Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: GeLrIrToCrH on <04-25-11/1439:50>
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I gotta ask....How come there's no mention of ceramic cyber spurs or bio-ware spurs in any of the books? I've looked thru SR4, SR4A, and Augmentation and have found nothing. I mean, we have ceramic steak knives and such, why not ceramic cyber spurs? I've ruled in my home game that ceramic cyber spurs must be delta ware (cuz its harder to detect - duh) and cost an extra 500 per spur (since the closest thing I could find was ceramic versions of anything seem to be at least 500 nuyen more).
And what if you want bone claws (ala wolverine (come on, its what we all think of when we read the discription))? Haven't come up with any rules for bio-ware spurs yet. Anyway, that's my 2 cents (plus some) - go ahead, discuss, disect, laugh at me, what-have-you
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What would be the point of Ceramic spurs, a cyber ware scanner will detect them just as easily as normal spurs.
Assuming both are same grade.
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Creating Wolverine-style bioware claws would be a hell of a feat and I can easily see it leaving you with Popeye arms. Bear in mind that you're adding extra bone, muscle, and tendons to some already rather cramped and complicated areas. It would require some massive restructuring of the forearms, wrists, and hands. A cyber spur on the other hand, is likely just a box containing a blade and the simple mechanism to extend and retract it. The cyber version would likely be less invasive and require less restructuring. Odd as that seems.
Well, those are my thoughts anyway.
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Creating Wolverine-style bioware claws would be a hell of a feat and I can easily see it leaving you with Popeye arms. Bear in mind that you're adding extra bone, muscle, and tendons to some already rather cramped and complicated areas. It would require some massive restructuring of the forearms, wrists, and hands. A cyber spur on the other hand, is likely just a box containing a blade and the simple mechanism to extend and retract it. The cyber version would likely be less invasive and require less restructuring. Odd as that seems.
Well, those are my thoughts anyway.
Actually, the Wolverine blades are already in play (granted, they're cyber and not bio):
Hand razors are 2.5-centimeter, chromed steel or carbon fiber blades that replace the user’s fingernails or slide out from beneath synthetic nail replacements. Hand blades slip out of the side of the hand opposite the thumb, parallel to the hand. Spurs consist of a variable number of blades protruding from the user’s wrist or knuckles.
(emphasis mine)
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Hand Razors are more like Lady Deathstrike (Or, you know, the origin: Molly Millions!).
Wolverine Claws are more like some forms of Cyberspurs. (Some are a single blade, some are multiple blades, some come from under the wrist, some from over the wrist.).
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What would be the point of Ceramic spurs, a cyber ware scanner will detect them just as easily as normal spurs.
Assuming both are same grade.
True, I don't think the detectability of them would be any different. The only thing I can think of is that they would be able to hold an edge longer than metal spurs. However, they are also not as strong and may break alot easier in the chaos of combat. Ceramic steak knives present a lot of advantages of steel ones, but you don't use them for fighting.
-ARCimedes
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Well, you guys all bring up good points. To answer the cyber-scanner comment, yes it would probably
get detected, that's why I was thinking delta-ware. My main thought behind ceramic was that it would be undetectable by MAD scanners (which seem to be more common, from some of the other posts I've seen). I was also thinking these would be used more for a 'surprise' attack. More stabbing than slashing. I wouldn't use them in a fight against a katana, I can't see that ending well.
I hadn't thought of how large the forearms would look with a bio-ware version, but the again, this is just a game...
but I'm glad to see I've already riled the troops :P
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I also thought the point of using alternative materials was to avoid metal detectors, not millimetre wave scanners.
There's also a few descriptions that mention it being lighter, but I'm not sure of the best way to represent that in-game. I'd just use the ceramic / plasteel weapon mod rules from Arsenal.
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Cyberspurs are Wolverine's Claws
Handrazors are Sabretooths Claws
Its ImO OK to fabricate them in Ceramic
I would Houserule them + 500 ¥ / AP -1/ -3 to detect them from MAD /if You Glitch they Shatter, If You critically Glitch they Shatter and you're hit by Splinters)
Boneclaws : Ess 0.25 /Cost 5.000 /Dam STR/2 / AP +1 or +2 /Reach 0 /MAD undetectable) same with Glitch and crit Glitch
with a Housedance
Medicineman
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Just to point out; ceramic knives are already in Arsenal, and don't suffer from not being made of metal.
