Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: baronspam on <07-24-11/2204:39>
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Recently somone in another thread asked if there was a general do's and don't list for character creation. I tried to start one there, but it didn't really get any momentum. I thought I would give it another go with its own thread, and toss out some basic ideas to get the ball rolling.
In no particular order:
Don't assume you can always stay in the van (or other vehicle of your choice).
Not everyone has to be a combat monster, but be able to do something in a fight.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket, but don't try to do so many things that you end up being good at none of them.
Don't take skill groups unless your really want all the skills. But if you do they are a bargain.
Being able to defend and to perceive are critical to survival.
Edge is a wonderful thing.
Don't forget that gymnastics substitutes for dodge, and is easier to bonus with cyberware.
Augmentation or Magic, and play it to the hilt.
Adepts are the exception to the above rule. A little bioware can make a good adept into a great adept.
Always have another ID ready.
Firewall 6. Analyze 6. There is no excuse.
Legwork is everyone's job.
Contacts: you want some.
A specialization is only 2 karma during play. Unless its a low skill that will only be usefull in the specialized area that you don't intend to advance, save the specialization for later.
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I would nitpick a few of those.
Don't take a skill group unless you want at least 3 of those skills.
If you are a mage or a technomancer, you're an exception to the Spec-at-chargen rule, because you have stuff that you can and do want to pour karma into (initiating/submerging and raising magic/resonance).
I will also add a few. Consider everything to have an "unless it is for RP purposes" disclaimer. If you want to make an ork charisma mage with Firearms 2 and Close Combat 2 because that's the character you envision, then feel free.
Avoid taking redundant combat options. Don't take the Firearms or Close Combat skill groups. Don't make a mage with Agility 2 and Pistols 1. Don't give your mage eight different combat spells that do fundamentally the same thing.
Decompiling and Banishing are trap options.
Wear proper armor. "Proper" for most people means "not obviously armor and at your encumbrance limit." You should be using Form Fitting Body Armor.
Always start and end character creation by asking yourself "why is this character not an ork." If you don't have a good answer you should be an ork.
If you can't afford everything you want, buy your skills to 4, the maximum you will ever want, or not at all (or 1 if you can't live without it for a little while) because you will get everything you want faster with karma. Same for stats - if you want but cannot afford two 5s, you're better off with a 5 and a 1 than two 3s.
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Your second character will be better then your first, don't give your first character the 'enemy' quality then build that enemy.
Do, go into your first play session expecting to die, if the GM likes you, you'll survive.
Do read all of the book before you make your first character.
No not skip over the matrix and awakened sections cause you're making a gun bunny. (Guilty)
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Before your character concept gets set in stone, rough it out a bit, to see if it actually works within the Shadowrun rules. There are many things that are cool in concept, but problematic in execution. A good character should have crunch that matches the fluff.
Balance optimizing your character out of the starting gate, and optimizing him for advancement. Specializations may be cheaper after the game begins, but specializations are still worth it for two things - your main specialty, where you will want a large dice pool, and low-rated skills where a specialization lets you function in that skill (pilot ground vehicle: 1 with a specialization in wheeled, etc.). On the other hand, hard-maxing Attributes is usually disproportionately expensive, and is better done with karma.
This is a game where it is far easier to specialize than to generalize, and where augmentations and magic give incredibly cheap boosts to your abilities. These are not system flaws - they are design features. It is a game of transhumanism, where you are playing a member of a team of freelance expert specialists. Making a character who is an unaugmented mundane, a Jack of all trades, or both, is going against the grain of both the game and the setting. I'm not saying don't do it, but if you do it, be aware that your character will be challenging to play.
Metagame properly - don't simply optimize a character by the rules, optimize a character for the specific game that you are playing in. Don't bother making a super combat monster if the game is mostly talking, planning, and sneaking. Don't make a sneaky guy if the runs mostly involve blowing things up. Don't waste a lot of points in social skills if that player's talking ability seems to matter more than what's on the sheet. If the playstyle is too far from what you like, you are probably better off not even sitting at that particular table, but otherwise, don't get mad - adapt.
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Get yourself a trusty black trenchcoat or a pretty pink mohawk, make it your own, and live by it. Don't try to have a character that flip flops between seriously gritty and over the top excitement
Be able to do something in combat, something in legwork, and something logistically. A way to kill, a way to gather info, and a way to fix or buy items.
If you're going to serve up cheese to your GM night after night, expect him to send a cheese platter your way too (ex, if all you ever do is shock glove/shock frill and stick n shock, expect that to be met with someone with nonconductivity 6, a high willpower, and a 6 shooter full of rounds made to ruin your day)
If you turn out to be comically bad at your job, don't insist on playing it out to the bitter end, the end gets further and further away and more bitter the longer it takes.
Always have ALL of the basic matrix use programs. Your commlink can't do a damn thing without browse, edit, scan, analyze, etc. Might not even be able to take and receive calls if your GM's a dick about it.
Expect to be pulled out of your comfort zone. I don't mean just out of the van, I mean being forced to leave the van, and all the explosives behind to go spend a week in Africa (where your gnome will pick all sorts of fights for you). If you think you're going to live in a rigger cocoon, expect to be called to a court where they dojn't tolerate that monocycle with a valkyrie cocoon and make you stand about in the meat world, uncomfortably far from your rig.
Make something you'll enjoy playing, not something your GM or other players say they really need in their group.
If anything looks like the rule is too good to be true, try reading it from the perspective of an outsider. Negative qualities that are read as "optional negative qualities" aren't likely to be read that way by an outsider, and definitely won't be by the GM that finds out 3 sessions later that you've been ignoring the must in the rule for your guidance spirit from the beginning.
Forget about that black trenchcoat, wear a pink mohawk. Black trenchcoats are for silly WoD games and Top Secret. Go Pink, go big, go tusks.
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I don't know about not taking a firearms and close combat skill groups. It never hurts to not have to default if you need to punch something, and it doesn't take much to make a stun baton hurt. If you have an agility of 3, that one skill group means the difference between 2 dice, and 4 dice. It ain't great, but I'd rather be rolling 4 dice than 2. I wouldn't bother with it after that point, but having a ranged skill and a close combat skill isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Take some form of fixer and street doc contacts, preferably with a good loyalty rating. You are going to want jobs, and you are going to want someone to patch you up. You want either one of those people willing to quickly and easily sell you out? I know I don't.
Have a couple of different fake SINs, from different political bodies (ex UCAS, Renraku, and Salish-Sidhe).
Carry backup weapon(s). It never hurts to have a ceramic knife in a conceal holster, or a hold out pistol, or both.
Splash grenades with c-squared (arsenal, 82), incendiary, or white phosphorus grenades all make wonderful site scrubbing tools. Jack a car to do a run in, after it is over park it in the barrens, and toss in a wp grenade. Don't have to worry about hair and fibers now.
It is a good idea to carry a smoke grenade or two, and a flash pak.
Never ever make deals with a dragon.
