Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: taukarrie on <09-19-19/1032:37>
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I know the cyberjack acts as a supercharged datajack, but it also sort of seems like it acts as a commlink but I cant find anything in the book that definitively states that one way or another. I know you can hack with a cyberjack/cyberdeck combo, which doesnt include a commlink, so it certainly seems like the case. and the cyberjack seems to have all of the same stats as a commlink. So could I just get a cyberjack only and walk around browsing the matrix and making vid calls and stuff (with image linked cybereyes)? or do I need an actual commlink or cyberdeck to pair with the cyberjack for matrix access? If I do need a commlink which D/F stats am I using when things happen?
If the cyberjack IS independent of a commlink.. what if I didnt have the essence for a high grade cyberjack but I had the cash for a top grade commlink. So whenever I need a high device rating over higher D/F values can I just use the cyberjack as a normal datajack and go online with my commlink instead?
I feel like I just need to choose which devices to create a persona with choosing some combination of datajack, cyberjack, commlink, cyberdeck, and RCC and whichever ASDF stats and device rating i get from the combo determines what actions i can take in the matrix, given the required skills, and how many devices I can link to my network. But the cyberjack/commlink relationship is confusing.
Is there any benefit to having multiple cyberjacks or combination of datajacks and cyberjacks?
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The cyberjack does not share functions with the commlink except for also providing (superior) Data Processing and Firewall Matrix attributes. It is more like an extremely advanced data jack. Originally, the cyberdeck contained all of the Matrix attributes used by a decker. Even with this change in Matrix attribute allocation, the cyberdeck still provides the same functionality of a commlink as well as allowing the decker to hack the Matrix. It just no longer provides the Data Processing and Firewall attributes.
Additionally, do not need a cyberjack to hack the Matrix. You can use a commlink and a cyberdeck to do that. However, the cyberjack allows you to do it better, faster, and I believe it also allows you to take Matrix specific Edge actions that using a commlink would not.
There would also be no need to take a cyberjack and a datajack as the cyberjack also provides the functionality of the datajack. Given that a cyberdeck is technically illegal, it's not a bad idea to have a low cost commlink to appear to use when in public so you can hide your cyberdeck. Arguably, the benefit of a high end commlink would be that you can load up additional programs beyond the capacity of your cyberdeck's maximum but this is something you'd want to clear with your GM first. Rules as written neither confirm nor exclude this option.
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The cyberjack does not share functions with the commlink except for also providing (superior) Data Processing and Firewall Matrix attributes. It is more like an extremely advanced data jack. Originally, the cyberdeck contained all of the Matrix attributes used by a decker. Even with this change in Matrix attribute allocation, the cyberdeck still provides the same functionality of a commlink as well as allowing the decker to hack the Matrix. It just no longer provides the Data Processing and Firewall attributes.
Additionally, do not need a cyberjack to hack the Matrix. You can use a commlink and a cyberdeck to do that. However, the cyberjack allows you to do it better, faster, and I believe it also allows you to take Matrix specific Edge actions that using a commlink would not.
There would also be no need to take a cyberjack and a datajack as the cyberjack also provides the functionality of the datajack. Given that a cyberdeck is technically illegal, it's not a bad idea to have a low cost commlink to appear to use when in public so you can hide your cyberdeck. Arguably, the benefit of a high end commlink would be that you can load up additional programs beyond the capacity of your cyberdeck's maximum but this is something you'd want to clear with your GM first. Rules as written neither confirm nor exclude this option.
Ok so how does a RCC fit in? By the rules it looks like you get ASDF with a RCC/cyberdeck combo. But i read elsewhere that this is prohibited, and that feels like an arbitrary restriction just to prevent people from decking and rigging at the same time because it otherwise doesnt seem to follow the pattern the other device combos do for matrix access.
and can you use an RCC alone with a cyberjack/datajack to access the matrix the same as you can with a cyberdeck alone?
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The cyberjack does not share functions with the commlink except for also providing (superior) Data Processing and Firewall Matrix attributes. It is more like an extremely advanced data jack. Originally, the cyberdeck contained all of the Matrix attributes used by a decker. Even with this change in Matrix attribute allocation, the cyberdeck still provides the same functionality of a commlink as well as allowing the decker to hack the Matrix. It just no longer provides the Data Processing and Firewall attributes.
