Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Blond Goth Girl on <07-22-11/1732:36>
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How do you schedule your games? What type of notification is considered acceptable? Is it to much to ask for a game schedule?
Background: I’m a homeowner who works full time with overtime a plenty and an aspiring writer on the side so time is precious to me. For the game I GM, we meet two non-consecutive Sundays a month that are set according to GM/player schedules. Basically, I look at a calendar and eliminate holidays and known busy days and publish game dates for three months in advance. If there are conflicts, we reschedule to even a Saturday if need be with a majority rule motto but never last minute. I have a yahoo group with an updated calendar that generates two reminders per session (6 days in advance and 1 day in advance) and emails to the group. Basically, I respect folks’ time and expect the same in return.
That being said if there is a weekly schedule or some other set fixed schedule you don’t have to tell me twice.
Well, a friend is running a game that involves me and a couple of my SR players so it was decided that he would run it two weekends a month that didn’t conflict with my game. We met, that was said, my game met the following week with one date that needed to be firmed up for that month. We met and firmed up the dates so I sent the email with three months of my game dates the following day to the GM. I got no response at all. That lead me to believe there was no game plus this person had flaked in the past. Apparently, there was a game. I found that out after the game date.
When I spoke another player who helps out with that game, they acted like I expected far too much in asking for an email response and/or a list of game dates (at least for a couple weeks) in advance because that person was far too busy to plan it. The GM has the same situation as I do.
IMHO – If a GM cannot take five minutes out of their week to set game dates for at least a month in advance, maybe they shouldn’t GM. Yes, I realize that things can come up to cause someone to cancel but it shouldn’t be a habit.
Planning the adventure/session takes far longer than a five minute schedule planning.
Just curious as to how everyone else runs their schedule.
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Sadly, this has always been a huge problem for me, so I have no answers for you.
Scheduling a regular weekly gaming date has been the impossible dream for me for many, many years. Now that my girlfriend of five years (and most-regular PC) has moved back home to Colorado, it's going to be even harder for me to get in touch with the few players I have left.
All of them are flightly, elusive, and disproportionately 'busy' for the amount of stuff they actually do. And with my social anxiety, just calling to ask someone to schedule a game is difficult for me. My fear of rejection is in pathological overdrive compared to a normal human, and the rejections tend to come fast and furious.
I have never in my life ever had enough Shadowrun. (I don't expect the 24 hours of it I'm GMing at Gencon to scratch the itch either. It's not that it's not enough SR, I just genuinely prefer playing with my friends.)
tl;dr my friends are jerks, i have too much free time, and i have hundreds of times more SR adventures and campaigns planned or prepared than I will ever be able to run for the people I'd like to play them with. I definitely feel your pain; scheduling's a bitch.
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Somehow, for DnD I managed to get into a huge meetup group, so I had a game set in stone every Saturday at the same time in the same store for about 18 months. 3 Saturdays were my ongoing, fly by the seat of the pants campaign, 1 was the monthly meetup (when I'd actually have a chance to play instead of DM).
Somehow for Shadowrun it's touch and go for every get together, but we still manage to get a lot scheduled. Hopefully the group I play in will be out of Africa after a push to finish this section of Dusk in two all but back to back sessions. The group I'm running things are a little more ginger, there's some real life stuff going on in one of the player's (a good friend to all of us) real life that take precedence over rolling dice and having laughs for the next week and change, maybe longer.
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I run that first game that Onion Man was talking about. I would love it if someone else could handle the scheduling, but it usually falls on the GM.
We have a basic understanding that since most Fridays are open for most of us, we will probably be meeting on a Friday. Over group emails, we discuss when the next workable Friday is. We've managed to get together almost twice a month, for the most part. We've played a couple off-days (Thursdays and maybe 1 Saturday?) since we started in February. For the most part, we get a schedule set for our next game at least one week in advance, but we start discussing about 2 weeks out usually.
It's crazy because I am a student with a 1 year old and an overworked wife (an RN and a grad student), and one of the players is in Seminary, and another one is in nursing school. Luckily, the other three were usually good for Fridays. I couldn't pull off the kind of organizational biz that Goth Girl is doing, largely because I'm defaulting on logic to use my computer. Thankfully, I have a respectable default pool. If I were Goth Girl's real-life GM, I might give her a threshold of 2 for her auto-emailing scheme. Unfortunately, I cannot reliably achieve that total, even with my considerable default pool. But I digress (Note the flexing of my vocabulary. "Digress" is at least a LOG 4 word.)
