Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Seras on <06-16-18/1846:27>
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Drugs are much cheaper than ware in Shadowrun and it is metioned that gangs and other start up and wanna bees use them, because the cannot afford anything else.
I am thing about gang characters who use biocomps and injectors with cram/jazz/ Kamikaze.
Now obiously they would not be using the drung all the time ( the rules do not work like that ), more like wireless activation before action.
Naturally beeing low life they would also distribute it on the street to make some Nuyen..
What is your experiance on drugs vs. ware.
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Might work, until the character gets addicted to their own products.
Speedballing, or cocktailing, will get them hooked quicker.
Dealing might get your character unwanted attention, if not busted by the cops.
Using custom drugs might be an option.
I know there is a thread in the Gear section with some good blends.
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It's very doable, the drug rules with a little preparation are in general pretty easy to deal with.
The only downside is you need some preptime to activate. Which isn't a big if your attacking but it's fairly serious if your defending.
Be careful not to go to far. The serious combat drug come with unsoakable stun when you come down, anything that has i would stay away from it's very good way to end up dead. Forget k12 even exists.
Personally I think ware is the safer solution, but drugs are damn cheep, and fights just aren't usually that common.
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Drugs in Shadowrun are inferior to augmentation - rather than giving you a permanent boost, they give you a temporary boost, and then a crash. They are a viable way for a GM to make an encounter with gangers or security guards more dangerous without giving them unrealistic stats or gear. Cram, Jazz, Kamikaze, and Nitro are all good choices for this. For PC's, it is typically not worth it, although an injector with a custom-designed drug (using the rules in Chrome Flesh) could be useful to make a character even more fearsome, in an emergency. Regular use, on the other hand, will introduce the character to Shadowrun's punishing addiction rules.
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In theory, it works. On paper it works. In practice, it falls apart.
Now, this really depends on play style and the table. But generally drugs are good for 'burst' encounters where the User can get High, unload on a target, then rest up.
This doesn't work in practice on a run. On a run, you are generally spending large amounts of time moving from event to event - which players forget about.
For example: the User loads up on chems outside the lobby before he has to sneak in and get to the 15th floor Management offices. Around the game table this could be over in 3 to 5 dice rolls. In GAME, this could be 40 to 70 minutes of sneaking through empty rooms avoiding drones, censores and guards! By the time actual combat comes up, it could be 3 hours after he took them - meaning not only are they not effective, he's crashing. But from a player perspective, its only been 5 minutes....
So, they really are a case of "know your table".
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i dont know i think it can mostly work.
they can take the qualities and 'ware that make them pretty immune to addiction
a bad roll can screw them but edge, right?
narco drops the stun damage to 4, which is easily manageable.
anyhoo i think it could be viable, depending on the role you're building for.
example, Tokyo missions legal elf juicer face.
this build rolls 14 dice for addiction tests (kamikaze is threshold 3)
due to narco he's a monster when running kamikaze B:6, A:8, S:6, W:6 10+3d6 initiative.
now it will only last for (10x1d6)/2 minutes but that's more than enough to get through a firefight or two.
and you don't need initiative when out of combat, even if you are sneaking through a building etc.
alternately Cram lasts 6 hours (for him) and will confer R:7 and initiative 12+2d6
METATYPE: ELF
B 2, A 6, R 5, S 3, W 4, L 2, I 5, C 8, ESS 5.025, EDG 1, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 10
Armor: 13
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 11
Physical Initiative: 10+1D6
Active Skills: Con (Fast Talking +2) 6, Gymnastics 1, Impersonation (Vocal +2) 5, Influence Group 5, Leadership (Command +2) 6, Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 6, Palming (Pickpocket +2) 2, Perception (Visual +2) 2, Sneaking (Urban +2) 4, Unarmed Combat (nervestrike +2) 6
Languages: English (Speak +2) 4, Japanese N, Russian (Speak +2) 2, Sperethiel (Speak +2) 2
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Adept, Born Rich, Consummate Professional, Drug Tolerant, Dry Addict (Moderate): ????, Impassive, Mentor Spirit: Raven, Poor Self Control - Attention-Seeking, Prejudiced (Biased): Elf
Adept Powers: Authoritative Tone (2), Combat Sense (1), Commanding Voice (19dicepool vs. Willpower + Intuition), Nerve Strike, Traceless Walk, Ventriloquism (4m), Voice Control (1) (14dicepool[5] vs. Voice rec. x 2 or PER + INT)
Augmentations:
Narco
Nephritic Screen (Used) (6)
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Synch
Tetrachromatic Vision
Gear:
Black Panther
Charmer w/ Duration Enhancer (1), Inhalation Enhancer, Shock & Awe (1), Speed Demon (1)
Cram
Defender w/ Crush (1), Inhalation Enhancer
Erika Elite
Jazz
Kamikaze
Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit, Holster, Newest Model, Ruthenium Polymer Coating (3)
Starting ¥: 1,755 + (1D6 × 20)¥
Ammunition & Resources:
Edge Pool - 0/1
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The Addiction rules in Shadowrun are easily gamed, most any character can be built to pass addition tests with buying hits. Between Narco and the higher grades of drugs you can mitigate crashes or if you have access to the Detox spell you can basically ignore them.
