Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Iron Serpent Prince on <09-01-18/1452:55>
-
With the release of Kill Code, there are still a bunch of unanswered questions about the Matrix, and the technology that interacts with it.
- What is the SIN that is broadcast? Is it readable by anyone, or do you need some form of authorization?
The main question is if Character A is walking down the street, can they Matrix Perception Character Bs comm and know their name?
Example of use: A Decker needs to find a certain person. Through Matrix Search, this Decker figures out the location of this persons office. When the Decker heads to that office via the Matrix and notices there are half a dozen comms in there, can this Decker figure out which comm is their target (assuming the SIN has the same name as the target)? - Can a commcode on a device be changed?
Based on modern technology, the answer would be maybe. On the one hand, if it acts only like a phone number, then yes it would be possible if a little clunky to change the commcode. On the other hand, if it acts like an IMEI or ESN number, then emphatically no, you cant change it.
Reason for interest: A Decker trips an alarm, either from OS accumulation, or failing a Sleaze action, or succeeding in an Attack action, and the responder uses a Matrix Perception to grab the commcode of the Decker. This Decker is now easily identified / tracked if the commcode cant be changed, as it counts as something known about the Icon to use in future Matrix Perception checks.
Ideally, said Decker would just change Decks / Commcodes to not worry about having to Run Silent everywhere in order to prevent leading their victims straight to them and the rest of their team. Given the price of Decks, they cant just be burned. - Does the recipient of an alarm have any clue what set it off?
What I mean is, if a Decker succeeds on an Attack roll, is the Owner of the target told Breach Detected? Then if the Decker fails a Sleaze roll, is the Owner told Intrusion Attempt Prevented? I imagine the OS accumulation would be pretty clear for a Hosts security.
Reason for interest: Should a Decker fail a Sleaze roll (example their opening Hack on the Fly for a MARK roll) the Owner at the moment has about a 50% chance of succeeding on a Matrix Perception - Personas that I / this system have a MARK on to spot the Decker who failed the attempt. If the alarm clarifies the reason for the alarm, that shoots up to 100% (And the Owner could use a second hit on the Matrix Perception roll to grab the commcode, like above.) - How does Matrix Perception work for someone in AR?
What I mean is, when in AR, a Decker could be in Seattle while their Persona is in DeeCee. When this Decker uses Matrix Perception which location is he viewing? Is it DeeCee only? Can he choose to Perceive Seattle? Can he choose to do both?
If the Decker can choose to Perceive more than just DeeCee, can a Decker in VR use the same choice if they choose?
To answer anyone who might ask, it would be a way to keep an eye on their meatspace bodies. If you have a limited number of comms, say, in your bodies vicinity when you slide into VR, and that number jumps by four, say, you can be sure you have a some sort of team at your meat body. - Why, in a technical explanation, a device cant be both Master and Slave in a PAN?
Given all the reasons even running a PAN is a Bad Idea now, why are devices limited in the scope they can play? - Is the Ownership Information readable from the outside?
Can a hacker gain access to who owns a device? - Does Ownership actually place MARKs on a Device? There are several places that compare ownership as being like having 4 MARKs. But no place that actually states that ownership is four MARKs.
- Can a commlink/deck store more than one SIN at a time? Obviously, even if the device could broadcast more than one it would be a really silly thing to do.
- Can you transfer (cyber) Programs form one Deck to another? What if they have the same Owner? I know there was a ruling somewhere, if memory serves by Aaron, that a Decker can't copy programs (because they can't defeat the copy protection of all things), but what about transferring?
My main issue is still with the details of exactly how "the Matrix overlays the physical world."
This, along with other sections, heavily implies that AR iconography literally overlays the physical world, with personas and device icons - and AROs placed on those icons - all moving around in virtual space in tandem with the devices they're connected to (and thus the people / things which are carrying them).
