (bird), ability to extract oxygen from water (fish), change your skin colour (chameleon) or dozens of other animal abilities (scent, venom, heat sensative tongue, etc).
I actually think that all those "extras" are just done with magic, like pixies flying.
-
ShadowcatX - please do not post in this thread again. If you have issues with a post, please flag it for the moderators to review.
SR Mod
-
Well that comes back to what Overbyte said does it give you the body or the appearance. Most people I think are like you and go with appearance only. Me I treat it as a full physical change. Because to me it seems simpler for the spell to alter your DNA than to keep that the same but give you hollow bones (bird), ability to extract oxygen from water (fish), change your skin colour (chameleon) or dozens of other animal abilities (scent, venom, heat sensative tongue, etc).
I actually think that all those "extras" are just done with magic, like pixies flying.
Technically speaking the whole things done with magic :) still this is comes into the question of whether a shapechange spell allows sense magic checks as it's a sustained spell and in your application it's also actively allowing flight or other animal abilities. Which is part of why I like the full physical change it reduces the active magic for someone to pick up and if you stay that way long enough you'll even start to smell like an animal rather than a human. Not sure how long exactly that takes but I recall one show with coloured golf balls demonstrating a dog's scent where they went from vivid red where the guy was standing to white in the distance.
-
It is your body you change not your DNA, why? Because of two things in the spell description. You retain human consciousness, which you would not if your DNA changed because that would change your brain as well. Two, there's a restriction on what you can change into that is body +/-2, which to me clearly suggests that it is a bodily change not a genetic change, since such a restriction would be meaningless if your DNA changed, simply put if you have the dna of a gnat you're a gnat, if you have the dna of an elephant you're an elephant.
Therefore I still say you need magic that breaks the rules, hence the need for powerful artifacts, mentor spirits or some such. But it's your game of course, so your rules.
-
I’d say that no, the basic spell would not allow you to break the barriers of the species between metahumanity and beasts