Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: drjmoriarity@gmail.com on <08-05-18/1518:58>
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Alright So For Starters.
My Crew:
"Baby Bullhorn" Cute Troll Mechanic from a trailer park.
"Red Riot" Young man with a trucker hat and love of racing and a Texas accent. ( Sorta Reminds me Terry Bogard )
"Barricade" Big african american orc with metal arms ( Sorta Reminds me of Mr T or Barrett )
"Jupiter & Star" A bald rock-star Elf girl with a attitude and master thief/con-artist ( Sorta reminds me of Mass-Effect Jack mixed with Gem and the Holograms ) ( Her band is Jupiter and the shooting stars and she has a pixie sidekick named Star )
( Redacted ) Sorry everyone, one of my players joined the forums so its probably wise i dont post my entire plot here.
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Now iv set up a fairly well organized connected and villain who is hard to touch
Shadowrun is not like dnd, you don't need some villian to strive for. You need a guy who's willing to pay money to make bad things happen to good people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scKBEdaN6DU&t=0s&list=PLTUzeOuClQNFDfpdwTQA5Cclv7wgfeOUU&index=20 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scKBEdaN6DU&t=0s&list=PLTUzeOuClQNFDfpdwTQA5Cclv7wgfeOUU&index=20)
Is a video I did on campaign planning. Cause this reads like a dnd campagin
These players are starting to trust me less though.. Iv betrayed them and hurt them before and I am getting a reputation for being that DM who likes to break there players hearts, with betrayals tricks and plot twists.
THEN STOP.
RPG's are about trust and communication. You, by your own admission are breaking that over and over. This is a good way to find yourself without players.
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I'm with Bamce, (There is something I thought I'd never say lol) on this Shadowrun is NOT D&D.
Open up the core book flip to the run construction page and just do some runs. Keep doing runs until you comfortable with the system and setting. Keep it simple, let the game develop sandbox style, based upon the players interests, your player can guide you to developing the opposition just go with the flow. Develop NPCs as the players develop contacts or as they need assistance, fixer are always the prefect tool for npc introduction. Let your player explore your version of the setting.
There should plenty of drama on runs without getting into weird plots twists.
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First, when i said my players are starting to trust me less and less that was a joke, I am the only DM they trust, i was making a joke about how often i get them with plot twists and such. They like actually enjoy it.. I am sorry if that was not made clear by the context..
And second of all... Bamce, that sounds like a really really boring campaign, my players will get up and leave if i am just getting them to do plot-less jobs over and over again with no narrative or villains.. I run more of a risk losing players by taking your advice.
You are talking down to me like i dont know what i am doing and i dont appreciate it. I am a very experienced GM with 15 years experience, I will run my game the way we like. All i wanted was help with my story...
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Anyway for anyone else interested iv went and doodled the lead runner eating.
(https://orig00.deviantart.net/df6e/f/2018/217/3/8/sarah_bullhorn___shadowrun_character_by_supermemorycards-dcjbn8d.jpg)
She is a shrimpy troll with a heart of gold, I actually really like this character, she is the daughter of the legendary troll runner "Bison Bullhorn" and she is trying to follow in his footsteps behind his back while after being forbidden from doing so to try and make some money for her family and help them out ( Her father lost all his wealth after he was betrayed by a running partner and lost his leg, he has been in hiding ever since he left Austin Taxes and moved to Kansas City )
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Having a a villain, depth and plot is not "D&D" and in the future try not to talk down to other people and especially when you'r advice is likely to cost me my players.
Let me take a moment to toot my own horn here but.. When it comes to GMing and running a game, There is nothing you can offer me. Plot suggestions only please.
I have run a 52-game campaign in Shadowrun 4+5 combined which involved several big plotlines woven throughout its 'seasons', I have also run several short Open campaigns, run a dozen Missions and a few singular open sessions. Plenty of those involved a mixture of misinformation, manipulation, betrayal and plot twists. And I am afraid to say that any plot suggestions I can give you here DO involve feedback on how to play out Shadowrun to make it, well, Shadowrun instead of DnD. So if you consider any feedback on that talking down and don't want any advice on GMing Shadowrun, then I'm afraid I and many others won't be able to offer anything of worth. Plot and GMing are too heavily interwoven here.
