Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: imthedci on <03-10-20/1619:44>
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a. For a spell like Fireball, can you both Amp up and Increase Area (obviously, this would really buff up the drain value) the spell at the same time?
b. Dispelling - Does the caster/gm have to keep track of net hits you get when first casting a spell to track when/if the spell is dispelled?
c. Summoning - Let me make sure I have this correct...
- Caster picks the force of the spirit you want
- Caster rolls Conjuring + Magic
- Spirit opposes by rolling Force * 2
- Net hits are caster roll minus spirit roll (if this is => 1, then spirit is summoned with net hits # of services
- Caster rolls for drain against a drain value equal to the spirits roll (in step 3)
Is that correct? (I'm not sure if the spirit actually rolls in step 3 or if it's a set number)
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A: You can even amp multiple times I believe, though a GM likely will ban you from using guaranteed-fatal amps.
B: Yup.
C: That sounds correct. Yes step 3 is a roll so no guarantees.
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...can you both Amp up and Increase Area ... at the same time?
Yes.
Not only that, you can also both Amp Up and Increase Area more than once for that big play,
You might want to house rule a limit to the total number of Adjustments you may make to a single spell.
Does the caster/gm have to keep track of net hits you get when first casting a spell
Since net hits are often used for the effect of the spell you normally need to keep track of it anyway.....
For example
* Hush gives targets the Silent (#) status (see p. 53), with the number equaling the net hits on the Sorcery + Magic test.
* The spellcaster rolls Sorcery + Magic; the net hits from the threshold of any Willpower + Intuition tests viewers must make to see through the illusion.
* Roll Sorcery + Magic and add net hits to the target’s Defense Rating.
* Roll Sorcery + Magic; for each hit, you can levitate 50 kilos worth of material or people.
* Physical Barrier builds a wall where you want it to be, with a Structure rating equal to (Magic + hits on a Sorcery + Magic test).
* .....
Net hits on your Dispelling attempt will cancel out (reduce) the original number of net hits.
And with it the strength of the current spell will also diminish.
This is working as intended.
c. Summoning - ... Is that correct? (I'm not sure if the spirit actually rolls in step 3 or if it's a set number)
Yes, it is correct that it is resolved as an Opposed Conjuring + Magic vs. (Force x 2) Test.
edit: slipped by MC. I need to learn to not post walls of text :D
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imthedci,
The only thing I would like to add is on Amp Up/Increase Area. I don't know if your asking from a player or GM perspective.
I do know some GM's limit the amount of Amp Up/Increase Areas, but I think it comes down to game play. If your a player that abuses it, then a GM will probably limit it (vise versa). If you (or other player) only pull out the tactical nuke fireball when needed, which I think was the intent of the rule, then there is no need to create a house rule limit.
Regards,
Ludwig
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Cool. Thanks for the help.
Thought of one other thing. (Technically it's two small joined things)
Do spirits have Edge (I'm sure they probably do, but I'm not looking at a book at the moment) and, if so, can they use that Edge on the dice roll to oppose being summoned? (I imagine that if it's possible, they'd only do so if it was someone with a bad rep with the spirits)
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Cool. Thanks for the help.
Thought of one other thing. (Technically it's two small joined things)
Do spirits have Edge (I'm sure they probably do, but I'm not looking at a book at the moment) and, if so, can they use that Edge on the dice roll to oppose being summoned? (I imagine that if it's possible, they'd only do so if it was someone with a bad rep with the spirits)
Well, the statblock for spirits explicitly omits an Edge stat.
However, I prefer to assume that the reason for the omission is that Spirits can never gain nor spend Edge while in servitude, and that we'll see that Free Spirits (once we get rules for them) will prove to have Edge and be able to spend it.
I envision that Spirits should be able to spend edge to resist being summoned, but in 5e I only thought that should be the case when counter-spending against the PC (you spent edge? Fine, it spends edge...) or to try to prevent oversummoning from breaking game balance. Note that with Spirits rolling Force x 2 dice, net hits are already harder to come by even before the potential for spirits spending edge, and haven't really got a feel yet for whether it's a good idea or not to have spirits make the summoner reroll hits in 6we.
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Cool. Thanks for the help.
Thought of one other thing. (Technically it's two small joined things)
Do spirits have Edge (I'm sure they probably do, but I'm not looking at a book at the moment) and, if so, can they use that Edge on the dice roll to oppose being summoned? (I imagine that if it's possible, they'd only do so if it was someone with a bad rep with the spirits)
Spirits are noticeably harder to Summon in 6e than they were in 5e. They are the only thing which can cause a physical drain to a maxed start caster with a magic of 6. And they win the ties meaning you need at least 1 net hit in order to summon them. I have found that 6 force spirits are quite often a close call for a starting caster with 13/14 dices. With more you will probably not summon the spirit and take a physical drain.
