Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Whidou on <04-22-11/0845:43>
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Hello,
Is there any drawback to the Satellite Link ?
I mean, it is way cheaper than the Response upgrade, provides R8 Signal and is really difficult to jam.
Is there places where it does not work (no wi-fi zones, underground buildings, ...) ?
How big is the portable satellite dish ? Once deployed, is it still easily movable ?
Is the signal more easily detected by security systems ?
If I add ECCM R2 to my satellite linked commlink, does it become impossible to jam ?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Well, bad weather would probably give it a bad day, just like a regular satellite dish. And I ruled in my group that driving with one deployed on a vehicle would rip it off if you go any faster than a crawl.
For the personal version, I figure it's the size of a small backpack for carrying, and the size of a dinner platter when deployed, but very light weight. Just a bit awkward.
It's also the first thing you usually drop when trying to climb up the side of the building, unless you have Quickdraw Holsters.
On the bright side, if you're in a total static zone, hey, insta-matrix! Great for when you're out hunting in the NAN or stuck in deepest, darkest Africa.
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The Shadowrun rules book idea of "satellite communications" is really drawn from what sat-com tech was back in the 80s and 90s.
Current-day satellite comms are TINY compared to that era. Hand-held sat-phones aren't that much bigger than regular cellphones. Full high quality commercial and military video and data streaming systems have tiny hand-sized antennas now, not the massive dishes of yore.
Chalk it up to real life outpacing fiction again.
-k
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Thanks a lot for your replies.
Would it be possible (maybe with a Hadware test), to use a pair of satellite dishes in order to link two devices without using the satellite ?
I guess it would loose some signal rating and become uni-directional. Yet, it would work underground, on an exceptionally long distance, won't have to bounce on another matrix node and would still be difficult to jam.
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The Shadowrun rules book idea of "satellite communications" is really drawn from what sat-com tech was back in the 80s and 90s.
Current-day satellite comms are TINY compared to that era. Hand-held sat-phones aren't that much bigger than regular cellphones. Full high quality commercial and military video and data streaming systems have tiny hand-sized antennas now, not the massive dishes of yore.
Chalk it up to real life outpacing fiction again.
-k
Those are achieved by having low orbit sats. The SR stuff seems to be using geo-stationary ones, much like TV sats. Both have its benefits and drawbacks. The low orbit stuff may be able to work with smaller antennas, but as they have to move faster then planetary rotation they may allows positioning of the user not unlike the mobile phone network (just consider what sats are being used for the connection, and their coverage area at the time). The higher orbit ones may require a bigger antenna, but have so big a contact zone that figuring out where the hell the user is borders on futile.
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Thanks a lot for your replies.
Would it be possible (maybe with a Hadware test), to use a pair of satellite dishes in order to link two devices without using the satellite ?
I guess it would loose some signal rating and become uni-directional. Yet, it would work underground, on an exceptionally long distance, won't have to bounce on another matrix node and would still be difficult to jam.
look up the microwave link in Unwired, it is basically the same thing.
And RL telcos have been using such setups for decades, just look for what looks like a very big drum pointing the drum skin in some direction or other.
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Those are achieved by having low orbit sats. The SR stuff seems to be using geo-stationary ones, much like TV sats. Both have its benefits and drawbacks. The low orbit stuff may be able to work with smaller antennas, but as they have to move faster then planetary rotation they may allows positioning of the user not unlike the mobile phone network (just consider what sats are being used for the connection, and their coverage area at the time). The higher orbit ones may require a bigger antenna, but have so big a contact zone that figuring out where the hell the user is borders on futile.
Unwired states that the default Satellite Link is used for low orbit satellites : the antenna has to follow them and there is a switch every 30 minutes. I guess this could be kind of complex when the dish is moving as it would have to rotate like crazy to stay in the right direction.
The book also explains that geostationary satellites can be used, with a discretion bonus and response malus. Yet It doesn't says anything about the dishes being different. Do you think there should be two kinds of non-exchangeable satellite Links ?
look up the microwave link in Unwired, it is basically the same thing.
And RL telcos have been using such setups for decades, just look for what looks like a very big drum pointing the drum skin in some direction or other.
Well, if I can avoid carrying two antennas instead of one, I don't mind having to convert my satellite dish into a directional one on the fly.
