Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: DigitalZombie on <10-16-19/1543:17>
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Mystic adepts have one foot in the magicians World and one foot in the adepts World.
But how does their magic allocation Work?
Say we have a mystic adept with magic 4 ( lets presume he chose magic A, and didnt use any Adjustment points in magic)
Lets say he has allocated 2 og his magic score to the adept side, and 2 magic points to his magicians side (page 158).
Now lets say he wanted to throw a fireball at some ghouls. Whats his Dice pool? Sorcery 5 + full magic score og 4 or "magicians" score of 2?
And whats the dmg of his fireball ? 4/2 = 2 dmg or 2/1 = 1 dmg?
Likewise if he was going to use his Attribute boost adept power. Would he be Rolling rating 1 + 4 or 2 magic?
And a follow question: what if he survives the ghouls and decides to upgrade hos magic score?
Page 158 Linda makes og sounds like he had 2 different magic scores.
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The allocation is just used for the free spells and to calculate how many power points she is allowed to buy during chargen. It have nothing to do with your actual magic rating and it have also no impact after chargen.
Whats his Dice pool? Sorcery 5 + full magic score og 4 or "magicians" score of 2?
Sorcery of 5 + Current Magic Rating of 4
And whats the dmg of his fireball ? 4/2 = 2 dmg or 2/1 = 1 dmg?
Current Magic Rating of 4 / 2 (round up) + Net Hits
And a follow question: what if he survives the ghouls and decides to upgrade hos magic score?
It will cost 5*5=25 karma to increase his Current Magic Rating from 4 to 5
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Yep. TL;DR is the split doesn't exist after chargen is complete.
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Hmm ok thanks, thats what I thought.
Seems like MAs are pretty strong again, especially when comparing them to the current RAW adept- with their max magic of 4 stuff going on.
Dunno if I would have preferred are slight nerf to them.
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Now i have a little question.
After creation char, is adepts power closed or he can learn new powers like magic learn a new spells?
CBR p.130
New spells, rituals, or alchemical preparations can be learned by studying spell formulae or finding some mentor (either a spirit or another Awakened individual) to teach you.
The powers are not mentioned.
CRB p.156
Power points do not need to be spent when they are obtained; characters can hold on to them and use them when ready.
If yes, what magic he can use? Can adept learn new powers up to whole magic rating?
Example: I found friendly monk in a nearby monastery and he will teach me Killing Hand his secret technique.
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You use Power Points to gain Powers. If you don't have Power Points, you can't get the Powers. A Mystic Adept can only obtain Power Points by picking them as 'metamagic' when Initiating.
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So, after creation split doesnt exist, but power points what i get in creation are allway count. And when i have enough power points i can learn new powers.
Next power point i can get are only after Initiatization and with Metamagic CRB p.168 "Power Point (Adepts Only)
If you’re an adept, you can gain a Power Point instead of a metamagic. You can take this as many times as you like".
Right?
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Yeah, that one applies to Mystic Adepts and Adepts. Adepts also get PP from Magic increases, but Mystics do not.
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Physical Adepts seem to be less dependent on magic rating which make them better suited for augmentations compared to mystic Adepts. Power points during chargen are based upon unadjusted magic rating from magic or resonance, not magic rating adjusted because you increased it with adjustment points or karma, but also not adjusted because your magic rating was reduced due to loss of essence as a result of augmentations.
Physical Adepts, but not mystic Adepts, also gain a free power point whenever their magic rating is increased post chargen, but it does not seem as if they lose power points if their magic goes down due to fire example augmentations.
Physical Adepts use power points and augmentations
Mystic Adepts use power points and magic
As for ways of earning power points post chargen. In addition to raise magic for a cost of new rating x 5 karma (only non-mystic Adepts) and by picking power point as your metamagic during initiation which cost 10 + new initiation grade karma, Adepts may also bind Qi focus for a cost of 8 karma per power point.
