Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Tecumseh on <10-30-18/1552:27>
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Last night I used the Blast Out of Hands called shot (SR5, p. 195) for the first time. (I am the GM.) Here is the text of the rule:
Blast out of Hands: You knock an item out of your target’s hand, but the target takes no damage. Attacks intended to disarm suffer the normal –4 dice pool modifier for Called Shots as well as any other situational modifiers that apply such as wounds, lighting, or range. The defender rolls as normal. The item can be sent flying, coming to a rest (net hits - 1) meters from the defender. The item should travel in a direction away from the shooter.
Some questions that arose:
• Does the firing mode matter? Does the negative modifier to dodge a burst apply to "dodging" a Blast Out of Hands action? I ruled that the dodge penalty from burst fire did apply.
• Is there any "soak" roll, or is simply connecting with a single net hit sufficient? If there's no soak role then the implication is that it's as easy to knock something out of the hand(s) of a Strength 10 troll as it is a Strength 1 elf. And should it matter if the item is held with one hand or two hands?
I improvised on the fly and gave the target in question (a Strength 10 troll) a Strength*2 roll to soak the damage code of the attack (12DV from an assault rifle, I ruled that AP was irrelevant). That seemed more fair than no soak roll at all, but even so the odds of success were very low: there's only a 1% chance of getting 12 hits on 20 dice, which basically means that it's all-but-impossible to soak for anyone but the strongest of the strong. Perhaps that's realistic, but is that good game balance?
Dropping a weapon - or having it blasted out of your hands - is inconvenient, but not catastrophic: for the most part you can remedy the situation with a Simple Action to pick the weapon back up.
Questions for the forum:
1) Does anyone else use this called shot?
2) If so, do you use the rule straight out of the book or do you modify it at all?
3) Do you find things to be balanced? Overwhelming? Underwhelming?
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Probably of limited value if the GM lets you just shoot the gun in the first place via called shot. A hunk of metal may have a decent barrier rating, but something that small and dependent on finely machined action to work surely has a tiny structure rating, especially in comparison to the soak pools and condition monitors of shadowrunners. Plus a destroyed gun can't just be easily picked up or re-readied.
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This is a question of kinetic energy, verses the strength of the defender.
a .44mag round (a good stand in for a SR heavy revolver) and a 5.56mm round (typical assault rifle) hit with around 1400 joules of energy.
Or roughly 1000 foot pounds of pressure.
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I doubt a troll could hold onto an object when hit with that much energy at the speeds of a bullet for reaction time. :D
Of course, a 2 handed grip on something may prevent him from dropping it.. but that's your call, I would say my self a strength test would hold onto the item - which would also be next to impossible.
But other then that, If you remembered the -4 for the called shot, any lighting, distance, and wound modifiers then you're good.
Burst fire mods would help yes.
Generally speaking, when this type of thing happens in real life (there are you-tube videos of police snipers shooting guns out of suspect's hands) the weapon is usually destroyed by the impact... or at least rendered unfireable.... But SR doesn't really go that deep into damaged equipment that much.... Only really matrix damage and bricking - which can be fixed up fairly quickly.
And Really, how would you feel as a player if the GM shot up your guns every game (breaking them!) just cause he could :P
Yes, I've used it several times, both as a player and a GM... and it can add some really tense, dramatic scenes when used juuust right :D
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Thanks for the replies.
I was approach the question more from the standpoint of game balance. For example, right now the called shot is equally effective when using a hold-out pistol as when firing a sniper rifle because the weapon's damage code is irrelevant. Also irrelevant is what the target is holding or how they're holding it (e.g. one hand vs. two).
I think I like my improvised house rules that take the damage code of the weapon into account. And perhaps a soak roll is warranted too: Strength for something you're holding in one hand, Strength*2 for something you're holding in two. It still might be impossible to soak most of the time, but I think I like the slim chance better than the auto-fail.
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So basically you want to make it a called-shot-with-max-dv-0-after-soak or something, with a special rule that you use a special kind of soak roll?
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...very useful option. The "Chicago Kid" uses it, usually with her Ruger Warhawks loaded with EXEX handload. Being a Grade 7 Adept with Adept Centering she can get her full pool.
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Gecko Gloves! My wrists may be broken, but I still got my gun, you fools!
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Huh, there are called shots for hands and ankles, but not for wrists.
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RAW! No negative to my Automatics dice Pool! Gecko gloves OP.
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RAW! No negative to my Automatics dice Pool! Gecko gloves OP.
*Calls shot to the genitals instead*
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I'm sure the avatar pic will be copied soon, but I figured this whole affair has become humorous enough to warrant commemoration.
I'm not sure if anyone "got" the Devil Rat LAV joke from my old avatar anyway.
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how does he have the same name as Stainless?
this really is verging on performance art.
at least it's as annoying and self-righteous as most performance art.
har.
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how does he have the same name as Stainless?
Uppercase I vs lowercase l. It's all in how you spell "Steel".
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dang that is subtle.
odd that the forum permits "same name: different capitalization" as a unique user name.
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dang that is subtle.
odd that the forum permits "same name: different capitalization" as a unique user name.
