Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Shinobi Killfist on <09-07-19/1657:00>
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I'm going to go through the rituals give the expected hits, what that means for a few basic dice pools weakest ritual to strongest. I'm too lazy to do the math and give the % odds, its been over 20 years since college and I have no desire to dust off the math skills part of my brain
Dice pool 1: Basic professional mage, 5 magic, 4 skill. 9 dice. Then with edge, then with a ritual group that can max the group test, then group with edge.
Die pool 2: Basic starting runner mage. 6 magic+skill 12 dice. same as above
Die Pool 3: a min maxed Runner 6 magic+6 skill+specialization+a ritual focus 4.18 dice. same as above.
Watcher threshold 4
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. Fail, watcher duration 1 hour, fail, watcher duration 3 hours, only the group with edge could summon a watcher with better stats.
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits. Failed, 2-3 hours, 2 hours, 6 hours, he would need edge or a group to succeed and could make it slightly better solo, and a a decent amount stronger with a group and edge.
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. 2 hour duration, 6 hour duration, 4 hour duration, 9 hour duration. Could always up it a bit, and quite a strong watcher at a group with edge.
Curse Threshold 5
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. Resisting 2 hits with a group with edge.
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits Resisting 0,3,2,5 hits.
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. Resisting 1,5,3,8 hits.
A lot of these can hit the threshold and exceed it. The ritual is silent on how this works. It is an illusion but do gross hits or net hits go against the targets defense. The sealing the ritual stage says the ritual will tell you how net works are used if at all. Its not described at all, bit obviously we need to know how it works my impression is it would be net hits given outside the attack ones they all use net hits. My numbers above are based on that.
Remote Sensing Threshold 5.
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. Range 1500/2500/2000/3500 Resisting 2 hits with a group with edge.
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits Range 2400/4200/3600/6000 Resisting 0,3,2,5 hits.
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. Range 3600/6000/4800/7800 Resisting 1,5,3,8 hits.
A lot of these can hit the threshold and exceed it. The ritual is silent on how this works. It is an detection spell and some can be resisted but do gross hits or net hits go against the targets defense. The sealing the ritual stage says the ritual will tell you how net works are used if at all. Its not described at all, bit obviously we need to know how it works my impression is it would be net hits given outside the attack ones they all use net hits. The range seems to be based on gross hits but they may be net in which case the range is much shorter. My numbers above are based on that.
Prodigal Spell Threshold 6.
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. Resisting 1 hits with a group with edge.
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits Resisting 0,2,1,4 hits.
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. Resisting 0,4,2,7 hits.
A lot of these can hit the threshold and exceed it. The ritual is silent on how this works. It is an combat spell but do gross hits or net hits go against the targets defense. The sealing the ritual stage says the ritual will tell you how net works are used if at all. Its not described at all, bit obviously we need to know how it works my impression is it would be net hits given outside the attack ones they all use net hits. My numbers above are based on that.
Renascence Threshold 6
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. fail/fail/fail/1 net hit so light level up or down 1 for 1 hour
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits fail/1 net hit maybe so maybe 1 hour/fail/4 net hits it lasts 4 hours
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. fail/4/2/5 net hits lasting equivalent hours and that level of manipulation effect
Ward Threshold 6
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. fail, fail, fail rating 1 ward lasting 1 week
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits fail, rating 1 ward, 1 week, fail, rating 4 ward lasting 4 weeks
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. fail, rating 4 ward lasting 4 weeks, r 2 ward/2weeks, rating 7 ward. 7 weeks.
Circle of protection.
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. fail, fail, fail rating 7 barrier 1 hour
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits fail, rating 7 barrier 1 hour, fail, r 10 barrier 4 hours
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. fail, rating 10 barrier 4 hours, r barrier, 2 hours, r 13 barrier, 7 hours.
Circle of Healing Threshold 7
1. 3 hits/5 hits/4 hits7 hits. Fail/fail/fail/fail
2. 4 hits/6.66(7)hits,6 hits,10 hits fail/fail/fail/3 net hits of health spell effect for net hit days.
3. 6 hits, 10 hits, 8 hits, 13 hits. fail/3/1/6 net hits of health spell effect for net hit days.
The ritual is a bit sparse on details for non healing spells like say improve attribute how long does it last, just while in the circle I assume but who knows. for healing spells can people leave and come back in for more healing does it only effect those in the circle at the time its made etc. 5e was light on details as well, but I thought that was a known issue.
On the mega extreme a team of wildcat shamans with focuses and a ritual pool of 36 dice after a team work test and edge you are looking at 20 hits at that level prodigal spell will probably kill you, but a runner will have an okay chance.
Now this may be working as intended, but for me its not. The difficulty of long range attack spells I'm all for, but setting up a ward or summoning a watcher should not have these barriers. Math wise IMO the difficulty should be set up on the assumption of success without edge, and with edge it should not break the system, or base it on a extended test so you can't use edge. As most PC teams have 1 mage they also should not be dependent on group tests. Functional without a group, better with one. For me these numbers don't have that happening. Maybe the idea was to remove rituals from the players, which is fine but it would seem better to save that kind of stuff for book 2.
Also the need for a ritual circle for all for these I think is kind of hinky. Wards are theoretically set up by independent contractors in many cases, it takes hours to place a temporary circle, it takes 4 hours to make a ward and that just leaves to narrow of a window given temporary circles disappear at sunset to make a ward for the dudes who in the setting are setting up wards, watchers are minor magical constructs and should be able to be constructed on the fly. That little parenthesis part under the ritual where it says(spell or anchored) should include Ritual circle, reagents as not all rituals should require those. Once you fold something basic like watchers into rituals not all the standard ritual things should apply. I think the thresholds need to be altered for most of these, ward should be threshold= to rating, watcher should be like 1 or 2 about the only ones that should stay the same IMO are Curse and Prodigal spell as attacks from miles away should be really hard.