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Let me take a moment to toot my own horn here but.. When it comes to GMing and running a game, There is nothing you can offer me. Plot suggestions only please.
How wrong you are.
Even if one ignores advice, there is still information to he gained from listening
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Let me take a moment to toot my own horn here but.. When it comes to GMing and running a game, There is nothing you can offer me. Plot suggestions only please.
How wrong you are.
Even if one ignores advice, there is still information to he gained from listening
Listening to some people, but not you, you have already proven to not only have incredibly bad advice.
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Having a a villain, depth and plot is not "D&D" and in the future try not to talk down to other people and especially when you'r advice is likely to cost me my players.
Let me take a moment to toot my own horn here but.. When it comes to GMing and running a game, There is nothing you can offer me. Plot suggestions only please.
I have run a 52-game campaign in Shadowrun 4+5 combined which involved several big plotlines woven throughout its 'seasons', I have also run several short Open campaigns, run a dozen Missions and a few singular open sessions. Plenty of those involved a mixture of misinformation, manipulation, betrayal and plot twists. And I am afraid to say that any plot suggestions I can give you here DO involve feedback on how to play out Shadowrun to make it, well, Shadowrun instead of DnD. So if you consider any feedback on that talking down and don't want any advice on GMing Shadowrun, then I'm afraid I and many others won't be able to offer anything of worth. Plot and GMing are too heavily interwoven here.
You really dont know what you are talking about sorry, but i am running my game "shadowruny" if you are actually listening to Bamce's rambling than I dont know what to say.
I refuse to strip my game of story and narrative and shoot myself in the foot. Now if everyone would actually try to give me some feedback instead of making assumptions about how i am going to run my missions and game. All iv given you is my story and there is nothing abut it thats "D&D"
I dont consider all advice talking down, i consider what Bamce says as talking down. Now if everyone here will stop assuming everyone else doesnt know how to GM and pretending to be a higher authority and actually help me smooth out the edges of my plot.
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If you want help, first don't be an ass to people who offer you advice. It sounds like you want less 'help' and more 'validation'.
Honestly, your 'plot' sounds like a collection of tropes rather than an actual narrative with depth. And if your attitude in these forums is any indication of your attitude at the table, especially with the way you are very clear to emphasize how much your players love you, then are you sure that they actually enjoy your games, or is that 'alternative facts'? Gonna have yuge run, and MexicoAztlan is gonig to pay for it!
Seriously, though, dial back the attitude, because you're poisoning the well here.
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If I don't know what I'm talking about, without you even needing any kind of clarification on what I mean, then obviously I can't offer you any advice on how to smooth out your plot. So good luck with your campaign.
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You really dont need to be pricks in the forums, I wanted to get into shadowrun but when the community are jerks it really kills the fun and dog piling me for telling off Bamf for accusing me of doing some vague thing like "Running shadowrun like D&D" just so he can feel superior in talking down to me for how he feels a shadowrun game should be run ( I.E Plotless ) and telling me i am doing it wrong cause thats how my table likes to run games ( I.E With a Story ) when i asked for help fixing up plotholes for my story.
When a community is hostile and shitty it just fucking sucks for everyone involved. Exclusionary elitism and stuff like this is the worst aspects of nerd communities.
You are free to run your game any way you want, when communities act like this it makes the whole game hostile and unapproachable to even experienced tabletop players.
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If you want help, first don't be an ass to people who offer you advice. It sounds like you want less 'help' and more 'validation'.
Honestly, your 'plot' sounds like a collection of tropes rather than an actual narrative with depth. And if your attitude in these forums is any indication of your attitude at the table, especially with the way you are very clear to emphasize how much your players love you, then are you sure that they actually enjoy your games, or is that 'alternative facts'? Gonna have yuge run, and MexicoAztlan is gonig to pay for it!
