Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: swliner on <05-05-11/1208:49>
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Even today's Monsanto and ConAgra would probably be A level MegaCorps. I'm assuming that (based on the ubiquity of soy based products) they or whoever subsumed their function switched from corn to soy at some point. I guess my question is: Are they still around? Were they bought out by a AAA, and if so, who? The only one that really makes sense is Aztechnology, especially since the UCAS held on to much of the corn belt, and they have a decent working relationship with them. With them I can even imagine a renewal of the 'sacrifice a virgin to ensure a good harvest' tradition. But of course that's all just extrapolation.
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If Archer-Daniels-Midland were a Sixth World Company, they'd be a AAA. Trying to figure out what happened to modern companies and how they turned into Shadowrun companies will drive you up the wall. Assume the timeline split around 1989 and call it a day.
The Azzies have a good chuck of the worlds foodstuffs, but Evo, Horizon, Renraku and all of the rest have as least some kind of food distribution and development in their portfolio.
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I guess I wasn't really asking what happened to those companies specifically, I was (clumsily) trying to ask who filled their role in the Sixth World.
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Every Mega has some interest in food. No matter what, people have to eat, and thus it's good business.
S-K owns a Ketchup Factory in every major city, for instance. Although that might be because we are crunchy and good with ketchup... :P
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just as Aztech owns Heineken. This alone shows that they have no taste at all. :)
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Angola Correctional Agriculture- chipped chain gangs in the CAS, growing real food.
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Actually, one of the major economic strengths the Native-American Nations has is that it controls so much farmland. Of course, some of it is Frankenfood, grown in the arctic areas of Former Canada, but it's a major strength nonetheless.
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There are a few companies mentioned in Augments: Yakashima and Meridional Agronomics. They are AAs. Proteus also does sea food.
EDIT: Zeta-ImpChem owns Nestlé.
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Mmm mmm good krill burgers. Just needs some S-K Ketchup.
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Heh, in the Sixth World, does Nestle even have to bother with the whole 'non-slave labor' thing anymore?
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Heh, in the Sixth World, does Nestle even have to bother with the whole 'non-slave labor' thing anymore?
Do any of the Corps?
It's part of the Corporate Court charter that Unions are to be crushed. Hard.
And if you want to do business with any of the AAA-Level Corporations, you can't allow them in your country either.
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I just couldn't stop myself when I saw this topic. May it bring about some campaign ideas.
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"Oh, man, REAL MEAT!" "You know where that..." "Real. Meat. Shut up now."
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Yeah, but that's cutting into Tanamous' employee benefits package.
I don't know, speaking.about crushing unions and everything just reminds me that every time I think about economics, it's so circular and twisty it makes my head hurt. Wonder if that's available as a knowsoft?
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One thing that you will probably hear more about is skyfarms (Sixth World Almanac pg. 122, Neo Tokyo 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence). These 30-story buildings are massive investments and as such probably owned exclusively by AAA corps. Shortening up the supply chain, year round crop production all in a controlled environment circumventing pestilence, crop disease, and unfavorable weather. This type of structure would probably be used for smaller domesticated animals as well, chickens, turkeys...maybe as large as pigs or sheep. Cattle would still probably be an outdoor critter and more than likely the vast majority of that would reside with the Sioux Nation and the USCAS (at least in North America).
The RL fixation with corn based ethanol will probably give way to something that is not a 1 to 1 energy swap. Personally, I envision (hope) that the polywell fusor becomes the dominant form of electrical generation. If EMC2 Fusion Development Corp research is on track they should have completed testing of the WB8 at the end of April. The US Navy is funding it now and has classified the program. If it works as hoped, this power source should displace, coal, gas, and nuclear power plants in short order. And yes, I am placing a huge amount of faith/hope that it does precisely that. Combined with graphene/carbon nanotubes which have demonstrated properties of room temp superconductivity and potential for significantly improved batteries...I believe that energy production will be a vastly different beast then has been previously theorized in Shadowrun. The real downside to electrical vehicles today has been the weight of the lithium ion batteries. Researchers at MIT believe that a carbon nanotube battery weighing 9 lbs could deliver as much electricity as the 900 lbs of litium ion batteries in the Tesla Roadster. Very exciting stuff...at least to me.