Additionally, do not need a cyberjack to hack the Matrix. You can use a commlink and a cyberdeck to do that. However, the cyberjack allows you to do it better, faster, and I believe it also allows you to take Matrix specific Edge actions that using a commlink would not.
There would also be no need to take a cyberjack and a datajack as the cyberjack also provides the functionality of the datajack. Given that a cyberdeck is technically illegal, it's not a bad idea to have a low cost commlink to appear to use when in public so you can hide your cyberdeck. Arguably, the benefit of a high end commlink would be that you can load up additional programs beyond the capacity of your cyberdeck's maximum but this is something you'd want to clear with your GM first. Rules as written neither confirm nor exclude this option.
Ok so how does a RCC fit in? By the rules it looks like you get ASDF with a RCC/cyberdeck combo. But i read elsewhere that this is prohibited, and that feels like an arbitrary restriction just to prevent people from decking and rigging at the same time because it otherwise doesnt seem to follow the pattern the other device combos do for matrix access.
and can you use an RCC alone with a cyberjack/datajack to access the matrix the same as you can with a cyberdeck alone?
Sort of ... yes you can use a RCC with a cyberjack or data Jack to access the matrix and run matrix overwatch/defense but a RCC can be used for hacking
In game reason for this is because RCC have a different operating system that does not allow the proper interface that's required... but behind the scenes yes it is a game balance issue. We want riggers to be able to do things with the matrix but we don't want them replacing deckers or vice versa
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Sort of ... yes you can use a RCC with a cyberjack or data Jack to access the matrix and run matrix overwatch/defense but a RCC can be used for hacking
Did you mean "CAN'T be used for hacking"? I think that's what you meant.
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Sort of ... yes you can use a RCC with a cyberjack or data Jack to access the matrix and run matrix overwatch/defense but a RCC can be used for hacking
Did you mean "CAN'T be used for hacking"? I think that's what you meant.
Yep ... typing on phone ... it sucks 😉
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I swipe instead. More reliable.
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It is my understanding that you may only use one out of: commlink, RCC or cyberdeck. Just like previous editions it seem as if you are not allowed to use two of them at the same time. Which mean you can't for example both enjoy an attack and sleaze rating (by using a cyberdeck) while you at command multiple drones at the same time (by using a RCC).
Cyberjack is basically just a datajack (but with the added benefit that it comes with data processing and firewall ratings of its own and also that it allow you to take matrix edge actions). You can combine your commlink, RCC or cyberdeck with a cyberjack, if you have one, but you don't have to.
Cyberdeck-users (Deckers) will obviously get most mileage out of a cyberjack since cyberdecks don't come with its own data processing or firewall rating and most of the matrix specific edge actions require that you use a cyberdeck (or a living persona), but commlink and RCC users (or perhaps more common - a decker that temporarily switch to a commlink or RCC instead of his or her cyberdeck) might benefit from having a cyberjack in that the cyberjack enable you to temporarily increase data processing or firewall by 1 per edge spend for one test and it could also provide you with excellent data processing and firewall ratings even if you are using a low end commlink (or RCC).
RCC-users (Riggers) would probably rather get a control rig than a cyberjack or datajack. The control rig is what let a Rigger jump into devices that have a rigger interface (but just like a cyberjack it also act as as a datajack).
Most commlink-users (pretty much anyone that is not a technology specialist) would probably just get a datajack rather than a cyberjack or control rig.
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It is my understanding that you may only use one out of: commlink, RCC or cyberdeck. Just like previous editions it seem as if you are not allowed to use two of them at the same time. Which mean you can't for example both enjoy an attack and sleaze rating (by using a cyberdeck) while you at command multiple drones at the same time (by using a RCC).
Cyberjack is basically just a datajack (but with the added benefit that it comes with data processing and firewall ratings of its own and also that it allow you to take matrix edge actions). You can combine your commlink, RCC or cyberdeck with a cyberjack, if you have one, but you don't have to.
Cyberdeck-users (Deckers) will obviously get most mileage out of a cyberjack since cyberdecks don't come with its own data processing or firewall rating and most of the matrix specific edge actions require that you use a cyberdeck (or a living persona), but commlink and RCC users (or perhaps more common - a decker that temporarily switch to a commlink or RCC instead of his or her cyberdeck) might benefit from having a cyberjack in that the cyberjack enable you to temporarily increase data processing or firewall by 1 per edge spend for one test and it could also provide you with excellent data processing and firewall ratings even if you are using a low end commlink (or RCC).
