Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: kyoto kid on <12-26-18/1810:13>
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...OK been working on a Decker character for Neo Tokyo.
Going more for a stealth instead of combat Decker with the Like a Boss Quality, so she won't be bricking things. This doesn't men she can't create other mischief like editing a smartlink to eject a clip when the trigger is pulled, or having a pursuing vehicle slam on the brakes. As long as it doesn't cause matrix damage she can do it.
So one question to do this I imagine she would just need to hack the device get a couple marks and edit the code for whatever system she wants to affect. Or does she need knowledge of vehicles and firearms to do so?
The one downside to make her as stealthy and effective in the Matrix as possible, she sacrifices a bit in the meat world. Since this is Neo Tokyo, where all guns are rated "F" which means the inability to use Looper rounds as they only work in firearms (would be so nice to loop an external camera without having to climb up to attach a data cable to it). Not having a very high Agility (and not enough skill points), Palming (which is necessary for hiding a holdout or light pistol) is out.
For initiative boost in the meat world, mainly relying on Cram rather than a permanent augmentation (decks just take way too much out of resources). She also further augments her logic and intuition with Psyche. Both drugs are Designer grade which reduces the interaction roll by 1 (eliminating the risk of instant crash) and she has the Narco genemod which increases attribute boosts by +1. Yeah, here she is tiptoeing on ice, but both are psychological (Logic test) only and the higher grade reduces the addiction test threshold by -1.
The main part I am struggling with (since I last played one in 3ed) is which would be the most effective programmes to use and figuring out all the Matrix actions.
The character build is still a WIP so open to suggestions.
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OK so how does one embed a PDF in a post? Seems when adding an attachment the only way to see it is to download, there is no "view" option and I can understand why some may be apprehensive about doing so. In the art thread people can put images in however this is on my system at home so there is no URL to insert between the flags.
Really not into having to hand type everything out as I have severe arthritis.
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Here's a quick copypasta:
NAME: Violet 2.0
METATYPE: Human AGE:
SEX: HEIGHT: WEIGHT:
HAIR: EYES: SKIN:
STREET CRED: 0 NOTORIETY: 2 PUBLIC AWARENESS: 0
COMPOSURE: 7 JUDGE INTENTIONS: 8 MEMORY: 14
LIFT/CARRY: 6 LIFT/CARRY WEIGHT: 45 kg / 30 kg PRIMARY ARM: Left
MOVEMENT: 8/16 (2m/hit) SWIM: 3.5 (1m/hit)
NUYEN: 20,770¥ KARMA: 8 CAREER KARMA: 0
PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES MENTAL ATTRIBUTES SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES INITIATIVE
BODY: 3 CHARISMA: 3 EDGE: 5 INITIATIVE: 8 +1D6
AGILITY: 2 (4) INTUITION: 5 CURRENT EDGE POINTS:
REACTION: 3 LOGIC: 7 (9) ESSENCE: 1.84 RIGGER INITIATIVE: 8 +1D6
STRENGTH: 1 (3) WILLPOWER: 4 MATRIX AR: 8 +1D6
MATRIX COLD: 5 + DP +3D6
MATRIX HOT: 5 + DP +4D6
PHYSICAL LIMIT: 4 MENTAL LIMIT: 10 SOCIAL LIMIT: 4 ASTRAL LIMIT: 10
Audio Enhancement [+2] (Only
for Perception (Hearing))
Vision Enhancement [+2] (Only
for Perception (Visual))
Custom Ballistic Mask [+2] (Only
for Intimidation, Must be visible)
Securetech PPP: Arms Kit [-1]
(Must be visible)
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger [+1]
(Must be visible)
ACTIVE SKILLS
SKILL RTG POOL
Archery AGI
(Crossbow +2)
4 8
Computer LOG 2 11
Cybercombat LOG 3 12
Electronic Warfare LOG 6 15
Etiquette CHA
(Corporate +2)
3 6
ACTIVE SKILLS
SKILL RTG POOL
Hacking LOG 6 15
Hardware LOG 2 11
Perception INT
(Visual +2)
3 8
Software LOG 2 11
* Electronics 2
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS
SKILL RTG POOL
English INT +1
(Speak +2)
2 8
Japanese INT +1 Native
Area Knowledge: Neo-Tokyo INT
+1
3 9
Cybertechnology LOG +1 1 11
Data Havens INT +1
(Asia - Pacific +2)
2 8
Mathematics LOG +1 2 12
Matrix Gangs INT +1 2 8
Matrix Threats LOG +1 2 12
Puzzles INT +1 1 7
Security Procedures LOG +1
(Matrix +2)
1 11
Yakuza INT +1
(Turf +2)
1 7
Violet 2.0 file:///C:/Users/BC Shelby/Desktop/violet 2.0.htm
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QUALITY
Addiction (Mild): Psyche SR5 77
Addiction (Mild): Cram SR5 77
Code of Honor: Like a Boss DT 46
Exceptional Attribute: LOG SR5 72
Impenetrable Logic KC 76
Quick Config DT 46
Reduced Sense (Smell) RF 159
PHYSICAL DAMAGE
TRACK STUN DAMAGE TRACK
-1
-2
-3
Down OVR OVR