The crux (LOG 5) of this post is simply this: As long as everyone knows when the game is, and there's a general understanding that plans are solid within about a week of the game, there should be no problem
A big part of why this system works for us is that we try to set days aside (just in case) for about 2-3 weeks ahead of time. Sometimes it won't be until 3-4 days before hand that we'll know for sure when start time is, but the tentative plans were already in place. With this many grown-ups trying to do something at the same time, sometimes you have to make those last-minute shifts. The nice thing about this system is that I don't think we've had one session where we were short any players, and we meet fairly regularly.
Also, as soon as we know that a day will not work, that gets emailed immediately. So far, I've had no complaints about the way we schedule games, even though it's a little chaotic.
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Somehow, for DnD I managed to get into a huge meetup group, so I had a game set in stone every Saturday at the same time in the same store for about 18 months. 3 Saturdays were my ongoing, fly by the seat of the pants campaign, 1 was the monthly meetup (when I'd actually have a chance to play instead of DM).
*counts*
That's four weeks a month. Nice.
I'd be a much happier person all around if I could play SR once every week.
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Somehow, for DnD I managed to get into a huge meetup group, so I had a game set in stone every Saturday at the same time in the same store for about 18 months. 3 Saturdays were my ongoing, fly by the seat of the pants campaign, 1 was the monthly meetup (when I'd actually have a chance to play instead of DM).
*counts*
That's four weeks a month. Nice.
I'd be a much happier person all around if I could play SR once every week.
Somrtimes 5 :D
Too bad PHB3 had to officially tip D&D into the, beyond repair category of games.
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I defer all discussion of D&D and its foibles to Frank Trollman and company on The Gaming Den anyway. (Whatever else you might say about them, they're good at dissecting D&D. Which I guess is a bit like being really good at dissecting frogs; what's the point?)
Anyway, don't you kids know that stuff causes cancer anyway? :P
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How do you schedule your games? What type of notification is considered acceptable? Is it to much to ask for a game schedule?
Background: I’m a homeowner who works full time with overtime a plenty and an aspiring writer on the side so time is precious to me. For the game I GM, we meet two non-consecutive Sundays a month that are set according to GM/player schedules. Basically, I look at a calendar and eliminate holidays and known busy days and publish game dates for three months in advance. If there are conflicts, we reschedule to even a Saturday if need be with a majority rule motto but never last minute. I have a yahoo group with an updated calendar that generates two reminders per session (6 days in advance and 1 day in advance) and emails to the group. Basically, I respect folks’ time and expect the same in return.
That being said if there is a weekly schedule or some other set fixed schedule you don’t have to tell me twice.
Well, a friend is running a game that involves me and a couple of my SR players so it was decided that he would run it two weekends a month that didn’t conflict with my game. We met, that was said, my game met the following week with one date that needed to be firmed up for that month. We met and firmed up the dates so I sent the email with three months of my game dates the following day to the GM. I got no response at all. That lead me to believe there was no game plus this person had flaked in the past. Apparently, there was a game. I found that out after the game date.
When I spoke another player who helps out with that game, they acted like I expected far too much in asking for an email response and/or a list of game dates (at least for a couple weeks) in advance because that person was far too busy to plan it. The GM has the same situation as I do.
IMHO – If a GM cannot take five minutes out of their week to set game dates for at least a month in advance, maybe they shouldn’t GM. Yes, I realize that things can come up to cause someone to cancel but it shouldn’t be a habit.
Planning the adventure/session takes far longer than a five minute schedule planning.
Just curious as to how everyone else runs their schedule.
Basically you are asking that to act like adults with a bit our professionalism- respond to communication, make commitments, etc. Thats more than most of the hairless monkeys on this planet are capable of. especially gamers. Sad but true.
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My group has a pretty set schedule as I'm a graduate student, another person is a fulltime wageslave, another is the owner of the game store we play in....My game is every other Sunday afternoon, alternated by a different friend's Hero System game. We do the same thing on Saturday nights with games....my bf runs a D&D game one week, with the other Saturday being something else (it was Pathfinder, but it looks like I'll actually get to play Shadowrun).