Seriously, though, dial back the attitude, because you're poisoning the well here.
Dont be a dick.
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If you checked my video
I talk about doing some runs, and setting different hooks for the players to get involved in.
Let me give a small example.
in the one group I did as a shadowwalking group https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnGHgG74kQE&index=1&list=PLTUzeOuClQNEzW6KTdge1VaKdX2OmZx92
First run, protection job vs "not leon" and "not mathilda" attempting to assassinate the protection target, group succeeds but doesn't kill the npcs
pc's interacted with some vory guys, one pc has wanted vory
second run retrieve corpse for Johnson
drop off was at a warehouse with some vory next to it. One player had wanted vory
third run was a sorta opportunity run as two of the players had a sit down about 'what was up' with the vory
I put a bounty target in front of them to see if they would go for it
forth run was their fixer calling them to do a protection job on him as he was under pressure from some yakuza (he was yak associated)
The folks who took the bounty on their fixer were the same pair from the first run.
That is where it gets interesting. Because those npcs and pc's have history so when the 'not leon' shows his face near where they are, they know 'not mathilda' is around as well. characters roleplay with leon, he offered to set them up with a better fixer for handing him over. Was completely professional and well meaning. Meanwhile the other half of the team is trying to get their fixer out and find mathilda through the matrix and drones. The techno going hot sim does some back and forth hacking with her, ends up getting marked twice because of failed rolls, and the sniper shoots the techno through the wall forcing a burned edge scenario
5th run involved some mafia goons to try and get their fixer back in the yakuza's good graces
Ended with one of the runners on a boat with a mafioso goon getting his face punched in. Team switches modes to a rescue operation.
And you know how much of that I planned? Scripted out? wrote down in advance? Plotted?
ZERO
My players and I crafted that story together. Each persons actions contributed to it. Each person was a driving force towards the end that they were going to craft. Their choices mattered. WE set hooks, we pulled on parts of the game that were interesting to make things more interesting.
They ended up recovering a vegetable state techno who's mind was stuck in a resonance realm and went on a resonance adventure to make her whole again. They made friends with a changeling, who hated what she was. Went down into the ork underground and broke up a cult that involved shadow spirits.
I literally have hours and hours of helping new people get into shadowrun. Its all over my youtube channel.
But thats fine, you don't want my help
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If you checked my video
I talk about doing some runs, and setting different hooks for the players to get involved in.
Let me give a small example.
in the one group I did as a shadowwalking group https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnGHgG74kQE&index=1&list=PLTUzeOuClQNEzW6KTdge1VaKdX2OmZx92
First run, protection job vs "not leon" and "not mathilda" attempting to assassinate the protection target, group succeeds but doesn't kill the npcs
pc's interacted with some vory guys, one pc has wanted vory
second run retrieve corpse for Johnson
drop off was at a warehouse with some vory next to it. One player had wanted vory
third run was a sorta opportunity run as two of the players had a sit down about 'what was up' with the vory
I put a bounty target in front of them to see if they would go for it
forth run was their fixer calling them to do a protection job on him as he was under pressure from some yakuza (he was yak associated)
The folks who took the bounty on their fixer were the same pair from the first run.
That is where it gets interesting. Because those npcs and pc's have history so when the 'not leon' shows his face near where they are, they know 'not mathilda' is around as well. characters roleplay with leon, he offered to set them up with a better fixer for handing him over. Was completely professional and well meaning. Meanwhile the other half of the team is trying to get their fixer out and find mathilda through the matrix and drones. The techno going hot sim does some back and forth hacking with her, ends up getting marked twice because of failed rolls, and the sniper shoots the techno through the wall forcing a burned edge scenario
5th run involved some mafia goons to try and get their fixer back in the yakuza's good graces
Ended with one of the runners on a boat with a mafioso goon getting his face punched in. Team switches modes to a rescue operation.
