Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: LukeZ on <09-11-19/0656:22>
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If I get 4 damage from drain and I have Magic 6, it's 4 stun damage.
If I get 7 damage from drain and I have Magic 6, it's 7 physical damage.
Is this correct?
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Yup, that's the switch they made now that Overcasting no longer is a thing.
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Ok. I had the doubt that if I get 7 damage from drain and I have Magic 6, it's 6 stun damage and 1 physical damage.
I imagine this would make magicians too powerful.
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Used to be that if you used a Force above your Magic, or a Limit above your Magic, then you'd eat Physical Drain. Since both Force and Limit are gone from Spellcasting, they decided to go drain instead. It's a very dangerous thing now... That risky spell that would give you 9 Stun was manageable, but if it means you're immediately almost in Overflow...
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I'd of preferred if it was physical if drain was higher than your magic before the drain test due to ease. But, this does create a interesting gamble type mechanic. Blow that drain resistance roll and the spell really hurts. I prefer this to 5e where you could pretty much always keep the drain manageable even with absurdly overcast spells .
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If always cast spells with drain <= to your Magic you are sure not to get Physical Damage.
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And if you really dare to "overcast", you can still be pretty damn sure to never get any physical Damage, because there is usually no drain left after soaking anyways. I don´t no how bad you have to fail your roll to still be left with 6 or 7 Drain after the Soak pool.
Well, Alchemists might actually be able to do so ::) Jeez, what a mess Magic in 6th Edition is.
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"If the hits are equal to or greater than the Drain Value, the drain has no effect. If the Drain Value is higher than the hits, the caster experiences Stun damage equal to the difference between hits and Drain Value. If the damage after the resistance test is higher than the caster’s Magic, the damage becomes Physical."
Huh. I'd misread this as the Stun-or-Physical thing being based on the unresisted value and not the after-resistance-reduced one. I prefer my misreading. As you say, physical damage seems very easy to avoid. The highest base drain value in the book is 6.
Edit to expand on that:
For example, Increase/decrease attribute can scale to drain value 9. A caster with Magic 6, rolling a mere 12 drain dice, and buying hits will still get that down to not-physical-damage. Similarly, the same caster could Amp Up most combat spells 1x or 2x and buy hits to avoid physical drain.
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We're discussing the rules here, so I strongly suggest people explicitly mark their houserules as wishful territory instead of rule-debate. Under RAW, it is extremely unlikely any GM will ever allow you to buy hits on drain tests:
"you need gamemaster approval
to buy hits. It should not happen in a circumstance
where a glitch or critical glitch would have a
significant impact on the test’s outcome."
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Under RAW, it is extremely unlikely any GM will ever allow you to buy hits on drain tests:
Hobbes and Lormyr disagree, and they've played tons of Missions and are both on the Demo Team, so they know far more than me.
Also buy the negligible drain
Did the GM not say "hahha, nope, we're gonna make you roll the drain and see when your luck runs out"? That's what I'd have done, for sure.
Eh. Unless there is a significant time crunch a box or two of stun is litterally nothing. Three boxes is a short nap. Buying hits is for when there isn't a significant chance or penalty for failure. Soaking drain while sitting around a hotel room watching trid with an afternoon to kill would certainly qualify.
It's a GM call, but buying hits moves the dull stuff along.
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Anyway, to short circuit any further tedious and off-topic discussion on whether or not buying hits on drain in accordance with RAW qualifies as a "houserule", let me modify my post to:
For example, Increase/decrease attribute can scale to drain value 9. A caster with Magic 6, rolling a mere 12 drain dice and not choosing to use any Edge, will still get that down to not-physical-damage 82% of the time. Similarly, the same caster could Amp Up most combat spells 1x or 2x and avoid physical drain 80-85% of the time, again without falling back to using Edge on the drain roll.
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We're discussing the rules here, so I strongly suggest people explicitly mark their houserules as wishful territory instead of rule-debate. Under RAW, it is extremely unlikely any GM will ever allow you to buy hits on drain tests:
"you need gamemaster approval
to buy hits. It should not happen in a circumstance
where a glitch or critical glitch would have a
significant impact on the test’s outcome."
Arguably a Glitch or Critical Glitch is a possibility on any test and would have a significant impact on the test's outcome. Applying that rigorously means you basically never buy hits, which is fine. Roll dice all you want. Letting players buy hits is a GM call. My rule of thumb is out of combat, no time pressure, no meaningful consequence for failing, yeah just buy the hits. All up to the GM.
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This is my take. More. . ."adversarial" GMs or GMs with a "I have to challenge my players no matter what" mentality will probably rarely or never allow buying hits in any situation that could result in damage to your character or a critical flub.
I personally will allows allow players to buy hits, without exception, and I even encourage it. My only rule is you must choose to roll or buy hits before knowing the result of your opposition. I do this because 95% of my play is Missions, buying hits saves the table time, and if you can succeed with only the 25% success ratio of your dice pool then chances are good you will succeed with the 33% rolled.
I've only played Missions in Ohio, but I have played in Columbus, Cincinnati, and Dayton. Here, a player saying they will buy hits is rarely overruled.
Towards the end of Phain's Chicago career, I did have one GM who refused to let me buy hits for drain tests. At that time I was rolling 44 dice, and finally after my 12th buff cast on the party just during our prep the guy finally relented. I told him that watching all of these rolls like a hawk for the 6-9 points of drain I was resisting on that many dice would be a lot more tedious for him that it is for me, and I was right.
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if you can succeed with only the 25% success ratio of your dice pool then chances are good you will succeed with the 33% rolled.
This is actually why I said "buy hits" above. It moves around a bit with dice pool size, but as a rule of thumb, you're only going to do worse rolling rather than buying hits 10-20% of the time. So if a given test is buyable, then regardless of whether the character buys or rolls, you can know that -- statistically -- it's a pretty trivial challenge. Which is the point I was attempting to make above when I talked about a mediocre statted mage facing DV9.
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Right, and I agree with you, in particular when I only have 3-4 hours to run a Mission.
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Right, and I agree with you, in particular when I only have 3-4 hours to run a Mission.
For sure. It takes my table most of a 2.5 hour session (the most we play due to real-life logistics) to run a moderately complex combat scene! I'm super impressed you can cover the ground that fast :)