RCC-users (Riggers) would probably rather get a control rig than a cyberjack or datajack. The control rig is what let a Rigger jump into devices that have a rigger interface (but just like a cyberjack it also act as as a datajack).
Most commlink-users (pretty much anyone that is not a technology specialist) would probably just get a datajack rather than a cyberjack or control rig.
Yep ... that's what I intended anyway. There are some editorial changes that make that fuzzy. Such as the ability to swap attributes across multiple devices and it doesn't say what to do about zero rank attributes.
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It is my understanding that you may only use one out of: commlink, RCC or cyberdeck. Just like previous editions it seem as if you are not allowed to use two of them at the same time. Which mean you can't for example both enjoy an attack and sleaze rating (by using a cyberdeck) while you at command multiple drones at the same time (by using a RCC).
Cyberjack is basically just a datajack (but with the added benefit that it comes with data processing and firewall ratings of its own and also that it allow you to take matrix edge actions). You can combine your commlink, RCC or cyberdeck with a cyberjack, if you have one, but you don't have to.
Cyberdeck-users (Deckers) will obviously get most mileage out of a cyberjack since cyberdecks don't come with its own data processing or firewall rating and most of the matrix specific edge actions require that you use a cyberdeck (or a living persona), but commlink and RCC users (or perhaps more common - a decker that temporarily switch to a commlink or RCC instead of his or her cyberdeck) might benefit from having a cyberjack in that the cyberjack enable you to temporarily increase data processing or firewall by 1 per edge spend for one test and it could also provide you with excellent data processing and firewall ratings even if you are using a low end commlink (or RCC).
RCC-users (Riggers) would probably rather get a control rig than a cyberjack or datajack. The control rig is what let a Rigger jump into devices that have a rigger interface (but just like a cyberjack it also act as as a datajack).
Most commlink-users (pretty much anyone that is not a technology specialist) would probably just get a datajack rather than a cyberjack or control rig.
Yep ... that's what I intended anyway. There are some editorial changes that make that fuzzy. Such as the ability to swap attributes across multiple devices and it doesn't say what to do about zero rank attributes.
Yeah, was going to ask about that. Even if a RCC and Cyberdeck can't combine to generate a persona, what about a RCC+Cyberjack? Even if the RCC isn't allowed to turn its D/F into A/S, the Cyberjack is...
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The cyberjack does not share functions with the commlink except for also providing (superior) Data Processing and Firewall Matrix attributes. It is more like an extremely advanced data jack. Originally, the cyberdeck contained all of the Matrix attributes used by a decker. Even with this change in Matrix attribute allocation, the cyberdeck still provides the same functionality of a commlink as well as allowing the decker to hack the Matrix. It just no longer provides the Data Processing and Firewall attributes.
Additionally, do not need a cyberjack to hack the Matrix. You can use a commlink and a cyberdeck to do that. However, the cyberjack allows you to do it better, faster, and I believe it also allows you to take Matrix specific Edge actions that using a commlink would not.
There would also be no need to take a cyberjack and a datajack as the cyberjack also provides the functionality of the datajack. Given that a cyberdeck is technically illegal, it's not a bad idea to have a low cost commlink to appear to use when in public so you can hide your cyberdeck. Arguably, the benefit of a high end commlink would be that you can load up additional programs beyond the capacity of your cyberdeck's maximum but this is something you'd want to clear with your GM first. Rules as written neither confirm nor exclude this option.
Ok so how does a RCC fit in? By the rules it looks like you get ASDF with a RCC/cyberdeck combo. But i read elsewhere that this is prohibited, and that feels like an arbitrary restriction just to prevent people from decking and rigging at the same time because it otherwise doesnt seem to follow the pattern the other device combos do for matrix access.
and can you use an RCC alone with a cyberjack/datajack to access the matrix the same as you can with a cyberdeck alone?