- Matrix Teamwork: Does it work, and if yes, how? Iīve seen the Technomancer-only(!) Qualitiy "Teamplayer", but that doesnīt explain what you can and cannot do without it
- Refereing to the original post: Am I able to run my Persona on another "Persona-readied" device that is not in my immediate vicinity? F.i., can I keep a kind of Backup Deck in my appartment while going out, and when someone triggers an alarm, I can log in with my persona on that Deck to have an immediate, "lokalized" viewpoint on what is going there? If not, what prevents me from doint so? Is there a max. range to keep between me (i.e. my interface controls, be they AR Gloves, DNI or VR) and the device I run my persona from?
- Regarding Masters and Slaves: Is there an official Action (or set of Actions) to form or reconfigure a PAN? How long does it take to establish a Master-Slave-relationship, who needs to give their OK, who needs Marks on whom?
- Regarding Send Message Action: The description states that you may need a Mark (probably on the target of the message, not on the sender? ???), but not when. I think itīs needed to start a livefeed, am i right? ;)
But now that I further think about it, There is a HUGE issue with this that surely demands a Errata or Clarification:
Core Rules, P. 268: "There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with multiple devices slaved to a host. This is the world of that special kind of rigger, the security spider. They slave(!) their RCC to the buildings host and connect to the entire security system, including all of its slaved drones."
That would be a problem now, because RCCs need to be Masters to share Autosofts with their slaved Drones. Does this mean that Spiders donīt use shared Autosofts and have individual Autosofts running on their drones instead? Or can the slaved RCC still share Autosofts inside the Hostīs WAN (would make more sense IMO)? Can the security rigger even control his/her persona on the slaved RCC?
Also, is the RCC in this case visible outside the Host?
-
My main issue is still with the details of exactly how "the Matrix overlays the physical world."
the people walking down the street are occasionally highlighted by glowing auras--nice blue ones representing your friends, glaring red ones telling you that someone you know and should be avoiding is coming close...
- Core 221
This, along with other sections, heavily implies that AR iconography literally overlays the physical world, with personas and device icons - and AROs placed on those icons - all moving around in virtual space in tandem with the devices they're connected to (and thus the people / things which are carrying them).
Yet, there are vastly differing views. I'd say this is definitely a foundational enough concept to warrant official clarification.
-
Ah Iīve been waiting for this kind of thread to pop up ;D
First, I think I can kind of answer 2 of these.
4) How does Matrix Perception work for someone in AR?
What I mean is, when in AR, a Decker could be in Seattle while their Persona is in DeeCee. When this Decker uses Matrix Perception which location is he viewing? Is it DeeCee only? Can he choose to Perceive Seattle? Can he choose to do both?
If the Decker can choose to Perceive more than just DeeCee, can a Decker in VR use the same choice if they choose?
To answer anyone who might ask, it would be a way to keep an eye on their meatspace bodies. If you have a limited number of comms, say, in your bodies vicinity when you slide into VR, and that number jumps by four, say, you can be sure you have a some sort of team at your meat body.
Thatīs still confusing for many players: Your Persona is neither in Seattle nor in Deecee, itīs in the Matrix. And that means, itīs either inside a Host or out on the Grid (it doesnīt matter which grid, except for the data throttling on the public grid. Think of it as your internet provider). This determines what you can immediately spot inside the Matrix. In a Host, you see itīs inhabitants (if not running silently). Out on the grid, you see the things around in a 100 Meter radius around your position, meaning the position of the device your are running persona is running on. For everything else, you need to perform a Matrix Perception Test. When the fluff texts talks about how you "travel" through the Matrix, thatīs mostly a visual Metaphor. You canīt really reposition yourself in the Matrix, at least not in relation to the physical world. You can reposition yourself by repositioning the Device your persona runs on or by loading you persona on another device.
This, however, begs a new question (see #2 below).
[/quote]
5) Why, in a technical explanation, a device cant be both Master and Slave in a PAN?
Given all the reasons even running a PAN is a Bad Idea now, why are devices limited in the scope they can play?
Well thatīs because... thatīs how the Matrix works. Masters and Slaves are just figments of the the Matrix Protocolls, so from a technical standpoint, there are no "chains" of Masters-Slave-Relationships because the Matrix protocols donīt support it. From a gaming perspective, itīs mostly to prevent abuse.