And you know how much of that I planned? Scripted out? wrote down in advance? Plotted?
ZERO
My players and I crafted that story together. Each persons actions contributed to it. Each person was a driving force towards the end that they were going to craft. Their choices mattered. WE set hooks, we pulled on parts of the game that were interesting to make things more interesting.
They ended up recovering a vegetable state techno who's mind was stuck in a resonance realm and went on a resonance adventure to make her whole again. They made friends with a changeling, who hated what she was. Went down into the ork underground and broke up a cult that involved shadow spirits.
I literally have hours and hours of helping new people get into shadowrun. Its all over my youtube channel.
But thats fine, you don't want my help
That is no different than what I am doing, never detailed the 10 to 12 runs I was working on between the broad strokes. The small stories between jobs that stack up over time.
Now my major plot iv planned out cause iv predicted what my players are going to do ahead of time cause of how well i know tham, iv not decided this will all play out and push them toward that, I am assuming based on what I know of them that they will place themselves into this situation.
And if all my game was like that, little stories told over a period of missions, I know my players wont enjoy that. And you can run your game however you please, hell they hated the system so they moved the entire thing over to hero-system and just using the lore of shadowrun.
My point is that I am an experienced game runner of 15 years, a lesson on how you like to run shadowrun isnt really the topic i was inviting when i came here with lore questions, I am glad you enjoy shadowrun your very specific way but the group i play with will not and you are free to play shadowrun anyway you please.
So mocking the way other people play saying they are playing like "D&D"
The way a D&D game is engineered is with alot of dungeoneering and puzzles, the degree to which your story is prioritized is most certainly not a D&D thing nor is it really anyone's business how prioritized my story is around my table. Thats seriously not up for debate here. I know you think you are helping but if iv made a conscious decision to change anything it was already considered and than decided it was not right for my table.
You havent educated me on anything i didnt know and its very off topic.
You have made 3 posts and not once have you given me any feedback on characters, the lore, how it all fits together, how to better integrate my ideas into the lore or suggestions on how to improve what i already have... You have just criticized and looked down on people who play the game differently than yourself. ( A way which may work for you but in my 15 years of experience GMing know will result in the disappointment of my players )
Maybe you enjoy a more improve off the cuff game than other people do, that doesn't make other people wrong and your way is not the only way, hell its not even the way the books suggest, its just your own private personal preference that is exclusive to you. Not better or superior, just your own preference.
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To explain farther why i know that my players would not be receptive to this, the little sub culture around my table is that my players tend to absolutely despise improve games and off the cuff games, and this mentality has spread through the about 20 other people i intermittently play table top games with. They have also come to expect a certain quality of story telling in games, they are very put off by the more basic skeleton-outline type games that get shopped around in modules and such. Using D&D for example "You all meet in a tavern" Is seen as lazy and there is an expectation that every single member of the party will have 1 on 1 two to three hour introductions campaign and paced out way to join the game.
( And D&D Is only 1 of the games we play around the table, so I am not running this like i would a D&D Game i am running it how i would a hero-system game, a call of cthulu game, a GURPS game, a WAG game, a Sagas game, a savage worlds game, a vampire masquerade game, a pathfinder game, a starfinder game, a Interlock game, ect ect ect... and by that i mean well thought out and with a heavy focus on story telling and most definitely not off the cuff. So suggesting iv somehow been spoiled by D&D and that i am using bad habbits from that is... just assuming alot about me when you dont know me )
Looser more improvised games are seen as blande cause descriptions, atmosphere, pacing all take a hit... And run the risk of ending a session without some big thrilling moment.
Not to say my players dont drive the plot cause they do, iv become good at straddling that line. To create a world that is open and with no right answers but i use what i know of my players to prepare for or adapt to their decisions to create a story that feels natural and organic. Iv become very good at dangling the right incentives tailored to each of my players and preparing for what they are likely to do to create a well placed risk..