Energy talk may seem misplaced when in a thread discussing food but the two cannot be thought of as different topics. The only way to make skyfarms work is the existance of cheap and plentiful electricity. :)
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*Smacks my sweaty forehead* Food comes from Stuffer Shack and other stores! Duh! ;D
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MMMMM soy burrito, now with krill filling. Just heat, add sauce, and eat.
*warning explosive diarrhea common in 1/4 of the population. do not mix sauce with mentos freshmaker*
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You know, it's strange...I like Tofu. I just pigged out on Tofu skin junkfood. It's always been kind of strange to read about it as something horrible, or as a sign of dystopia. Is it really that reviled?
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I love soybeans, eat em all the time.
Krill however...hmmm.
I dunno if Tofu is gross as most people make out. I can't say I've ever had any but I've heard that it really absorbs the flavor of what you cook it with.
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You know, it's strange, I don't usually eat actual soybeans. I when I hear sculpt, I always think of tofu, but you could probably do it with ground soybeans.
Man...I really want a Soy Processing Unit. Why can't I live in the future now, damn it!
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I love soybeans, eat em all the time.
Krill however...hmmm.
I dunno if Tofu is gross as most people make out. I can't say I've ever had any but I've heard that it really absorbs the flavor of what you cook it with.
Tofu on its own is actually very bland, and tends to take on the flavor of what you cook it in/with. I enjoy tofu myself, either in a nice broth or cooked in a little oil and maybe with a chili sauce. I think the people who don't like it probably are not put off so much by the flavor as much by the texture. It basically is soybean jello. That kind of freaks people out if they have been raised on roast and potatoes, but there are far stranger things that people eat on this earth to try to stay fed.
As far as the sixth world, lower cost foods are probably raised as much in tanks as they are in fields. Krill, fungus based protiens, algie and kelp, etc, are produced in tanks farms. Soy and corn would likely still be major field crops. Corn already is raised mosly for processing rather than consumption as a fresh vegtable. It is used to make sweeteners, thickening agents, in animal feed, as oil, and increasingly for industrial uses like fuel. Quinoa might take on more importance because like soy its a complete protien and fairly high in protien. Quinoa is also altitude and temperature resistant, so its likely to be grown in places where other crops don't do well.
Real fresh food starts to show up sporadically in middle lifestyle, but to be eating fresh veggies and real meat with most meals is something for High lifestyle or better. Still, that middle manager probably can afford a cup real coffee on sunday, an orange or some real eggs now and again for breakfast, and has a steak on his birthday.
As others in this thread have said, i think all the AAA corps would have at least some interest in food production. Its the one product that everybody needs no matter what.
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My guess would be the Corporations.
Corps want nothing but money (nothing new, right?). This leads them to grabbing up any fields that'll nab some cash: Chemical, Automotive, and the Food Industries, to name a few.
Controlling the food means you've got a steady supply of income. Food is a vital resource that any (Meta)Human needs; the Corps realize this. They've got special farms devoted to this, as well as the Controlled-Environment Farms and Arctic Farms that others mentioned. Again, as others mentioned, certain products may need to be imported (or created if not available).
That's just my idea, though... it could be FAR greater than that.
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Food comes from where it's always come from, honestly: Farms.
Now, in North America, most of the farm land is owned by the Native American Nations, with the Megacorporations working on Frankenfoods that will grow in harsher and harder conditions (Wheat in the Arctic Circle!). The focus on cheap food is due to the economic status of the majority of the people in the Sixth World. Remember: The Middle Class is almost gone. You have Low Class, Wageslaves (Who are Lower Class in nice apartments), and High Class as the majority (With High Class being the minority of that majority who hold the power.).
It also depends on where you live. Seattle probably has some decent prices on seafood, but their other real food prices are insane due to the political situation between the UCAS and the NAN. In the NAN, cheap(er) real food.
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I've been thinking about that as a backstory, actually. Justifies the Homegrown Farming quality; make a side living growing real food.
Makes an interesting and really...historical-ish motivation; "Crops failed, turning bandit need a job."
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Part of my backstory for Nas (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=2964.0) is that he's from one of the few remaining Family-Owned Farms in Texas. It's right on the border with Aztlan, so it's not exactly prime real estate for a Mega to want. But there's an aquifer under the land and the soil is good, so they make a decent enough living, despite having to sell to the Megas at the Corporations rates.