If you are going to break a point of Essence for a piece of gear. Might as well get the most out of the point (especially if you are magical). Going for some cybereyes? Might as well get some ears, a radar sensor, orientation system, and a datajack. (I didn't add up the essence on that, just an example.)
Willpower isn't a dump stat. Your very first stunbolt/ball will be more than happy to show you this.
Kill the mage first.
Always plan on at least one way out of a situation. If it goes pear shaped (and it will), you want to already have an escape planned.
Edge is not a dump stat. Leaving it at 1 is asking to get kicked in the jimmies.
Probably a good idea to carry two commlinks. A clean one that broadcasts your fake SIN, and the one you actually use.
If you want to play a sniper, buying a few micro sized motion sensors/cameras to watch your back is a good idea.
You really want the ability to scan for rfid tags, along with a tag eraser. Having just the tag eraser isn't doing much good. Also having a couple of emp grenades handy can be useful.
Buy a respirator.
Buy a medkit.
Having a use or two of nanopaste disguise can be extremely handy. Being able to leave an area looking different than you arrived is valuable.
Wine and dine your contacts. Even when you don't want anything.
Having a prearranged safehouse setup under a different identity can save your life.
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If I repeat, I apologize.
Buy appropriate gear: your face is likely NOT going to need that Panther Cannon.
And get the best gear you possibly can. Remember, you get what you pay for.
Know what you want to play, and create your stats as best you can, but don't worry if you aren't the best right away. That's what karma is for.
But do have one "go to skill" that is as high as you can make it with out sacrificing other skills.
Always own at least two guns: one you can easily carry and get away with carrying, and one for putting big holes in someone/thing for when the fecal matter hits the ocelating cooling device.
And for crying out loud, make sure you have at LEAST two to three re-loads on you AT ALL TIMES.
Always have something you can stick into someone or beat someone with. Guns run out of ammo but clubs, blades, etc don't.
And as for kit, do yourself a favor and know how to competely use what you have.
Don't try and be good at everying. Know what your role will be and build accordingly.
And while not about building, but rather playing: HAVE FUN. When it becomes work, it's may be time to quit.
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I feel like we're kind of digressing into general advice rather than character creation advice.
I don't know about not taking a firearms and close combat skill groups. It never hurts to not have to default if you need to punch something, and it doesn't take much to make a stun baton hurt. If you have an agility of 3, that one skill group means the difference between 2 dice, and 4 dice. It ain't great, but I'd rather be rolling 4 dice than 2. I wouldn't bother with it after that point, but having a ranged skill and a close combat skill isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I don't think it's a bad idea to buy a close combat skill (probably Unarmed, since if you're forced to hit someone, it's likely because you don't have your guns, and that might mean you don't have your stun baton either) and a firearms skill. The problem is that investing in the groups is disproportionately expensive and serves only to give you redundant options. I'd much rather have Unarmed (Martial Arts) 4 (6) than Close Combat 2
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Another two:
When you buy 'ware, first, check if there's gear that duplicates the effect of the 'ware. If there is, think long and hard about what you're getting out of it. If you buy cyberears, you should think really, REALLY hard about how much you're paying for them in nuyen and essence over earbuds, and how often it's going to actually pay off. Unless it is something that the gear does not do and is totally worth it on its own, or you think the gear is likely to be unavailable often and you just cannot live without it, don't get the 'ware.
Shadowrun is a game full of trap options. Most spells suck. Most adept powers suck. Most 'ware sucks. Always look for the "catch," and always check and see if there's another spell/power/ware that's just outright better, or if it duplicates cheap and legal gear.
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Body and Willpower should be odd for the extra condition track box.
3 Body means you want to stay out of combat, 5 body means you want to fight people. Less is asking to have a nasty, brutal, short, life.
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I would like to add some if you don't mind.
1. Don' t go into your first session thinking that you are the best in the area. There is always someone waiting in the shadows to put down young pups.
2. Bigger dicepools don't make better runners. Brains, skills, contacts. and gear make better runners.
3. Contacts are bullets you want enough to get the job done.
4. Go in with a good idea of what you will do to get legwork done. I can't stress this enough. One contact is not enough to get the job done.
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I would like to add some if you don't mind.
1. Don' t go into your first session thinking that you are the best in the area. There is always someone waiting in the shadows to put down young pups.
2. Bigger dicepools don't make better runners. Brains, skills, contacts. and gear make better runners.
3. Contacts are bullets you want enough to get the job done.
4. Go in with a good idea of what you will do to get legwork done. I can't stress this enough. One contact is not enough to get the job done.
I found several of these suggestions dubious and unclear.
Let's say (1) is true. How should I build my character differently now that I know what this is true? What specific prescriptions do you have for the allocation of BP's based on this rule?
(2) Is false by definition. If two players are equal in every respect, except one of them has a character with bigger dice pools, then that character is better. Are you trying to say that big dicepools are a necessary but not sufficient characteristic in making a successful runner? I could get behind that.
(3) So contacts are useless in the game I am in. Nearly every player activates their contacts in each session, and I've yet to see a contact do anything that makes them worth their cost. They are ridiculously over-priced in terms of BP. In fact one of the most common house rules I've seen is that all characters start with CHA x 2 BP worth of free contacts, just to address this issue.
Regardless, their usefulness is obviously super dependent on the GM. Adjudicating the effects of using a contact is a complete magic tea party, so I doubt we can give general character creation advice about how useful they are.
Furthermore (3) is not very actionable advice. It would be more useful to say how to allocate BP on contacts. I could spend 40 BP on 10 2/2 contacts. Is that good, or would I get vastly more mileage out of 10 BP spent on one 5/5 contact?
In general, what we can say on contacts is that you shouldn't waste your BP on low connection, low loyalty contacts. Those are easy enough to earn for free in general gameplay. If you want some really high-powered connections to people who ordinarily wouldn't give you the time of day, then it might be a good idea to pick up a high connection-high loyalty contact.
edit: correcting bad grammar
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One thing I find helpful, come up with a backstory before you even sit down and start building. I say this because, sometimes it's the story that builds the character. Especially in heavy RP games. Plus, you get more karma for good Rp. Plus if the GM likes your story he might just give you starting karma for a good detailed one.
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Do:
Get a few ranks in perception.
Get Body to at least 3.
Make sure you have something to do in an Investigation encounter (collecting information), a combat encounter (Fighting) and a social encounter (Talking) Even if you aren't specialized as a face, try to be able to add something to a conversation.
Spend at least 10pts on things that help define your character. Contacts and equipment are good places to do this.
Mix Bio and Cyber wear if you go for technical augmentation. They offer a strong synergy if you want to keep your essence cost down.
Get a Medkit, Fake SIN and some kind of Visual and Audio enhancers.
Go for what sounds fun to you, not what people say are optimum ways to build a character.
Find out what other people are playing and try to work out ways your characters can work well together.
Have some way for your character to get around town that won't get you arrested.
Don't:
Exploit badly written or confusing rules to your advantage.
Try to create conflict within the group.
Take stats at 1 without a good reason that fits with your character concept.