The question is: Why are so many people here so eager to have chains of Masters and Slaves? ??? My suspicion: The Names are kinda misleading. Itīs less like "Master and Slave" and more like "Protector and Protege". In the Matrix, you donīt have to be the "Master" to control "Slaves". Control is regulated by ownership and Marks. A Master-Slave-Relationship (in other words: a PAN or WAN) only grants additional protection to the slaves, at the cost of making the master more vulnerable. So ironically, it is actually the "Master" that is getting the whip here ::) Now, I donīt know if you share this misconception, thatīs just a guess. If you donīt, please tell me why you think that Slaves should be able to be Masters as well (or why there should be an explanation on why they canīt) ;)
So, thatīs my shot at 2 (well, 1 and a half) of these. For the rest, Iīm not sure if theres a RAW answer. AFAIK, these are still up to diskussion. Plus, a bunch of unanswered questions to add from me:
- Matrix Teamwork: Does it work, and if yes, how? Iīve seen the Technomancer-only(!) Qualitiy "Teamplayer", but that doesnīt explain what you can and cannot do without it
- Refereing to the original post: Am I able to run my Persona on another "Persona-readied" device that is not in my immediate vicinity? F.i., can I keep a kind of Backup Deck in my appartment while going out, and when someone triggers an alarm, I can log in with my persona on that Deck to have an immediate, "lokalized" viewpoint on what is going there? If not, what prevents me from doint so? Is there a max. range to keep between me (i.e. my interface controls, be they AR Gloves, DNI or VR) and the device I run my persona from?
- Regarding Masters and Slaves: Is there an official Action (or set of Actions) to form or reconfigure a PAN? How long does it take to establish a Master-Slave-relationship, who needs to give their OK, who needs Marks on whom?
- Regarding Send Message Action: The description states that you may need a Mark (probably on the target of the message, not on the sender? ???), but not when. I think itīs needed to startg a livefeed, am i right? ;)
Thatīs it for now. Iīm sure there are other questions, so fire at will 8)
-
Out on the grid, you see the things around in a 100 Meter radius around your position, meaning the position of the device your are running persona is running on.
Do you have any reference for this? I know I've looked and not found any. I can personally see an argument either way, as in 100m radius from your Persona, and 100m radius from your device.
In this case, do you automatically spot any Icon within 100m radius of your device that is in the vicinity of the Seattle grid?
Or Icons within 100m radius of your Persona on the DeeCee grid?
The question is: Why are so many people here so eager to have chains of Masters and Slaves?
I won't speak for the others, but I imagine it has to do with the fact that you can do that now.
Right now your Router (I am assuming you have one) can have hundreds of devices "slaved" to it providing the same benefits as a Master in Shadowrun.
Even if it was only, eight say, you could hook up another router as one of those eight and get eight more (for 15 total.)
In fact, that is what Steve Gibson's Three (dumb) Router (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVBP30nd6_Q) (YouTube Video) approach is for IoT security. (Text version (https://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/Steve-Gibsons-Three-Router-Solution-IOT-Insecurity))
And before anyone says "but those are dedicated devices," your PC can do the same thing with the right know how. Granted, *nix machines are much easier to do it with... But Windows machines can do it too - although it might require third party software.
From a gaming perspective, I don't want (as a Decker) to have to cover 5+ pieces of gear per teammate just to cover basic operations.
Now, every character doesn't need 5+ devices. Some need more, others need less. I just estimate 5 per. And that limits team size to four, at most.
- Image Link Device (Cybereyes, Googles, Glasses, Contacts, etc.)
- Sound Link Device (Ear buds, Cyberears, etc.)
- Voice Device (Subdermal Mic, Microtransceiver, etc.)
- Response Interface Gear*, helmet
- Response Interface Gear*, armor
- Maybe a weapon
*RIG, the poor man's PI-Tac.
One of the first rules of combat is "don't allow your comms to be compromised." If one of your team's comms gets hacked, the rest of the gear being protected hardly matters at that point.
On top of that, right now the Drone Rigger is stuck having to protect two devices all by her/his lonesome. The RCC - as a Master, it can't be slaved to a PAN. And the commlink s/he forms her Persona on - because a Persona'd device can't be part of a PAN.