YMMV though...I'm a pretty schedule-oriented person (especially with grad school), and my group seems to appreciate the schedule as well.
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The folks in my gaming group have a variety of semi-flexible or inflexible schedules, so we have to hammer out what regular night SR games are on, as well as keep each other updated when schedule conflicts come up in advance. On the plus side, we've been managing to have weekly game sessions for SR for some months now.
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I've found that most of the scheduling problems I've had in the past result from 1 PC always being absent. Now a continuation without a person can be filled by a good NPC and you could always play it off like they got sick or some junk. Consistent abscence however is something that holds the entire group back.
I can't say that I know from a GM point of view what to do but from a PC point of view peer pressure works wonders.
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Yeah - Absence drives me nuts if its last minute. Continued absence means that someone just doesn't have time to game so I ask them why bother?
Seeing how anal I am regarding scheduling as a GM, I'm not sure why anyone would think that as a player I wouldn't expect some assemblage of a schedule.
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I set a scheduled time typically once every two weeks and everyone knows and understands it's GAME TIME. I brow beat, tease, harass (in a semi-friendly way), cajole, etc. all my players to make sure they don't miss games.
I set my expectation that unless it is a true emergency that they need to show up. It isn't a job, but it is a group of people who are all relying on you to be there so that they can have a good game experience. That doesn't mean that vacations, family visits, conferences, etc. don't occasionally interfere but I really try and have people schedule as best they can around the game.
I expect a good deal of notification if players have to cancel for other plans. If they don't, they know they can expect a penalty. Typically that is a karma hit, but it can also be a reputation hit as the character drops out of the run in the middle or even a increased frequency of negative quality effects. The severity increases with the shortness of notification and/or the lameness of the excuse.
I know that a penalty based system seems like we are back in 3rd grade but honestly it seems to work. No one wants their character to suffer so they make sure it is really important before they miss out.
Of course I understand when there is a real reason to miss out, it happens. But it is very reasonable to expect people to make and keep a schedule and notify you in advance when they have to miss.
@Neurosis - If you and your girl are back in CO and are looking for a group or a player hit me up. I am in Northern CO and at least we could meet up in a place you feel comfortable in and see if our personalities mesh enough to want to game together.
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If you're in Colorado Springs, Dragon and Dragoons in a great store.
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She's in CO with her family for the foreseeable future, but I'm still in "upstate" (not really) New York. It sucks.. but is totally necessary for real world reasons.
Thank you for the offer, though.
I haven't been to Dragons & Dragoons but I have been to this place in Cherry Creek, I can't remember the name of it. The Wizard's Chest? Something like that.
It's weird that I've actually visited all of the locations in and around Denver where the first 4E season of SR Missions took place.
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I think this hardcore attitude about showing up to every session may be one of the leading contributing factors to the decline of roleplaying as a hobby. How can newer players get into a game once it transcends being simply a game and becomes a hard commitment? Guys, it's a game, and we're talking about it like it's a budget meeting or something. We're all grown-ups and things come up. I've missed gaming sessions just because I was too tired to play, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No actual negative consequences will result from me missing a game. The game will be different that night, but that's it.
That being said, I've never been a habitual absentee from gaming, and I usually motion to drop habitual absentees from my gaming groups. There's a line between "life happens" and "I'll show up for about half the games if I feel like it." Sometimes, though, life happens at the last second.
Here's the way I do it. If someone doesn't show up to a session that all have already committed to, we have an understanding that their character will be played by another player. The receive no karma for the run, their characters cannot use edge for any reason in their absence (just started this one, but it hasn't come up yet), and if they die they die. That's incentive enough. We don't need to concoct an appropriate punishment, rationalize a PC's absence in mid-run, fill a role left vacant by a missing player, etc. The best part is that the game goes on as scheduled, and the negative effects on the other players are minimized. Isn't that the whole idea? This solution works to solve the problem created by the absent player rather than to seek retribution for the problem that was created (for deterrent purposes or otherwise). Plus, there is a deterrent effect to not controlling your own character (especially if edge is out). It's not like they're skipping out on babysitting your kids or something. They just didn't come to game night. Now sure, if it's a regular thing, then the PC will not be joining the next run and you can start looking for a new player.