Narco is one of the best Augmentations in the game. If nothing else running designer Novacoke and Psyche giving you a +2 to four stats and a few other buffs for a minor investment. Addiction threshold of 2 is easily managed and both last several hours. With Designer grade Novacoke you've got less than an hour of "downtime" from the crash.
If you're a mage (or Adept with Adept Spell or Barehanded Adept) Detox spell means no crash, and you've likely got a high Willpower to start with for addiction tests. Without Narco you don't get as much of a Stat bump, but never crashing means you can keep a continuous buff going for days if you really need to. And Detox means your Juicer Muggle buddies on the team can also ignore crashes.
As always Burnouts get the best of both worlds. Narco plus the Detox spell means cheap stat boosts for days. Just swap out whatever you're on for whatever you'll need.
IMO the stat boosts from Drugs in Shadowrun are too much for what they cost, and the systems / downsides in game meant to balance them are too easily gamed or not harsh enough.
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example, Tokyo missions legal elf juicer face.
this build rolls 14 dice for addiction tests (kamikaze is threshold 3)
Missions you can explicitly buy hits for Addiction tests as they are a down time test. You literally have to buy hits so you never need more than 12 dice for Addiction tests in Missions, usually 8 is enough if you're using Pharma grade or better, or using something threshold 2.
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Detox doesn't mitigate stun damage right?
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nope, it only mitigates/ removes the non-damaging side effects
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If you take the time to fully read of the addiction rules and related options there is no doubt you can beat the test, there risk but it's tiny.
And so long as you initiate combat there isn't really a problem. The other direction is the issue.
In a system were most combats are resolved in the first couple passes you really don't want to be the one Using your first action to pop your combat drugs, even if it's a free action.
But if you an find a way around that particular issue then it's workable solution.
Again it's not going to be for everyone, ware is more reliable, and even on min budget you can probably mange an extra d6 and a smartlink.
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remade juicer with Detox via adept spell.
Quik-E
METATYPE: ELF
B 2, A 6, R 5, S 3, W 4, L 2, I 5, C 8, ESS 5.025, EDG 1, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 10
Armor: 13
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 11
Physical Initiative: 10+1D6
Active Skills: Con (Fast Talking +2) 6, Gymnastics 1, Impersonation 5, Influence Group 5, Leadership (Command +2) 6, Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 6, Palming (Pickpocket +2) 2, Perception (Visual +2) 2, Sneaking (Urban +2) 4, Spellcasting 1, Unarmed Combat (nervestrike +2) 6
Languages: English (Speak +2) 4, Japanese N, Russian (Speak +2) 2, Sperethiel (Speak +2) 2
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Adept, Born Rich, Consummate Professional, Dead Emotion: ????, Drug Tolerant, Impassive, Mentor Spirit: Raven, Poor Self Control - Attention-Seeking, Prejudiced (Biased): Elf
Spells: Detox
Adept Powers: Adept Spell, Authoritative Tone (1), Commanding Voice (19dicepool vs. Willpower + Intuition), Facial Sculpt (4 hours) (1) (6dicepool), Nerve Strike, Traceless Walk, Ventriloquism (4m), Voice Control (1) (14dicepool[5] vs. Voice rec. x 2 or PER + INT)
Augmentations:
Narco
Nephritic Screen (Used) (6)
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Synch
Tetrachromatic Vision
Gear:
Black Panther
Cram
Erika Elite
Jazz
Kamikaze
Novacoke
Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit, Holster, Newest Model, Ruthenium Polymer Coating (3)
Starting ¥: 135 + (1D6 × 20)¥
Ammunition & Resources:
Edge Pool - 0/1
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What, no auto-injectors? They take up the tiniest smidgen of essence, and then you can dose yourself with a thought.