OVR Dead
Natural Recovery Pool
(1 day): 6
-1
-2
-3
Down
Natural Recovery Pool
(1 hour): 7
RESISTANCE POOL
Radiation 7
Judge Intentions 7
RESISTANCE - SPELLS POOL
Combat Spells
Direct, Mana 4
Direct, Physical 3
Indirect, Defense 8
Detection Spells 13
Health Spells
Decrease Attribute - Body 7
Decrease Attribute - Agility 8
Decrease Attribute - Reaction 7
Decrease Attribute - Strength 7
Decrease Attribute -
Charisma 7
Decrease Attribute - Intuition 9
Decrease Attribute - Logic 13
Decrease Attribute -
Willpower 8
Illusion Spells
Mana 13
Physical 14
Manipulation
Spells
Mental 13
Physical 6
RESISTANCE - DAMAGE
TYPE STUN PHYSICAL
Damage 23 23
Fire 27 27
Cold 23 23
Electricity 29 29
Acid 23 23
Falling 23 23
Fatigue 7
Sonic 4
RESISTANCE - TOXINS
AND PATHOGENS CONTACT INGESTION INHALATION INJECTION
Toxin 7 7 Immune 7
Pathogen 7 7 Immune 7
RESISTANCE - ADDICTION NOT ADDICTED YET ALREADY ADDICTED
Physiological 5 9
Psychological 11 11
IMPLANT ESSENCE GRADE
Antennae 0.08 Alphaware CF 74
Antennae 0.08 Alphaware CF 74
Antennae 0.08 Alphaware CF 74
Bone Lacing (Plastic) 0.40 Alphaware SR5 454
Cerebral Booster 2 0.40 Standard SR5 460
Datajack Plus 3 0.12 Alphaware KC 65
Biofeedback Filter; Configurator; Signal Scrub; Universal Connector Cord (Meter);
Mnemonic Enhancer 1 0.10 Standard SR5 460
Muscle Replacement 2 2.00 Standard SR5 455
Narco 0.20 None CF 159
Orthoskin 3 0.60 Alphaware SR5 459
Tetrachromatic Vision 0.10 None CF 161
Violet 2.0 file:///C:/Users/BC Shelby/Desktop/violet 2.0.htm
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ARMOR VALUE EQUIPPED
Custom Ballistic Mask +2 ** RG 74
Gas Mask
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger 13 ** RG 61
Custom Fit; Fire Resistance 4; Newest Model; Nonconductivity 6; Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3;
Holster
Total of equipped single highest armor and accessories 19
Other Armor
Securetech PPP: Arms Kit +1 RG 70
WEAPON POOL ACCURACY DAMAGE AP MODE RC AMMO [LOADED]
Ranger Sliver Pistol
Crossbow
8 7 (10) 4P - SS 2 4(m) RG 23
RANGE S M L E
Heavy Pistols 0-5 6-20 21-40 41-60
Personalized Grip; Smartgun System, Internal;
WEAPON POOL ACCURACY DAMAGE AP REACH
Unarmed Attack 3 4 4P - 0 SR5 132
NAME RTG QTY
Bolt: Stick-n-Shock
w/Static Shaft
(Crossbows)
- 20 RG 24
Contacts 3 1 SR5
443
Image Link, Vision Enhancement rating 2;
Cram (Designer Grade) - 4 SR5 1
NAME RTG QTY
Earbuds 3 1 SR5
445
Audio Enhancement rating 2, Sound Link;
Fake SIN (Motoko
Kusanagi)
3 1 SR5
442
Fake License rating 3 (Cyberdeck License) ,
Fake License rating 3 (Projectile License) ,
Fake License rating 3 (Restricted Cyberware
License) ;
Fly on a Wall - 1 DT 57
NAME RTG QTY
Monocle 2 1 SR5
444
Smartlink, Vision Magnification;
Psyche (Designer Grade) - 3 SR5 1
Smoke and Mirrors - 1 DT 57
DEVICE CATEGORY RATING ATTACK SLEAZE DATA PROC. FIREWALL
Novatech Navigator Cyberdecks 3 6 3 4 5 SR5 439
Armor, Blackout, Browse, Commlink Functionality with Camera, Micro, Chip Player, Credstick Reader, Earbuds, GPS Guidance System, Micro
Trid-Projector, Music Player, RFID Tag Scanner, Shock- and Water-Resistant Case, Touchscreen Display; Decryption, Defuse, Edit, Encryption,
Hardening ×2, Program Carrier (Baby Monitor) , Sim Module, Hot, Smoke and Mirrors, Universal Connector Cord (Meter), Vectored Signal
Filter, Virtual Machine;
Pulse Wave Commlinks 6 0 0 6 6 DT 17
Commlink Functionality with Camera, Micro, Chip Player, Credstick Reader, Earbuds, GPS Guidance System, Micro Trid-Projector, Music Player,
RFID Tag Scanner, Shock- and Water-Resistant Case, Touchscreen Display; Receiver;
LIFESTYLE LEVEL COST DURATION
The Dump Low 2,000¥ 1 Month SR5 369
Cramped; Obscure/Difficult to Find; Grid Subscription (Public Grid);
Violet 2.0 file:///C:/Users/BC Shelby/Desktop/violet 2.0.htm
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CONTACT LOCATION ARCHETYPE CONNECTION LOYALTY
Neo Tokyo Yakuza Soldier 3 3
Metatype: Human
Sex: Male
Age: Middle-Aged
Preferred Payment
Method:
Service (Free-Labor Jobs)
Hobbies/Vice: Social Habit (Cigarettes)
Personal Life: None of Your Damn Business
Type: Support
Dr Okada Neo Tokyo Physician 4 2
Metatype: Human
Sex: Female
Age: Middle-Aged
Preferred Payment
Method:
Cash (Credstick)
Hobbies/Vice: Gardening
Personal Life: Single
Type: Networking
Mr. Moto Neo Tokyo Fixer 5 2
Metatype: Dwarf (Koborokuru)
Sex: Male
Age: Middle-Aged
Preferred Payment
Method:
Cash (Credstick)
Hobbies/Vice: Noodle Carts
Personal Life: None of Your Damn Business
Type: Swag
Some random observations/thoughts:
3x antennae seems overkill. although if you took them more for Rule of Cool than mechanical necessity, then never mind :)
Programs? With 20k nuyen left over, just buy all of them. There's no reason not to.