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Physical Adepts use power points and augmentations
Mystic Adepts use power points and magic
We shall see, I have a strong feeling that physical adepts will get an errata, and function like they did in earlier editions.
I just wish they used the various terms more consistenly, instead of just adepts.
(The term Physical adept is used once in the book I think, under street samurai, otherwise its dedicated adept or just adept- which sometimes includes mystic adepts, other times not).
For instance adept power section states that whenever adepts gain a point of magic they also gain a power point. It doesnt say MA are excluded ( for the record I "know" they are excluded).
The same section says adepts sometimes must resist drain, with body willpower. But fails to mention its only for adept powers, mystic adepts should still resist their fireballs with tradition+ willpower. ( ok, I think most would read it that way anyhoo, but still).
Lastly the initiation section has a couple of (adepts only) stuff. But we all *know* that this time its including MA. Even though the text reads the same as the powerpoint and magic points.
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I started using "non-mystic adepts" and "mystic adepts" awhile back.
I will try to use it more often (since we also have physical adepts, social adepts, etc).
Having said that, I think SR6 is a lot better at consistently using the same phrase and term when they mean the same thing. In SR5 it was more rule and anything else to not use the same phrase or term when describing the same thing.
Actually.........!
This edition seem to be quite consistent at using the word Mystical Adept when they talk about Mystical Adept. When they are not talking about Mystical Adept they are using the word Adept.
There are many places where something will apply to both Mystical Adept and Adept but in most of them (all of them?) they actually mention that the rule applies to both Adepts and Mystical Adepts.
If you take a strict reading as Adept mean non-mystic adept rather than both [Physical] Adept and Mystical Adept the rules actually seem to stay consistent.
There are two places where this might or might not be intended though.
First we have Qi Focus. The book says it is only for Adepts. Not Adepts and Mystic Adepts. Maybe it is actually intended that Mystic Adepts does not have access to Qi focus?
Second we have Power Point Metamagic. The book says it is only for Adepts. Not Adepts and Mystic Adepts. Maybe it is actually intended that Mystic Adepts does not have access to Power Point Metamagic?
That would severely limit the number of power points a mystic adept can get (max four and all four of them are during chargen) but it would also put a big limiting factor on their power curve.
Compared to a full Magician they are trading 1-4 power points for the ability to use astral projection and having to waste one of the few power points if they wish to get astral perception.
Compared to a non-mystic Adept they are limiting them self to only 1-4 power points (all during chargen) but instead they have the option to cast spells and summon spirits.
Huh.... This is actually quite interesting... :D
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I know that Adepts will get more attention later but I am still wondering why there would be a "deaf power point" space for Mystic Adepts when raising Magic attribute. A mystic adept has max 4 Magic rating out of Priority table and does not gain a power point from raising magic rating up till 6 (as the current consensus seems to be, cuz they would be too powerful ?)
So or a Mystic adept has to sacrifice 25 + 30 + 11 Karma (form rating 4 to rating 5 and to rating 6 and initiation ) in order to get to a space where the character can actually gain more adept powers, or spend 2 SAP to get to 6 straight from chargen and than 11 karma to initiate in game. That makes an obvious choice for only one way to build the character. Other side of the spectrum would be: Chargen with Magic rating D
Mage has 2 spells ( Can Astrally project and perceive)
Adept has 1 Power Point ( Can take Astral perception power for 1 power point ), each time with Magic raise get's additional PP
Mystic adept has 1 Spell and 0.5 Power point. ( Can not take Astral perception, thus can not take Astral skill ) and does not get a PP if raises magic rating (until initiation)
Seems to make sense only for Mage and Adept, Mystic adept should not build this way, and that seems to me like a railroad towards metagame.
Mage could safely go for choosing Magic D and boosting Magic rating to 6 straight from chargen "loosing" 30 karma worth of spells. Still having A in attributes and B in skills.