For example, one of my players has a habit of grabbing everything and being curious, so i put a book on a shelf about 8 feet up on the 12th shelf.. the book was larger than the others so if he inspects the shelf it will be something of note. however when he climbed that shelf as i knew he would, the book inside was a mimic.
Iv created a challange now tailored specifically to one of my players without making them feel pushed or guided in that direction, and simply put thats how my players like the game. I am not going to sit here and argue that my way is better like everyone else, hell the fact that i need to explain it at all is stupid, but that through over a decade of playing with this same group of friends I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt this is the right way FOR US.
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Maybe you could ask some specific questions, or clarify what kind of feedback you're hoping for? Love that character sketch, BTW.
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Maybe you could ask some specific questions, or clarify what kind of feedback you're hoping for? Love that character sketch, BTW.
Thank you Sphinx, mostly I just wanted to make sure everything checks out and i havent overlooked anything.
Like i cant find any information about Kansas city so any information to help me flesh out this location would be super cool.
Make sure iv got my Vampire lore all correct and if theres anything i should know about them. The one thing i figured would be expected to be a issue is inventing my own minor corporation, i dont know how friendly shadowrun is with smaller corporations running around.
Oh and if anyone has some sample mission ideas to help me flesh out the early parts of the game, I would be really excited to get a wide veriety of options to offer my players.
Some of the ealier stuff iv got planned is a request to assassinate a old man who runs the chinese food place under accuesations that he is a child molester, but if the players bother to look into this and dig up evidence they can find information that indicates her is a in a ugly legal battle with the man who hires the party who lied to get them to agree to do wetwork at low coste.
Or one ware the party have to kidnap a mid-tier wageslave to "Scare him" and the contact will request to meet the players at a secluded place after the job and will attempt to get away without paying if they agree to this secluded meeting place. ( Also the wageslave kidnapping iv a relitively clever trick, that if they dont do proper leg work they wont realize his office autolocks down and can only be opened from the outside so they will be trapped till the police arrive )
Any interesting ideas to give my players a fun and interesting little job would be appreciated, iv never run a game ware the majority of the roleplaying was spent picking a job and hanging out with the other runners bonding over a trideo movie marathon and chinese food. So adapting to this change of pace is a fun and exciting concept.
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1. Kansas City doesn't have much detail in the lore, which makes it sort of a backwater in shadowrunner circles, but leaves it wide open for development in your game. Kansas is the southwest corner of the UCAS, bordering the CAS, Pueblo Corporate Council (PCC), and Sioux Nation, so relations with those neighboring states are pressing concerns, affecting both legal commerce and illegal smuggling. But Kansas City is in the northeast corner of the state, straddling the border with Missouri (in fact, it's mostly on the Missouri side), so those borders are still comfortably remote. Browse Google Images to get a feel for the place, check out the Wikipedia article, then give it some Sixth World flavor. Such as: a trolltown on the waterfront, a dwarf district, a coven of vampires, some transplanted magical faction like a major Buddhist or Qabbalist temple, a notorious local dragon who's an art snob (self-appointed curator of the Nelson-Atkins museum, willing to hire runners to expand his private collection), and so on.
2. Vampires have plenty of info available, starting with the description in the core rules (p.406), then the chapters on Infected in Run Faster ("Into the Night," p.124-143) and Howling Shadows ("Whispers in the Blood," p.77-91).
3. A local corporation can be entirely your creation, and could potentially be very powerful on the local stage while staying below the corporate radar. Remember, there are only ten triple-A megacorps with a seat or two on the Corporate Court; but there are over a hundred double-A megacorps with extraterritoriality; and there are thousands of single-A corps that aren't big enough to call "mega" or claim extraterritoriality, but are still major multinational corporations. Below these, there are countless national (B-rating) and local (C-rating) companies that still have enough clout to own local politicians and form little corporate fiefdoms where they're the big fish in a relatively small pond. When you own the mayor, the sheriff, the district attorney, and a few judges, you can get away with pretty much anything. Maybe there's a construction company that's all mobbed up, or a tech factory that employs over 10% of the city, or a law firm with blackmail files on all the right people, or a pharmaceutical company that secretly operates local clinics as a front for testing new products on the disadvantaged and SINless. Or a chemical factory that uses ghoul workers off the books and bribes inspectors to skip their inspections.