It's literally a different name though, different letter. Capital i vs lowercase L. AdzIing/Adzling.
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take it from someone who learned the hard way :D
"An ignore a day, keeps the banhammer away"
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@Stainless SteeI Devil Rat/Notion
Junge, lass den Scheiß. Das einzige was du hier gewinnen kannst ist die Abneigung aller anderer Forumsnutzer. Und das Ziel dürftest du bereits gut übererfüllt haben...
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@Notion
Ja, klar.
Lassen wir mal beiseite als was du dich gendermäßig identifizierst: Dein Verhalten ist kindisch. Du bist nicht der erste und wirst nicht der letzte sein, der hier unangenehm auffällt. Aber der einzige dem du damit schadest bist du selbst, indem du dir die Chance verbaust von der hiesigen Community to profitieren.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
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hey she stole my persona too!
har
her tenaciousness is rather hilarious
Can you also duplicate the tone of my posts with reasonable similitude?
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I'm waiting for a MichaeI Chandra. I feel offended there isn't one yet.
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@Notion (or whoever you want to be acting like now)
I've tried to stay out of these heated discussions and remain objective. But enough is enough and I feel I need to speak up...
Take a second to make an objective look at your own behavior the last few days. I probably haven't seen everything because of threads and/or accounts being deleted, but just the parts I have seen and noticed include name calling, direct mockery, and insubordination against moderators. You've made numerous accounts now for the express purpose of circumventing a temporary ban and to continue to lash out at people and be purposefully disruptive.
Whether or not you feel that you were being trolled before, YOU ARE BEING A TROLL NOW. Discussions can get heated sometimes, and everyone involved was given warnings. You are the only one who has decided to escalate that behavior. You are not being singled out for being a dissenting voice, or because you are new.
Some of the responses you received may have been out of line, but by-and-large they were not "troll-ish"
Please stop continuing to be disruptive on these forums. The continued abusive behavior adds nothing, and by and large serves no purpose. It doesn't even hurt your targets as much as you might think it does. It's just annoying for everyone.
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Honestly, it takes less time to ban than it does to create a new (even if temporary) email and then forum account, so we'll keep up.
For moderators, it's an interesting part of time we would have spent on these forums anyway, so whatever.
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What's really fun is removing all traces of their posts from the forums. Locking threads, moving every word to the Forbidden Zone, and modifying thread starters so they appear to have nothing to say at all.
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sorry the mods have to fight this stuff.
but it has given me a chuckle the past couple of days
does that make me a bad person?
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sorry the mods have to fight this stuff.
but it has given me a chuckle the past couple of days
does that make me a bad person?
Nah. Me and my fiancée have been full out laughing the last few days about this. As Jayde said, it literally takes us seconds to ban someone and remove their posts. Meanwhile they have to jump through hoops on VPNs and such to get around a ban on their IP range in order to make dumb jokes. I kind of feel sorry for them since this is all they have right now. Here's hoping that they find the help they need or the attention they crave to realize "harassing" moderators is just a waste of time.
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Sorry this is off topic but i was slightly confused by it, so I have to ask is "Gargle my Testicles" a common insult German? Or is just miss translation? It just seemed so random.
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Honestly SSDR I think you win the most out of this whole thing. That is an awesome avatar pic. Well played Sir, Well played.
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Honestly SSDR I think you win the most out of this whole thing. That is an awesome avatar pic. Well played Sir, Well played.
Thanks, bro!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lRoTFihdSWjseA/giphy.gif)
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Right! Back on topic, people!
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So, given how ranged attacks can be tough enough already, plus this kind of attack comes at a surprise with a force you can't easily resist, it kinda makes sense that this attack doesn't take additional penalties. Same for the ammo-specific versions which actually do a bit of damage (and are resisted solely with Body). So personally I don't think I'd houserule this one, if only to preserve the rule of cool. With Gecko Grip, on the other hand, you'd get to add your +6 bonus on the defense test as far as resisting the called shot is concerned, but not on whether or not you get hit (matters for damage of the ammo-specific called shots and stuff).
So basically, with Gecko Grip: After rolling attack vs defense, throw 6 extra dice in an attempt to reduce the net hits of the attack to 0, to see if the weapon is blasted out of your hands. (Or throw a different color of dice, so it's easier to overview the entire pool for rerolls.)
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But in that case you'd have your weapon be hit directly and likely damaged by a bullet.
Since weapons count as Heavy Material, they are pretty easily destroyed that way.
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Nah, there's no rules about that so it's simply a matter of the weapon moving but you keeping your grip, vs it just getting knocked about. Because the weapon isn't a solid unmoving structure but something that moves with the flow.
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There's rules for targeting weapons in Run & Gun, but oddly they're limited to trained martial arts maneuvers... and even more bizarrely they're limited to being used in close combat only. E.G. you can use a sword to chop a gun, but the rule doesn't allow for use of a gun to shoot a gun.
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could be true for melee attacks but a not for bullets and other fast moving projectiles.
thats not how physics works.
Nah, there's no rules about that so it's simply a matter of the weapon moving but you keeping your grip, vs it just getting knocked about. Because the weapon isn't a solid unmoving structure but something that moves with the flow.