The Muscle Replacement cyberware is a curious decision. Looking at the whole context of the character, I'm guessing you're using it to make up for glaring weakness left in physical stats after going for 7 Logic? (and not trying to be an Action Jackson per se?)
Skills: Ouch. Skills are usually the toughest area for me when I make a character, and I'm usually not even happy with the outcome of A priority skills. You gotta make do with what you got. One recommendation I'd make is to go ahead and swap Computer and Electronic Warfare. It looks like you put your 2 group points into Electronics. That's fine for Software and even Hardware (for a beginning decker) but you'll really wish you had more than 2 in Computer. On the flip side, Electronic Warfare is one of the least relevant "hacker" skills around. I'd bet that if you were to go ahead and break the Electronics group and put some points in Computer at the price of not being in EW instead that you'd be happier with the result in play.
Oh, and of course the usual advice about "put some points in Etiquette/Negotiation/Sneaking after play begins first chance you get..."
Combat Option: I'm not sure if smartgun tech is legal on crossbows, but looks like Chummer let you do it. Regardless, a dice pool of 8 (10) isn't getting the job done except against Paul Blarts and Surprised Opponents... so it's really 6 of one and half a dozen of the other no matter what combat skill you pick. Something you might think about are touch attack options, where you hit anyway on ties (tasers, shock gloves, and I'm not familiar with shock arrows but maybe those already are touch attack projectiles anyway). The weapon that makes maximum offensive value out of a limited die pool is grenades... everything after 3 hits is wasted anyway! Yeah yeah it's Neo-Tokyo, but I didn't say explosive grenades... you could look into some fun gas and smoke options!
Combat Option pt 2: Since you have 20K you've got to do something about, you could still get a combat pet in the form of a drone and let it do your fighting on your behalf! Best of all it can fight while you do hacking stuff! You don't necessarily need piloting skills- just spend money on a decent pilot program and autosofts. Double bonus: EW skill will be of heightened relevance if you do routinely operate a drone!
Qualities: Not to suggest you change them, but some lovelies I enjoy are Go Big or Go Home (DT 44), Overclocker (RF 148), and of course when Better than Bad is SRM legal every Hacker will take Instinctive Hack (2 karma; you get a free matrix action before the first pass of the first turn in a combat)
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...thanks. A little cluttered but I made a copy and will edit out the busy stuff to make it more readable. Really wish there was just a "view" option for an attachment instead of only downloading.
Yeah, skills are problematic for me as well. I did a couple switches (which will be in the revised post of the character) but not sure what group would make sense as most others are Charisma or physically based (middling attributes in both). For missions I don't believe you can break a skill group at chargen. Deckers really need skills at Priority B but that means really crappy attributes, particularly if the character is human (important in Neo Tokyo)
Yeah the muscle replacement seems a bit incongruous bit nice to have a little more Agility than 2 for movement purposes when things get scary. Went though a couple different concepts including Cyberlimbs (full synthetic arms which could work nicely into a backstory) or Muscle Toner bioware but both were more expensive.
As to bows and crossbows, yes you can get an internal smartlink (no "top mount" so the external doesn't work). I believe Static Shock/S&S bolts still have an effect on a matched hit result (I know incendiary bolts do but those are rather illegal everywhere). The issues I have with grenades is they can be easily avoided with a -5 interrupt action, and are indiscriminate meaning she could catch her chummers in the effect as with a low STR, she wouldn't have a decent range matrix. Not sure I like being the "up close and personal" type (touch attack) with her low physical attributes and again, low pool which would be easy to dodge as well as a low Physical Limit. One weapon I thought about that uses archery skill which could be interesting the Ares Giantslayer slingshot using capsule rounds that can be filled with all sorts of fun chemicals.
Really wanted to use Looper Rounds (don't need someone to climb up and attach a data cable/tap to a camera) but that means using a gun which is "F" in Neo Tokyo (even light pistols and holdouts). Sort of surprised they didn't also have Looper Heads for bolts & arrows, seems more plausible (considering there are S&S heads) than the Arrowlink.
The last time I played a Decker was in 3E (which also had an alternate build point system that made it easier to customise a character) where one was able to get up to 1 million in resources one and could build a decker with a fairly good deck who was great in the matrix and more functional/survivable in the meat world. Just isn't possible in 5th. The last one I had then was able to afford to compensate better for her lacking physical attributes with augmentations.
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Some more decker-centric thoughts:
I played a decker for 2 seasons worth of the Chicago campaign. I did Attributes A, Skills B, and Resources C. The schtick was the character was a former urban brawler. (and therefore I wanted non-decker physical attributes...) The point is, I started with a 58K Microdeck Summit cyberdeck and it worked out fine. Eventually I upgraded to a Hermes Chariot, and subsequent to that I ended up capturing and claiming a NPC's Sony CIY-720.
It's very easy to over-pay for a cyberdeck. Remember that until your skill pool is more than 3x the best limit you really don't need a more expensive deck yet (and don't forget that pre-edging means your ASDF stats are meaningless...). Hell, a Summit coupled with the Overclocker quality is all the deck you need until your die pool gets into the neighborhood of 18 dice. The Overclocker quality is huge, but you can also enhance your cheap-o deck's limits via even cheap-er programs. The real limitation of a cheap deck, unfortunately, is the low Device Ratings which in turn limits your program options... but you've already got the Datajack Plus to help get around that as well.