Sort of ... yes you can use a RCC with a cyberjack or data Jack to access the matrix and run matrix overwatch/defense but a RCC can be used for hacking
In game reason for this is because RCC have a different operating system that does not allow the proper interface that's required... but behind the scenes yes it is a game balance issue. We want riggers to be able to do things with the matrix but we don't want them replacing deckers or vice versa
Ok, I think I understand things properly now. One last question;
Physically, what I am I looking at with an RCC. I know commlinks are, more or less, cell phones, cyberdecks are gauntlets, and the rest is headware. The RCC sounds like a fancy chair. Is it actually that big or are they meant to be more manageable. right now I envision a chair similar to the cradles they lay on in the Matrix movies, maybe with a couple monitors or something. And Id also imagine these can be custom made to replace the driver seat of a vehicle. I would just like to hear a slightly more detailed description than "console"
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5e described it as a deck-like thing that's the size of a briefcase. The 'captain's chair' thing is probably metaphorical.
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I personally have always imagined a RCC as being more like a remote control ... like you see on BattleBots ... but maybe a bit bigger and more bells and whistles
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I personally have always imagined a RCC as being more like a remote control ... like you see on BattleBots ... but maybe a bit bigger and more bells and whistles
Interesting. If its intended to be that small I wouldve expected an option to install one in a cyberarm like you can a cyberdeck. That fact that it isn't available contributed to my assumption that it was pretty big.
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I once saw some SR inspired art that really gave me a great idea about what it could be like. It was a military rigger who's RCC was more like a harness around her torso, hips, upper arms, and lower legs. It still allowed for total range of movement but was clearly meant to be the "remote control" you'd expect to see on modern RC cars. I really liked that idea because it freed the character up to also be a combatant while really showing how a good rigger is a serious force multiplier.
That said, some other great art I saw presented a civilian RCC as a large, thin tablet device much like the description of a cyberdeck in 5e. I think both of these are probably good ideas as the "distributed" RCC on a harness makes a lot of sense for a military rigger but the tablet form factor makes sense as a baseline. It would even allow for visual relay from the drone's onboard sensor systems. Meanwhile, older art very much has the RCC as a larger than modern RC device with an antenna and analogue joysticks. Goes to show that there's a lot of room for form factors and, really, your imagination is the limit. Why not have an advanced VCR/RCC combo be an actual seat that you wire into? Why not give a combat rigger a distributed harness? Let a reporter rigger use a tablet form factor to control recording equipment!
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I love that wearable RCC idea.
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5e described it as a deck-like thing that's the size of a briefcase. The 'captain's chair' thing is probably metaphorical.
Read it that way as well; they had the same size in 5th Edition too.
That being said: Size, Style and Portability of RCCs, Decks and Commlinks offers a lot of untapped potential to tinker around in future supplements or for homebrew gear options. I´m not just talking about miniaturization, but also about deliberately buying a bigger and "clunkier" setups: "Commlinks" the size of actual laptops, RCCs and Decks that are employed like a Desktop PC setup, or even an updated version of the Echo Mirage-age VR-hacking booths, with loads of cables and a sensory deprivation tank. In return for the limited portability, these could offer better stats or other perks for Hackers/Riggers that prefer to stay in the Van (or in their home) anyways.
Sure, most Hacker/Rigger players prefer to stay fleetfooted, but some actually like the cliché "Hacking Van" or even the "Basement dweller" from the movies so much that they might take the deal. Also, these are great for NPC like security spiders or even GOD agents.
I love that wearable RCC idea.
Me too, hits the same spot from a different angle. In 5th Edition, there were only "form factors" as a means of conceilment. A more diverse setup of interfaces and form factors would be terrific.
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Commlink is basically a smartphone
Cyberdeck is basically a tablet
RCC is basically a laptop
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Cyberdeck is basically a tablet
No, it's a Nintendo PowerGlove now.
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From 5e CRB:
(http://adragon202.no-ip.org/Shadowrun/images/b/be/SR5_Cyberdeck_Hermes_Chariot.png)
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From 5e CRB:
From 6e CRB pg 267: "When the corps cracked down on the Matrix, working hard to prevent illicit use of their pretty new system, the cyberdeck re-emerged as the tool for messing with innards of the Matrix. They are powerful devices in the hands of a skilled decker. The newest models look something like medieval bracers, only less bulky. They’re worn on the wrist and can project keyboards (or whatever interface the user prefers) onto the user’s arm, a nearby surface, or just the air around them."
(Edit - and this is a 6e-specific thread.)
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The cyberjack does not share functions with the commlink except for also providing (superior) Data Processing and Firewall Matrix attributes. It is more like an extremely advanced data jack. ... the cyberdeck still provides the same functionality of a commlink as well as allowing the decker to hack the Matrix. It just no longer provides the Data Processing and Firewall attributes.