P.S The Materialization Powers of spirits makes them quite strong against mundane enemies due to their Immunity to Normal weapons. This contradicts - "Spirits can be fought with anything that affects astral beings, or with regular weapons if they materialize." Because it will be too easy to have something straightforward in that edition :P
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Hardened missed the damage-nerf, just slash in two I says.
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Well it WAS halved from 5e levels. BUT yes, I agree it would be better if it was halved again...
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The armour amount was but not the autohits.
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Iīd simply replace the Auto Hits with Bonus Dice on the Soak test. Itīs a bit weaker than rating/2 Autohits on average, but with the potential to generate more additional Net Hits on a lucky roll. Autohits on Soak tests. are kinda standoffish, prone to misunderstandings and have a general tendency to be overpowered in an environment with low base Damage Codes. Also, every point of the HA rating has an equal worth that way, not just the uneven ones.
Either way, I think itīs worth considering to keep the "Finally, if the modified Damage Value of an attack is less than the Hardened Armor
rating, the attack does no damage." rule intact as an additional benefit of Hardened Armor. Currently, that sentence is obviously redundant.
Example: Jimmy shoots at a manifested Level 6 Fire Sprit with his Ares Predator (with a Double-Tap for +1 Damage) and scores 2 Net Hits for 6 points of Damage. Luckily, thatīs enough to hurt the Spirit: Just one point of Damage less, and the Attack would have just bounced of because of the Spirits Immunity to normal weapons. Now the Spirit has to soak the damage: It rolls its Body of 7 PLUS its Hardened Armor Rating of 6 for a total of 13 dice.
Sounds reasonable IMO.
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Um... If we are talking about spirits - The Materialization power does not mention Hardened armor at all. It says - Immunity to Mundane weapons. But yeah - hardened armor is a mess. Also - Sharks...
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Hardened armor is the function of immunity to mundane weapons. You can look it up in critter power section for further details.
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A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance
to a certain type of attack or affliction. Effectively,
the critter has a Hardened Armor with a
rating equal to its Essence against that particular
kind of damage (see Hardened Armor, above).
[...]
Immunity to Normal Weapons: This applies to
all attacks that are not magical in nature; weapon
foci, spells, and adept or critter powers function
normally. If the critter also has the Allergy or Vulnerability
weakness, then the Immunity does not
apply against non-magical attacks made using the
allergen or vulnerability.
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A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance
to a certain type of attack or affliction. Effectively,
the critter has a Hardened Armor with a
rating equal to its Essence against that particular
kind of damage (see Hardened Armor, above).
[...]
Immunity to Normal Weapons: This applies to
all attacks that are not magical in nature; weapon
foci, spells, and adept or critter powers function
normally. If the critter also has the Allergy or Vulnerability
weakness, then the Immunity does not
apply against non-magical attacks made using the
allergen or vulnerability.
Thanks... It is really annoying that one thing is explained on 3 different places...
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To be fair, 'Materialization gives Immunity', 'Immunity works like Hardened but with these special conditions', 'Hardened works like this' is not only from past editions, but also prevents you from having to edit the same text twice.
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Using the word "Immunity" in any part of the description is also just plain misleading. Materialization giving "resistance to non-magical attacks" would be superior wording.
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I hate to add yet another question, but it applies to this topic, so it's probably better to put it here than a new topic.
I noticed that Materialization is a sustained power. Does this mean that Spirits get the -2 dice pool penalty for doing stuff while sustaining something (just like casters get) or do powers not work that way?
EDIT: I *think* the Powers heading on p221 says that it doesn't work that way, but verification would be nice. :)
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I *think* the Powers heading on p221 says that it doesn't work that way
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I mean all we can say that the rules still say critters don't do sustaining penalties except for with actual spells.
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I hate to add yet another question, but it applies to this topic, so it's probably better to put it here than a new topic.
I noticed that Materialization is a sustained power. Does this mean that Spirits get the -2 dice pool penalty for doing stuff while sustaining something (just like casters get) or do powers not work that way?
EDIT: I *think* the Powers heading on p221 says that it doesn't work that way, but verification would be nice. :)
Critter powers was clarified to not impose the -2 sustaining penalty back in 5e (just as, for comparison purposes, Adept powers don't impose a -2 dice while in effect). I think it's safe to presume it's still that way in 6we.
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Pretty much. The only thing they face sustaining penalties on, are Innate Spells.
Sustained powers may
be maintained over time at no effort or cost. Critters
are not subject to any modifiers for keeping an
effect going, as magicians are for sustaining spells,
though they are limited as to the number of powers
they can have going at one time. Critters may
sustain a number of powers (or multiple uses of
the same power) at one time equal to their Magic.
The exception to this is the Innate Spell power,
where Sorcery is used to cast the spell. The Innate
Spell must be sustained per the Sorcery rules on p.
132), but critters can sustain multiple spells as per
those rules.
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Thanks for the verification. I figured it worked that way, but it's nice to know for sure. :-[ ;)