It would make so much more sense, technologically, practically, and just plain common-sense-y, to permit each member to control her/his own PAN, and link Masters to the Matrix Overwatch characters Master.
Was that enough? Or should I go on? ;)
-
On top of that, right now the Drone Rigger is stuck having to protect two devices all by her/his lonesome. The RCC - as a Master, it can't be slaved to a PAN. And the commlink s/he forms her Persona on - because a Persona'd device can't be part of a PAN.
I think you've mixed up Persona'd device with a TM's Living Persona.
Comms and Decks are absolutely assumed to simultaneously serve as the host to your persona, and as the master of your PAN. (And I'm pretty sure the same goes for RCCs, but I'm not gonna go searching to verify right now.)
-
Comms and Decks are absolutely assumed to simultaneously serve as the host to your persona, and as the master of your PAN. (And I'm pretty sure the same goes for RCCs, but I'm not gonna go searching to verify right now.)
If you got something to back that up, I'd love to see it.
To be honest, this is another Stupendously Silly ruling based on community consensus arguing over RAW, not based on anything resembling the author's RAI.
Because of that, I didn't focus on it enough to argue the point for, but I do know it revolved around this passage in Core:
When a person uses a device to connect to the Matrix, the devices icon is subsumed by the personas icon, so its basically gone from the Matrix until the persona jacks out.
I know, I know. "That refers to the Icon only." I also know that got shot / shouted down for some reason.
I also know that Data Trails and Kill Code have not published anything that supports or disproves the idea. I was specifically looking.
So do post what you have, please. When you have the time, of course.
-
I have a nagging feeling I missed a few. My list should be longer than this. I guess I'll have to add to this thread as I remember them.
I remembered one:
- Does Ownership actually place MARKs on a Device? There are several places that compare ownership as being like having 4 MARKs. But no place that actually states that ownership is four MARKs.
-
I don't think it's explicitly stated, but it shouldn't need to be. Every core section on comms, PANs, etc I've looked at reads like doing both simultaneously is an underlying assumption.
If you ask me, to say otherwise is to focus only on one tiny (probably poorly edited) line to the exclusion of virtually everything else around it.
- And don't you have to use your persona to perform matrix actions?
There's gotta be examples in the books where riggers use their RCCs to coordinate drones while also using them for a matrix action or two. Or of someone actively using their deck as a persona while simultaneously protecting other devices.
Idk, maybe I just had a self-perpetuating misreading, but that doesn't seem likely. If you consider the implications of what you're proposing, that would mean you can only have a PAN when you're not actively using your comm as your persona. But everyone is always using their persona. And everyone always has a PAN, because, like the book says, there'd be a crap-ton of extra icons everywhere if they didn't. I don't recall any fluff about people carrying, or even having, multiple comms at once.
So the preponderance of the evidence makes it pretty clear to me that comms, decks, and rccs can all do both simultaneously.
-
So the preponderance of the evidence makes it pretty clear to me that comms, decks, and rccs can all do both simultaneously.
Unfortunately, no. I found a reference to it, but haven't found the true source yet.
This post (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=12752.msg235005#msg235005).
I think I can give some answers. Aaron stated somewhere, possibly the FAQ thread, that a 'deck is no longer a device when it is in use-- It's a persona.
I do know this Aaron mentioned has some authority weight, I can't say what exactly.
Since the comm / deck / whatever is no longer a device, it can not be part of a PAN.
-
In that post you linked to, they actually say that a persona can't be a slave, but can be a master.
Again, look at the full preponderance of evidence here. Even if you don't recognize any underlying assumption in the various relevant sections that these devices are performing both functions simultaneously, there's still all those story-like examples throughout the books.
Like this one on 271 of Core:
Spike... uses his Hack on the Fly action to try to slap a mark on the Rotodrone. Spike would normally roll Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] v. Intuition + Firewall, but the rotodrone is slaved to Drivers RCC and can therefore use the RCCs Firewall instead....