Something I'm intrigued by are the new decks in Kill Code. Particularly the security decks... they're locked with a Sleaze of 1, but you go ahead and run Smoke-n-Mirrors and go right around that achilles heel. I suspect there's a gem in there but haven't pursued it since I play a covert ops char now in Neo-Tokyo.
Speaking of my current Neo-Tokyo character... here's some Neo Tokyo Campaign thoughts:
Guns being forbidden is not THAT big a deal. Shooting people is also forbidden, and that's not about to stop you, is it? :D My philosophy is go with a pistol and palming. A nice small pistol if you're going for utility ammo anyway (like Looper rounds) since it's less likely it'll be found. And if it is found, remember that per the FAQ you basically are offered a social encounter to bribe your way out of trouble. Pay a couple hundred nuyen as a penalty for failing your palming check :D
Being a metahuman is also not that big a deal. My Neo-Tokyo character is not only an elf, but also female, AND a gaijin American. I actually kinda get morbidly excited when we meet a NPC where I hit the trifecta of all three prejudices. And even then, it's not a HUGE deal. So if you are tempted at all, don't let "but it's Neo-Tokyo" sway you out of it... the priority array implications is generally enough as is! :D
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...the background concept for this character is more of a stealth rather than in your face combat Decker, so for her sleaze rating is very important. For a number of matrix actions she'd routinely use, Electronic Warfare is fairly important skill for the pool. So trying an alternate build where I switched skills with attributes. Yeah it's a big hit as several attributes are 1 point lower, but then I can take the Electronics group at 5. She's is more the type who will get her marks get into an item and mess with it rather than brick it, like editing a Smartlink to drop the clip when the trigger is pulled, or have a pursuing vehicle suddenly slam its brakes on (she also has the Cats Paw programme which can add negative modifiers). Because of her "Like a Boss" quality she cannot cause actual matrix damage, but that doesn't preclude her from engaging other wireless based mayhem.
This version has Pistols skill so she can use S&S, Looper, or capsule rounds. I gave her one full obvious cyberarm on her primary hand (with Custom Agility and Armour 3 along with one synthetic cyberhand on her other both with the Snake Fingers option which aids in palming tests, specialised palming in Legerdemain (concealing). This was less costly than the Muscle Toner and still added to both her overall Strength and Agility (+1). In her primary hand she has an Agility of 4 so that should work for her pistol skill. I then gave her a Browning Ghost which has a base conceal of -3 (which in NT adds to the palming test giving her 12 dice) and is extremely quiet along with a concealed quckdraw holster (total conceal -4).
The downside of lower power decks is not just the number of programmes that can run simultaneously but their effectiveness against noise. Yeah, you can install a programme carrier to add a single programme but unless you are really quick at switching programmes and attributes (and/or have a lot of edge to blow to overcome limits) you can find yourself in a heap of trouble if an alert occurs .
For myself, a rating 3 Deck is the minimum I'd ever to go with, adding a programme carrier and using the new Datajack Plus which would give me a total of 7 progammes. Instead of the ambient rating 2 background count that Chicago has, Neo Tokyo has a persistent noise level of 2 so you need a lot of noise reduction, particularly if you are using programmes like Smoke & Mirrors to cover your tracks. As I currently have the character set up, she has noise reduction of 10: Deck rating (-3) Datajack Plus (-2), Signal Scrub (-2) and 3 antennae (-3 total). AS with the CZ, there are can be local areas in Neo Tokyo where the noise is higher than the ambient.
I rarely play metas in 5E because it means something else like skills or resources take a hit. I'd rather have a few more points of edge, particularly if the character has several lacking areas.
One quality I was hoping to see in Kill Code was something like "To Smart to be Hit" which would allow a character to use his/her logic in place of willpower for full defence. There is a quality that allows for that but it only applies when in the Matrix. I would think such a quality would make more sense than "Too Pretty to Hit" as a highly intelligent character is generally on edge and very calculating.
Well back to the alternate version. I'll post both later.
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ugh the auto-formating makes this stuff much harder to read then it needs to be.
Clearly hacking almost all in the advantages these days.
Like a Boss is a perfectly reasonable option but it does clearly demarcate a decker hacking method. I personally prefer the overclock perfect timing build if your gonna run the straight sleaze HotF method, it's a solid method.,
Finally double addiction is just kinda lazy, we have so so many, negative qualities now. I mean everyone favorite dead sin is here.
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...Exceptional Attribute kinda takes a big chunk of Karma and I believe it has to be taken at chargen. The plan is to later get Genetic Optimisation (Logic) and increasing the attribute to 10.
The alternate version I'm working on has both perfect time and quick configuration so she can swap programmes and deck attributes at whim (she also has Configurator on her Datajack Plus). Sadly her physical states take a little extra hit as like mentioned above I swapped skill and attribute priorities as for a stealth Decker as Electronic Warfare comes into play for several pools. Everybody is always bricking stuff with Hammer I am more interested in being a bit more "sly" and "creative" about messing up other people's tech.
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...yeah under the Priority System and reduced resources, I realise I just cannot create a Decker who can do a few more things than just hack systems like I had in 3E.
Ended up dumping the Exceptional Attribute to move that Attribute point into Charisma which frees up the Karma spent (she will need for contacts) and instead took Silence is Golden (which effectively negates the base ambient noise of NT). Also replaced Like a Boss with Faceless and Electronic Witness (more appropriate). If Missions allowed for Sum to Ten I'd go 4: Resources 3: Attributes 3: Skills, 0: Metatype 0: Magic, Yeah that would leave her with two less edge but then she'd have a slightly better Bod, Agility, Reaction and Charisma
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I maintain the cyberarm method is the most reliable method for combat decking. You can leave most physicals at very low, and just let the arm do the work.
