Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: penllawen on <02-07-20/0932:11>
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pg 247 CRB 6e
It’s harder for trolls, and they experience a ten percent markup on everything. Even AR setting have to be adjusted to fit trolls’ thick fingers, and every piece of gear needs some kind of adjustment for their size, strength, and dermal deposits.
(Emphasis mine)
That makes no sense to me at all. Does anyone else think this makes sense?
A R1 cyberdeck, modified for a troll, costs 2500 nuyen more. OK, I can maybe see that; make it a bit bigger, ruggedise the case. Especially as cyberdecks are things you wear now, maybe. Although what if it's an implanted cyberdeck with just an AR interface? Why does it cost money to make an AR interface larger? And also, by and large, don't electronics get cheaper when you make them bigger? It's usually miniaturisation that's expensive, not going the other way. If cyberdecks got cheaper when you made them smaller, every decker would have one the size of wedding ring, and they'd be both less expensive and easier to hide.
But a R6 cyberdeck - that's gonna cost a troll 40k extra. So: what extra troll adaptation happened to the R6 'deck that didn't happen to the R1 'deck? And why and how did that adaption cost four times the cost of a compact car?
Let's talk foci! "The physical form of a focus varies—bracelets, amulets, belts, wands, walking sticks, staves, cups, bottle caps, daggers, hats, hip flasks, pens, and so on and so forth — although most of the time a focus reflects the tradition of its maker." A rating 6 power focus is 108k for a human and 119k for a troll. What has changed about that focus that made it cost 19k more? Why has that change cost 19k, when the same adaptation for a R1 power focus cost only 3k? It does not cost twice the price of a Jackrabbit to make a walking stick or hip flask troll-sized instead of human sized. Does it? Surely the cost of a focus is in the magic power, and surely the magic power isn't any different in a focus for a troll.
I can go on! Fake SINs... do fake SINs cost 10% more? Why? How about a gun licence to put on that SIN?
How about programs for that cyberdeck? Do they need troll adaptation too? How about a knowsoft? Troll adaptation on those is 250 nuyen - what changes about the knowsoft for that? Do spell formulae get more expensive for trolls? How about reagents? Are troll grenades more expensive? Does that mean they're bigger? If they're bigger, why don't they do more damage? Do trolls pay more for RFID tags?
What about a slap patch? Do trolls pay more for slap patches? Does that mean they have a bigger dose or something? So what happens if you put a troll slap patch on a human? Or vice versa?
How far down this rabbit hole shall we go? Do bullets cost more for trolls?
"It’s harder for trolls, and they experience a ten percent markup on everything."
...I guess they do.
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Yeah thats one of those weird things that have went back and forth over the years. It just doesn't make "realistic" that it cost more for everything but it's better than spending more pages on clarifying what does or doesn't.
Personally in my home games I only apply it to lifestyle cost but I also don't allow anything below low lifestyle.
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It just doesn't make "realistic" that it cost more for everything but it's better than spending more pages on clarifying what does or doesn't.
Except the book has already done exactly that, for dwarves, on pg246:
To account for this, dwarfs pay a ten percent markup on all the fitted gear they purchase. This applies to items like armor and clothes, but not stuff like weapons and commlinks. When in doubt, the gamemaster makes the call of when to apply it.
Personally in my home games I only apply it to lifestyle cost but I also don't allow anything below low lifestyle.
I think 5e's "double your lifestyle cost and forget about the rest" approach was perfectly reasonable, myself.
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On this penllawen, I agree with you.
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It just doesn't make "realistic" that it cost more for everything but it's better than spending more pages on clarifying what does or doesn't.
Except the book has already done exactly that, for dwarves, on pg246:
To account for this, dwarfs pay a ten percent markup on all the fitted gear they purchase. This applies to items like armor and clothes, but not stuff like weapons and commlinks. When in doubt, the gamemaster makes the call of when to apply it.
Personally in my home games I only apply it to lifestyle cost but I also don't allow anything below low lifestyle.