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Sat uplinks give you a upgrade to your signal but not a response one, but it does give you a response hit if you use a geosynchronous sat rather than a low orbit sat. The rules for these can be found in Unwired. Basically the benefits for a Sat up link are that you can connect with orbital sats and use them to bounce your signal back to earth. This allows you to connect to the matrix even if you are in a dead zone as you are within signal range of the Sat. Remember that you not only have to have a signal rating that can reach the device that you wish to contact but it must be able to contact you as well. It would be up to your GM to use them for general device to device connections rather than using the sat, but you would still need that device to have a signal that could reach your device. You might as well just use the sat. When using a low orbit Sat you can only maintain connection for 30 minutes but it works the same as regular rules with very wide signal range as you are beaming your signal from orbit so its target range is much larger. If you use a geosynchronous Sat you no longer have a time restriction, you are now impossible to trace, and you have an even wider range, but your response is effectively cut in half. If the GM wishes he could impose modifiers based on your location and the weather patterns at the time or other factors that would effect the quality of the reception. Since this is the future though I wouldn't since the book does not specifically mention then as far as I recall. AS far as being un-jamable, that is not true. If your signal is reduced to less than 8 you probably would lose the ability to uplink to a sat due to your signal not being able to reach it. Though you may retain the ability to connect to other devices around you if your signal is still high enough.
Jamming reduces signal and it is not fully necessary to kill it entirely just enough to get the devices out of range of each other.
Red
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they talk about a tracking dish but they don't tell you where you can get one or how much it costs as a separate device. but the description of the link in SR4a says it comes with a dish and that the link connect to low orbit sats so I would make the assumption that it is a tracking dish already. Ah the power of the future. As far a higher orbit sats I would say the same dish will connect to those as well and not worry about having multiple devices or require a signal upgrade to signal 9 to make the connection. This would be up to your GM though.
Red
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Could be that what one get is a set of antenna with a common connector box. One could be a omnidirectional (something like a fat car radio antenna) and another a fold out antenna (i have seen image of RL flat antennas that fold up into a briefcase) for geostationary ones. All collapsible into some kind of case.
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consider this: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Iridium_phone2.jpg
no tracking dish needed ;)
edit, and here are a shot of the collapsible antenna i was thinking about: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Satellite_phone.jpg
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I was just going by the book, which says a dish is given. but I like the antenna better and probably will use that for my personal games.
thanks for the links,
Red
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Another thing to take into consideration is that the world is still rebuilding it's satellite network after Crash 2.0.
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Also remember having a satellite link doesn't mean you automatically have access to a low-orbit satellite. It's not going to do you any good unless you know the orbit of, and have access to, a pirate satellite, have some clearance to the owner of a corp or govt satellite, or have the cojones to hack your way in.
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If you don't have the cojones to hack into somewhere, what are you doing 'Running?
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I figure satellite access is part of the MSP (matrix service provider) package which is generally covered by lifestyle (because book keeping is lame.)
As to why you wouldn't just use it all the time, it's not exactly subtle, easily portable or even necessary outside of specific circumstances. It will give you coverage in a static or dead zone, but won't do too well breaking through jamming. Jamming hits it harder because the signal has to travel into space, so if your sig drops at all, it can't travel far enough to reach the satellite. IRL low orbit is 400km, so you'd need a R9 signal to reach it. Apparently in SR, you only need the 100km range the dish's R8 signal provides. Point is, sat dishes talk to sats, and sats are faaaaar away, so you need every bit of juice to reach it. Even 1 pt of intentional jamming or the unintentional interference of a roof is enough to prevent that.
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@ten-hex: ouch man, you are my kind of GM. Nice.
Back to discussion: most of the references I have found show LEO as about 180, 200, or 300 to 1,000 or 2,000km this means that it is not all LEO sats are within even signal 9 and a few would also be in range of signal 8 or even 7 in some cases
Geosynchronous sats are around 22,000 to 45,000 depending on the search and that really explains the lag, but not how a sat uplink's signal 8 could reach. Yet they list this as being able to be reached by a signal 8.
Red
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Sorry contact not trying to be contradictory,your post impressed me so I hit the inter webs to learn more and that's what I found. Your point was really good however.
Red
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Sorry contact not trying to be contradictory,your post impressed me so I hit the inter webs to learn more and that's what I found. Your point was really good however.
Red
No worries. I ain't some kinda fact-pope trying to LARP infallibility. :)
Don't let the avatar fool you. I'm not an angry guy. I just think Cole Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_100_Bullets_characters#Cole_Burns_.28aka_.22The_Wolf.22.29) is a badass.
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I must have misunderstood the jamming rules then. I thought it only affected the devices with a lower rating than the jammer and left the other ones unaffected.
So in fact the signal of the device becomes Original Signal minus Jammer's Rating ?
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Exactly, you got it. Just remember ECCM adds to the signal rating to resist the jamming attempt and it becomes signal +ECCM- jamming= current signal. Other factors like landscaping attinuation and wireless negating paint/wallpaper can also reduce the current signal as well.
@kontact- I could agree more he is a badass.
Red
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Okay, thanks a lot.