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...yeah that was the idea. So if the arm is her primary hand does its Agility rating for that count for the pool when she's using her pistol?
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...yeah thatwas the idea. So if teh arm is her primary hand does its Agility rating for that count for the pool when she's using her pistol?
Cyberlimbs inherently rely on GM's whim, so that's a turn-off for some in SRM since there's the potential for a GM you've never played with to view things differently than you/your past GMs.
So the way it works is this:
Cyberlimbs have their own Strength and Agility ratings.
When a particular limb is used for a test (such as
leading an attack with your cyberarm), use the attribute
for that limb (natural or cyber); in any other case, take the
average value of all limbs involved in the task. If a task
requires the careful coordination of several limbs, use the
value of the weakest limb. The attributes of partial limbs
(including cyberhands and –feet) may be enhanced, but
their attributes only apply for tests directly involving
those limbs (such as a Strength Test when gripping something
with an enhanced cyberhand).
There's a good bit to unpack there. The first GM whim is determining whether the task you're doing can be done solely by a single cyberlimb or not. The next whim is "if not", then what limbs are involved (and just as importantly which are not) for the purposes of averaging the attributes across the parts of the body involved in the task.
So taking a break to digest what we have so far: If you go to thwack someone with a Katana, you might have one GM say you can just use the stats of one arm. The next GM might insist katanas are meant to be used two handed, and you have to use two arms. The third GM might say that not only do you use two arms, the two arms can't perform a task together without the foundation of your core, and since the torso is a potential "limb" as recognized by the cyberlimb rules, you average 3 'limbs' in the two arms and core body. Etc.
The next whim is whether or not the task involves "careful coordination of several limbs". If so, then there's no averaging but simply using the worst value of any body part involved.
Then finally another GM whim is triggered in the event you do partial limb replacements as to whether or not the task can be done by a partial limb.
Something I find of interest is how Chummer calculates AGI/STR when you have cyberlimbs. (I bring it up since it appears you're using it, too)
Chummer treats the body as having 6 limb slots (4 limbs, torso, skull) and gives you an augmented AGI/STR value based on averaging across 6 'limbs': 2 arms, 2 legs, torso, skull. Bear in mind the rules don't actually call out an augmented bonus to AGI/STR based on cyberlimbs, so Chummer is kind of reaching. In giving an augmented bonus, what it's really doing is showing you what your average stat is if the task at hand is averaged across all 6 limbs, including the agi/str of your head!. The GM deciding a task involves all 6 limbs is slim. And if the GM invokes "careful coordination between limbs", you just go with the lowest. If that's your natural stat, it's just that. There technically is no augmented bonus (unless it comes from something other the cyberlimb)
Chummer example: say you have an AGI of 2, but you buy a single cyberarm and end up pushing its AGI to 9. Chummer will show your AGI stat in the attributes block as 2(3), and down in the gear it'll specify your Cyberlimb as 9. If you go to shoot a SMG, and the GM insists you have to use 2 arms, you don't average 9 and 2(3) you average 9 and 2. And if the GM says shooting the SMG with two hands involves careful coordination, you just roll 2 not 2(3).
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...got that. Yeah never used cyberlimbs before (even in 3E) as they just seemed so complicated. For something like a light pistol, I can see the limb's full agility coming into play as that is usually fired one handed. I also can see that if you just have cyberarms, it makes sense they shouldn't affect your running speed. I do get the +1 bonus to Palming for the dual snake fingers in Chummer, so that at least works. and the average of the two (the right is only the base 3 Agility while the left, her primary hand, has a Custom 4 Agility. However, if I add custom agility to the right it doesn't change the pool (one would think it would). I mainly got the full arm so she had a better pool with pistols as the world outside of NT (the 2018 CMPs) is a lot rougher.
I'll have to ask my local Missions group how they handle cyberlimbs. We do have one character with a totally maxxed out full cyberarm who is pretty scary with it (like busting down doors with a punch).
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The accepted definition based upon the core book rules is so long as the weapon only uses the arm, it uses the arm's stats.
That comes from the core example:
Cyberlimbs have their own Strength and Agility ratings.
When a particular limb is used for a test (such as
leading an attack with your cyberarm), use the attribute
for that limb (natural or cyber);
No one has successfully argued another interpenetration on this board for that specific example.
After one yes it gets more complex, but keep in mind, most activities aren't going to involve more then two limbs.
Averaging two limbs when one is max possible rating is still going to give you a large bonus, for a low cost.
So yes arm are little complex but keep this in mind, A max limb will probably runs you 50k ish depend on what you put in it. But that arms plus 6 skill+ spec into pistols, and a smartllink you can easily hit 18 dice while shooting. It does other things as well it gives you extra health box and some pretty good armor. Yeah it takes some reading but a beefy cyberarm can do wonders for combat effectiveness.
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...
No one has successfully argued another interpenetration on this board for that specific example.
...
That's kind of a strange thing to say.
There's no need for any other interpretation, as the rules say what they say (and were quoted upthread).
I'm not sure if this is your point, but the rules don't say that any and all attacks ignore the rules regarding averaging across limbs or using only the lowest values in the case of "close coordination". It only says attacks that "lead" with the cyberlimb ignore averaging/lowest value. That is, pretty much just unarmed attacks? If you lead with the tip of your knife or edge of your katana you're not leading with your cyberfist... if you're attacking via pulling a trigger you're "leading" the attack with the point of a bullet... etc.