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deffo need an autoinjector
here he is with Novacoke, Psyche and custom designer drug (warrior + shock and awe 2) running at the same time.
pretty scary stuff for a chargen, Tokyo missions legal character.
@20 dice for social tests, 22 dice for commanding voice, 16 dice for nerve strike.
well unless your oppo can turn off their hearing.
Quik-E
METATYPE: ELF
B 2/4, A 6/8, R 5/7, S 3/5, W 4/3, L 2/4, I 5/7, C 8/10, ESS 5.025, EDG 1, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 10
Armor: 13
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 11
Physical Initiative: 10/12+3D6
Active Skills: Con (Fast Talking +2) 6, Gymnastics 1, Impersonation 5, Influence Group 5, Leadership (Command +2) 6, Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 6, Palming (Pickpocket +2) 2, Perception (Visual +2) 2 (3), Sneaking (Urban +2) 4, Spellcasting 1, Unarmed Combat (nervestrike +2) 6
Languages: English (Speak +2) 4, Japanese N, Russian (Speak +2) 2, Sperethiel (Speak +2) 2
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Adept, Born Rich, Consummate Professional, Dead Emotion: fear, Drug Tolerant, Impassive, Mentor Spirit: Raven, Poor Self Control - Attention-Seeking, Prejudiced (Biased): Elf
Spells: Detox
Adept Powers: Adept Spell, Authoritative Tone (1), Commanding Voice (20dicepool vs. Willpower + Intuition), Facial Sculpt (4 hours) (1) (7dicepool), Nerve Strike, Traceless Walk, Ventriloquism (4m), Voice Control (1) (15dicepool[5] vs. Voice rec. x 2 or PER + INT)
Augmentations:
Narco
Nephritic Screen (Used) (6)
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Striking Callus
Synch
Tetrachromatic Vision
Gear:
Black Panther
Cram
Erika Elite
Jazz
Kamikaze
Novacoke
Psyche
Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit, Holster, Newest Model, Ruthenium Polymer Coating (3)
Warrior w/ Shock & Awe (2)
Starting ¥: 1,780 + (1D6 × 20)¥
Ammunition & Resources:
Edge Pool - 0/1
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Detox doesn't mitigate stun damage right?
If you Detox before the Crash the Drug effect stops, the Crash including the Stun damage, never happens. Unless it's a random duration, really never an issue.
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deffo need an autoinjector
here he is with Novacoke, Psyche and custom designer drug (warrior + shock and awe 2) running at the same time.
Custom Drugs are sadly not allowed for missions play.
"Can I customize drugs in Missions? (Chrome Flesh, pg. 190)
The rules for customizing drugs are beyond the scope of Missions." - P. 45
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Detox doesn't mitigate stun damage right?
If you Detox before the Crash the Drug effect stops, the Crash including the Stun damage, never happens. Unless it's a random duration, really never an issue.
Hrm I need to find my rulebook to check that after the honeymoon. Sounds like badly written that way. I always thought it was just things like nausea you could end afterwards, not cast beforehand.
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yeah that seems like an over interpretation
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Then when does the crash damage hit? The spell doesn't specify. When the spell is cast or when it would normally hit? Because then Detox becomes one heck of a combat spell in very specific situations if the crash damage still happens as I don't think Detox is resisted.
I read it as all the drug/toxin effects simply stop if the threshold is met. Specifically damage already taken isn't healed though.
Plus what would be the point of using Detox to clear out Toxins/Poisons if it didn't stop damage that hasn't happened yet? Seems to be the RAI of the spell when used as a curative.
