Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Relic on <03-30-11/2351:47>
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Hey guys, totally new here. Also new to Shadowrun, but i've been gaming and GMing for 10+ years.
My group and i are transitioning from a d20 d&d campaign into a Shadowrun campaign and i want to go with zero magic. No spells, dragons, and especially no elves. I'm pretty sure this has been done many times before so im hopeful that you guys can steer me towards some resources. A non magic timeline/history would be amazing, it will take a concentrated effort to re-write the 4th edition history that i have.
If anyone has any experience running this sort of campaign i would love to hear any tip, stories, recs you might have.
Thanks in advance, hope to talk to some of you soon.
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the game your looking for is cyberpunk 2020. its a little old but should be exactly what your looking for. No magic elves trolls dwarves or anthing like that. from what I remember of it it was a decent PnP game
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the game your looking for is cyberpunk 2020. its a little old but should be exactly what your looking for. No magic elves trolls dwarves or anthing like that. from what I remember of it it was a decent PnP game
Agree.
C2020 has the best combat system I've ever seen. You can literally die from almost any kind of injury (I had 5 chars in three months' game) and it's almost totally based off the "classic" cyberpunk scenario (think William Gibson). It also has a rather decent random character generation system.
The whole flavor of Shadowrun, for me, is the salad it has with magical elements. Take it off and it's no longer Shadowrun.
[edited for additional details]
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Ditto with the above. A large chunk of the fun, flavor, feel, and balance, of Shadowrun comes from the integration of magic, and the timeline is enormously affected by magic, as is the very geo-political situation in The Sixth World. Playing a campaign with low magic or running a team without a mage is one thing...but trying to remove magic as the integral part of the setting (and mechanic) that it is?
Just play CP:2020, instead. It'll be a whole, whole, lot less work.
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I agree, to remove magic you'd have to write an entirely new history.
As much as I like cyberpunk, Shadowrun's blend of cyberpunk+magic is like solo chocolate or peanut butter vs peanut butter cups. Mmmm, peanut butter cups.
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And now they've added Steampunk into Shadowrun. :P
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Yeah, but that's the great thing about SR; it's like the swiss-army knife of gaming: you have so many tools and methods for customization that there is always SOME way of working whatever you want in.
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well, thanks for the feedback so far guys. I checked out Cyberpunk 2020 and didn't love what i read.
Has anyone here tried running a low magic SR campaign?
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Running a low magic campaign is an entirely different than trying to eliminate magic from the Shadowrun universe.
Most people of the Sixth World don't deal with magic on a daily basis, and only 1% of the population worldwide is Awakened. You should be able to go entire runs without magical opposition, depending (of course) on the target. It also depends on what you consider magical opposition... you'll find awakened critters guarding installations far more often than actual combat mages or bound spirits.
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Note that the 1% is people that have any magical ability at all. Even if it is minor.
An actual, useful in combat or security magician? High prices, man. Very high priced.
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Also: I (and a lot of others, I'm sure) used to run campaigns that were virtually Matrix free back in the SR3 days when no-one wanted to be a decker. The Matrix was still there, and still a major part of the game universe, but we would avoid actually having to deal with the nuts and bolts of it. (Usually by having an NPC decker.) I see no reason that you can't just minimize having to deal with magic without actually eliminating it from the universe.
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Also: I (and a lot of others, I'm sure) used to run campaigns that were virtually Matrix free back in the SR3 days when no-one wanted to be a decker. The Matrix was still there, and still a major part of the game universe, but we would avoid actually having to deal with the nuts and bolts of it. (Usually by having an NPC decker.) I see no reason that you can't just minimize having to deal with magic without actually eliminating it from the universe.
Ditto on this one.
If you just exclude PC's from taking Awakened archtypes, you can still have an excellent campaign.
Just define for the group how limited you want it to be?
- No mages?
- No Physads?
- No Awakened Races? (ie everybody's human? Hmmm...smacks of Humanis...)
If this is just a PC limitation, but the world itself continues with it's magic levels, I think you're in for a really fun campaign...
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Set your game in the Zurich Orbital would eliminate most effective magic :P
As to getting rid of the metatypes &c, you can do it, it does take away from the flavor of Shadowrun, but if you like the system & are willing to invent your own history, you can make it work.
Alternatively, pick a random sprawl in a poorly detailed country (Say, Charleston, South Carolina, CAS) and decide that somehow, someway, they've purged themselves of magic & non-humans. Keep in mind that, from a metaplot perspective, this can invite the wrath of those very elements you're trying to avoid, but maybe they found a sufficiently "peaceful" path to their segregation.
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just make the teams fixer a Humanis prejudiced against magic. Voila, he's only gonna hire non-awakened humans. But ofc you would run against metatype friendly organizations.