I think 5e's "double your lifestyle cost and forget about the rest" approach was perfectly reasonable, myself.
Honestly I don't see that as much of a clarification for dwarves even ... it just establishes some rough guidelines and then says GM discretion. Apply the same to Trolls.
EDIT: but yeah I agree lifestyle cost increases is more elegant and effective
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Honestly I don't see that as much of a clarification for dwarves even ... it just establishes some rough guidelines and then says GM discretion. Apply the same to Trolls.
I think it's enough to go on for dwarves, as even a novice GM I think I'd feel comfortable with that much guidance. And absolutely, applying something similar to trolls seems like a very reasonable answer. Which is why this stuck out for me (I only just noticed it) - because the book goes out of its way to not apply this to trolls, but explicitly says "everything." Which quite quickly breaks down once you start considering gear beyond guns and armour.
Weird little decision, that.
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Yeah thats one of those weird things that have went back and forth over the years. It just doesn't make "realistic" that it cost more for everything but it's better than spending more pages on clarifying what does or doesn't.
Personally in my home games I only apply it to lifestyle cost but I also don't allow anything below low lifestyle.
'If it involves a handle and you have to be able to use your fingers to control it, or fit your body into it, I'll apply the 10%' is how I do it. So most relevant commlinks, weapons and armor, but not ware, cars or credsticks. Lifestyle increase is simpler though.
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Yeah thats one of those weird things that have went back and forth over the years. It just doesn't make "realistic" that it cost more for everything but it's better than spending more pages on clarifying what does or doesn't.
Personally in my home games I only apply it to lifestyle cost but I also don't allow anything below low lifestyle.
'If it involves a handle and you have to be able to use your fingers to control it, or fit your body into it, I'll apply the 10%' is how I do it. So most relevant commlinks, weapons and armor, but not ware, cars or credsticks. Lifestyle increase is simpler though.
Yeah. Lots of things don't make sense that they need to be ruggedized for "troll use". Does it matter for a drone if it's owned by a troll or a human? The owner doesn't sit in it. Doesn't need handles for it (that's the RCC). And there's the world of non-physical possessions like SINs, Licences, Programs/Autosofts, etc.
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penllawen,
Why do I get the feeling that you are trying to make this into something that is about 6th edition ;-)
Trolls paying more have been in Shadowrun since... basically forever.
In 3rd edition the drawback was 25% higher cost on all items that had to be customized. Driving a car that was not customized for trolls, would for example add +3 modifier to all driving tests.
In 6th edition trolls are mechanically stronger than other metatypes.
If it helps you can simply look at this as a balancing factor.
Without it there is, for example, very few mechanical reasons to ever play an Orc over a Troll.
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Without it there is, for example, very few mechanical reasons to ever play an Orc over a Troll.
In fairness I would argue that is still the case even with increased cost mechanic. Orcs are just strictly less good trolls, mechanically speaking. The only time I can see one being of value is if your build calls for higher than human body rating without sacrificing a single point of agility for hitting.
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Apply it to everything the troll has to physically use or consume.
Weapons, clothing, drugs, cars, etc.
Comlinks are a border case. You can use them physically but most don't so I would ignore it.
Cyberware, depends. A troll getting a cyberarm certainly costs more. A Math processor not.
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Mechanics and balance aside, it’s thematic. It’s the “troll tax.” Orks are the only other (core) metatype that really experiences the Sixth World the way trolls do. That is to say, the way oppressed minorities experience our world but turned up a notch or two.
It comes down to this: Humans are still the most common species out there. By and large, trogs (be they troll or ork) scare most humans. Yes, human bigotry is rampant in the Sixth World (just look at all the racist epithets that exist for non-human metatypes). The “troll tax” is part of the world. That it was dropped for orks was a thing I disagreed with (and in my games, there’s a 5% increased cost for being an ork). The increased cost isn’t just reflective of human bigotry in direct commerce either. It reflects that goods are just costlier to get in trog neighborhoods because of systemic abuses that trogs face.