This is just backwards, intuitively. I think it's a bad idea. Whatever device has the DataProc and Firewall should also have the commlink functionality. Commlinks have D/F, cyberjacks have D/F, cyberjacks should be beefed up commlinks.
pg. 247, describing the PAN: "These are networks composed of a commlink and/or a deck, with a small number of devices slaved behind it. "
You can't even create a PAN with a cyberdeck alone, without doing an attribute swap first. It would have max slaved devices of 0 and 0 defense.
Even this has to be inferred:
Cyberdecks are listed as having A/S
Elsewhere it says "If a device doesn't have an attribute, treat it as 0."
So really cyberdecks have A/S/D/F, but D/F are 0.
Then it says "Deckers can rotate all attributes through their persona"
and then we have to infer Decker = cyberdeck user, so cyberdecks let us rotate attributes, else anyone could get A/S, it's a legal action.
So a cyberdeck could go from ex. 7/8/0/0 to 0/0/7/8, and make a PAN.
Whew.
This is why the OP's question comes up. Cyberdecks as presented make more sense conceptually as something that weaponizes a computer platform, not being the platform itself. It's even worn as a gauntlet. If that's not a weapon metaphor I dunno what is.
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The cyberjack’s function is to offload the Data Processing and Firewall functions by utilizing the superior power of the human brain to more effectively, efficiently, and rapidly respond to the demands of Matrix protocols and encryption methods. This is what allows a decker to take Matrix Edge actions, just like a technomancer. The cyberjack is built on research of technomancer brains and is a beefed up datajack. Like a datajack, it allows for DNI but is also not a commlink-like device. That a commlink also has (inferior) Data Processing and Firewall functions doesn’t matter. Normal Matrix user utilize a commlink to access the legal functions of the Matrix. The cyberdeck can perform those same legal functions, in addition to also allowing for illegal hacking actions. You can utilize a commlink with a cyberdeck to hack the Matrix but to be actually good at it requires a cyberjack. The three devices all share certain traits but they each serve different functions and purposes and should not be seen as interchangeable.
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The cyberjack’s function is to offload the Data Processing and Firewall functions by utilizing the superior power of the human brain to more effectively, efficiently, and rapidly respond to the demands of Matrix protocols and encryption methods. This is what allows a decker to take Matrix Edge actions, just like a technomancer. The cyberjack is built on research of technomancer brains and is a beefed up datajack. Like a datajack, it allows for DNI but is also not a commlink-like device. That a commlink also has (inferior) Data Processing and Firewall functions doesn’t matter. Normal Matrix user utilize a commlink to access the legal functions of the Matrix. The cyberdeck can perform those same legal functions, in addition to also allowing for illegal hacking actions. You can utilize a commlink with a cyberdeck to hack the Matrix but to be actually good at it requires a cyberjack. The three devices all share certain traits but they each serve different functions and purposes and should not be seen as interchangeable.
Well said
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Thank you Plan_B, I understand what cyberjacks are but it’s helpful to have a good explanation of them. I want to let you all know that I had the same question as the OP when I read the chapter, as did the decker at my table, as have other other people looking for help online, even those not new to SR. I had to read it twice and then talk the whole thing out with a friend for us to understand it. I wasn’t the only one who looked at cyberdecks and jacks and saw two halves of a whole, where the jack could be replaced with a commlink for lower power games. D/F are the attributes associated with a computer system, the cyber deck doesn’t have them, ergo, cyberdecks are simply the most badass dongle for a commlink ever.
Like I said, I grok what it actually is, I just don’t think the book reads that way because of the cyberdeck stat line and I don’t blame the people that don’t get it.
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Well as I've said many times in several places ... a cyberjack is by no means necessary and you can use a commlink +deck just fine ... but you probably won't want to if hacking is your primary role and you all you can get out if it. 😉
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Like I said, I grok what it actually is, I just don’t think the book reads that way because of the cyberdeck stat line and I don’t blame the people that don’t get it.
If I were feeling generous, I would say that I can vaguely see how the distribution of information might be difficult for someone to follow but I didn't particularly find it very difficult. As for how it all works, I like the distribution now over previous versions. Admittedly, it did take me a moment to adjust my own expectations when I saw that the cyberdeck was now exclusively a wireless capable attack device with the off-loaded functions. For me, and I think this was also Banhee's goal, this is an increase in player options. If you want to be a hacker, you can be with minimal investment. While this might not be ideal, it certainly works for runners at the very start of their careers rather than those created at the default level.
