Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Dm_Toff on <02-12-20/0004:00>
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Our group had their first game a few days ago and we are still getting used to the rules. We've come across a situation when our mage wanted to remove his magical signature after the job, here is what we couldn't find answers for:
1) To completely remove his signature, does the mage need to use the Cleanse action several times for each spell cast?
2) Can he attempt the Cleanse action while in the van on their way back or does he need to be on site?
3) If yes, could he Astral project, get on site and then attempt the Cleanse?
Everyone had a blast so far and we're all looking forward for game 2.
Thanks!
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So for #1: Yup. This means if you're still in combat it can be tricky to finish before reinforcements arrive.
#2 and #3: You're scrubbing the signature you left behind, so while it's not explicitly stated here (it was more explicit in previous editions), you do need to have astral sight on your signature to erase it (which means Mystic Adepts without Astral Perception are screwed). So you could astral project back to the site to Cleanse, though afterwards you're going to have a hard time finding your body unless you know exactly where the team is going. Remember: at 1km/CT you can't see a thing, at 100m/CT you can see stuff.
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Great, that clears things up!
If a rank 6 mage casts 3 spells, does he have to cleanse 18 levels worth of spells or would his signature be level 6?
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Each spell leaves its own signature. If you used single target spells it might be quicker to take the bodies.
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Our Group hasn't had many mages that did alot in the Astral. In 6th we have 2, so I am running into things where we are winging it.
To the original question:
Does the location of the signature take place at the spell casters location OR where the spell took affect (target). Mage Flamestrikes a person, but the person gets away. Does the signature stay with the person, like barrel rifling on a bullet?
My question on signature
Does the cleaning/astral signature work on sustained spells ie "Increased Reflexes"?
Is the signature where you cast the spell, or does it follow the mage around.
If so, how do you clean that up
Thanks
Ludwig
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Buff spells was a debate in previous editions as well, there's no official guide on it. I'd say they too leave a signature. And single target or mana area I would say on the targets. Physical also on the area.
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Does the location of the signature take place at the spell casters location OR where the spell took affect (target).
Both (unless perhaps if it explicitly changed since 5th edition).
Mage Flamestrikes a person, but the person gets away. Does the signature stay with the person, like barrel rifling on a bullet?
The signature of the Flamestrike spell will linger at the location from where the magician cast the spell as well as on the subject of the spell.
The signature of a Fireball spell will linger at the location from where the magician cast the spell as well as at the location where the spell had effect.
Does the cleaning/astral signature work on sustained spells ie "Increased Reflexes"?
Active magic (like an active spell, a sustained spell, a permanent spell that have not yet turned permanent, a projecting magician, a preparation, a spirit, a medicine lodge etc etc) will always have the signature of the responsible magician, this can not be scrubbed away.
You can use it to scrub off the lingering signature from the location where the magician originally cast the spell. It can also be used on the signature that will linger on the subject once the spell is no longer sustained.
Is the signature where you cast the spell, or does it follow the mage around.
You will leave your signature where you cast the spell. If you drive by cast a spell from inside a van you will leave your signature inside the van. If you cast a spell in an office cubicle then you will leave the signature in that office cubicle.
You will also leave the signature at the target of the spell. If you cast a spell on a subject then your signature will linger will on the subject. If you cast a spell on a location then your signature will linger at that object.
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My personal understanding is the spell signature is left at the point of origin (i.e. where the caster was). In the case of sustained spells, the caster's signature can be discerned while the target moves away but only while the spell is sustained.
A potential note: It's my belief that the signature remains stationary, relative to the gaiasphere. So if you cast a spell from inside a moving car then the point of origin, and your signature, remains behind in the street as the car moves away.
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SR5 p. 312 Astral Signatures
An astral signature of a spell can be detected both where it was cast and where it took effect.
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Ok but we should not expect people to read a previous edition. What does SR6 say?
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Ok but we should not expect people to read a previous edition. What does SR6 say?
It doesn't say anything other than "tge player scrubs traces of a single spell or magical effect from the astral plane." Nothing specific about the location or target, so I'm guessing it's the GM's call.
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SR5 p. 312 Astral Signatures
An astral signature of a spell can be detected both where it was cast and where it took effect.
In regards to cleansing/scrubbing I subscribed to a quantum entanglement theory of Spell Signatures so Players only had to Cleanse one Signature per casting. Totally a house rule, but usually Signature Scrubbing was happening in Narrative time anyway so was usually just a hand-wave anyway.
Couple Neo-Tokyo runs it sorta-kinda would have mattered with the asinine HTR response time.
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In regards to cleansing/scrubbing I subscribed to a quantum entanglement theory of Spell Signatures so Players only had to Cleanse one Signature per casting. Totally a house rule, but usually Signature Scrubbing was happening in Narrative time anyway so was usually just a hand-wave anyway.
Oh that's a neat idea. Stealing that. (Not that my pinkish-mohawkish table is overly concerned with forensics, whether thaumaturgical or otherwise, but occasionally I do send them somewhere where it matters.)
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I am aligned with Devil Rat in that I would think the signature remains stationary relative to the gaiasphere.
I also like Hobbes's point, its makes sure the players think to clean up after themselves but doesn’t bog the game down too much.
FYI: Played 1st-4th and missed 5th due to life. The group I’m working with now is a mix of 4th edition people and noobs.
I appreciate everyone's help.
Regards,
Ludwig
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SR5 p. 312 Astral Signatures
An astral signature of a spell can be detected both where it was cast and where it took effect.
In regards to cleansing/scrubbing I subscribed to a quantum entanglement theory of Spell Signatures so Players only had to Cleanse one Signature per casting. Totally a house rule, but usually Signature Scrubbing was happening in Narrative time anyway so was usually just a hand-wave anyway.
Couple Neo-Tokyo runs it sorta-kinda would have mattered with the asinine HTR response time.
Well, depending on your reading it could actually be RAW that a spell only have one astral signature....
Just that this single astral signature might be detected (and scrubbed?) from two different locations.
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I've given up on that. You either have plenty of time to clean up everything or you don't and you leave it. But talking about spells - how does spells with a range of touch and LOS interact? If I cast invisibility on a party member can I leave him out of my LOS or the spell will drop if I do? Same with buffs and Physical Mask.
P.S I didn't know you can't clean auras if you cannot Astrally perceive. Another thing that screw up Mystic Adepts. There are close to zero benefits of playing one now. Especially with the split magic between spell/points. I'm seriously considering giving Mystic Adepts the ability to see the Astral for free even if they can't go there.
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Mystic adept can get adept powers (which is pretty huge). This is something full magician cannot get. For this they have to pay for astral perception and they cannot use astral projection. A lot of people would consider mystic adept coming out on top here....
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Mystic adept can get adept powers (which is pretty huge). This is something full magician cannot get. For this they have to pay for astral perception and they cannot use astral projection. A lot of people would consider mystic adept coming out on top here....
In the long run - perhaps. But in a relatively shorter adventure - Not so much. But that's why everything is a subject o DM approval.
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In a shorter game you are trading in a few spells and astral projection for the ability to throw buffs you'd need a spell and a sustaining method for into a permanent boost that can't be taken away. Really don't see why they're considered underpowered.