And before you think I’m making it harder for my trog players for no reason, you should know I only play trogs. Never, ever, for any reason would I play some dandelion eating knife-ear!
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Just chalk it up to general racism! Ok, so that link may not have cost more but the car did, and the endless police bribes (walking while tusked) just to get across town, voila, it balances out to a +10% to everything...
Lol, Plan-B said it better ::)
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An increased cost is thematic, and if it's not over the top it's not even a game balance problem.
Once you have to start paying more for EVERYTHING, Troll deckers/riggers/sammies start to have a real balance problem vs non troll characters. And vs troll magicians, or other archetypes that are not nuyen-dependent.
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10% is not over the top.
I am with Lormyr on this one.
Even with the troll tax, trolls are still almost always mechanically better than both orcs and humans.
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10% is not over the top.
I am with Lormyr on this one.
Even with the troll tax, trolls are still almost always mechanically better than both orcs and humans.
It's all a matter of perspective/opinion.
Nuyen, for certain archetypes, is more important than karma for character advancement. For argument's sake, would it also be appropriate for a given metatype to pay 10% more on karma expenditures? It'd hit magicians the way +10% gear cost hits deckers/riggers/sammies.
Is a 10% tax on your character advancement over the top? Opinion. Is it balanced that when you make a troll, you give yourself a 10% handicap if you play certain archetypes vs other archetypes? Objectively, factually, no. Considering a hacker? Troll Decker has a 10% advancement penalty, Troll Technomancer doesn't. A fighter? Troll Sammie has a 10% advancement penalty. Troll Adept doesn't.
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Even with the troll tax, troll deckers have never been in such a good spot as they are in this edition (metatype maximum logic and intuition are both at 6 for the first time in history). Metatype maximum intuition of 5 and logic of 4 was a lot more "over the top" if you planned on playing a troll decker in 5th edition than the +10% tax for playing a troll decker in 6th edition...
Troll samurai is also in a really good spot in this edition. The troll tax is basically the only reason why you would pick a human or orc samurai over a troll samurai, but even with the tax the troll samurai seem to come out on-top in most situations anyway.
But if you (for some reason) think troll is too weak compared to other metatypes in this edition (I don't) you can for example house rule the troll tax to only apply to selected items.
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"I can only imagine OP builds" hardly sounds like a good reason to make ware cost extra for Trolls. Essentially you're saying 'play it optimal or you're paying for nothing'. I'm anti-Humanis so I'm sticking to only applying the tax where it makes sense. In- universe racism is no excuse either. Racism isn't why the Troll pays extra, the rules explicitly state the actual reason.
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If you consider to house rule that troll tax only apply to selected items (like it did before 5th edition) then perhaps you should also consider compensating this weaker disadvantage by house ruling an advantage to other races. For example a house rule that grant humans +5 (or even +10) karma as compensation for not getting as many free racial qualities as trolls.
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Well, when you double the size of something, you increase the mass by a factor of 8....
So that troll cyber arm took 8 TIMES the material of an arm for a human...
As a biological engine, that troll technically needs 8 TIMES the caloric intake of a human....
Pair of pants???? MOAR PANTS!!!
10% more sounds like a deal!
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Honestly, +100% lifestyle costs seems easier then.
Also, technically a lot of that cyberarm is wires and surface area, and trolls aren't x2 but x1.5, so it's not really 8x as much. Besides, we don't give dwarves and pixies a discount, so clearly size isn't the problem, most of it still is the actual work. Materials are usually cheap, labour and markup are where the money is. Just like how even 3XL shirts usually only cost a buck or so more than the S shirts. The main reason why Trolls would pay extra, is simply because some things are balanced around a certain finesse and anyone lacking that, by really thick fingers and dermal deposits or otherwise, ends up needing adjustments which are more rare thus cost more.
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Honestly, +100% lifestyle costs seems easier then.