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That idea for a space campaign could be interesting... I've always wanted to send a team up the well, but never had a good enough reason to. (Plus, any Awakened player is going to want to sit out the mission.) If you can scrounge up a copy of Target: Wastelands, it has a lot of information on space and how to run it.
I really don't think you should take out the metatypes, however. (Even if you want to play Humanis... you're still going to be dealing with metas.) The various races are a "core" part of the Shadowrun universe. As someone already said: if you're taking those out, you may as well just play Cyberpunk 2020.
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Not sure how welcome an idea it would be, but you could take a leaf out of Ghost in the Shell, utilising the different metahuman types as default shells. (standard, construction, covert ops, paramilitary, etc)
Differentiating that from standard cyberware and cyberzombies would be the main issue, but if you're running what amounts to essentially a pre-sixth age SR in 2070 ... well, there's no C-Zs or evidence of souls to consider, right? (and so much more ... sheesh)
Then you're fluffing out why Essence is not a redundant trait - I'd put it as how much of an integrated whole the sum of your flesh and steel actually makes. The more non-standard or disparate 'ware you fit into a shell, the more dysfunctional it becomes.
Not sure you'd have to get rid of magic, so much as selectively allow it and refluff what you use. I don't envy anyone doing the work involved in this.
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Have you considered trying Eclipse Phase (http://www.eclipsephase.com/game)?
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Running shadowrun with Zero magic would not be that hard you just need to rewrite the historical content, and even then you only need broad strokes when dealing with the world in general and specific details when dealing with the town you have.
Native Nations- look at the republic of Lakohta and what they are trying. in short they are trying to use recently signed rights agreements to pull out of the treaties that the government has put them under. they are not currently being taken seriously by the government due to Russel Means not being the official leader of the Lakohta people. but in the last election he was narrowly defeated. What if he hadn't and the US government was forced by the united nations to concede to the republics demands. This would open precedent for other native nations to possibly do the same. Many tribes claiming major portions of Canada cause the Canadian government to collapse and the land was sold to the US.
CAS- Cival unrest in the backing down of the US over the Republic causes major civil unrest and the CAS succeeds from the union once again. War is emanate.
Denver "The treaty city"- Due to world concern with the rising war in Afghanistan and the Succession of the CAS the North american governments set for to create a peace and formed the treaty city.
Though much of this is unlikely to ever happen it is somewhat plausible, and that is all you really need. Seattle stays a bastion of UCAS in the wilderness corporations still make a play for power maybe that's how the US go the money to buy Canada, maybe the recent economic problems caused the corporations to make a play that bailed out the governments but bought them the ability to become what they are in 2072.
It also allows you to update the material a bit and have Wireless take off from the start and Deckers never happened and such. Much more leeway.
Just some thoughts
In another vein you could check out Eclipse phase as was said earlier but I think that the Shadowrun world is much more fleshed out. Eclipse Phase does have some good stuff in it though so does Transhuman sphere. Maybe you can take parts of there histories and play with SR rules and tech. The possibilities are endless.
Red
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I'm an SR junky from way back and would recommend giving it a try. For hard sci fi go check out Eclipse phase. But if you want a zero magic cyberpunk game as stated before CP2020 is the granddaddy. Interface zero is alittle more recent and comes in two flavors the latest Savaged. http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?c=rdp (http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?c=rdp)
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I'm actually planning to run a game like this. I really don't see the diffculty though. Just nix the Metahumans, refluff magic, change a little history and your done. Cyberpunk is an option but, and I'm sorry if I offend, has a really, overly diffcult system, so I wouldn't use it. Eclipse Phase is a great game, but I don't think that's what your looking for either. I mean, you'd have to change it all up too. It is SciFi HORROR after all. A friend of mine already ran a game in a similar way. It worked just fine. I say go for it and let me know how it runs. Mine starts in a couple weeks if you want an update as well.
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In your case I'd propose Interface Zero. It's a good successor of Cyberpunk 2020, and it's on Savage Worlds rules - so it's simple, fast and furious.
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I think there is no problem in using the mechanics of Shadowrun for playing a strict cyberpunk campaign. I really like the system and the way it deals with most of the things the setting needs, and "taking away" magic, non-human races and almost every other module that's rooted in fantasy will not unbalance the system. I've also toyed the idea of using it, but by the time being I am too busy to create a satisfactory cyberpunk timeline...
Good luck in your game, and if you try using the Shadowrun mechanics, post your results.
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Well, it will tear out it's heart. And the setting doesn't make much sense without magic even...
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Well, it will tear out it's heart. And the setting doesn't make much sense without magic even...