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yeah i dunno tbh.
i should put it to the errata team.
i think the potential loophole here is that because the force required is = to the dv of the drug (and positive drugs have no DV) then it make it an auto success at force 1 for the positive effect.
but again, tbh im not sure.
what would you do to balance this a bit better Hobbes?
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You've got the right of it. Boost Drugs are cleared with one hit, increase the threshold for removing "Helpful" drugs would be probably the right thing. Addiction Threshold if you want a light nerf, DV of the crash if you want a heavy Nerf? Dunno, you probably don't want to Errata every published and future drug so pick something already given.
And if you go with DV of the crash drugs like Novacoke (and several others) are still cleared with a single hit since they don't do damage.
*shrug* Literally I'm the only person I've ever seen with a Juicer character at a Convention that makes heavy use of the Drug rules so it's tough to say where all the loopholes are based on a single character.
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i think using the addiction threshold could work well and makes using a high addiction drug like kamikaze a lot more difficult to use detox on.
i'll put it to the errata team and see what they say.
any other input on juicers we should be aware of?
thanks
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any other input on juicers we should be aware of?
thanks
It's still more balanced, and far less flexible than Quickening, which it is directly comparable to. And far less common.
Which would you rather have in your dystopian cyberpunk world the guy with the Hello Kitty backpack full of party favors and pick me ups or the guy in the Van juggling a dozen sustains?
Just sayin'.
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Quickening is broken. No doubt.
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Plus what would be the point of using Detox to clear out Toxins/Poisons if it didn't stop damage that hasn't happened yet? Seems to be the RAI of the spell when used as a curative.
All the side-effects that give penalties for a while. Nausea etc. "Detox relieves the side effects of a drug or poison." It says nothing there about ending the drug's effect, or preventing the crash damage (which isn't a symptom, it's damage). It relieves the side effects, which we know are things like Nausea for X time. So as far as I read this, it's simply 'use drugs, it ends, get hit by side-effects, use Detox to have a clear head again'. And we're not even going into poisons there, which tend to come with all kinds of ugly effects.
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If a target still dies from poison/toxin after the successful cast of a Detox spell I question what the spell is intended to do. "The Mage successfully cures the poison, take another 6S of Poison damage..." We can quibble over what is meant by "Side Effects"?
I guess I don't like the idea that the Niche curative spell has some poorly defined sub-Niches that it doesn't actually work for. Seems subjective to have some effect on a character and instead of simply removing that effect, just specific bits and pieces of that effect are removed with no clear indication of when the remaining effects will trigger or end. Seems like a whole lot of GM calls when the simpler way is "If the spell is successful all the things for that drug/toxin/poison are gone." Buffs, Debuffs, more damage, drug interactions or overdose if additional drugs are taken...all seems unnecessarily ticky-tacky and subjective to say this bit keeps ticking but that bit doesn't.
YMMV and all that.
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"Detox does not heal or prevent damage done by toxins," -Core 288.
I was about to post I think it should be the spell used to save folks from the consequence and then i went and re-read the spell.
As far as RAW is concern it seems very clear it's not intended to save you from any damaging effects. It's seems clear it is intended to the perfect hang over cure. It won't stop you from taking damage if there was some involved but it will clear your head right away.
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That is how I read it as well Marcus.
But that does leave Hobbes with the very solid point of the spell being next to useless. You are better off getting good first aid after the crash.
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"Detox does not heal or prevent damage done by toxins," -Core 288.
I was about to post I think it should be the spell used to save folks from the consequence and then i went and re-read the spell.
As far as RAW is concern it seems very clear it's not intended to save you from any damaging effects. It's seems clear it is intended to the perfect hang over cure. It won't stop you from taking damage if there was some involved but it will clear your head right away.
My interpretation of that is so you can't cast Detox and then drop Neurostun grenades at your feet and take no damage. Detox is not a Poison Damage shield.
It's poorly worded, but I'm trying to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and assume the cure poison spell is actually intended to cure poison.
To put it in a computer gamey way: Target has a [CRAM] or [NEUROSTUN] effect on them. Mage casts Detox and hits the required threshold. [CRAM]\[NEUROSTUN]\[WHATEVER] ends. Magically all of that one dose of whatever it was Poison, Drug, Toxin, ends. More doses still work normally. If the Target didn't have any Poison, Toxin, Drug running then the spell does nothing. If the Target is under the effects of multiple Drugs, Toxins, Poisons, then the net hits of the spell are compared to individual thresholds and resolved.