Play a personalty-less tabula rasa. In a pinch, think of a few traits your character has like biting a thumbnail or starting speaking by saying "hey guys" and have them do that IC. Have at least a basic idea as to what your character looks like. Negative qualities are a great place to start with these.
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Always start and end character creation by asking yourself "why is this character not an ork." If you don't have a good answer you should be an ork.
Just curious as to why?
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Ork only 20 BP and gives you +3 Body (everybody want to have more body) and +2 strength.
Very sound investment.
Rasmus
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Yes but you also take a hit to Chrisma.
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Ork only 20 BP and gives you +3 Body (everybody want to have more body) and +2 strength.
Very sound investment.
Rasmus
Makes sense. Cheers.
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Yes but you also take a hit to Chrisma.
Pobody's Nerfect, I guess. ;)
Unless Charisma is essential to your build, I can see living with a lower Charisma.
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Ork's don't need Charisma.
Ork's need a big dakka.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoreDakka
Rasmus
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Don't start with a backstory, start by asking yourself "What amd I good at? What do I bring to the table that helps the team". If you can't answer that, you will not be adding anything to the group. After you know what you want to do, build it. Then write a backstory that explains why you are built the way you are. Working in the other direction means you lose optimization for fluff reasons and can lead to frustration (if you care about optimization).
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I agree with that, but I'd say that you can leave back story until later and instead try to think of what you want a character to be good at, then think of an in-game justification for why you would be.
For example, you decied you want to play a tech-enhanced fighter. You want to be good at violence and scary.
So brainstorm some concepts that could get there.
Maybe you are an ex-solider, leaving the military after a brutal injury required heavy cybernetic enhancement just to save your life and return normal function, on top of a military enhancement your character received to be competitive on the 2070 battlefields. Give him a cyberarm and some scars, ranks in Military knowledge and maybe the Military specialty for Etiquette.
Or not a solider.. a cop that played by the rules until he was betrayed and had to duck into the shadows. Now he works the other side of the law using the skills he acquired on a lone star Hazardous Response Team. Local knowledge, the gangs of the sprawl, maybe a flaw or two like Enemy, to reflect criminals he busted that want to get some payback.
Maybe a highly ranked Yakuza, born into a criminal family as the heir of a powerful leader you have been called ojou-sama for so long that the gajin you work with think it's your name. Your father's death or dishonor has thrust you from the lofty heights, but you were always aware that one day you would need to stand alone, your body a work of art with the finest cybernetic and bioenhancement your father's loyal doctors could give you before your fall from grace. You still have connections with the local yakuza loyal to you and a hidden safe house, identity and money. One day you will take back your birthright, until then you will gather power, wealth and influence.
In game, all three would have similar stats and abilities but you'd customize and finish them up in very different ways. They'd also be more memorable then just another street sam.
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Yes but you also take a hit to Chrisma.
You don't take a hit to your charisma, you take a hit to your maximum Charisma (and Logic), which is very different. If you were going to have, say, 3 body, 3 strength, 3 charisma, 3 logic, and 3 edge, then being an ork gets you +1 body and also saves you 10 points while not lowering any of your stats.
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Orks are at a real sweet spot, both crunch-wise and fluff-wise. They have slightly lower maximums to some Attributes, but not enough to be a huge hindrance, while getting bonuses that put them right about where most characters want to be. A Body of 4 and Strength of 3 are good for even a non-combat character. Overall, they gain 20 build points compared to a human (20 cost and lose a point of Edge, vs. 50 points of Attribute bonuses). Fluff-wise, they are a relatively common metatype, suffer moderate discrimination, and can generally blend in relatively easily, not needing customized gear, or living spaces designed for a different size.
Dwarves, by contrast, cost 25 points, lose a point of Edge, and gain 40 points in Attributes, for a net gain of only 5 points - not really enough to balance the hit they take on Reaction and the requirement of gear modified to their size.
Trolls cost 40 points, lose a point of Edge, and gain 80 points in Attributes. So their net gain in build points is even more than an ork's, but Body and Strength of 5 are getting to the point where they are too much for a non-combat build. And they also are huge sized, need specially modified gear, and take hits to their maximums in Agility (one of the most important Attributes of the game) and mental Attributes - unlike an ork, the latter are enough to be a serious detriment in certain roles (face, techie, etc.). They are great for certain builds, but handicapped outside of those narrow roles. I admit, though, that I still like playing against type with trolls (stealthy faces, etc.), even though it is not very optimal.
Elves cost 30 points, lose a point of Edge, and gain 30 points in Attributes. They are the only metatype that actually has a higher net cost than being a human. But what you are paying for is the ability to have two very important Attributes at a higher rating (or, if you don't get a high Agility or Charisma, you are paying a "flavor tax" - the weapons specialist archetype is an example of this).
Humans, the baseline, are very versatile. But their biggest weakness is that they are the only metatype without some kind of Attribute bonus. Which means they are stuck with 200 points in Attributes, while, for example, an elf could, in effect, get 230 points worth of Attributes. This can limit humans for some roles, ones where above average physical and mental Attributes are needed.
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Humans, the baseline, are very versatile. But their biggest weakness is that they are the only metatype without some kind of Attribute bonus. Which means they are stuck with 200 points in Attributes, while, for example, an elf could, in effect, get 230 points worth of Attributes. This can limit humans for some roles, ones where above average physical and mental Attributes are needed.
I've said before that humans should have a higher upper limit to how many bps they can put into attributes, qualities or gear. They make up an astounding % of the population, so a greater breadth of diversity makes sense.
If they could take 220bp in attributes, 40bp in pos/neg qualities, and spend up to 55bp on gear, then they wouldn't be "fluff guys" exclusively.
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It does seem a little off that the other Metatypes get an effective bonus to Attributes, whilst Humans don't. That said, is raising the number of BP that a Human can spend on Attributes the answer, or would the way to go be to lower the number of BPs that the other Metatypes can spend? For instance, all Metatypes get to spend 200BP on Attributes and Metatype combined, maybe?
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Dwarves actually get much more of a raw deal than humans.
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Dwarves actually get much more of a raw deal than humans.
Hey, just because they can't see above the steering wheel... :P
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That's what phone books and platform shoes are for.
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It does seem a little off that the other Metatypes get an effective bonus to Attributes, whilst Humans don't. That said, is raising the number of BP that a Human can spend on Attributes the answer, or would the way to go be to lower the number of BPs that the other Metatypes can spend? For instance, all Metatypes get to spend 200BP on Attributes and Metatype combined, maybe?
Raising the number of BP that humans can spend on core Attributes sounds like a much better solution. The problem is that humans can't spend enough on core Attributes. Imposing limits on metahumans would only give them the same problem, not fix the problem with humans.
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For fun, I've used the surge rules to turn humans into metas. When you do that, all the metas cost less than they should. Yes, even the Dwarf, who costs net 65 BP to "make".