... makes another Hack on the Fly action (Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] v. Intuition + Firewall) against the rotodrone and scores 2 net hits. He now has 2 marks on Drivers persona.
I'm sure this is just one example of many where a device is shown to serve as both a persona and a master simultaneously.
-
In that post you linked to, they actually say that a persona can't be a slave, but can be a master.
Yes they did, five years ago. And there was a reason I didn't quote it.
Because even if that is right, Kill Code came along and... Well... Killed it.
PANs consist of only devices, whether slave or master, and no device can be both slave and master.
So, until there is the Errata customers have been waiting for for three to four years - and it corrects this - Personas can't be a part of a PAN. Master, Slave, whatever.
-
Because even if that is right, Kill Code came along and... Well... Killed it.
PANs consist of only devices, whether slave or master, and no device can be both slave and master.
So, until there is the Errata customers have been waiting for for three to four years - and it corrects this - Personas can't be a part of a PAN. Master, Slave, whatever.
That... doesn't actually say a persona can't be part of a PAN lol.
What does a PAN consist of? Devices.
What creates a persona? A device.
What creates a PAN? Only devices that can create a persona.
. . . .
- And again, I'd like to return your attention to the RAW examples of devices performing both functions simultaneously.
-
And I'd love for you to be correct.
I take a rather Linux view to the Matrix. In Linux "everything is a file." I feel in the Matrix "everything is an Icon." And by extension that means Personas aren't unique items, for lack of a better word. I'd like Personas to be considered devices.
Until we get some clarification, we have Aaron declaring a Persona isn't a device any more.
And Kill Code making it clear that PANs are only devices.
For the record, Aaron also made the ruling that Noise only stops Wireless Bonuses, and does not prevent the device from interacting with the Matrix. This ruling has made Jammers not function as the were written too.
So, I am all for the next Errata coming out with a declaration of something like "this is the official Errata. If an interpretation or ruling isn't in here, it isn't official." Just start over and work with consistency from here on out.
I'm pretty sure that won't happen, so instead we have to wait for Catalyst to get off their thumbs and pay the Errata team to make it worth their while to either push through the backlog of material, or skip ahead to Kill Code and fix that section on PANs.
-
Actually, I just googled "aaron" PAN persona site:https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com, limiting for everything before the date firebug referenced that statement, and turned up bupkis. Only 3 hits, none of which were it.
So either Aaron deleted it, or it actually never even existed.
Was that the main basis for your position, or was it the bit about iconography?
-
Was that the main basis for your position, or was it the bit about iconography?
To repeat myself:
To be honest, this is another Stupendously Silly ruling based on community consensus arguing over RAW, not based on anything resembling the author's RAI.
So either Aaron deleted it, or it actually never even existed.
If you want to accuse Firebug of being a Lyin' S.O.B., then you do you. ;) I'm going to take it to mean that when the forum software was switched over about a year ago the FAQ thread didn't make the transition. If you want to believe it was intentional, go ahead. I'm not making that assumption.
-
I actually meant it more like she misremembered.
I guess cgl aren't the only ones who should write more clearly. :P
-
Found it:
No, because the cyberdeck isn't a separate icon while Jones is using it, it's his persona. Jones can invite a mark on his persona (because it's his), but not the deck icon (because it's not his). As to whether or not Jones spends his own action doing pushed Matrix actions, that's in the complex form description.
Hmm, the fact that a commlink/deck/whatever isn't available as a device or icon when it is a persona is a pretty big deal. For one, relating to Technomancers again, it means you couldn't have the whole "Machine Sprite using Diagnostics for a bonus to everything Matrix" on a deck because as soon as it was used, it becomes a Persona and isn't a valid target.
-
Yeah, I saw that. Note how Aaron actually never even mentioned a PAN, masters, slaves, or device-hood.
It doesn't really fit.
-
Out on the grid, you see the things around in a 100 Meter radius around your position, meaning the position of the device your are running persona is running on.
Do you have any reference for this? I know I've looked and not found any. I can personally see an argument either way, as in 100m radius from your Persona, and 100m radius from your device.
In this case, do you automatically spot any Icon within 100m radius of your device that is in the vicinity of the Seattle grid?