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Well SSDR it maybe silly but the argument has happened more then once.
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A young lady played a male dwarf decker called Phase, and did just this. Obvious cyberarm, Agility ramped to max, some armor, and an internal shotgun, firing out of the palm.
When the chips were down and their max-cybered gunbunny Capone invariably went down... Phase played clean up and brought everyone home.
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A young lady played a male dwarf decker called Phase, and did just this. Obvious cyberarm, Agility ramped to max, some armor, and an internal shotgun, firing out of the palm.
When the chips were down and their max-cybered gunbunny Capone invariably went down... Phase played clean up and brought everyone home.
It works well, it won't make a character a primary combatant by itself or anything but it does the job its intended to do very efficiently.
I really like my decker build that uses it. One my all time favorite builds in 5e. I only wish there was an equivalent build for TM.
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Yeah, a cyberarm IS a good way to make a character with bad physical stats contribute in combat, despite the provisio I mentioned about the potential for table variation.
For my Chicago campaign SRM decker, I went with a slightly different tack. I went with a skill hardwire. Bought 6 Skill in Pistols with essence and money rather than karma. I used a Savalette Guardian so its capability for burst fire helped offset the inability to edge the attacks, and noone was relying on the decker anyway to be the heavy hitter. What I found to be even more useful than gunfire was using Leadership, Small Unit Tactics skill, and Flash Paks for those times combat decking wasn't viable... hello Bug Spirits :(
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...Phase sounds like he'd work well for the Chicago seasons or a home brew. Not sure one could get away with an implanted gun in NT (rules are pretty strict about firearms there and it would show up on a scanner).
One has to be very discrete to avoid arrest requiring basically a light a pistol with a high conceal factor, low noise, and the character having a good palming skill. Yeah, the Yaks have guns (from what I've already seen, usually SMGs), but their families have the necessary "influence" to get the authorities to look the other way which PCs don't. Also firearms have a penalty which is added to the base to availability rating: +2 for light pistols, +4 for heavy pistols, Longarms and combat rifles +6, and Heavy weapons +8. (that Cyberarm Shotgun Phase has would have an availability of 18F in NT instead of 12R meaning it would have to be added later).
Anything more than a Semi Auto burst will attract the authorities like flies to sugar (possibly even an HTR team which usually shoots first and asks questions if anyone is still alive). NT is very much a "serious big brother" dystopia when it comes to use of excess force which includes spell casting as well (like massive boffo combat spells and mental manipulations).
Yeah, you basically need a character built more towards black trenchcoat than pink mohawk running which can make them more vulnerable to getting fragged in the season 9 CMPs as those occur outside of Japan where there are few if any restrictions on spells or firearms. I never have played my adept Snow Lily on any of those as she is primarily blades and archery, as well as not a "walking tank" like my JOT "kid" Leela from the Chicago seasons is (in her Medium Milspec with Beta Titanium Bone Lacing, Beta Orthoskin 4, and while on Kamikaze she effectively has a soak pool of 47 [counting in the hardened armour value of the armour and helmet], yeah a "mini Gundam" complete with double barrel rocket launcher).
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In point of fact Cyberweapons are actually optimal for Anti-gun settings like NT
This comes from the core:
For extra concealment, cyberguns are built from
mostly non-metallic compounds, and any metallic
parts are incorporated into the (cyber) arm’s structure.
All cyberguns have internal magazines (m) and can be
equipped with a hidden external ammo port. However,
once you attach a clip to the side of your forearm or
the back of your elbow, the cybergun becomes kind of
obvious. Laser sights and silencers/sound suppressors
are also available; other weapon accessories can’t be
installed in cyberguns. All cyberguns are pre-equipped
with smartgun systems (p. 433).
So in fact if you're gonna pack a gun where it's F to have one a cybergun obvious metal arm is actually really good way to do it.
They scan metal arm they are gonna find it's metal. Shocking.
At 18 dice you don't need more then one shot. At least in missions play.
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...ahh but the character has a synthetic not obvious cyberarm. The nice feature about the Ghost is it's improved conceal (-3) and Electronic Firing which makes it pretty quiet. All she really needs it for in NT is firing Looper Rounds (rating 5: Smart) so she doesn't need to climb up to an external camera to try and jack into it. Her backup use is firing capsule rounds with DMSO/Narcojet.
Also for the best advantage she would have to take a specialisation in Cyber Implant Weapons which means if she's on a CMP outside Japan and needs more "bang " than a light pistol (like a Savalette Guardian) she doesn't get the specialisation bonus to her pool (her specialisation is in Semiautomatics, which would come into play with any SA pistol she picks up). Part of the concept here is making a character who is also useful and survivable outside Japan where weapons laws are more relaxed.
My other NT character Snow Lily is a straight up "classic" Physical Adept trained in archery and swords (basically a 5E version of the Kyoto Kid character I originally played back in 1E as adepts aren't as crocked in NT by a persistent background count like they are in Chicago). Sadly she would not do well where guns are more accessible plentiful as she's not as heavily armoured and doesn't have a lot of legwork skills (awakened characters tend to be "Karma sinks").
Oh, I did put the question to my local Missions group and as long as it is a single hand weapon (like a pistol), she gets the the cyberarm's full Agility rating (6) as the base for her skill pool along with the internal smartlink. Her pool with any smartlinked SA pistol is 16, still not too shabby (and to successfully use Looper rounds requires only 2 hits against an inanimate item so even at a long range she likely would be successful).
Between a having palming pool of 14, the weapon's design and conforming ability, as well as having a concealed pocket in her coat, she has a pretty good chance of it not being found. If she needs to ditch it, a replacement is not expensive.