4. Early missions should set the tone for your campaign, and introduce your players to the major locations of the city, major organizations (gangs, crime syndicates, religious groups, political factions, law enforcement, media personalities, sports teams, even popular bands), and major NPCs (some of whom should become contacts if they aren't already). Check out the list of basic shadowruns in the core rulebook ("Run Templates," p.336-338) and run a few examples to give players a feel for the game.
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1. Kansas City doesn't have much detail in the lore, which makes it sort of a backwater in shadowrunner circles, but leaves it wide open for development in your game. Kansas is the southwest corner of the UCAS, bordering the CAS, Pueblo Corporate Council (PCC), and Sioux Nation, so relations with those neighboring states are pressing concerns, affecting both legal commerce and illegal smuggling. But Kansas City is in the northeast corner of the state, straddling the border with Missouri (in fact, it's mostly on the Missouri side), so those borders are still comfortably remote. Browse Google Images to get a feel for the place, check out the Wikipedia article, then give it some Sixth World flavor. Such as: a trolltown on the waterfront, a dwarf district, a coven of vampires, some transplanted magical faction like a major Buddhist or Qabbalist temple, a notorious local dragon who's an art snob (self-appointed curator of the Nelson-Atkins museum, willing to hire runners to expand his private collection), and so on.
2. Vampires have plenty of info available, starting with the description in the core rules (p.406), then the chapters on Infected in Run Faster ("Into the Night," p.124-143) and Howling Shadows ("Whispers in the Blood," p.77-91).
3. A local corporation can be entirely your creation, and could potentially be very powerful on the local stage while staying below the corporate radar. Remember, there are only ten triple-A megacorps with a seat or two on the Corporate Court; but there are over a hundred double-A megacorps with extraterritoriality; and there are thousands of single-A corps that aren't big enough to call "mega" or claim extraterritoriality, but are still major multinational corporations. Below these, there are countless national (B-rating) and local (C-rating) companies that still have enough clout to own local politicians and form little corporate fiefdoms where they're the big fish in a relatively small pond. When you own the mayor, the sheriff, the district attorney, and a few judges, you can get away with pretty much anything. Maybe there's a construction company that's all mobbed up, or a tech factory that employs over 10% of the city, or a law firm with blackmail files on all the right people, or a pharmaceutical company that secretly operates local clinics as a front for testing new products on the disadvantaged and SINless. Or a chemical factory that uses ghoul workers off the books and bribes inspectors to skip their inspections.
4. Early missions should set the tone for your campaign, and introduce your players to the major locations of the city, major organizations (gangs, crime syndicates, religious groups, political factions, law enforcement, media personalities, sports teams, even popular bands), and major NPCs (some of whom should become contacts if they aren't already). Check out the list of basic shadowruns in the core rulebook ("Run Templates," p.336-338) and run a few examples to give players a feel for the game.
Perfect advice.
To expand on this and point 4:
I usually run about 8 to 12 "starter" runs with new players before I even get to the plot of the campaign. This usually gives both the players and myself a good idea of how i run things, what I can expect out of my players (their habits, play style, etc), how their characters are performing based on expectations, and a feel for the setting (after all, the setting is a product of the GM, and thus, with each GM the setting takes on a different feel, which can take people time to adjust).
From there, I start in with what ever over reaching plot arc I want. The advantage of so many "starter" runs is it also gives the players time to plant nuggets of info into my own head for a great plot arc! I hate to say it, but some of my most memorable times GMing shadowrun came from plots that where started by simple PC investment into some JohnDoe/McBar/rusty tricycle I placed in just to add some color to the setting...
edit note: apparently drinking words and typing beer leads to many errors...