Or Icons within 100m radius of your Persona on the DeeCee grid?
These arbitrary 100 Meters (Letīs call them Detection Radius for now, itīs always better to have a keyword linked to something important like this) in which you automatically spot devices that are not running silent are often a point of contention, for multiple reasons:
- Despite it is questionable if your Persona = Device is running on, Iīm 90% sure your Personaīs physical Position is derived form your deviceīs Position. So when you "move" your Persona in the Matrix, itīs mostly a visual Metaphor. Itīs not like Astral Projektion, where you travel 50km away and can percieve the Auras there. In the Matrix, the Detection Radius always stays with the Device you Persona is running on. However: I can understand how you come to your conclusion, given the mushy usage of "Movement" in fluff texts, AND Iīm still only 90% sure and not 100% - this surely needs a detailed official clarification, because it would make a huge difference in Matrix gameplay!
- If Iīm correct here, it would be quite important to know how far you (meaning: the actual living being!) can be away from the device your Persona is running on. Whatever Interface you are using - AR Gloves, DNI, Click-Blinking... - these controls are usually wireless! Can I control a Persona running on a device in one place while being in another place, to get another "point of view" (i.e. the center of my Detection Radius) or to misdirect traces? (Also, can I target/hack these controls in the Matrix? :o)
- It is somewhat implied that you also know the physical location of things you have spotted in your Detection Radius and thus, donīt need to use Trace Icon anymore. Many tables I know prefer this interpretation, since it also makes things a bit faster. But are they correct? Is this RAI?
- If I automatically spotted an Icon because it entered my Detection Radius, do I automatically lose it when it leaves the Detection Radius again? RAW, I only lose Icons if they successfully hide from me or leave the Matrix.
Forgive me if I seemed flippant about the Masters-as-Slaves thing. I personally would have no problem with allowing it, I just think that you canīt really give "technical explanation" for man-made software protocolls: Someone decided that a device cannot be a Master or Slave at the same time, and now itīs part of the Matrix protocols.
But now that I further think about it, There is a HUGE issue with this that surely demands a Errata or Clarification:
Core Rules, P. 268: "There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with multiple devices slaved to a host. This is the world of that special kind of rigger, the security spider. They slave(!) their RCC to the buildings host and connect to the entire security system, including all of its slaved drones."
That would be a problem now, because RCCs need to be Masters to share Autosofts with their slaved Drones. Does this mean that Spiders donīt use shared Autosofts and have individual Autosofts running on their drones instead? Or can the slaved RCC still share Autosofts inside the Hostīs WAN (would make more sense IMO)? Can the security rigger even control his/her persona on the slaved RCC?
Also, is the RCC in this case visible outside the Host?
-
Forgive me if I seemed flippant about the Masters-as-Slaves thing. I personally would have no problem with allowing it, I just think that you canīt really give "technical explanation" for man-made software protocolls: Someone decided that a device cannot be a Master or Slave at the same time, and now itīs part of the Matrix protocols.
Well, you wondered why everyone wanted to daisy chain PANs. A reason is that it is a fundamental part of our modern technology. The idea that the future went backwards on that is kind of hard to swallow.*
It doesn't make sense, so it won't "stick" in players minds.
To make matters worse, it isn't even made for a good reason. It isn't like Wireless Bonuses are going to make or break anything. Even from the start, they felt like an afterthought. The cherry on a sunday. Sure, they may be the best part to some people, but nothing about the game would really change if they were suddenly removed.
*It is one of the reasons 4th Edition brought Wireless into Shadowrun. At the end of 3rd, it was getting harder to swallow that there was no wi-fi in the future.
When you (generic) come out of nowhere to say "You can't do in the future what you can do now," without there being an obvious reason for it... It just doesn't make sense. Right now, it comes across like it was arbitrarily decided to punish technology based characters - as if they are the ones that are the most game breaking.
In a tangentially related subject, it is a similar situation to the whole "movement on the Matrix" discussion we are having. Even though it is not technically correct, we (collectively) think about "going out on the web," "going to site ABC," not bringing those things to us. Not to mention the visuals for any VR computer experience always have the avatar moving to their destination.