Besides, we don't give dwarves and pixies a discount
Well, for one, Dwarfs are actually not that much different then humans.... Their proportions (for the most part) are within human ranges, that modifying clothing is not as big a deal.... (shirts are not an issue as the base trunk size of a dwarf is similar to a human. Waist size is within human range, leg length is way off... which would require a removal of material... and skill to do so... But enough to off increase costs as a game mechanic?
Equipment for a dwarf, wouldn't need much change as well, since they are again, close to human proportions... yes they need a booster seat to see over a window and petal extensions to drive.... (or just a Rigger module).
AS to Pixies.... well these little abominations just need to be thrown into the fires of "NPC ONLY".... These little bastards cause so many problems simply because there is such a disconnect between their size and the real world that they AUTOMATICALLY create headaches for people with even a sliver of common sense.... (I refer you to EVERY. SINGLE. PIXIE. WITH. GUN. POST.)
These little fuckers create such issue I did a post with a Pixie sized cut out, and REAL guns to show just absurd thinking a pixie could use a gun really is..... and people STILL tried to argue that they could.
They are not human, and since they vanish after death, the argument can be made that there is NO cyberware developed that would work on them (neurological interfaces for a metahuman brain may not work with a Pixie's neurological make-up... they ARE innate magical beings with extra natural appendages, that alone means their brain functions are different from a metahuman.) but that doesn't stop people from trying to cyber out the little fuckers AGAIN!!
(not to mention explain how and why a Mega Corp would go through the trouble of capturing and vivisecting pixies for the end result of being able to sell them cyberware... to a species that technically can not pay for said cyberware... (Pixies are only recognized as Sapient by France Remember?)...
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Well, there's something that me or my GM didn't notice... :o I really, really wish this was listed under the rules for trolls instead of buried in the Gear section. >:(
Does this even apply to stuff like Fake SINs or ammo?
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Does this even apply to stuff like Fake SINs or ammo?
By RAW? Yes. By even the tiniest amount of common sense? I would argue not.
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Does this even apply to stuff like Fake SINs or ammo?
By RAW? Yes. By even the tiniest amount of common sense? I would argue not.
Yeah, that doesn't really make any sense. Although, I could totally see the corps putting out Ammo for Trolls(TM), which ends up being normal ammo sold at a higher price...
I mean if we go by RAW, then Trolls have to pay +10% for their soy tacos from Stuffer Shack ::) and that's getting a little ridiculous.
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Does this even apply to stuff like Fake SINs or ammo?
By RAW? Yes. By even the tiniest amount of common sense? I would argue not.
Yeah, that doesn't really make any sense. Although, I could totally see the corps putting out Ammo for Trolls(TM), which ends up being normal ammo sold at a higher price...
I mean if we go by RAW, then Trolls have to pay +10% for their soy tacos from Stuffer Shack ::) and that's getting a little ridiculous.
Well, troll-sized soy tacos sound like a totally appropriate thing. I can even see an argument for medical gear like cyberware and Doc Wagon contracts costing more due to the trolls' extreme deviance from "human norms". But yeah when you get into purely digital goods like programs and SINs, any that doesn't continue to be true. Nor for things that the troll doesn't *directly* handle. Like ammo.. a pistol shoots ammo sized for the pistol, whether it's fired by a troll or a human. The drone doesn't care, nor should the rules mechanics care, if it's owned by a troll or a human. Honestly, does it make any sense to apply the "unadapted gear" penalty TO drones?
And in that rhetorical question, that probably provides a good "common sense" house rule for troll gear: only things that you'd plausibly apply the unadapted gear penalty TO requires the +10% price increase.
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I mean if we go by RAW, then Trolls have to pay +10% for their soy tacos from Stuffer Shack
Trolls had higher upkeep in every edition of Shadowrun I can remember. Nothing strange about this.
That trolls pay more on their monthly tacos account is also not really strange (or "ridiculous").
The argument here is basically if you think it is too abstract to just apply a straight +10% to everything like they did in this edition. There will of course be edge cases where this is disconnected from reality. But there will also be cases where you will end up paying less compared to other systems. Simple and fast. Less detailed and in some cases less 'realistic'. This is a design decision that was made when they created this edition.