I don't think we can talk about respecting schedules if we are going to demand explanations for absences, and impose punishments if said explanations are found to be inadequate. Tell them when the game is, let them know that if they don't show up their character is in the same danger with no chance for a karma reward, and play the game.
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+1 nojose
Denver Doc: I would almost certainly drop out of a game you ran. As soon as you start talking about tweaking game mechanics to punish players for not attending a game (something most of us do to roll some dice while we have some laughs with friends), you're not talking about a cooperative exercise anymore, you've made it GM v. PCs and announced that you'll change the rules if you feel like it. Bad form.
Note: I ahve NEVER dropped out of a gaming group before. Not even the group nojose and I were in for RIFTS where the GM was seriously and specifically killing my characters off, deus ex machina, to entertain his girlfriend who didn't like me.
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to entertain his girlfriend who didn't like me
Not me. There would have been some very hurt feelings before that was over.
Gotta agree with the last two. This is supposed to be fun. When it starts altering your RL attitudes, it's time to put it away for a little while. I'll be honest, you start hounding me with emails, I'll answer once to make sure we're on the same page, then you won't get another response from me. And If I'm really ticked, I may be late just to be an ***hole.
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Note: I ahve NEVER dropped out of a gaming group before. Not even the group nojose and I were in for RIFTS where the GM was seriously and specifically killing my characters off, deus ex machina, to entertain his girlfriend who didn't like me.
Yeah, but in spite of the orks that switched from ICBM's to waterguns the moment you changed into a vampire (yes, that's intercontinental ballistic missiles), and the bug that crawled into another character's ear and ate your brain because you listened at a door, you got the last laugh.
You should post your duffel-bag-of-grenades story on these boards somewhere (Gamemaster's lounge?). This story shows that no matter what the GM thinks, he does NOT hold all the cards.
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I've always questioned why (non-gamer) friends and family will sit there and not question you not being available on Saturdays if you're in a softball league, knitting club, etc.; but the moment you say you game on Saturdays, everybody expects you to skip the game for their plans.
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I think this hardcore attitude about showing up to every session may be one of the leading contributing factors to the decline of roleplaying as a hobby. How can newer players get into a game once it transcends being simply a game and becomes a hard commitment? Guys, it's a game, and we're talking about it like it's a budget meeting or something. We're all grown-ups and things come up. I've missed gaming sessions just because I was too tired to play, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No actual negative consequences will result from me missing a game. The game will be different that night, but that's it.
That being said, I've never been a habitual absentee from gaming, and I usually motion to drop habitual absentees from my gaming groups. There's a line between "life happens" and "I'll show up for about half the games if I feel like it." Sometimes, though, life happens at the last second.
Here's the way I do it. If someone doesn't show up to a session that all have already committed to, we have an understanding that their character will be played by another player. The receive no karma for the run, their characters cannot use edge for any reason in their absence (just started this one, but it hasn't come up yet), and if they die they die. That's incentive enough. We don't need to concoct an appropriate punishment, rationalize a PC's absence in mid-run, fill a role left vacant by a missing player, etc. The best part is that the game goes on as scheduled, and the negative effects on the other players are minimized. Isn't that the whole idea? This solution works to solve the problem created by the absent player rather than to seek retribution for the problem that was created (for deterrent purposes or otherwise). Plus, there is a deterrent effect to not controlling your own character (especially if edge is out). It's not like they're skipping out on babysitting your kids or something. They just didn't come to game night. Now sure, if it's a regular thing, then the PC will not be joining the next run and you can start looking for a new player.
I don't think we can talk about respecting schedules if we are going to demand explanations for absences, and impose punishments if said explanations are found to be inadequate. Tell them when the game is, let them know that if they don't show up their character is in the same danger with no chance for a karma reward, and play the game.
I have literally never dropped anyone from one of my gaming groups because a) they are my friends in real life first and foremost and b) I doubt I could replace them. Because I pretty much only play with people I know and am comfortable with--I need to have something more in common with them than playing SR, but they also have to be someone I can talk into playing SR. Which is a very limited pool of people.
I mean, I'm a very atypical SR player. I have never played in an online game of any kind (PbP, IRC, Skype, Forum, PbEM, etc.) and I've barely done any convention play. SR has always been an activity I've done with at least reasonably close friends.