Adept needs to stick to the table and make calculated choices for meta-type (due to adjustment points which can be applied to racial attributes or edge) and power choice (boosting lacking attributes or skills), in order to gain good value, as boosting Magic rating with SAP are a loss of value.
Mystic Adept needs to stick to the table and make even harder, more narrowed down choices in meta-type, power and skill choice and is generally pushed towards single way of building (4+2 in Magic straight from chargen), as other ways would mean loss of value.
All that calculation and meticulous planning because "Adept" is not "Mystic Adept", and thus rules about power point gain do apply for one but not for the other? That doesn't seem like streamline.
The longer I am thinking about this, the longer I feel that when rules refer to Adepts, they mean both, just as when Adept powers are including Mystic adepts.
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From everything we've seen in CRB and errata, it is very intended that Mystic Adepts do not get free PP from Magic. That Adepts and Mystic Adepts are different in some sections, is intended. And that MAs cannot get PP from Magic gain isn't anything news either. So no, Mystic Adepts shouldn't get PP from Magic increases. They're nerfed down with good reason.
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I get it and I promise that I will not make you answer the same drek all over again. ( I guess I have bad news for my Mystic adept player, and perhaps good news for the integrity of the campaign :) )
Thanks for the clarification!
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just as when Adept powers are including Mystic adepts.
Not just as since book explicitly call out that mystic adepts use "adept powers" (both p. 66 and p. 158).
Same as it specifically call out how unadjusted magic during chargen affect adepts and how unadjusted magic during chargen affect mystic adepts, how mentor spirit affect adepts and how they affect mystic adepts, that mystic adepts seem to be listed under arcane specialists together with full and aspected magicians while adepts instead seem to be listed under face (social adept) and street samurai (combat adept), both adept and mystic adept is listed on the priority table, both adepts and mystic adepts can buy astral perception with power points, both adept and mystic adept can potentially use assenssing, etc.
In fact, the following seem to be the only sections in the entire book where mystic adept is not mentioned together with adept which might or might not mean that this list only apply non-mystic adepts:
- "Qi (pronounced “chee”) foci only work for adepts". If the intent is that it also work for mystic adepts then maybe it should say "...only work for adepts and mystic adepts"
- "Adepts sometimes have to resist drain, which they do with Body + Willpower". This might or might not mean that mystic adepts instead follow the tradition based general blanket rule of "The dice rolls used to resist drain vary based on the Awakened individual’s tradition"
- "Adept Centering (Adepts Only)" as well as "Power Point (Adepts Only)" - if the intent is that mystic adepts can also pick them then maybe they should be listed "(Adepts or Mystic Adepts Only)"
So or a Mystic adept has to sacrifice 25 + 30 + 11 Karma (form rating 4 to rating 5 and to rating 6 and initiation ) in order to get to a space where the character can actually gain more adept powers
Not sure I follow here....
Are you saying that a mystic adept is not allowed to initiate unless his or her magic rating is 6...?
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Are you saying that a mystic adept is not allowed to initiate unless his or her magic rating is 6...?
Till this moment I was for some reason understanding it that way, but as it seems now, I am wrong from the get go. Thanks!
I finally, finally, finally understand it, even though we had a conversation about this already in a previous thread, I couldn't get the underlying mechanic of why Mystic Adept has a 2 point "deaf" space between Max Priority table and Max Attribute level. Now I can see the trade-off and the way to build more Adept focused character with a bit of magic and a Magic focused character with a bit of Adept. I could not see this before as it was elusive to me.
On one hand I feel like an idiot, on second, If I wouldn't ask and be a newb nuisance, I would have a hard time grasping it.
Nice :)
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Side question: if a mystic adept chooses a mentor spirit do they get all three bonuses (All, Magician, Adept)?
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Side question: if a mystic adept chooses a mentor spirit do they get all three bonuses (All, Magician, Adept)?
No.
SR6 p. 162 Mentor Spirit Archetypes
Mystic adepts must choose either the adept or magician advantage at the time they accept the mentor spirit, and that choice cannot be changed.