This is why he got into NASCAR racing, actually. He wanted more than to just "Get By", while his brother is more than happy to. Also, Nas was and is a horrible shot, which did not endear him to the rest of the family considering that "The enemy is really at the gates", not to mention being the only Elf in the family...
It's, complicated.
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Once you can drop algae based farming for food and fuel where ever you want, you really don't much of a need for classical field-based farming. Aside from small markets for people that really want and can pay for organic, I don't see them being able to compete and stay in business.
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I love soybeans, eat em all the time.
Krill however...hmmm.
I dunno if Tofu is gross as most people make out. I can't say I've ever had any but I've heard that it really absorbs the flavor of what you cook it with.
Tofu on its own is actually very bland, and tends to take on the flavor of what you cook it in/with. I enjoy tofu myself, either in a nice broth or cooked in a little oil and maybe with a chili sauce. I think the people who don't like it probably are not put off so much by the flavor as much by the texture. It basically is soybean jello. That kind of freaks people out if they have been raised on roast and potatoes, but there are far stranger things that people eat on this earth to try to stay fed.
I eat Tofu all the time, is common in Chinese dishes. Maybe Australians eat more chinese food then Americans? I haven't had a roast in... oh... 10 some years, but I grab a steak maybe two to three times a week. Hmm... used have a lot of roast as a kid, but doesn't seem as common a dish anymore. Tofu is tasty as... the dish that its in. You can have frozen tofu, which has larger air pockets for extra absorbtion, silky tofu, hard tofu and more. Yummy :). Except for missing fresh fruit, I think that I could survive very confortably in the 6th world.
Hmm... I think Aztechnology should be the largest food producer, but many other AA and A corps would be involved in food production. Maybe Proteus? Don't know much about them though. Money is that the NAN nations have their own local real food production and the the availability of 'real' food would vary a great deal around the world. Can't imagine the poor nations have the logistics to import masses of processed food for example, and that it is more logicaly that the more screwed up areas grow there on food.
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The Organic Market is growing in the 2070s, with a big boost in advertising from Horizon, and a growing number of people developing allergies to Soy. Add to that Frankenfoods that can be grown in the Arctic and Antarctic...
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Now, in North America, most of the farm land is owned by the Native American Nations
I am going to disagree (unofficially) with that point of view. The best farming land is pretty much east of the Sioux/UCAS border. The vast majority of the land out west is under irrigation or dry land farming. You just don't see the crop yields that you do further east. Of course...if I am missing canon info stating that magic has altered weather patterns for the western section of North America then obviously my opinion is moot.
Field farming strikes me as being important though for the simple fact that livestock need feed and I don't think that skyfarms would be able to accomodate that.
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After the Great Ghost Dance, weather patterns have gone right nutbar.
The Farmer's Almanac people went completely and irreversibly insane.
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I could certainly see that as a valid interpretation. ;)
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The World According to Monsanto is a good documentary about the rise of a corp in our reality that focuses on genetically altered crops, livestock, feed for said livestock and crops, and pesticide for their crops. They have cornered the market for what they do. Creepily so.
It is a good one to check out for fun SR food runs. Poisoning a seaweed farm off of the sound near Seattle may give them some hard cred, but some digging reveals who they are denying the food from: Horizon's Help A Child foundation. How do people run against Horizon?
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Same reason that people run FOR AZT.
The Almighty Nuyen.
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http://www.lifenews.com/2011/03/29/company-uses-fetal-cells-from-abortions-for-artificial-flavors/
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/05/25/pro-life-groups-boycott-pepsi-for-using-aborted-fetal-cell-lines/
Pepsi Green.
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http://www.lifenews.com/2011/03/29/company-uses-fetal-cells-from-abortions-for-artificial-flavors/
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/05/25/pro-life-groups-boycott-pepsi-for-using-aborted-fetal-cell-lines/
Pepsi Green.
You know...ignorance is bliss. Going to be ill now. :o
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I don't know, may be true, may not.
IIRC, there was a major rebellion against serving in the military of English-held/supported parts of a few Islamic countries. Some propagandists put out the word that they used Pig Fat to do so, and... The truth was Vegetable Oil, BTW.