There wasn't any defining point, that I could find, in the rules to make it clear how the Matrix worked in that regard. If the Matrix changes how players imagine the way the technology works, it needs to be made clear.
Then again, like with the chaining PANs, it still might not sink in. ;)
-
The "Movement in the Matrix"-thing is really icky, because the way things are right now (provided Iīm right about the RAI, which Iīm still not entirely sure!), the rules clash not only with the visual metaphor of the Matrix as a Virtual Space overlaying reality - I think it also clashes with the way Astral Projektions works. Now the Matrix and the Astral World are two different thing, but there are some parallels regarding the relation each of these "spheres" have to the real world, and many players feel inclined to further this parallels. F.i., some players like to see parallels between the two Matrix Interface Modes and the two "Modes" of interacting with the Astral Space and assume that it kinda works the same way:
- Persona = Astral Form -> My "Other Form"
- Augmented Reality = Astral Perception -> My other Form is still with my body/hardware
- Virtual Reality = Astral Perception -> My other Form can move around freely and leave the body/hardware behind
And it would be so wonderfully simple if it really worked this way, but it (most certainly...) doesn`t right now. It surely would be a good thing for the next rewriting of the Matrix for 6th Edition or the enhanced 5th Edition, tho. That or an official, unequivocal answer to the question: "Where is my personaīs location in the Matrix (in relation to the real world)?" Because, as I mentioned: Iīm still not 100% sure if Iīm correct here ;)
FYI, I also cooked up something in regards to this topic: https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=28047.msg505969 (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=28047.msg505969)
-
I'll be compiling all of the questioned points into the main post, while I do that here is another couple I remembered:
- Can a commlink/deck store more than one SIN at a time? Obviously, even if the device could broadcast more than one it would be a really silly thing to do.
- Can you transfer (cyber) Programs form one Deck to another? What if they have the same Owner? I know there was a ruling somewhere, if memory serves by Aaron, that a Decker can't copy programs (because they can't defeat the copy protection of all things), but what about transferring?
EDITed to add: Initial post updated with the questions posted so far. Let me know if I missed any.
-
Found it:
No, because the cyberdeck isn't a separate icon while Jones is using it, it's his persona. Jones can invite a mark on his persona (because it's his), but not the deck icon (because it's not his). As to whether or not Jones spends his own action doing pushed Matrix actions, that's in the complex form description.
Wasn't it stated somewhere that the deck's device icon and the hacker's persona icon merge, but it just displays the persona icon as a result? That seems like what the intent is anyway. For example:
If you put marks on a persona icon and run a trace, you get the location of the deck, not the location of the persona. Since the persona is right in front of the hacker, it would never make sense to trace it if you got the persona's location.
The way it read to me was that the persona icon stands in for the deck's device icon while the hacker is in the matrix. The deck doesn't disappear from the Matrix, but its ability to be directly targeted does. You have to target the persona to affect the device, but you can still affect the device, because it's still there doing its job.
The RCC example fits with this too. You can slave your RCC to a host and use it to control any relevant device that is slaved to the host. You aren't slaving your RCC to the host and then slaving those devices to your RCC. They are already slaved to the host, you are just inserting your RCC into the system to use its control functionality on the other devices available there.
-
I am a bit surprised that no one has complained/made remarks about the (new?) definition of Personas themselfs. :o
I found it rather surprising to read the paragraph on page 22, detailing that a persona is once-and-for-all fixed due to the matrix protocols. No matter the device you use to log into the matrix, your persona is one and the same - every time.
Once GOD has kicked your butt for being a matrix terrorist (or worse yet, a technomancer), what reason do they have for allowing your persona to ever reconnect to the matrix again - or sending a police squad to your location, once you do? Because they have faith in you and believe your can change your evil hacker ways?
That, and all that weird new noise equipment plus the true origins of the new matrix, rubbed me the wrong way.
-
Now whats the deal with the Editor Complex Form? Do I need a Mark on the File? Can I ignore File Protection? Will it trigger Data Bombs?