Positives: Metagenic improvements at +20 each (Bod, Str x 2, Will) [+80]; Thermographic Vision [+5]; Resist pathogen/toxin at +2 [+20]. (NOTE: you can't get more than +1 by the book, I doubled the cost for the +2) Total +105
Negatives: Impaired Attributes at -5 each (Body, React x 2) [-15]; Deformity (size, severe) [-25]. Total -40
I don't have a good fix, myself, but it's pretty obvious that all the metas are (depending on what you want to do with them) cheap bonuses for players.
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It does seem a little off that the other Metatypes get an effective bonus to Attributes, whilst Humans don't. That said, is raising the number of BP that a Human can spend on Attributes the answer, or would the way to go be to lower the number of BPs that the other Metatypes can spend? For instance, all Metatypes get to spend 200BP on Attributes and Metatype combined, maybe?
Raising the number of BP that humans can spend on core Attributes sounds like a much better solution. The problem is that humans can't spend enough on core Attributes. Imposing limits on metahumans would only give them the same problem, not fix the problem with humans.
The fix I came up with some time ago was simple. Humans get the racial ability of Versatility, which is effectively Metagenic Improvement for any two attributes of choice and Aptitude for one skill of choice. This replaces the +1 bonus to Edge they normally get. They still have to pay BPs/Karma to take advantage of it, but that's covered by the "cheapness" of the race.
The other metahuman races still have advantages -- significant ones in some cases -- but this change allows Humans to excel at anything they wish to do, while the other races are 'limited' to a smaller subset of professions/concepts in which they excel.
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It does seem a little off that the other Metatypes get an effective bonus to Attributes, whilst Humans don't. That said, is raising the number of BP that a Human can spend on Attributes the answer, or would the way to go be to lower the number of BPs that the other Metatypes can spend? For instance, all Metatypes get to spend 200BP on Attributes and Metatype combined, maybe?
Raising the number of BP that humans can spend on core Attributes sounds like a much better solution. The problem is that humans can't spend enough on core Attributes. Imposing limits on metahumans would only give them the same problem, not fix the problem with humans.
I guess I just think that it'd be better for starting characters to start as such - I'd rather them be underpowered at CharGen, than the alternative - so I don't really perceive this as a problem, more as a solution. YMMV.
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Honestly, I play Humans more than any other metatype personally. I just prefer them, but I do think that they do need more than just +1 Edge granted them to put them a bit better off than they are now.
The next time I'm the one running, I may just offer that idea someone put in there about increasing some of the BP limits on different categories to encourage Human characters. I always get annoyed when someone refuses to play Human because they are human--I actually know someone whom that is their main reason for such.
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Honestly, I play Humans more than any other metatype personally. I just prefer them, but I do think that they do need more than just +1 Edge granted them to put them a bit better off than they are now.
The next time I'm the one running, I may just offer that idea someone put in there about increasing some of the BP limits on different categories to encourage Human characters. I always get annoyed when someone refuses to play Human because they are human--I actually know someone whom that is their main reason for such.
I don't know, I think that the fact that their +1 Edge and the only 0 BP race balances out against the others. 0 BP means they can have 100,000¥ more gear or 2 ranks in a Skill Group or Magician and Mentor Spirit qualities; whereas it's tougher for an Ork to get those since they use the 20 BP for their metatype.
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Honestly, I play Humans more than any other metatype personally. I just prefer them, but I do think that they do need more than just +1 Edge granted them to put them a bit better off than they are now.
The next time I'm the one running, I may just offer that idea someone put in there about increasing some of the BP limits on different categories to encourage Human characters. I always get annoyed when someone refuses to play Human because they are human--I actually know someone whom that is their main reason for such.
I don't know, I think that the fact that their +1 Edge and the only 0 BP race balances out against the others. 0 BP means they can have 100,000¥ more gear or 2 ranks in a Skill Group or Magician and Mentor Spirit qualities; whereas it's tougher for an Ork to get those since they use the 20 BP for their metatype.
If the human is willing to have 1 BOD and STR, then your point is valid. If you're unwilling to have 1s in either, you lost that advantage.
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Honestly, I play Humans more than any other metatype personally. I just prefer them, but I do think that they do need more than just +1 Edge granted them to put them a bit better off than they are now.
The next time I'm the one running, I may just offer that idea someone put in there about increasing some of the BP limits on different categories to encourage Human characters. I always get annoyed when someone refuses to play Human because they are human--I actually know someone whom that is their main reason for such.
I don't know, I think that the fact that their +1 Edge and the only 0 BP race balances out against the others. 0 BP means they can have 100,000¥ more gear or 2 ranks in a Skill Group or Magician and Mentor Spirit qualities; whereas it's tougher for an Ork to get those since they use the 20 BP for their metatype.
If the human is willing to have 1 BOD and STR, then your point is valid. If you're unwilling to have 1s in either, you lost that advantage.
But the human also has a benefit to CHA and LOG over the Ork.
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Honestly, I play Humans more than any other metatype personally. I just prefer them, but I do think that they do need more than just +1 Edge granted them to put them a bit better off than they are now.
The next time I'm the one running, I may just offer that idea someone put in there about increasing some of the BP limits on different categories to encourage Human characters. I always get annoyed when someone refuses to play Human because they are human--I actually know someone whom that is their main reason for such.
I don't know, I think that the fact that their +1 Edge and the only 0 BP race balances out against the others. 0 BP means they can have 100,000¥ more gear or 2 ranks in a Skill Group or Magician and Mentor Spirit qualities; whereas it's tougher for an Ork to get those since they use the 20 BP for their metatype.
If the human is willing to have 1 BOD and STR, then your point is valid. If you're unwilling to have 1s in either, you lost that advantage.
But the human also has a benefit to CHA and LOG over the Ork.
No, the human has the POTENTIAL benefit to CHA and LOG. If each want to go to max, the human can go higher.
The ork gets 50 points of BP locked in for 20 BP, and suffers the potential of 20 BP at the top end of two less frequently softcapped attributes.
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Honestly, I think that SR4A has almost killed Mundane Human.
Which is a shame, considering...
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Soooooooooooooooo... The Humanis Policlub had a point all along? :o
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For fun...
Excluding the surge class BP cost (class iii) here's the cost of "building" the metas using the surge rules. Had to ignore the "only once" in a couple of places. The troll has both deformity for the horns and tusks and build, progeria to represent the early maturation and death, and striking skin pigmentation. You can see that removing those costs (25, 30, and 5 respectively) would make the troll more expensive than the ork.
Ork: 95 BP
Dwarf: 65 BP
Elf: 65 BP
Troll: 90 BP
Just another data point for consideration.
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Humans are actually a bit better off than they were in SR3 - under the old Priority system, mundane dwarves and orks essentially got their race (with its attendant bonuses) for "free". As I said, it only really comes up if you want to play a human who needs high Attributes in both physical and mental Attributes: sammie/face or something similar. And even for that, you can get restricted gear and a suprathyroid gland to get you there.
In practice, they are fairly balanced, if you play metatypes to their strengths. An elven sammie/face will have soft-maxed Agility and Charisma of 6 and 7 instead of 5 and 5, but have an Edge of 2 compared to the Edge of 6 that the human will have, for example.