Then again, big evil corporation that owns Pepsi, wouldn't put it past them. :P
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I heard it was Hindus and cow fat in the wrapper for the bullets.
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I heard it was Hindus and cow fat in the wrapper for the bullets.
I think there's a few versions of the story. Which probably depends on where they were trying to get the British out.
Still doesn't change the fact that they used vegetable oil.
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Short answer: Aztechnology is the main purveyor of consumer goods and foodstuffs. Their reputation is a little schizophrenic: The shadows know them to be super-evil-power-hungry baby killers, while Joe and Jane Public know them as the friendly-neighborhood Stuffer Shack owners who give to children's charities and help orphan dolphins find a home.
I kid you not. The public has even voted them "Friendliest Mega-Corp" many times in polls.
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why do you think they have the biggest PR department of all the megas (maybe except Horizon).
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And considering that PR is Horizon's original mode of business, whereas AZT is originally an agricultural company...
Well, drug growing is a form of agriculture.
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If your a ghoul you can get real food on any street or go to your local Tamanous contact.
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If your a ghoul you can get real food on any street or go to your local Tamanous contact.
"Ghoul Cab, you are what we eat!"
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And Ray already comes in Can!
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I'm smokey maple flavored as well.
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Wasn't Aztechnologya Big Agra Corp (among other things?)
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ORO, the company that would turn into Aztechnology, was a front for laundering money by NarcoTerrorist groups out Mexico and the northern part of South America.
Then magic came back.
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ORO, the company that would turn into Aztechnology, was a front for laundering money by NarcoTerrorist groups out Mexico and the northern part of South America.
Then magic came back.
Somethings never change.
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ORO, the company that would turn into Aztechnology, was a front for laundering money by NarcoTerrorist groups out Mexico and the northern part of South America.
Then magic came back.
Somethings never change.
You got it. The Aztlan Sourecebook has the number one rule about drug dealers in the country being: "There aren't any. Aztechnology does not like the competition."
It was also a major headache in Denver. Something over the counter was outright illegal to even think about having in the UCAS, despite it being only a block away or some such thing.
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Now, in North America, most of the farm land is owned by the Native American Nations, with the Megacorporations working on Frankenfoods that will grow in harsher and harder conditions (Wheat in the Arctic Circle!).
I ran across a reference like this in Target: UCAS and decided to do a little digging and according various sites on crop production in the US, if climate stayed relatively stable, then the UCAS still retains the lions share of staple crops. Now I couldhave missed something in SR about climate change which would most assuredly throw off the center of production.
Corn:
Corn is the largest U.S. crop, in terms of both volume and value. The states of Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska and Minnesota account for more than 50 percent of U.S. corn production. Other major corn-producing states include Indiana, Wisconsin, South Dakota, Michigan, Missouri, Kansas, Ohio and Kentucky. Source: www.grains.org/corn
Midwest states (# acres planted)
IL 13.2 million
IN 6.6 million
IA 14.3 million
KS 3.7 million
MI 2.5 million
MN 8.2 million
MO 3.5 million
NE 9.1 million
ND 2.5 million
OH 4.0 million
SD 5.0 million
WI 4.05 million
Source: http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/corn/showitem.php?id=47
Wheat:
Top Ten Wheat states (1000s of bushels)
1. N. Dakota 234,600
2. Minnesota 79,200
3. Montana 65,550
4. S. Dakota 64,350
5. Idaho 33,320
6. Washington 25,830
7. Oregon 5,250
8. Colorado 3,168
9. Utah 784
10. Wisconsin 360
Source: www.worc.org/userfiles/WORCproductionfactsheet.pdf
Soybeans:
Soybean production, top five States, 2010 (estimated):
IA - 496 million bushels
IL – 466 million bushels
MN - 329 million bushels
NE - 268 million bushels
IN - 259 million bushels
Source: http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/soybeancoverage.htm
Also much of the grain producing areas of Canada, namely AB, ON and MB (the Manitoba Ag Initiatives website has very nice maps) lay within UCAS boundaries.
I didn't post stats for each of the border states (ND, SD, NE, KA) as I'd have to delve deeper and I figured there are that many farm junkies on this board, if I assumed inccorectly give me a bit of time and I can work something up.
EDIT: If people were interested I could dig up numbers on livestock as well.