In terms of mechanics, and this is solely a matter of person preference, I like the idea that the investment required to be a top notch decker is not just cash. The Essence cost of the cyberjack works as a limit regarding other enhancements the decker can get. My adding this limit, it keeps the decker more function focused and reduces the capacity for one high end character to "do it all" in terms of being a hacker, a combat monster, and a smooth operator. Maybe you don't dig this limitation, and that's cool too, I just really like the idea that a serious decker now has to put their body into their job, just like everyone else. They aren't just paying cash for their function, they are paying with their own body and humanity. This is very much in keeping with the theme of everything having a cost that is inherent to the game.
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Like I said, I grok what it actually is, I just don’t think the book reads that way because of the cyberdeck stat line and I don’t blame the people that don’t get it.
If I were feeling generous, I would say that I can vaguely see how the distribution of information might be difficult for someone to follow but I didn't particularly find it very difficult. As for how it all works, I like the distribution now over previous versions. Admittedly, it did take me a moment to adjust my own expectations when I saw that the cyberdeck was now exclusively a wireless capable attack device with the off-loaded functions. For me, and I think this was also Banhee's goal, this is an increase in player options. If you want to be a hacker, you can be with minimal investment. While this might not be ideal, it certainly works for runners at the very start of their careers rather than those created at the default level.
In terms of mechanics, and this is solely a matter of person preference, I like the idea that the investment required to be a top notch decker is not just cash. The Essence cost of the cyberjack works as a limit regarding other enhancements the decker can get. My adding this limit, it keeps the decker more function focused and reduces the capacity for one high end character to "do it all" in terms of being a hacker, a combat monster, and a smooth operator. Maybe you don't dig this limitation, and that's cool too, I just really like the idea that a serious decker now has to put their body into their job, just like everyone else. They aren't just paying cash for their function, they are paying with their own body and humanity. This is very much in keeping with the theme of everything having a cost that is inherent to the game.
You seem to be in my head on this topic 😉
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You seem to be in my head on this topic
You just made my day! ;D
Also, you forgot to turn wireless off.
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If I understand the essence loss correctly, a newly created decker should buy the most expensive deltaware cyberlink they can afford. Even at the cost of not having a deck. Then run the first few missions as just a tech. Because you cannot regain missing essence.
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You can put other enhancements in the gap though. Spend 3 Ess then upgrade so it only takes 2.5? You have a gap of 0.5 available for things. Get 0.6 after, now you're at 2.9.
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I'd be tempted to go Used rather than Delta. Get the sweet sweet performance on the cheap, and if necessary upgrade to better grades as you go along... thereby opening up some essence holes you can fill with even more chrome.
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Cyberjack VI has Avail 6, so no higher than Standard possible. (At char gen obviously...)
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Cyberjack VI has Avail 6, so no higher than Standard possible. (At char gen obviously...)
I would need to check, as my book isn’t at hand right now, but I don’t believe the cyberjack is listed as Illegal, so the Availability rating limitation would not apply. If, however, it is illegal, then yeah, it’s restricted.
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I start to understand what people complain about with these rules, you are right only illegal gear. That opens so many loopholes its insane ...
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Well as I've said many times in several places ... a cyberjack is by no means necessary and you can use a commlink +deck just fine ... but you probably won't want to if hacking is your primary role and you all you can get out if it. 😉
Wait, you can combine a Commlink and a Cyberdeck together to form a Persona?
Because Xenon posted that you can't (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=30178.msg526186#msg526186)...
And you agreed with him/her in the very next post (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=30178.msg526187#msg526187).
This is why people are perpetually confused.
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I start to understand what people complain about with these rules, you are right only illegal gear. That opens so many loopholes its insane ...
I don't really see this as a "loophole." There are still going to be limiting factors, such as available Resources to spend on gear. That said, if someone wants to blow all their cash on one really big ticket item, that's their option. It's going to hurt them in other areas pretty fast.
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I start to understand what people complain about with these rules, you are right only illegal gear. That opens so many loopholes its insane ...
I don't really see this as a "loophole." There are still going to be limiting factors, such as available Resources to spend on gear. That said, if someone wants to blow all their cash on one really big ticket item, that's their option. It's going to hurt them in other areas pretty fast.