SURGE costs are not really a good baseline for comparison to metatype costs. Metatypes are a "package deal", where you get penalties that you would rather not have, boosts to "meh" Attributes, penalties to important Attributes, and things you don't need (like low-light or thermographic vision when you are getting cybereyes for that character).
To bring this back on topic, my advice for character creation, RE: metatypes will be:
Do look at metatypes to see which will be best for a certain role (elf for face or marksman, human for Mr. Lucky, troll for a melee tank, etc.).
Don't feel compelled to always take the most optimal pick, though. While the metatypes have their niches, they are still functional outside of them. Want to play a smooth-talking troll or an elf who punches people out? Go for it!
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Edge of 6?! What the heck? Edge might be nice at times, but going above 3 or 4 is a waste of points in my opinion. Why sink that many points into something that is finite in how often it's useful? Just stick with moderate to low Edge for emergencies and use your points elsewhere.
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Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. ;D
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Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. ;D
Not to mention, edge is your extra lives stat.
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Meh, I'll just chalk it up to different styles then. I just couldn't bring myself to take Edge up that high.
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It all depends on how focused the character's specialty is. Edge is a wonky stat. On the one hand, a high Edge is incredibly useful, and can give a character a huge power boost when needed. On the other hand, it is almost never essential to a character concept, so whenever I need to pare down a character, Edge is usually one of the first things to get lowered.
But if you keep the human in the example's Edge at 2, the same as the elf's, then that human will have 40 more points of gear, skills, or contacts. I'm not trying to argue that some metatypes come out ahead purely points-wise (like orks), or that humans don't suffer from having less points they can allocated to Attributes. But I still don't think they are unplayable - just slightly less optimal, and still well within the range where you can make one that is a viable character.
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I hate having an Edge of less than 3. I prefer 4 or 5 as my Edge. I find edge is an essential tool for everything.
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I think part of it depends on how fast and easy Edge refreshes.
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If you want to get technical, for human to be a good race choice, you need to hit one or more of the following:
(Body+Strength) at most 4
Charisma at least 5
Logic at least 5
Edge at least 6
I see maybe 10 humans that don't fit for every 1 that does, so yeah, I think it's worth warning people that humans are a niche race choice, not the default, because people expect humans to be good at everything like in D&D.
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Humans have a few advantages that are not spelled out in BP/karma. They blend better than any other race being the majority race. They have little of no racial discrimination problems. Those are role playing advantages that can not be easily tallied into BP/karma.
For characters: Start with a concept and a story and build from there. Make the character come alive in your head and then put him to paper. You will more fun playing him/her that way.
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If you want to get technical, for human to be a good race choice, you need to hit one or more of the following:
(Body+Strength) at most 4
Charisma at least 5
Logic at least 5
Edge at least 6
I see maybe 10 humans that don't fit for every 1 that does, so yeah, I think it's worth warning people that humans are a niche race choice, not the default, because people expect humans to be good at everything like in D&D.
Yeah...see I think this is a problem. Humans SHOULD be good at everything and a choice at least close to optimal for just about anything. Humans are the most numerous of all the metatypes, but because their game-stats aren't that good, in a lot of games they'll be the minority if not downright absent from the team.
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Your second character will be better then your first, don't give your first character the 'enemy' quality then build that enemy.
Do, go into your first play session expecting to die, if the GM likes you, you'll survive.
Do read all of the book before you make your first character.
No not skip over the matrix and awakened sections cause you're making a gun bunny. (Guilty)
With the first line of this one, just build the character and build a second one, making the first one the enemy. :P
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Just wanted to mention the edge. I love having a good amount of edge as well, as my cushion. Add a decent amount of dice to the pool and have exploding Sixes.
(however I did recently see the value of some low edge characters since i remembered if you didn't score a hit you could use edge to reroll the whole dice pool. 1 edge character could reroll a 10 dice pool possibly. Though it's still risky :P)
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Hmm...you know if that reroll option is usable on soak rolls? If so, that could help me out. My dice tend to exact a price for a really good attack by making the character go down really easy soon after...all 1s on a soak roll blows.
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Hmm...you know if that reroll option is usable on soak rolls? If so, that could help me out. My dice tend to exact a price for a really good attack by making the character go down really easy soon after...all 1s on a soak roll blows.
"You dodge your way into all of the bullets which bypass the better parts of your armour and do as much damage as (meta)humanly possible. You're not dead, but I hope you have better than Basic Doc Wagon coverage or a large bank account connected to that SIN, otherwise you're spare parts."
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Hmm...you know if that reroll option is usable on soak rolls? If so, that could help me out. My dice tend to exact a price for a really good attack by making the character go down really easy soon after...all 1s on a soak roll blows.
As far as I know it's usualble on any test that didn't score 1 hit. (the rule of Six however do not apply to the rerolled dice pool but at least it gives you a second chance if you got nothing)
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Yeah, just not gonna help if the flubbed soak roll got exactly 1 hit when it was doing like 12P.
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Grease spot comes to mind... As does a number of Paranoia games I've run...
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Yeah, it sucks when that happens. (Happened to me in a game just a couple weeks ago). Still not as bad as critical glitch on a soak when a rocket fired by an NPC ally ended up coming back at the party because of those dang scatter tables.
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Hmm...you know if that reroll option is usable on soak rolls? If so, that could help me out. My dice tend to exact a price for a really good attack by making the character go down really easy soon after...all 1s on a soak roll blows.
As far as I know it's usualble on any test that didn't score 1 hit. (the rule of Six however do not apply to the rerolled dice pool but at least it gives you a second chance if you got nothing)
It's usable on any test you want, doesn't matter if you got hit's or not.
Your only reroll the dices that didn't score hits.
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Here is something interesting. Under karma-gen Humans become a lot easier to make. The average stat under karma-gen is higher than for the BP system and the point efficiency is better for having mid range stats and karma-gen allows you to max one stat without extra cost.
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Not so much, actually. Converting to karma makes the more expensive races cheaper, and the upper end of the ability score table matters much much less. Orks and especially Trolls get much better under karmagen, because they get a "bump" up to high body scores that would otherwise be expensive.
Karmagen ability score values:
human: 10 karma (+10)
elf: 35 karma (+5)
dwarf: 45 karma (+20)
ork: 70 karma (+50)
troll: 140 karma (+95)
Compare to the BP values:
human: 10 bp (+10)
elf: 30 bp (+0)
dwarf: 40 bp (+15)
ork: 50 bp (+30)
troll: 80 bp (+35)
Meanwhile, the major drawback to being an ork or troll got lowered - sure, the ork doesn't have the option of getting that very pricey 6th point of logic, but that's much less of a loss when it's 30 karma for it. Trolls especially get far better under karmagen.
Humans become even more of a niche race - you need to have Edge 7+ (rather than 6+), or have really, really low strength and body AND willpower (like, 2 strength, 2 body, and 2 willpower, we're talking) or have 6 Reaction and ALSO 6 logic or charisma. That's quite the niche.
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getting back to the topic of the thread.
My general do's for characters.