More or less my reading of RAI. Wouldn't bother too much with RAW because then the spell doesn't work depending on your reading of "...doesn't prevent damage...".
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I think your point is pretty legit Hobbes, and I agree RAW the spell is pretty useless.
So couple different scenarios, as Steet Lethal is try to make narcojet cool again, we start with that.
So we can't detox up and then get Narcojeted, and not take stun damage, and we can't get with Narcojet and then use detox to remove the effect?
next
Some kid gets exposed to k12, we some how manage to restrain said kid who's now as about as fast and strong as decent street sam, and we hit with detox, do we save the kid however many level unsoakable stun damage that may very well kill said kid? does detox trigger said damage?
To me it looks like heal or stabilize is gonna get you a lot more for your money then detox.
Hobbes your saying it should remove the narcojet damage and prevent the k12 damage?
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Detox isn't really a cure poison spell; it's more of a cure hangover spell. While it may not take care of the physical damage, that still leaves a lot of bad aftereffects that can be made to go away. It is still more useful than the antidote spell, which gives the target some bonus dice for the resistance test and that's it - although this is only if you cast the spell in the narrow time frame after the victim has been poisoned, but before the victim has to make a resistance test.
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For Marcus's K12 question: IMO if the Detox spell goes off the K12 stops and nothing else happens. The Narcojet example, whatever damage has been done needs to be healed normally but no new damage should happen.
Glyph, same question. Raging K12 victim. Damage no matter what? And damage from Toxin... also dead if the victim doesn't shake it off? Die, trauma patch, only to die again if the toxin is still going? I really question the value of the spell since the threshold is the DV of the toxin. Why would the DV of the Toxin matter if it only cures Nausea and such? And then timing for drug crash damage, does it happen when the spell is cast or does the crash damage happen at the scheduled time? That seems a fairly critical bit to leave out if that is the intended use for Detox especially for Marcus's K12 Victim? Dead now or dead later? Additional does cause overdose or Drug interaction tests while waiting for the crash?
Antidote and Cure Disease are a poor comparison because they don't have a 6+ Threshold.
Edit: sorry, Min Force of 6+
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I think Hobbes interpretation, is fair, and hopefully RAI. At the very least I don't think it's too strong. Having a spell that's only a perfect hang over cure seems insane given the amount of resources a spell represents.
I would like to hear your response to Hobbes' question Glyph?
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It may not seem like a terribly effective spell, but for some drugs like jazz or novacoke, or toxins like nausea gas, it can be useful. The quote from earlier, "Detox does not heal or prevent damage done by toxins," doesn't really have a lot of wiggle room. I guess the reason the spell being weak doesn't bug me, is because I lump it in with spells like entertainment, makeover, fashion, etc.
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So I've been trying to make the juicer concept work. I'm a little surprised that some of the issues I've run into haven't come up in this thread already.
- The Overdosing rule (pg. 415 Core book). If not for this rule you could easily be pretty much constantly high on some cheaper and less punishing drugs (e.g. Snuff) for a pretty nice benefit along with Narco. I don't really see a way to work around this rule, so you're pretty much stuck with one drug per stat.
- The drug interaction roll (pg. 192-193 Chrome Flesh). Pretty much as soon as you've taken drug #3 you're at risk of immediately blowing yourself up. You can get around drug interaction rolls by taking Zero (hooray, another 150 nuyen per encounter). If you're taking Zero and have Narco you may as well take some mild or moderate addictions as disadvantages at chargen, it's RP appropriate too.
- The custom drug creation rules are vague, and the example of page 192 of Chrome Flesh makes my brain explode... How did they get Addiction Rating 10 and Threshold 8? Can anyone explain that to me? Also are custom drugs physiologically or psychologically addicting, or both?
- Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.
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I can only assume that the Blocks raised the addiction and threshold ratings - unfortunately, their effect in the table is an asterisk with no explanation given. Also, it is unclear if the modifiers for pharmaceutical drugs should be applied, or whether they are already factored in (the cost in the example is not doubled, even though pharmaceutical is the minimum grade for customized drugs). So apparently 5 levels of Blocks 1-8 and 2 levels of Block 9 raise addiction by 2 and threshold by 4.