Another system (that they used in 3rd edition) was to apply a +25% tax (instead of +10%) but only on selected items. Such as vehicles, armor, cloths and other items that need to be customized to fit / not break when a troll use them. This is probably the most 'realistic' system. But it also require most 'bookkeeping' (and it also kinda suck to be a vehicle rigger if all your vehicles cost 25% more or you get a penalty when trying to drive it).
A third system (that they used in 5th edition) was to abstract it into a double lifestyle cost (which will also cover tacos from stuffer shack). Drawback of this is of course that if you have a very cheap lifestyle you don't really pay anything extra at all for eating double portions or having all your vehicles and cloths etc modified.
Personally I think its easier and faster to just apply a 10% increase on everything or simply double your lifestyle, but if it is realism you are after you should probably modify prices of selected items on an item to item basis like we used to do in earlier editions.
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if it is realism you are after
If it is "realism" you're after, why are you playing Shadowrun? Let's cut the "realism" drek for a second and just take a look at the game and setting we are talking about. Non-human species. Magic. Critters from other dimensions that want to put their eggs in you. Computer magic. The list goes on and on. Shadowrun is not "realistic." Being "realistic" is a waste of time with the game. The entire setting is bonkers beyond belief. Trolls are powerful and scary. Humans are often racist. Life sucks for most trolls in most places. That is partly expressed as a not unreasonable 10% "troll tax." Just pay it and be done with it. If you don't like it, don't use it. The fun police aren't going to kick your door in and take your books away for not running the game RAW. This is a stupid argument to be having, especially about "realism."
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I disagree with the claim that racism is why a troll pays 10% extra on things where it doesn't make sense. Plus the book says why there's extra costs, which is why I disagree with it always applying. Introducing racism as extra reason is moving the goal posts.
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If it is "realism" you're after, why are you playing Shadowrun? Let's cut the "realism" drek for a second and just take a look at the game and setting we are talking about. Non-human species. Magic. Critters from other dimensions that want to put their eggs in you. Computer magic. The list goes on and on. Shadowrun is not "realistic." Being "realistic" is a waste of time with the game. The entire setting is bonkers beyond belief. Trolls are powerful and scary. Humans are often racist. Life sucks for most trolls in most places. That is partly expressed as a not unreasonable 10% "troll tax." Just pay it and be done with it. If you don't like it, don't use it. The fun police aren't going to kick your door in and take your books away for not running the game RAW. This is a stupid argument to be having, especially about "realism."
"Realism" has numerous valid meanings, from realistic to our world, realistic to the setting's world, realistic to scientific expectations such as physics, and everything in between. For some people "realistic" is a key component to their enjoyment of the setting, game mechanics, or both.
For example, I could personally care less about the troll "tax", but the lack of strength "realistically" applying to melee combat drives me up the wall. There is nothing in either the setting or our real world physics that allows that to make even the slightest amount of sense.
So when you say being realistic is a waste of time I could not disagree more, depending on how you define what that means.
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If it is "realism" you're after, why are you playing Shadowrun? Let's cut the "realism" drek for a second and just take a look at the game and setting we are talking about. Non-human species. Magic. Critters from other dimensions that want to put their eggs in you. Computer magic. The list goes on and on. Shadowrun is not "realistic." Being "realistic" is a waste of time with the game.
Internal consistency and external consistency are different things. The existence of trolls and dragons is a challenge to the latter. Trolls paying +10% to buy the same ammunition their human team-mates do "because balance" is a challenge to the former. Shredding internal consistency is toxic to suspension of disbelief.
This is really basic storytelling.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Consistency
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If it is "realism" you're after, why are you playing Shadowrun?
Hahaha... :D
But seriously, please don't let us reopen that can of worms.
To some veteran Shadowrun players, trading a 'realistic' (and crunchy) rule for a higher level of abstraction (and less bookkeeping) seem to be a really touchy subject.