1) Play a character you can connect to as a player. Go thought the mental exercise of knowing the character as a person, what he/she likes and doesn't.
2) Think people not class/jobs/race. People are all of these things and more and more than number on a page.
3) Ask yourself if you were the GM would you want this character in your game. If the answer is no or maybe, seriously consider rewriting.
3) Have a good edge stat. Edge is a but saver. 3-4 is good, but higher can give your character the massive punch when it is truly important. (edge spend before the role means all the dice are subject to the rule of 6 not just the edge dice.)
4) Always have some social skills. Even Conan had to talk to people from time to time. Social skills are a god send when doing any kind of legwork.
5) Always expect your character to pull his weight with the leg work.
6) Knowing first aid is helpful. Even rank 1 is good. Buy a Rating 6 medkit and you become a paramedic. "Clear!"
7) Build your character so You, The GM and The other players have a great time. Anything less is a waste of space.
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Not so much, actually. Converting to karma makes the more expensive races cheaper, and the upper end of the ability score table matters much much less. Orks and especially Trolls get much better under karmagen, because they get a "bump" up to high body scores that would otherwise be expensive.
Karmagen ability score values:
human: 10 karma (+10)
elf: 35 karma (+5)
dwarf: 45 karma (+20)
ork: 70 karma (+50)
troll: 140 karma (+95)
Compare to the BP values:
human: 10 bp (+10)
elf: 30 bp (+0)
dwarf: 40 bp (+15)
ork: 50 bp (+30)
troll: 80 bp (+35)
Meanwhile, the major drawback to being an ork or troll got lowered - sure, the ork doesn't have the option of getting that very pricey 6th point of logic, but that's much less of a loss when it's 30 karma for it. Trolls especially get far better under karmagen.
Humans become even more of a niche race - you need to have Edge 7+ (rather than 6+), or have really, really low strength and body AND willpower (like, 2 strength, 2 body, and 2 willpower, we're talking) or have 6 Reaction and ALSO 6 logic or charisma. That's quite the niche.
I was talking about humans, bud. The average stats go up not down with Karma-gen. The nice thing is that if you try and create a min/maxed chummer in karama-gen you get a little boned. If you create a more moderate character your karma goes so much further. You get more skills and better stats and you have the ability to cover more than one role in a shadowrunning team. The karma limits for stats don't count the special ones the edge/magic/res.
Humans have advantages the are not expressed in Karma/BP. The racial discrimination thing, if the GM is using it, makes a huge difference in game. Blending is easier because the humans out number other meta's by several times there number.
Just a Note: I play humans more than any other meta. orks run a distant second.
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Humans have advantages the are not expressed in Karma/BP. The racial discrimination thing, if the GM is using it, makes a huge difference in game. Blending is easier because the humans out number other meta's by several times there number.
Except this IS expressed in Karma/BP. It's worth 5 bp (10 karma), if you want it. Whee.
What humans have going for them is the "But ~*~Dirk Montgomery~*~" factor, and some niche cases that get even niche-er in karmagen.
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Yeah...see I think this is a problem. Humans SHOULD be good at everything and a choice at least close to optimal for just about anything. Humans are the most numerous of all the metatypes, but because their game-stats aren't that good, in a lot of games they'll be the minority if not downright absent from the team.
No, they shouldn't be good at everything. A good choice for some roles, sure, but not "close to optimal for just about anything."
That said, a lot of people don't play humans simply because its a fantasy game, and playing something other than what you are is part of the fun. I, for example, happen to think orks are awesome. I love the way they look, I love their various subcultures, and I love the way the rest of the world looks down on them. It doesn't matter to me that they're one of the more optimal choices in the game all around. I love my ork Face and Hacker just as much as I love my ork Street Samurai. Even if humans had the best in-game stats, that wouldn't change anything for me.
This was a problem that was identified way back in 1st Edition when they went about designing Earthdawn. And in Earthdawn, they gained an ability similar to what I suggested earlier in the thread; the ability to be versatile, allowing them to be a decent (but not "close to optimal") choice for just about any role they chose. By giving them Aptitude for free and a choice of two Metagenic Improvements of choice, you get a similar result in Shadowrun. It doesn't make them overly powerful, but it makes them a great choice for things like magicians or hackers where brains win over brawn. But it also allows them to be a bit more competitive in areas other races dominate, too.
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Humans have advantages the are not expressed in Karma/BP. The racial discrimination thing, if the GM is using it, makes a huge difference in game. Blending is easier because the humans out number other meta's by several times there number.
Except this IS expressed in Karma/BP. It's worth 5 bp (10 karma), if you want it. Whee.
What humans have going for them is the "But ~*~Dirk Montgomery~*~" factor, and some niche cases that get even niche-er in karmagen.
I enjoy humans as characters good, bad or stupid. You play what you like. I play my characters as people not numbers on a page. I don't see humans as being disadvantaged at all. A Troll maybe bigger and stronger than a human on average, but that doesn't make him a better character. it makes him a giant in a world made for humans. If you had ever seen the human characters I play in action, you would never think of them as less than optimal.(Karma-gen or BP.)
I am ending my responses to this subject on this thread as it is off topic. If you want to discuss this further you can start a new thread.
Games are for fun, enjoy the experience.
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The karma limits for stats don't count the special ones the edge/magic/res.
I used to think it was that way, too (I assumed so mainly because that is how Build Points does it). But if you read the rules carefully, the special Attributes fall under that Karma limit (375 for humans) too. Human awakened tend to get boned in Karmagen. I would actually recommend house ruling that special Attributes don't fall under the cap, because human awakened are usually the only ones who get boned by it.
Humans, though, do tend to come out slightly better in Karmagen than they do in Build Points. A mundane human with low Edge can actually have decent core Attributes, and will be more versatile in things like skills/gear/contacts. Metahumans are more expensive, because the exponential Attribute costs make buying their Attributes up more expensive. You do save on metahumans if you don't buy up their "favored" Attributes, but that is kind of shooting yourself in the foot.
For character building advice for Karmagen, I would say:
For humans, usually you can have a decent Edge or a decent Magic, not both.
For specialists, don't worry. You can build them, and they still usually come out ahead of what they do in Build Points.
For generalists, rejoice, because low to middle Attributes and skills are very cheap - if you don't buy either of them up high, you will be able to afford a lot more than you would under Build Points.
Knowledge skills will really test your resolve as a roleplayer, because you don't get them for free, any longer.
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Every one including the people that write the character generators think differently. It is some what ambiguous in the writing, but it makes no sense the include special attributes in the cap. We can play grammer games with the sentence or go with what makes sense.
Humans can have both under karma-gen.
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I've often wondered why the differences in the Karma and BP CharGen systems on the issues of Special Attributes and Knowledge Skills.
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I've often wondered why the differences in the Karma and BP CharGen systems on the issues of Special Attributes and Knowledge Skills.
There is some debate as to whether special attributes fall under the half karma cap. The debate was won by the "not under the cap people long ago" The wording was misleading and somewhat ambiguous. No one I have ever talked to has ever used the special attributes under the core attribute cap. Because karma-gen allows for so many more skills than BP they just make you buy them.