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...here is the revised character. Still a bit "fluid" as I haven't finalised her in Chummer yet.
Name: Tiger Lily
Metatype: Human
Age: 23
Sex: F
Nationality: Japanese
Ht: 182 CM
Wt: 41 KG
Hair: Black (variable)
Eyes Brown
Complexion: Japanese Fair
Handedness: Left
Priorities:
A: Resources
B: Skills
C: Attributes
D: Metatype (Human +3 special attributes)
E: Mundane
Attributes:
Body: 2
Agility: 2 (3) (6 Left arm)
Reaction: 2
Strength: 1 (2)
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 5
Logic: 6 [8]
Willpower: 4
Edge: 5
Initiative:
Meat World 7 +1D6
Matrix AR: 7 + 1d6
Matrix Cold: 10 + 3d6
Matrix Hot: 10 + 4d6
Attributes tests:
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 7
Memory: 13
Lift/Carry: 4 Lift/Carry Weight: 30 Kg / 20 Kg
Movement: 4/8 (2m/Hit) Swim: 1.5 (1m/Hit)
Limits:
Physical: 3
Mental: 10
Social: 4
Limit Modifiers:
Mental
Psyche [+1]
Audio Enhancement [+3] (Only for Perception (Hearing))
Vision Enhancement [+2] (Only for Perception (Visual))
Social
Custom Ballistic Mask [+2] (Onlyfor Intimidation, Must be visible)
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger [+1] (Must be visible)
Qualities
Positive: [23 Karma]
Analytical Mind (5 K)
Impenetrable Logic (3 K)
Overclocker (5 K)
Perfect Time (5 K)
Quick Config (5 K)
Negative: [23 Karma]
Addiction (Mild) (4 K)
Addiction (Mild) (4 K)
Echo Chamber (10 K)
Electronic Witness (5 K)
Active Skills
Computer 6 Pool: 15
Cybercombat 5 Pool: 13
Electronic Warfare 5 Pool: 13
Etiquette (Matrix +2) 3 Pool: 5 (7)
Hacking 6 Pool: 14
Hardware 2 Pool: 13
Perception (Visual +2) 5 Pool: 10 (13 Genemod)
Pistols (Semi Automatics +2 5 Pool 8 (10) (11/13 - left arm)
Palming (Legerdemain) 3 6 [8] (9/11 left arm)
Knowledge Skills (all + 1 for Mnemonic Enhancement)
English 2 Pool: 8
Japanese [Native]
Area Knowledge: Neo-Tokyo 3 Pool: 9
Codes 1 (Matrix +2) Pool: 10 (12)
Cybertechnology 1 Pool: 10
Data Havens 2 (Asia - Pacific +2) Pool: 8 (10)
Forensics 2 Pool: 11
Law Enforcement Procedures 2 Pool 8
Matrix Threats 2 Pool: 11
Puzzles 1 Pool: 7
Security Procedures 1 (Matrix +2) 10 Pool: 11
Yakuza 1 (Turf +2) Pool: 7 (9)
Nuyen: Starting 470,000¥ (10 Karma to resources) Remaining 4,371¥
Karma: 7 Career Karma: 0
Augmentations:
Cyber:
Antennae (3) [Retractable]
Datajack Plus 3
Biofeedback Filter
Configurator
Signal Scrub
Universal Connector Cord (Meter)
Smartlink
Synthetic Full Arm (Left)
Armour (Rating 2)
Customised Agility Rating (6)
Bio/Genware:
Bone Density Augmentation (Rating 2)
Cerebral Booster (Rating 2)
Increased Myelination
Mnemonic Enhancer (Rating 1)
Narco
Orthoskin (Rating 3)
Tetrachromatic Vision (Low Light and +3 to visual Perception)
Gear:
Armour
Custom Ballistic Mask (+2)
Gas Mask
Flare Comp
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger (13)
Custom Fit; Newest Model;
Chemical Protection 4
Nonconductivity 5
Concealed Pocket
Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3
Holster
Total of equipped single highest armor and accessories 20
Weapons:
Browning Ghost (Light Pistol)
Personalized Grip
Electonic Firing;
Smartgun System, Internal
Ammo
Looper Rounds (Rating 6) 20
Capsule Rounds (DMSO/Narcojet) 20
Spare Clips (4)
Other gear:
Contacts 3
Image Link,
Vision Enhancement rating 2;
Earbuds 3
Audio Enhancement rating 3
Endoscope
Low Light Flashlight;
Monocle 1
Vision Magnification
Disguises:
Faceless (Rating 5 Generic Face) [Earring]
Synthskin Face Mask (2)
Smart Wig
Tools:
Tool Kit
Data Tap (5)
Drugs:
Cram (Designer Grade) Qty 4
Psyche (Designer Grade) Qty 4
ID/Credsticks
Fake SIN (Motoko Kusanagi)
Fake License rating 3 (Cyberdeck License) ,
Fake License rating 3 (Projectile License) ,
Fake License rating 3 (Restricted Cyberware License)
Cyberdeck/Commlink
Novatech Navigator Dev 3 ASDF: 6 3 4 5
Hardening ×3
Program Carrier (Baby Monitor)
Sim Module, Hot,
Universal Connector Cord (Meter)
Vectored Signal Filter
Satellite Link
Programmes:
Browse
Edit
Virtual Machine
Encryption
Blackout,
Decryption
Defuse
Evaluate
Smoke and Mirrors,
Fork
Stealth
Bootstrap
Cat's Paw
Exploit,
Pulse Wave (Commlinks) Dev 6 ASDF 0 0 6 6
Lifestyle:
Low
Cramped
Obscure/Difficult to Find
Grid Subscription (Public Grid);
Contacts:
Dr Okada: Physician C5/L2 Metatype: Human (F) [7 Karma]
Mr. Moto: Fixer C5/L2 Metatype: Dwarf (Koborokuru) (M) [1 Karma]
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if you can find a way to squeeze the karma I think it'd be worth it to take the Cybertechnology active skill, and reallocate the point in it as a knowledge skill. As an active skill you can actually use it to tinker with your chrome (in the event you need to fix it or such mid-run). Since all active skills can also be used as knowledge skills, a Logic based Active skill will still give you the same dice pool when used as a professional knowledge skill (before the +1 bonus for mnemonic enhancement)
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KK - I'm just trying to reverse build your character (which generally seems quite solid) in Chummer so as to be able to add something constructive, and I'm not familiar with any differences between normal char gen and SRM...