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Hahaha... :D
But seriously, please don't let us reopen that can of worms.
To some veteran Shadowrun players, trading a 'realistic' (and crunchy) rule for a higher level of abstraction (and less bookkeeping) seem to be a really touchy subject.
You're not wrong.
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I wonder if this "10% tax on trolls" abstraction feels wrong to some is because a) it is applied to the price side, not the income side, and b) comes with no reasoning for the abstraction. Like, if the rule were
A troll ends up spending a lot just moving about in the world. Therefore, everytime they earn Nuyen, the immediately lose 10% of that value to general troll-related discomfort and annoyance at being in a world that is just too damn small for them. This is obviously an abstraction, but we believe it simplifies bookkeeping while still showing just how hard it is for trolls.
Would that be more acceptable? That avoids the whole "why does a cyberdeck cost more for a troll question", right? It never comes up with that rule, because the tax is an income tax, not a sales tax. Mathematically it will end up in a very similar place, but in a way that might have more internal consistency (as Plan_B put it).
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At the risk of opening up an economic can of worms, income tax and consumption tax don’t even out except at the peak of the bell curve. A consumption tax actually hits new characters harder than an income tax would because the rules require a certain degree of expenditure at creation that doesn’t even remotely get equaled out for a very long time. Then, eventually you reach a point where even a flat income tax not subject to an insane amount of tax law, regulation, and loopholes becomes exceptionally more costly to a successful runner making lots of nuyen but with relatively low purchases. This, of course, doesn’t even account for the multitude of real world income factors like capital gains.
Effectively, an income tax on the back end is less detrimental to street level characters than a consumption tax is but more detrimental to a rich runner.
Real world economics getting in the way of fun. Again. Truthfully, the answer is simple: if you don’t like the rule, change it or ignore it. It provides some balance against the power of a troll character at creation but becomes less detrimental over time if wealth is accumulated. I also want to note that the power differential at the high end between a troll and any other metatype is not nearly as wide as it is at character creation, which makes the income tax ultimately for more detrimental than the consumption tax.
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Well, the end result of "less bookkeeping" is a flat 10% increase on purchases....
So really, if you are in the camp of "Less is more" and you are still complaining.. well...
AS has been pointed out, the increase costs for Trolls has been around since the beginning, it has just changed in how it was applied.. (as other have stated, 3e gave you a mirco list of exemptions.. then 4e gave you a flat lifestyle "tax"... and so on...
But, I also agree that unless you are wanting to run missions, if you don't like it, just drop the rule...
Now, is it perfect? heck no... but paying 10% for your bullets, and chips, and programs is easier than remembering you need to pay 3x more for your clothing, and 6X more for your food, and a 15% increase to vehicles, and an $0.10 per breath for the Carbon Tax....
Now, if you want to question the validity of a cost increase as a balance mechanic, you might have a good case there, given how often people just say "frag it" and don't follow it at all.
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I hate to raise a dead thread, but since my question fits in the constrains of the topic, it seemed a better idea than just making a new post.
By RAW, does this +10% apply to Lifestyle costs as well, or is it just for gear and everything else?
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By RAW, does this +10% apply to Lifestyle costs as well, or is it just for gear and everything else?
The entire section is:
Size Cost Adjustments
Most gear is built to be used by humans, or at least human-sized creatures. Elves and orks are close enough to human sizes that they can generally make this gear work for them, but it’s not as easy for dwarfs and trolls. They usually need to shop at spe- cial stores or order their gear with certain customi- zations made to it. To account for this, dwarfs pay a ten percent markup on all the fitted gear they pur- chase. This applies to items like armor and clothes, but not stuff like weapons and commlinks. When in doubt, the gamemaster makes the call of when to apply it. It’s harder for trolls, and they experience a ten percent markup on everything. Even AR setting have to be adjusted to fit trolls’ thick fingers, and every piece of gear needs some kind of adjustment for their size, strength, and dermal deposits.