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I've been thinking about that as a backstory, actually. Justifies the Homegrown Farming quality; make a side living growing real food.
Makes an interesting and really...historical-ish motivation; "Crops failed, turning bandit need a job."
Throw in a little magical assistance and you've got a very nice business, of course the elves got the prime real estate for farming in the Northwest (Willamette Valley). ;)
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I've been thinking about that as a backstory, actually. Justifies the Homegrown Farming quality; make a side living growing real food.
Makes an interesting and really...historical-ish motivation; "Crops failed, turning bandit need a job."
Throw in a little magical assistance and you've got a very nice business, of course the elves got the prime real estate for farming in the Northwest (Willamette Valley). ;)
Also, as I've mentioned, "Frankenfood" that allows Wheat to grow in the arctic circle and such, which can extend the growing area of what was originally thought to be worthless land for farming.
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I've been thinking about that as a backstory, actually. Justifies the Homegrown Farming quality; make a side living growing real food.
Makes an interesting and really...historical-ish motivation; "Crops failed, turning bandit need a job."
Throw in a little magical assistance and you've got a very nice business, of course the elves got the prime real estate for farming in the Northwest (Willamette Valley). ;)
Also, as I've mentioned, "Frankenfood" that allows Wheat to grow in the arctic circle and such, which can extend the growing area of what was originally thought to be worthless land for farming.
Diving into that right now.
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I've been thinking about that as a backstory, actually. Justifies the Homegrown Farming quality; make a side living growing real food.
Makes an interesting and really...historical-ish motivation; "Crops failed, turning bandit need a job."
Throw in a little magical assistance and you've got a very nice business, of course the elves got the prime real estate for farming in the Northwest (Willamette Valley). ;)
Also, as I've mentioned, "Frankenfood" that allows Wheat to grow in the arctic circle and such, which can extend the growing area of what was originally thought to be worthless land for farming.
Diving into that right now.
Ah GM foods. Also if you take into account what is being theorized and worked on right now, there may very well be large Agri-Pods in space that could supplement Earthbound food production.
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Orbital food would likely still be a few decades off in the 2070s. They're still rebuilding the Space Network after Crash 2.0 when a lot of orbital assets did the Colony Drop thing... :(
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Good thread. Shadowrun does a lot better than most settings in the logistics of how things work. This is an interesting line of inquiry, because, as many here and elsewhere have said, he who controls the victuals has your balls in a vice. Everybody's gotta eat.
Some of the agritech is hinted at in the books or given a short once over. Its not terribly exciting and is of little use to shadowrunners, so they skip it mostly. But from what I understand, there are three major forces in agriculture in the Sixth World.
The corporations pushing heavily processed soy/tofu/krill/mycoprotein junk that is cheap to produce in as an industrial a way as possible.
More niche corps who still produce 'real food', aka corn, wheat, livestock for meat, etc. Stuff we're used to thinking of as food. Though we all eat the above as well.
Ecoconscious groups and corporations that produce 'real real food', organics and green-produced foodstuffs. Little or no pesticides, no GM crops, etc.
Most people in the civilized parts of the Sixth World eat mostly if not all of the first. Crap from Stuffer Shack. Chips and sauces, fried sticks of unidentifiable but tasty microwaved stuff. Jugs of totally artificial and brightly colored 'drink'. Crap. Filler calories with artificial flavorings and inserted nutritional content. Cheap to mass produce. They grow mycoprotein and krill in huge aquacultures and tanks. Soybeans are heavily genemodded for huge yields in industrial agricultural centers. The word 'farm' does not apply.
The second is more like the agribusiness of today. GM crops and livestock, industrial feed lots and tons of pesticides and so forth. Still recognizably food though, as opposed to raw mycoprotein. Dominated by the specialist agri-corps who sell to the upper class who can afford actual food.
The eco-conscious eater eats organic, non-GM foods and by nature probably has as little to do with the agri-corps as possible. There's a real movement in agriculture today to focus more on this. Smaller and family farms can survive if they go with a business model that integrates more biodiversity of crop types and diverse lineages of crops. Necessitates a much more labor intensive method of farming, as you can't design your farm around the huge combine harvesters and irrigation methods that current industrial farms use. Also translates into higher prices for the food you produce.