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I've often wondered why the differences in the Karma and BP CharGen systems on the issues of Special Attributes and Knowledge Skills.
There is some debate as to whether special attributes fall under the half karma cap. The debate was won by the "not under the cap people long ago" The wording was misleading and somewhat ambiguous. No one I have ever talked to has ever used the special attributes under the core attribute cap.
That makes sense. Otherwise things seem a little skewed.
Because karma-gen allows for so many more skills than BP they just make you buy them.
I'm just wondering whether people do bother to buy them to the same extent that the free ones are given under the BP system. I can see players balking at buying "Elven Wines" if they could get "Pistols", for example.
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I'm just wondering whether people do bother to buy them to the same extent that the free ones are given under the BP system. I can see players balking at buying "Elven Wines" if they could get "Pistols", for example.
I can't speak for others, but my main character build at least has a bout half a dozen knowledge skill and speak something like 7-8 languages.
But ofcource she's now days(after the changes to karmagen) a 1000 karma character.
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I'm just wondering whether people do bother to buy them to the same extent that the free ones are given under the BP system. I can see players balking at buying "Elven Wines" if they could get "Pistols", for example.
When you already have lots of active skills at usable level it makes buy knowledge less painful. In most of the games I play in knowledge skill become important so I usually have a fair amount of knowledge skills.
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Knowledge is power! ;D Knowing is half the battle. ;D
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I'm just wondering whether people do bother to buy them to the same extent that the free ones are given under the BP system. I can see players balking at buying "Elven Wines" if they could get "Pistols", for example.
When you already have lots of active skills at usable level it makes buy knowledge less painful. In most of the games I play in knowledge skill become important so I usually have a fair amount of knowledge skills.
I was actually surprised when a knowledge skill i made up. (i think i've now seen it has an equivalent somewhere) but i picked Human Anatomy/Biology. (can't remember which word i used) Anyways it came in handy in getting my Dective contact a promotion. Someone had gotten to our group's mage in the hospital. (he had erased so he was forgotten there so I was searching for him along with "Lord Necrosis". (who's a female) so a hot female nurse walked up to him and basically killed him while he had mage handcuff's on. Offical death was "Death by heart attack".
Considering the reason he was in the hospital was a gunshot wound to the back of the head.... (rolled my knowledge to see if my character would know that and could convince him with my character's knowledge and my dective friend checked it after a few "are you sure? I'll be risking my job if your wrong."
Didn't think i'd ever use a knowledge skill myself.
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Knowledge is power! ;D Knowing is half the battle. ;D
YOOOOOO JO....nevermind.
Information is ammunition....oops! Sorry, wrong game. I hate it when two of my favorite games are made by the same company....no I don't HA!
Actually, I've used knowedge skills quite often in-game, especially when dealing with contacts. Try talking to professional without having at least a working idea of what they do...or what they could do for you. Knowledge skills, as I use them, help the player talk to others so they can at least have a conversation and the player dosen't look like a total idiot. I once played a street sam who knew a lot about beer...aside from drinking it. It was this knowledge that ended up with a conversation about "real beer" with a bartender who became a very good contact for me in that game. And the discount and access to "the good stuff" was a nice perk.
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Couldn't you use Knowledge Skills as Complementary Skills in SR3 to get extra successes on Tests? Hmmmm - now where do I find that information without spending hours flicking through SR3 books, until I realize it might have been a different edition...
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Couldn't you use Knowledge Skills as Complementary Skills in SR3 to get extra successes on Tests? Hmmmm - now where do I find that information without spending hours flicking through SR3 books, until I realize it might have been a different edition...
That sounds correct. Probably in the section dealing with skills, around knowledge skills.
Not that many pages to look through. Would do it for you if I could reach my book but it is at home and I'm not.
Rasmus
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Couldn't you use Knowledge Skills as Complementary Skills in SR3 to get extra successes on Tests? Hmmmm - now where do I find that information without spending hours flicking through SR3 books, until I realize it might have been a different edition...
That sounds correct. Probably in the section dealing with skills, around knowledge skills.
Not that many pages to look through. Would do it for you if I could reach my book but it is at home and I'm not.
Rasmus
Well, at least you narrowed it down to the BBB! To the Book Cave!
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Couldn't you use Knowledge Skills as Complementary Skills in SR3 to get extra successes on Tests? Hmmmm - now where do I find that information without spending hours flicking through SR3 books, until I realize it might have been a different edition...
That sounds correct. Probably in the section dealing with skills, around knowledge skills.
Not that many pages to look through. Would do it for you if I could reach my book but it is at home and I'm not.
Rasmus
Well, at least you narrowed it down to the BBB! To the Book Cave!
Hope I'm correct in my guess then 8)
Good hunting and let us know what you find.
Rasmus
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Couldn't you use Knowledge Skills as Complementary Skills in SR3 to get extra successes on Tests? Hmmmm - now where do I find that information without spending hours flicking through SR3 books, until I realize it might have been a different edition...
That sounds correct. Probably in the section dealing with skills, around knowledge skills.
Not that many pages to look through. Would do it for you if I could reach my book but it is at home and I'm not.
Rasmus
Well, at least you narrowed it down to the BBB! To the Book Cave!
Hope I'm correct in my guess then 8)
Good hunting and let us know what you find.
Rasmus
Every 2 successes from a Complimentary Skill Test count as 1 Success to the Active Skill Test (but the Active Skill Test needs to score at least 1 success) (p97, SR3). Background Skills don't count as Complimentary Skills, and there are a couple of occasions where Active Skills count. The example uses Psychology as a Complimentary Skill for a Negotiation Test (just what we need - more dice available for Social Tests :P - although, to be fair, these Social Tests were fairly hampered in SR3, compared to SR4A).
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I like the idea of using knowledge skills more but I'm not sure SR4 dicepools need help getting bigger ;)
Rasmus
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I like the idea of using knowledge skills more but I'm not sure SR4 dicepools need help getting bigger ;)
Rasmus
Yeah - they are big enough (bigger than the designers originally thought, and then bigger when they started throwing petrol on the fire added sourcebooks with new ways of increase them). I still like the idea, but sanity must prevail.
While reading the SR3 BBB, I noticed the use of Background Skills - free Knowledge Skills based on Active Skills to reflect knowledge you picked up from learning - ie - you learn about guns by learning to shoot guns. It brought back memories of the evil GM in me thinking about making players pay for these Background Skills before they could advance their Active Skills, or the Active Skills cost more (kinda like Active Skills cost more if they exceeded the linked-Attribute (or whatever it was called)...
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1) Know the style of game your about to play in. A Private Investigator may not mess in a black ops game, a combat machine may not fit into the 'mission: impossible" style infiltration/subversion style game. Fit the style or your character will spend most his time waiting to do something
2) Have a theme/gimic somthing that makes your character stand out from a roleplaying perspective. Something not 'annoying', but gives your character a greater sense uniqueness. A quirk, a habit, a common phrase.