In any case, less than half of them show up to half of the games even half of the time. But I mean, it's not that they don't show up to games so much as we can't SCHEDULE games. No one will agree to a weekly or bi-weekly game day, so we have to schedule each and every session on a case by case basis which is really, really, really hard to do. Often even getting in touch with them is hard.
It sucks.
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I've always questioned why (non-gamer) friends and family will sit there and not question you not being available on Saturdays if you're in a softball league, knitting club, etc.; but the moment you say you game on Saturdays, everybody expects you to skip the game for their plans.
This happens to me a lot, and gaming is only one night a week for me ATM.
In regards to OP question, we have a schedule running a month in advance. It's normally on a set day, but if there are public holidays or other plans we know of, then that's exactly what we move days around for.
It's been mentioned by others on this thread, but is worth repeating. Sounds like the group has commitment issues (how many of them are blokes? ;) ) and in truth, most people can't be bothered behaving courteously (responding to messages, etc).
I've worked for some time in Project Management, and the issue you're reporting (people not responding if there's an issue, not getting back to you regarding proposed dates etc) are exactly what happen with the majority of people in business as well. It sucks when the same issues are inherent in our social circles, but peoples is peoples.... and most of them are inconsiderate and self-absorbed....
Note: If you can plan three months in advance, I highly recommend a Project Management career for you. Most people just can't wrap their head around the mindset, but it sounds like you've got it sorted ;)
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Project Management - I schedule many things and plan projects - I used to plan trade shows:)
Very true about how folks will not expect someone to change their plans if they say they're attending a sports event but gaming is a different story. I simply try to schedule around the game.
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Its pretty simple schedule for our group. We game on our weekly gameday, Saturday as it is right now. If you have a emergency, family issue, etc. you call and we will see you next week. If we lose three players for a session we go to plan B and movie, video games, or something. When you make having fun the rule #1 everything else seems to work itself out. I have had people miss 3 games and I told them I was dropping them out til they could show regular but that is as far as I have ever had to think into it. We have two buds stuck up in Michigan right now and they skype in on games, a married couple who are at the mercy of sitters who get better offers, a few working stiffs who are at the mercy of overtime gods, a great dad who is going to about a million softball games a summer, and my best friend who is a good deed doer of the first order and schedules around helping everyone he has ever met do everything but alchemy each weekend and we still find a way to show up and roll dice.
There was a couple of points brought up by some other posters I wanted to chime in on. I don't think you should hit characters with penalties in game for something the players do outside the game. I understand the logic of it and can relate. GM is using his juice to run the game to straighten out a situation that affects his game. I have never seen it work out well. It takes time away from the good boys and girls gamers who are there so you can have a pissing contest with a friend who is having a bad night and is sharing it with the class. Best thing to do is let them vent with a good ol fashion shoot em up. Lets everyone clear their head and you can get on with it. I like to make the game an escape and leave everything at the door. The only exception I make to this is for those who bring snacks, music, art, etc used for the game. That kind of good Karma may follow you around in game, as it should. If anyone rolls in late I work their characters in, ie they get bonded out of the drunk tank, turn their comm on from visiting their moms house, or escape the death trap their enemy concocted for them this week. The other players catch them up and life goes on. I do want to say I understand getting frustrated with players. I have not always acted in accordance with my better angels in dealing with someone who rolls in and wants to express exactly how big a jerk they could ever aspire to be. But thats what the game is for to help them with a fun distraction with friends.
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It is a game and I play and run to have fun. But it is also a group event that relies on all or at least most of the members to show up. One person cancels or doesn't show up and the rest of the group suffers for that. These are people that have set aside time, made commitments and sacrifices to have this time slot available. It isn't fair to the rest of us who are committing to come together.
If it was a board game it wouldn't matter much. If it was something that was easy to drop pieces in and out of the same. But it isn't. It is a team event and just like your favorite sports team the entire team is greatly effected because one of the players decided he wanted to go to <insert other event here>. I view a game as a commitment just like I view playing on the soccer team, except it is rougher on the team because their isn't a bench to draw from.