The poor eat the first, the rich the second, and the rich and green eat the last. The second and third overlap a bit depending on how organic the end product is. I believe the corps dominate the first and second, both to feed the masses and the upper class, and the third is people trying to break free of the cycle. I would assume the NAN has a lot more of the organic farming going on, but they still control huge amounts of farmland and have much lower populations than the UCAS and CAS. They must have plenty of large scale agriculture, most likely for export. The Azzies are supposed to dominate agriculture in North America, and possibly most of South America too.
I wanna know how Amazonians eat. The whole country, besides Metropole and Rio, are left to go back to jungle? What the hell do 50 million city dwellers eat?
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Well, the Ghouls eat the other residents of the city. :P
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Well they would. I had a concept for a butcher and cook who got ghoulified and Awakened. He becomes a crazy adept hitman, wielding weapon focus monomolecular cleavers. Carves up metahumans and then cooks up some delicious steaks for his ghoul buddies. I named him Butcher Bill.
After rereading Sixth World Almanac, there are two big farming cities in Amazonia who supply a lot of the food. Also, Hualpa's a dick. Every sapient being gets rights and everything so bloody eco friendly. All life is sacred...except for poor metahumans in Metropole's slums. They can rot.
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Not Butcher Pete (http://youtu.be/t5xd2HFIIYU)?
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"Oh, man, REAL MEAT!" "You know where that..." "Real. Meat. Shut up now."
Lenina Huxley: [Spartan encounters a burger grill in the underground world] Just don't ask them where the meat comes from.
John Spartan: Huxley, what's that supposed to mean?
Lenina Huxley: Do you see any cows around here, detective?
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Exactly.
My Dog Shaman is working on a recipe for Alley Cat A La Tang.
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"Oh, man, REAL MEAT!" "You know where that..." "Real. Meat. Shut up now."
Lenina Huxley: [Spartan encounters a burger grill in the underground world] Just don't ask them where the meat comes from.
John Spartan: Huxley, what's that supposed to mean?
Lenina Huxley: Do you see any cows around here, detective?
They implied that it was rat though, not human. Although, don't eat the street vendor food at the Meat Market...
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Mr. And Mrs. Ratt's Rat On A Stick Stand in Touristville is pretty safe, however. ;D
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They didn't imply. The vendor flat out said "rat" in spanish.
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I'm just going to put this link right over here ...
http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2011/06/friday-free-for-all-japanese-scientists-invent-poop-steaks
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I'm just going to put this link right over here ...
http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2011/06/friday-free-for-all-japanese-scientists-invent-poop-steaks
Oh $Deity.
"Eat recycled food: It's good for the environment and OK for you!"
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On a slightly differernt tack- In a weird way I think the "junk" food of the 6th world might be somewhat healthy. If its all make of soy, krill, algae, etc. It may be genetically engeneered to hades and back, but those chips from stuffer shack are high in protien, have a surprising amount of fiber, and probably have a good dose of micronutrients from the special algaes they tank farm for food stock blends. You would still want to eat a real apple or orange once in a while if you could afford it, but overall I think the stuffer shack diet would be high protien, moderate carb, adequate fiber, and low in saturated fats as the only real animal protien you get are from incredibly tiny shrimp. You certainly aren't getting any real dairy untill you hit a fairly high lifestyle. Its probably fairly filling as well with the protien and fiber content. In alot of ways I think it would be healthier than the fast food junk many people eat now.
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Read "Attitude" to find out about how Aztechnology makes "Food-Like Substances", AKA: "Stuffers".
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Read "Attitude" to find out about how Aztechnology makes "Food-Like Substances", AKA: "Stuffers".
I think that's more of an exaggeration (but not far from the truth). Food is mentioned in Running Wild Pg 11, Runners Companion Pg 150 , Corporate Guide pg 36, as well as already stated 6th world almanac.
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*Shrugs* All I know is that IRL cheap food is filled with additives that are not healthy for you to increase the flavor. Some of them aren't even artificial.
With extraterritorial corporations that don't even need to disclose dietary information on their products, that's probably a lot, lot worse.
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*Runners walk up behind ghoul. Ghoul turns around revealing he is eating Azzie's newest line of stuffers.* Hey! I thought ghouls could only eat meta meat! *ghoul blinks* I am! Jerk...