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The German version clarified that to be the actual effect.
Custom drugs are too expensive and to dangerous to actually be of any use.
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So I've been trying to make the juicer concept work. I'm a little surprised that some of the issues I've run into haven't come up in this thread already.
- The Overdosing rule (pg. 415 Core book). If not for this rule you could easily be pretty much constantly high on some cheaper and less punishing drugs (e.g. Snuff) for a pretty nice benefit along with Narco. I don't really see a way to work around this rule, so you're pretty much stuck with one drug per stat.
- The drug interaction roll (pg. 192-193 Chrome Flesh). Pretty much as soon as you've taken drug #3 you're at risk of immediately blowing yourself up. You can get around drug interaction rolls by taking Zero (hooray, another 150 nuyen per encounter). If you're taking Zero and have Narco you may as well take some mild or moderate addictions as disadvantages at chargen, it's RP appropriate too.
- The custom drug creation rules are vague, and the example of page 192 of Chrome Flesh makes my brain explode... How did they get Addiction Rating 10 and Threshold 8? Can anyone explain that to me? Also are custom drugs physiologically or psychologically addicting, or both?
- Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.
Overdose, correct, Drug interaction correct. The tl;dr is pick two drugs that don't overlap, take a minor Addiction, add Narco Geneware. Psyche and Cram is my go to cocktail, but Psyche and Novacoke work well if you have initiative boosting 'ware/Magic already. Betameth and Kamikaze also play nice together if you're hard core.
Drug creation rules, talk to your GM or use the German rules until they get fixed by the Errata team.
Body lowering duration is what it is. Handwaive however you need to. The doses are standardized. More sixth world Racism. Your street doc/Drug dealer isn't going to give a Troll a double dose for free just because "Troll". Whatever works for your story.
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- Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.
Body lowering duration is what it is. Handwaive however you need to. The doses are standardized. More sixth world Racism. Your street doc/Drug dealer isn't going to give a Troll a double dose for free just because "Troll". Whatever works for your story.
Thinking about this for my new addiction rules, and I think you either go one of two ways. Use lifestyle costs (and pay +100% for a troll sized dose) or don't and get a regular sized one. The issue then becomes how to adjust for the larger doses.
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- Does anyone else think that Body having such a big effect on duration is crazy? I mean sure if a Troll grabs a pill for a human it may not last as long as expected, but if he gets it from his local pharmacy then he gets a body appropriate dose.
Body lowering duration is what it is. Handwaive however you need to. The doses are standardized. More sixth world Racism. Your street doc/Drug dealer isn't going to give a Troll a double dose for free just because "Troll". Whatever works for your story.
Thinking about this for my new addiction rules, and I think you either go one of two ways. Use lifestyle costs (and pay +100% for a troll sized dose) or don't and get a regular sized one. The issue then becomes how to adjust for the larger doses.
You pay the lifestyle cost, and quit bitching :P
But seriously, K.I.S.S: Keep It Simple Stupid.
you don't want to over think this shit too much, after all, what it the general rule of thumb? for a doubling in height, the mass increases by a factor of 8?
So that Troll isn't just twice as big as a human, its 8 times as dense! (and Stupid too! Probably.) so does that mean he has to pay 8 times the cost because of how much "more" there is of him to love?
What about dwarfs? Remember those red headed step children of the meta-variants? Do they only pay half as much because they are half as tall? (although, they are twice as dense as a human... go figure!)
No... K.I.S.S. is the way.
Pay the lifestyle adjustment and call it a day. You don't play with the Lifestyle adjustment I hear you say? Well then, the Trog gets to ride for free...
I mean seriously, There was a great interview about 2 decades ago after Andre the Giant passed away, about when he has to go under for a hip replacement, the Doctor was trying to figure out how much medication it would take to put him under... and Andre responded with. "Well, if I drink a liter of vodka in an hour, I get a buzz."
During the filming of A Princess Bride, Andre drank a CASE of Champagne (24 bottles!) before starting filming one day, and was "Pleasantly drunk" for half the day....
Andre, was not the same size as a Troll in Shadowrun, He was much smaller. [/list]