It starts off specifically talking about gear, but then says "everything" later on. You could read it either way. And you could argue not applying it to lifestyle would be weird, given that trolls need more space, more food, different furniture, etc etc.
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I agree that it seems somewhat "off" that trolls/dwarves don't pay extra for lifestyle due to their extreme ergonomic needs if they pay extra for gear for that same reason.
However, I'm not inclined to agree that it looks like they "should", given the language used in this edition.
*putting rules lawyer hat on*
The basis for saying they should pay that extra bit for lifestyle is twofold: 1) it worked that way in 5e, and 2) its says they pay extra for "everything", and lifestyle counts as something encompassed by "everything".
To rebut: 1) doesn't count for anything if it's specifically contradicted in this edition, which it appears to be. It says they pay extra for gear, not for lifestyle. "But lifestyle counts as 'everything'" segues into 2) By that rationale, then they must also pay extra for karma costs, since buying skills/attributes counts as "everything", does it not? And there's zero indication of that being the case, by RAW or by RAI, elsewhere.
Ok, so "obviously" when it said everything, it meant just "everything paid for in nuyen"? Well, now we're diverging from RAW and coloring the reading with opinion, and that undermines the whole argument "by RAW it says 'everything!'" to begin with. But further than that, other things can be paid for in nuyen, too. Namely, bribes and fines. Again, there's no support anywhere else that Trolls must pay more when bribing or fined, just because they're trolls.
The flipside to all this hand-wringing about whether things beyond gear are covered by "everything" is to simply presume that they are not. It's a rule presented in the gear section. Contextually, it's easy enough to presume that the rule only applies to gear. I think that's the stronger way to read it, and therefore "everything" does not apply to lifestyle because it is not gear.
Of course: YMMV.
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I know I'm necroing this long dead topic... however I just noticed something.
Troll Tax and Custom Modification Metahuman Adaptation (Firing Squad pg 61).
By my reading, the Troll Tax covers modifying equipment for Trolls to use, that's the whole point of it right. However the modification says it's necessary to add this if I don't want a -2 to use the weapon. Also, it's often far less (and sometimes far more) than the Troll Tax. Does the mod supersede the Troll Tax or do I have to take it and pay the extra 20¥ for the privilege?
Or did someone just forget Troll's and Dwarf's are taxed for their gear in the core book when they wrote Firing Squad 6e?
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I know I'm necroing this long dead topic... however I just noticed something.
Troll Tax and Custom Modification Metahuman Adaptation (Firing Squad pg 61).
By my reading, the Troll Tax covers modifying equipment for Trolls to use, that's the whole point of it right. However the modification says it's necessary to add this if I don't want a -2 to use the weapon. Also, it's often far less (and sometimes far more) than the Troll Tax. Does the mod supersede the Troll Tax or do I have to take it and pay the extra 20¥ for the privilege?
Or did someone just forget Troll's and Dwarf's are taxed for their gear in the core book when they wrote Firing Squad 6e?
My take on it is you may use whichever version of the troll tax is more beneficial based on the item in question.
I'd also take the troll tax applying to absolutely everything with a grain of salt. Certain things don't even have physical forms, for example autosofts, so it's impossible to "adjust them for the troll's size and strength and dermal deposits". I'd even say there are some physical objects that still will work just fine without needing to be reinforced, like toxins. Of course these are personal opinion!
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I'd argue that the custom modification is for when you obtain something that wasn't automatically adjusted to you already. If the custom mod is cheaper, I'd use that price. If it's more expensive, it applies if you're modding existing gear, and the troll tax should apply if you're buying fresh.
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I'd argue that the custom modification is for when you obtain something that wasn't automatically adjusted to you already.
Thanks! GM likes this explanation so we're going with it. Of course it still costs 220¥ for the Troll... but it also means non-Trolls/Dwarfs acquiring a Troll or Dwarfed weapon can apply the Metahuman Modification to deTroll/Dwarfify it.
And we're using SSDR's general rulings on the Troll Tax, so the gun is more expensive, but not the bullets, Licensing, or Targeting Software.