Which just means that he'd be using the rules (excluding those for magic) in his own cyberpunk setting. That's the big choker, is re-writing an entire universe worth of fluff. Though, if you kept to a single sprawl, handwavium might suffice. Depends on the party, mine would still want to know everything about the world outside the city (after all, cultural mores are likely to affect job payout).
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thanks for all the replies guys. I looked at every system that was recommended in this thread, and a few more besides, but im still stuck on Shadowrun. A lot of the suggestions here have been great and im working on writing up a history that explains some of the magical stuff in non magic ways. Will post here if this campaign actually gets off the ground.
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thanks for all the replies guys. I looked at every system that was recommended in this thread, and a few more besides, but im still stuck on Shadowrun. A lot of the suggestions here have been great and im working on writing up a history that explains some of the magical stuff in non magic ways. Will post here if this campaign actually gets off the ground.
So, just to clarify.
You want a Shadowrun world, with Shadowrun Mechanics, but no magic at all?
No Metahumans?
No HMVV Plague?
No Surge?
No Magicians, Physads, Spirits, Spells?
No Orichalcum or magical minerals?
No Dragons?
Query: Are you allowing Technomancers?
In which case, it's actually really simple.
A) Remove every archtype or critter with a Magic attribute. Done.
B) Remove all races except Humans. Done.
C) Remove Great Dragons from head of boards, and replace with seemingly uber Human corporate leaders (or personal armies, in the case of Ghostwalker)
D) Rewrite history to account for Great Ghost dance effects etc as just Catastrophic geological phenomena (multiple volcanic explosions, etc)
Then fast forward to the current 2072 timeline, where noone really cares about the history anyway :P and move on with Magic having never happened.
Personally, I really don't understand why you're doing this. Magic is a very cool, and integral part of the standard Shadowrun setting.
However, different strokes for different folks, and mechanically what you're doing is actually quite simple.
Cheers and good luck.
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thanks for all the replies guys. I looked at every system that was recommended in this thread, and a few more besides, but im still stuck on Shadowrun. A lot of the suggestions here have been great and im working on writing up a history that explains some of the magical stuff in non magic ways. Will post here if this campaign actually gets off the ground.
So, Relic, in which step are you? I'm kinda curious...
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Instead of trying to write out the magic, end the magic age. It's tapped out and gone.
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Hah, and those stupid hippies were predicting 'Global Horroring'. ;D
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I think you could remove metatypes, paracritters, and magic from Shadowrun fairly easily, rules-wise. The remaining cyberpunk elements are balanced - technology becomes the sole focus of the game's transhuman themes, but you could say that about typical cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk.
The setting - well, how detailed do you really need it? Megacorporations have become mini-feudal kingdoms waging continual covert war against each other, nations are weaker and often balkanized, the line between the haves and the have-nots is a DMZ, and cyber and bio technology can make people more than human.
You don't really need to adopt SR's history and fluff. You don't need goofy things like Indians taking over half of the country, the South seceding again, the Japanese turning into an aggressive military state, and so on. You can still keep the megacorporations and criminal organizations. The only thing I would suggest, since there won't be these eco-friendly magic places like Amazonia, is to play up the eco-activism and neo-anarchism more, to have some foils for the megacorporations (unless you want them to not have any foils, which is a staple of some cyberpunk).
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I think you could remove metatypes, paracritters, and magic from Shadowrun fairly easily, rules-wise. The remaining cyberpunk elements are balanced - technology becomes the sole focus of the game's transhuman themes, but you could say that about typical cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk.
The setting - well, how detailed do you really need it? Megacorporations have become mini-feudal kingdoms waging continual covert war against each other, nations are weaker and often balkanized, the line between the haves and the have-nots is a DMZ, and cyber and bio technology can make people more than human.
You don't really need to adopt SR's history and fluff. You don't need goofy things like Indians taking over half of the country, the South seceding again, the Japanese turning into an aggressive military state, and so on. You can still keep the megacorporations and criminal organizations. The only thing I would suggest, since there won't be these eco-friendly magic places like Amazonia, is to play up the eco-activism and neo-anarchism more, to have some foils for the megacorporations (unless you want them to not have any foils, which is a staple of some cyberpunk).
I agree, but it still gets to me. I'm against using rules of a game in another game's scenario.
You wanna play something on your own scenario, I'd suggest D20 or GURPS. A good GM can adapt both to be friendlier and simpler.
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I agree, but it still gets to me. I'm against using rules of a game in another game's scenario.
You wanna play something on your own scenario, I'd suggest D20 or GURPS. A good GM can adapt both to be friendlier and simpler.
It's a lot of hassle, but sometimes really worth it...
Longest, most successful campaign I ever ran was a Dark Sun (Advanced D&D 2nd Edition) campaign converted to use Earthdawn mechanics. Lasted about 3 years playing 1-3 times per week.... Ahhh, Uni days :)