The most obvious weapon that does suffer for it's materials would be the macuahuitl ... and that's made with obsidian and wood. Maybe they have tighter control specs when creating weapons-grade ceramics in the future.
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-3 to detect them from MAD
???
MAD scanner just straight up can't detect somethink that isn't made of metal.
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Well, you guys all bring up good points. To answer the cyber-scanner comment, yes it would probably
get detected, that's why I was thinking delta-ware. My main thought behind ceramic was that it would be undetectable by MAD scanners (which seem to be more common, from some of the other posts I've seen). I was also thinking these would be used more for a 'surprise' attack. More stabbing than slashing. I wouldn't use them in a fight against a katana, I can't see that ending well.
I hadn't thought of how large the forearms would look with a bio-ware version, but the again, this is just a game...
but I'm glad to see I've already riled the troops :P
I`d agree to use the plasteel/ceramic components Modification from Arsenal to achieve better concealement from detectors. It would maybe cost much more that 500Y thought..but I dot have my books now to confirm...
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-3 to detect them from MAD
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MAD scanner just straight up can't detect somethink that isn't made of metal.
I thought of that too, then realized "but you still have the casing, springs, motors, gears, wiring, etc". There's more to a cyberspur than a chunk of sharpened material.
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Technically, in SR, a Spur is probably made up of the blade, a sheath of plastics and for making it go in and out usually either something like muscle replacement stuff or bio muscles . . nothing else.
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Technically, in SR, a Spur is probably made up of the blade, a sheath of plastics and for making it go in and out usually either something like muscle replacement stuff or bio muscles . . nothing else.
Since it's cyberware, I'd rule out the "bio muscles". Whether or not the Muscle Replacement cyberware (pg 342 of SR4A) has any "metallic" components detectable by MAD is a GM call. Reading the description, I wouldn't rule that it is subject to such detection.
However, muscles are a heck of a lot bulkier a mechanism than a spring/motor/gear system for something like a cyberspur. So I would imagine it to be a more probable mechanism for use.
Ultimately, this is a GM-by-GM call.
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Actually, the Wolverine blades are already in play (granted, they're cyber and not bio):
I know. But I was talking about making a bio version of them. Which just seems like it would be a lot more work.
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-3 to detect them from MAD
???
MAD scanner just straight up can't detect somethink that isn't made of metal.
I thought of that too, then realized "but you still have the casing, springs, motors, gears, wiring, etc". There's more to a cyberspur than a chunk of sharpened material.
If any of those parts contains metal, then there's not much reason for making the spur out of ceramic material.
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I still think the ceramic weapon mod is a good bet. It provides rules for minor, major and total replacement of metal parts.
... wouldn't it apply to cyberweapons anyways, being a weapon mod?
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If you can give me one reason why not, Id reconsidr it, otherwise its absolutely OK for my games...
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Hand Razors are more like Lady Deathstrike (Or, you know, the origin: Molly Millions!).
Sabertooth would be more appropriate then Lady Deathstrike, as the latter is more like bat wings without the wing surfaces...
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Hand Razors are more like Lady Deathstrike (Or, you know, the origin: Molly Millions!).
Sabertooth would be more appropriate then Lady Deathstrike, as the latter is more like bat wings without the wing surfaces...
Or, you know, Molly Millions. :P
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I still think the ceramic weapon mod is a good bet. It provides rules for minor, major and total replacement of metal parts.
... wouldn't it apply to cyberweapons anyways, being a weapon mod?
I actually have a character who has used this as a real mechanic. She has a ceramic handblade implanted in her right forearm. The ceramic part I worked out with my GM to make it look like it was made to be a support for the bone due to a break from her childhood so it would seem less Odd for there to be something there if it was detected. He wasn't sure at first, but once I explained that the rules for ceramic replacement aren't specified to only guns and that if ceramic knives already exist it would make sense that this would be possible to some extent for any cyberware he agreed. It's still a fully functional handblade, but to anyone looking via a scanner it just shows up as medical procedure that makes since and is listed on her fake SIN. Sure someone with a cyberware scanner would be like wait a second.... but otherwise no MAD would see it or care.