I recently learned (see the other thread thats up...) that the Hard Cap for Avail is 9. If that werent that case i would instantly find many loopholes (drain focus, Spirit focus, autosoft for example) but with a limit of 9 its ok
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Well as I've said many times in several places ... a cyberjack is by no means necessary and you can use a commlink +deck just fine ... but you probably won't want to if hacking is your primary role and you all you can get out if it. 😉
Wait, you can combine a Commlink and a Cyberdeck together to form a Persona?
Because Xenon posted that you can't (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=30178.msg526186#msg526186)...
And you agreed with him/her in the very next post (https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=30178.msg526187#msg526187).
This is why people are perpetually confused.
We (or at least I) was talking about combined cyberdeck and RCC's .. which is a no go in my book (powers that be have different opinions)
If you go purely off what intended and not necessarily off what is published ... then the only viable options for actual hacking are cyberjack+cyberdeck and commlink+cyberdeck. You can't hack with a RCC but you can combine a RCC with a cyberjack but it doesn't gain you much benefit considering the investment, and there is no need or benefit to combining a RCC with a commlink
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We (or at least I) was talking about combined cyberdeck and RCC's .. which is a no go in my book (powers that be have different opinions)
I get that, and respect it (even though I disagree with it, personally).
The problem is that the very first sentence of Xenon's linked post was (paraphrased and reformatted):
You can only use one of the following:
And then followed up in the second sentence that you can't use two of them at the same time.
When you agreed to Xenon's post, you didn't qualify that concept out.
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Hang on, the new cyberdecks are worn on your wrist, and project a holographic keyboard? Good thing you'll most likely be using it with DNI, since one-handed typing isn't the quickest way to issue instructions during initiative...
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Hang on, the new cyberdecks are worn on your wrist, and project a holographic keyboard? Good thing you'll most likely be using it with DNI, since one-handed typing isn't the quickest way to issue instructions during initiative...
Project holographic keyboard in front of both your hands? AR keyboard? There's a lot of ways to use both hands.
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Thought-to-Text transcribing apps are surely mastered technology by the 2080s. Probably by the 2050s, even. So mundane by Sixth World standards their functionality is presumed on DNI hardware.
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Wait, you can combine a Commlink and a Cyberdeck together to form a Persona?
There might be a difference between actively using more than one of them at the same time or simply having them connected to your network and having your network passively taking advantage of their matrix attributes.
Using is the operative word here.
If you are currently using a cyberdeck then you may for example take illegal matrix actions but you may not send the same instruction to several slaved drones.
If you instead are current using a RCC then you may send the same instruction to several slaved drones but you may not take illegal matrix actions.
Even if you own both.
At least this is what I was talking about when I made the post (and I think perhaps this is what Banshee also replied to).
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There might be a difference between actively using more than one of them at the same time or simply having them connected to your network and having your network passively taking advantage of their matrix attributes.
There might be.
Then there might not be.
The Core Book doesn't have anything in it about creating a Persona in it, and it sure doesn't even mention anything about being able to use more than one device at a time. (Not even to determine your Matrix Attributes.)
If you’re a decker, your Matrix attributes are determined by the device you’re using to access the Matrix.
Emphasis mine.
Now, I'm not arguing the point, as I'm aware of what Banshee's intentions are.
My point is that if there is any restriction on the number of devices you can be "logged into" at a time, and whether or not you have to be logged in to benefit from the device(s) isn't clear.
Everything people think is true about those rules is carried over from previous editions only.
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We all remember there’s a use example in the book with Slamm-o! And his son where they go over attribute swapping and the son is using a deck + commlink for his attributes right? No one forgot that?
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Precisely.
Both of them are connected to his network so for A/S ratings he may switch between 4/3 and 3/4. For his D/F ratings he may switch between 3/1 and 1/3.
But while he is actively using his cyberdeck then he can only use illegal matrix actions offered by his cyberdeck. If he instead wish to send the same command to multiple drones as one action (a feature only offered by RCCs) then he need to actively use a RCC rather than a cyberdeck. He can't both take illegal matrix actions and send the same command to multiple drones as one action. He need to choose if he is using a cyberdeck, commlink or RCC (or in case of techhomancers; living persona). He can't actively use more than one of them at any given time.