Some people are fine with hit and miss games that take place when they can. Some people are OK with canceling regularly scheduled games because a person or persons are absent or busy. I am just not that kind of person. I want to play my game, I want it to run smoothly and I want to have fun. If people can't show or games are regularly canceled that isn't fun for me. I put a lot of time in as a GM and typically even as a player and I don't want my time to go to waste.
My style isn't for everyone, but after decades of playing and running I have come to understand what I need to have the best possible time is a regular event where people are as committed as I am. If someone simply can't do it, we can hang out other times and do other things together if we are friends but they need to find another game. It isn't a big deal, they aren't banished from the friend circle we just don't roll dice together.
I don't think minor penalties in game is too harsh to encourage players to attend. I would rather doll out a known minor punishment then have my passive aggressive DM take it out on me in game anyway. (Please note I am not trying to indicate any of you are like that, it is just something I have observed fairly regularly in my gaming experience).
In the end we all have to find games, players and GMs that suit our own personalities. That, after all, is the true gamer struggle, finding people we look forward to spending our designated gaming time with.
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It is a game and I play and run to have fun. But it is also a group event that relies on all or at least most of the members to show up. One person cancels or doesn't show up and the rest of the group suffers for that. These are people that have set aside time, made commitments and sacrifices to have this time slot available. It isn't fair to the rest of us who are committing to come together.
This is even more true when there are only two or three PCs, which is sadly the most I've been able to muster at one time for almost my entire life. The games where we have 4 or even 5 characters are the ones that are few and far between.
In fact, two of my regular players are standing me up for Shadowrun right now as I'm making this post, haha.
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I have the exact opposite problem. I have only rarely been in a group with 3 or less players. Most of the time I'm in groups that are turning people away.
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rub it in why don't you : P
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It used to be that recruiting was difficult but it now I've GM'ing to slightly over my limit (7). All are very regular and give excellent notice if they are out. Partly - I think its my style which may not be for everyone. I'm very atypical as a GM from what folks tell me.
Partly - when it comes to my intolerance of BS. If someone just doesn't mesh or is flaky, I give one warning in a very straight-forward but polite manner and if the behavior continues one more time - GONE with no apologies.
Partly - because I'm reliable to the extreme.
All that combines to get the folks that are awesome to stay because they won't need to tolerate BS. That or its my cooking ;D
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See I mostly game with people who are already my friends anyway, so you have to deal with occasional BS just because people are people, and sometimes they have to deal with my BS for their part.
But I agree there is no reason to keep someone around who is just a disruption.
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But I agree there is no reason to keep someone around who is just a disruption.
Sure there is:
If you're running low on people and can't find a replacement.
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The way we run (Usually) is every other saturday. Our host works nights at a hospital pharmacy as an assistant, and gets those weekends off. Outside of that, it's a call on the Saturday/Sunday before to see who has off/is able to show up, because at the moment, he's the only one with a real solid schedule that needs upholding.
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But I agree there is no reason to keep someone around who is just a disruption.
Sure there is:
If you're running low on people and can't find a replacement.
In my experience even this isn't worth it.
I'd rather have a 1:1 game of GM:PC, than have an extra player to fill the gap, at the cost of ruining it for everyone else (GM and other players).
Sometimes you just have to prune the rotting branches for the good of the tree.
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If you're in Colorado Springs, Dragon and Dragoons in a great store.
Huh, I've lived in the Springs for 15 years and never heard of that store. Apparently it's down by Carson though, and I'm never down that far south. I'll have to check it out though.
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And so here's how the story ends
So the next game is canceled and notification sent to my work email at 2:30 AM the morning of the game. Since its the weekend, I don't see it and show up. Their reason is sound - notification that their job would end in a month. They wanted to ready their resume and such. I understood but a little more notice would have been nice. I speak from having had very similar circumstances.
After much debate with myself, I withdrew from the game scheduled for this weekend. I email him my resignation but friendly with a standing invite to Saturday evening Netflix with me and my friends. I get a return email stating that the game would be on hold for awhile anyway. That left me to wonder, when would he have notified everyone? From things I found out, this sort of thing happens with this GM often.
As a GM and as a player, when I find out I need to cancel a game (which rarely happens because I plan well), I let the players know out of respect for their time.
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Ugh, that sucks. Even when things change last second for a good reason, it is pretty important to get confirmation from everyone.