It looks like you currently have 8 Active Skill Points not allocated (I presume you put your 5 group points into Cracking and then spent 12 Karma to break the group and raise your Hacking to 6).
If I have your Knowledge skills laid out right, it looks like you have 4 points remaining.
Given that you start with 25 karma, you put 10 into Nuyen and then spent 12 on Hacking, that only leaves you with 3 left - and your current qualities cancel each other out in terms of value so you should have 3 Karma at start instead of the 7 you list.
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...that would be great for a homebrew campaign.
In Missions, a number of technical and biotech skills are not used actively with some exceptions like First Aid, Demolitions, Locklpicking and Disguise. Others like Computer, Electronic Warfare, and Software come into play for certain matrix actions. There is no provision in Missions for performing B&R on devices, vehicles, of augmentations. Characters with demolitions cannot "cook" their own explosives. Nor can a character with Biotech and Chemistry create or modify drugs/toxins. Thus many technical skills end up becoming little more than knowledge skills you pay active points for. Yeah not incredibly fond of that.
If this character were in a Hombrew she'd bee looking to make custom mods to her deck, even build her own. I remember back in the days the credo of any Decker worth his/her salt was, "never trust anyone else's tech except your own." I had two different Decker characters back then both who designed and built their own cyberdecks [I even wrote up an Excel Spreadsheet to crunch all the test numbers based on successes, time factor, component prices, and lifestyle costs] The second one, Violet, came up with a deck that was somewhere in between Renracku Kraftwerk and Novatech Slimcase for about the same cost as a prebuilt Kraftwerk).
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KK - I'm just trying to reverse build your character (which generally seems quite solid) in Chummer so as to be able to add something constructive, and I'm not familiar with any differences between normal char gen and SRM...
It looks like you currently have 8 Active Skill Points not allocated (I presume you put your 5 group points into Cracking and then spent 12 Karma to break the group and raise your Hacking to 6).
If I have your Knowledge skills laid out right, it looks like you have 4 points remaining.
Given that you start with 25 karma, you put 10 into Nuyen and then spent 12 on Hacking, that only leaves you with 3 left - and your current qualities cancel each other out in terms of value so you should have 3 Karma at start instead of the 7 you list.
...I put the Group Points (5) into the Electronics Group hence all ratings for those skills being 5 with no specialisations. I just purchased the Cracking skills separately with the 36 active skill points. The concept is to be more of a Stealth than Combat Decker. No Karma was spent on skills at all (not even Knowledge Skills).
As to her Knowledge skills there are four Specialisations that took up the remaining Knowledge points. Ah forgot to note that she has Forensics 2 and Codes 1 with a specialisation in Matrix Codes. That would account for the unused 4 points. I will update the character.
For Missions, Skill Groups cannot be broken at Chargen (that is an optional rule and optional rules are generally disallowed).
One of the boosts she gets is when using Psyche which for her lasts 10 hours and has no real ill side effects. At Designer Grade and having the Genemod, this adds +2 to her Logic and Intuition which affect the linked skill pools, increasing each by 2 as well as reduced crash duration and addiction test threshold.
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Ah-ha - a copy/paste error. That would explain things - the last update above had Computer 6, Hardware 2 and omitted Software completely.
Good to know about SRM not allowing breaking of skill groups.
Though, in that case - what did you spend the other 8 Karma on? 25 base - 10 for nuyen gives 15 and you only declare 7 available.
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...letsee, 10 for Resources, and 8 on contacts (with a CHA of 2 she only had 6 contact points), which leaves 7 after the qualities balanced out at 23. Needed to have a fixer who could get a reasonable availability without markup (in Missions you use 2 x the Contact's Connection + 1 x Loyalty to determine the pool. At 5 and 2 respectively that is an effective pool 12. For them to find an item they have to "buy hits" at the rate of 4 dice for each hit so a pool of 12 = 3 hits and is sufficient to cover up to availability 15 before adding multipliers. Buying gear through a fixer also incurs a 10% "service charge".
For her to have access to Designer grade drugs, she needs a Physician or Chemist contact with a 5 Connection (per the Missions FAQ). I like have a bit better relationships than a Loyalty of 1 so I usually purchase my primary contacts at Connection 5 and Loyalty 2. The character also uses Cram for an initiative boost in the Meat World so she's often got two drugs in her system and Designer grade applies a -1 modifier to the Drug Interaction test so she only has a 1 in 6 chance of doubling the crash effects (after the duration for each runs out). This effectively makes a result of 6, 5 and a result 2, 1 with 1 being the lowest so she has twice the chance (on a 2 or 1) that both drugs' duration could be doubled. For resisting further addiction or needing a fix, she has 14 dice (Logic + Willpower as both substances only have a psychological addiction, not physical) with a threshold of 1 and 2 respectively.
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Cool. Thanks for the info.