3) Specialise in some knowledge that will be useful on a semi-regular basis - be the Mafia expert, the ex-corper, the magic creature expert. Be an expert in something that will come into play... but don't specialise too much. And work with the GM on this one. Maybe hmm... 'Japanese Corps' or 'organised crime'.
4) Have a role in the team that is yours, and make that role something other then 'killing machine'. Whose the Face? Whose the Hacker/Technomance/IT systems guy?, whose the security systems/infiltration guy? Whose the magic master? Whose our driver? Then expand that role beyond the minimum. The driver could also be the drone expert, who also has contacts that speciliase in smuggling and fake SINs. The Face is also well connected, is also good at blending in at functions, etc. The Magic user has a combat spell or two, but can also assense, use ritual magic to track targets etc. Try mix and matching, the magic user whose spells are all 'face' type or 'infiltration' type.
5) Roleplay your character. Make something that you will actual roleplay. Don't spend all session min/maxing your character and telling everyone how cool your character is. Show us how cool your character is.
6) Feel free to use your favourite tv/movie/game character, but then make it your own. Most 'heroes' are solo players, you need to make your character a team player. Use the inspiration from whereever it comes, but then make it fit the game and the team
7) Have a background story with hooks. Don't overburden your character with every possible trageity, but give your character some.. character. Have family, friends, ex-loves, enemies, rivals. Have a reason to be a runner other then 'i need the cash'. Have an end goal, anything from ' I want to open a gun shop' to 'I want to make megacorp X pay for firing me!'. Gives you something to work towards and gives your GM something to make the missions more interesting
8) Have at least some ability in the following: Firearms, unarmed combat, dodge, perception. Nothing worse then the Troll, whose great with longarms and machine guns, prove to have no skills in pistols or unarmed combat.
9)carry a backup weapon... just in case. Something small and concealable, maybe ceramic.
10) Have as many contacts as possible, and flesh them out for the GM
11) Have as many SINS as possible. Perpare to loose a few.
12) Have licenses for your weapons, but don't expect a licence to fly when you walk down the street with your SMG swinging at your hip. KE aren't that slow.
13)Be ready to remake your character. Its only through game play that you find out how your character works. What seems good on paper may prove to work differently during the run.
14) Have fun, its the golden rule! :)
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Always start and end character creation by asking yourself "why is this character not an ork." If you don't have a good answer you should be an ork.
amen
Also why are binding and decompiling trap options?
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Always start and end character creation by asking yourself "why is this character not an ork." If you don't have a good answer you should be an ork.
amen
Also why are binding and decompiling trap options?
I think you mean banishing and decompiling, correct? Assuming you do, basically, its too big an investment for what they actually do. Its a whole separate skill, which is a big build point investment, for an attack that can only be used on one type of target for one effect. If you have to get rid of a spirit have the mage stunbolt it or have the melee adept punch it in the face. Less drain, they already have the skill, and its just as if not more effective than trying to banish it.
Dealing with a sprite is slightly less clear, but for me it boils down to rarity. Unless one of the major campaign elements is going to be a dissonance cult, hostile technomancers with a combat sprite on tap are going to be super rare, and on the odd chance they do turn up you handle it the way you handle IC, throw your combat sprite at it and do what you came to do. Burning a bunch of build points to decompile is a poor use of of the build points.
Edited for spelling and typos.
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Thanks I'll keep that in mind for my technomancer I'm making for pbp
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The other big thing is that they are HUGELY dangerous skills to use. You try to banish something? Whoops, it was a bound spirit. Try to banish a force 6 spirit bound by a Magic 6 magician? Say hello to it rolling 12 dice, and you taking drain equal to twice its hits. That's not something you want in the middle of a fight - and you often have no way of knowing in advance how powerful the binder was. It gets even worse if you try to banish a great form spirit - you can have a Magic 5 magician with 1 initiation bind a spirit that slaps you in the face for 16 dice when you try to banish it. This means that even if you do have Banishing, it's often too dangerous to use. Decompiling is pretty similar - you're better off using the other, more versatile skills you want anyways to deal with spirits/sprites.
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Banishing has a niche now that there are possession traditions - it is a way to get rid of a spirit that is possessing one of your fellow runners without damaging the possessed runner. But there is still always "Oh well, I never liked him much anyway - mana bolt!"
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If I was concerned about that, I'd rather take a specialized spell to handle that problem - for example, Mana Static - for 3 bp/5 karma, rather than an entirely new skill.
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Banishing has a niche now that there are possession traditions - it is a way to get rid of a spirit that is possessing one of your fellow runners without damaging the possessed runner. But there is still always "Oh well, I never liked him much anyway - mana bolt!"
Never use manabolt on a possessed creature. Their physical attributes are raised by the spirit's force. Their Stun track, however, remains the same. SnS or Stunbolt is what you want to use on living creatures that have been possessed. Vehicles or Drones that have been possessed? Panther XXL. Accept no substitutes.
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Panther XXL. Accept no substitutes.
How about a GM Heavy Cannon?
I think 17P, AP -8 is pretty good. Plus, you know, it usually comes with a tank to carry it around on.
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About the only do and don't I think people need to do is.
Do: Learn the style of play of your table.
Don't: Make a character that goes against the style of the table you are playing at and wreck the fun for others.
If you know those two things chances are your character will work out.
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Panther XXL. Accept no substitutes.
How about a GM Heavy Cannon?
I think 17P, AP -8 is pretty good. Plus, you know, it usually comes with a tank to carry it around on.
You're right about that, but the panther XXL you can still put in the back of your van so Lonestar or Knight Errant don't see it immediately. Kinda difficult with a tank. Unless you get one of those inflatable decoys, but then the gun doesn't work anymore. :o
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Panther XXL. Accept no substitutes.
How about a GM Heavy Cannon?
I think 17P, AP -8 is pretty good. Plus, you know, it usually comes with a tank to carry it around on.
You're right about that, but the panther XXL you can still put in the back of your van so Lonestar or Knight Errant don't see it immediately. Kinda difficult with a tank. Unless you get one of those inflatable decoys, but then the gun doesn't work anymore. :o
That's what you have gyro-linked, Reinforced, Concealed, Remote Heavy Turrets for.
10 mod slots and boom, your Bulldog gets a "Camper Top" that sprouts a heavy turret on command... might want to be careful firing it while driving, though.
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Panther XXL. Accept no substitutes.
How about a GM Heavy Cannon?
I think 17P, AP -8 is pretty good. Plus, you know, it usually comes with a tank to carry it around on.
You're right about that, but the panther XXL you can still put in the back of your van so Lonestar or Knight Errant don't see it immediately. Kinda difficult with a tank. Unless you get one of those inflatable decoys, but then the gun doesn't work anymore. :o
That's what you have gyro-linked, Reinforced, Concealed, Remote Heavy Turrets for.
10 mod slots and boom, your Bulldog gets a "Camper Top" that sprouts a heavy turret on command... might want to be careful firing it while driving, though.
All you need to do is mod the Panther to be belt fed and full auto, and then you're set...