Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: StarManta on <07-31-11/2129:45>
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I've yet to encounter a dragon in any way in Shadowrun, so I'm curious: for those player brave/stupid enough (or those GMs mean enough) to come into contact with a dragon, what have your experiences been? As a moderately new GM, should I even attempt it?
(I'm not worried that the player group I'm considering this encounter for will take it badly; they're extremely combat-heavy and their characters are a little psychotic. They'd relish the chance, everyone's aware of how mortal characters in Shadowrun can be, and they'd proudly tell the story of how they managed to wound a dragon before it killed them.)
A few things I know I'll need to work on first:
1) Dragons know "most spells", so I should probably learn most of the spells as well, to know what's available to use against the team. Also, becoming more practiced in using magic in general.
2) Engineering an encounter. The team's already slaughtered two small street gangs (after only 3 gaming sessions!), so I don't think it'll be an issue to put them into a position to kill someone the dragon rather liked, pissing it off.
3) Simulate combats between the characters and the dragon, to know what its weaknesses will be before discovering them in combat (the dragon certainly would know and avoid its own weaknesses)
I plan on this encounter being the climax to a multi-run storyline which runs parallel to the Ghost Cartels campaign they're running through right now.
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As straight out critters, 'standard' dragons are easy to beat by a well armed party of Shadowrunners. They just don't have enough armour to soak big weapons (even though it's hardened armour, it's just not enough).
The most effective way I've found to get dragons to challenge the group are to use magical powers to Buff the critter up, rather than rely on them as just another Spellflinger.
The ways to make dragons really scary are to just layer on magical protections and Initiate powers that can all have been cast well in advance (so a dragon never has it's defenses 'down':
- Metamagic: Shielding
- Metamagic: Centering (Gesture)
- Metamagic: Absorption
- Metamagic: Quickening
- Metamagic: Anchoring
- Quickened Improved Reflexes spell (4-5 Initiative Passes :) )
- Anchored Physical Barrier spells (with variable triggers that can range from an automatic trigger to a deliberate Keyword)... Shield's up!
- Anchored/Quickened Armour spells
- Magical Focus: Counterspelling
So, between massive attributes (Body and Willpower) plus Counterspelling, Shielding and Counterspelling focus, they'll be VERY difficult to attack magically.
With the layered physical barrier and physical armour spells, they can withstand some pretty big hits (but NOT indefinately!)
Also, dragons have great summoning abilities (which can be attended to ahead of time) and can summon pretty much ANY type of spirit, but NEVER blood spirits...), so there's never any reason for a dragon to be caught on it's own. And if you want to be REALLY nasty, you can give a dragon:
- Metamagic: Invoking
- Metamagic: Channelling
at which point the dragon becomes an Uber-dragon with attributes you wounldn't believe via a Great Form spirit merging with the critter.
This also greatly increases the Hardened Armour (by replacing it with 2x Spirit Magic, instead of the 8/8 a dragon normally has). You need APDS ammo and some very accurate hits to break through
And for general hints:
- Use EDGE! Dragons have it, and they're good at it. Do not forget to use it....
- Kill one thing quickly: Dragons are hunters, and intelligent. They will make the best decision and follow it through...especially focusing on any Mages/Heavy weapons...whatever is the biggest threat to them should expect to get all their attention focues, and be torn to shreads accordingly.
- Change their breath weapon: Everybody expects dragons to breathe fire, and willd efend accordingly. Options exist to give them a different elemental effect (my favourite is Blast from Street Magic, but the cheesiest option is Sound (which ignores all armour)
- Dragons can have regeneration, which means they're more likely blitzkrieg attack,take a few hits, leave for a minute or two, then return fully healed to attack from a different angle. Dragons are clever and cunning, and may enjoy playing with their food
- Don't continue a losing situation/strategy: If the troll with a polearm weapon focus is actually doing damage, retreat to an aerial position so they can't d that anymore...
- Be SCARY! If the dragon manages to geek the mage, spend an action biting down on the body and tossing it contemptuously through a wall while roaring vicotriously. If dragon is a little wounded, pick up an injured/dead runner and carry it away as a snack
- Dragon fights should be memorable. They should be prime runners and then some. Unfortunately, if meeting a dragon in a combat situation, the easiest way to be memorable is to have your ass handed to you, or at the very BEST, a Pyhrric victory where most of your team were slaughtered in the process....
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All dragons typically fight near their own personal ketchup factory...
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All dragons typically fight near their own personal ketchup factory...
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup...'
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Exactly. So you know each one owns their own factory.
Lofwyr probably owns one in every city that he probably will have to visit. A warehouse in the secondary locations. :P
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Exactly. So you know each one owns their own factory.
Pretty sure some of them prefer mustard or barbecue sauce (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0098.html)...
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Do the ones from Central and South America prefer Hot Sauce?
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Do the ones from Central and South America prefer Hot Sauce?
Japanese prefer Wasabi.... which of course also melts most of the meal like acid before they eat it...
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Do the ones from Central and South America prefer Hot Sauce?
Japanese prefer Wasabi.... which of course also melts most of the meal like acid before they eat it...
Mmmm... Street Sammy Slurpees!
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Don't get me started, FastJack.
I live in the most insane city possible.
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Don't get me started, FastJack.
I live in the most insane city possible.
Juarez?
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Winnipeg.
One of the harshest winters by CANADIAN standards, and what do the locals do in the middle of it?
Buy ice drinks!!! To the point that more are bought per capita than anywhere else in the world!
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Ordinarily I'd be annoyed at a serious inquiry so quickly turning into a joke thread, but Charybdis pretty much got everything covered in the first reply. So... continue :D
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The first thing I do in ANY RPG system that uses dragons, is make sure I have a copy of Dragonslayer on hand.
Vermathrax is a great example of a dragon's combat capabilities. I make sure everyone has seen the film. I then remind them that the dragon they're contemplating fighting is different from Vermathrax in that Vermathrax is a beast and not very intelligent (human intelligence at best; brute animal intelligence in most cases). I also remind them that the dragon they're contemplating going up against is different from Vermathrax in a second way, it can use spells.
Usually, they then begin to avoid or try to pacify the the dragon, or any dragon, or anything like a dragon, or anything that could be a dragon, or anything with a name sounding like "dragon," or large lizards, and in extreme cases, anything that is even possibly dragon-like larger than a gecko.
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As straight out critters, 'standard' dragons are easy to beat by a well armed party of Shadowrunners. They just don't have enough armour to soak big weapons (even though it's hardened armour, it's just not enough).
The most effective way I've found to get dragons to challenge the group are to use magical powers to Buff the critter up, rather than rely on them as just another Spellflinger.
The ways to make dragons really scary are to just layer on magical protections and Initiate powers that can all have been cast well in advance (so a dragon never has it's defenses 'down':
- Metamagic: Shielding
- Metamagic: Centering (Gesture)
- Metamagic: Absorption
- Metamagic: Quickening
- Metamagic: Anchoring
- Quickened Improved Reflexes spell (4-5 Initiative Passes :) )
- Anchored Physical Barrier spells (with variable triggers that can range from an automatic trigger to a deliberate Keyword)... Shield's up!
- Anchored/Quickened Armour spells
- Magical Focus: Counterspelling
So, between massive attributes (Body and Willpower) plus Counterspelling, Shielding and Counterspelling focus, they'll be VERY difficult to attack magically.
With the layered physical barrier and physical armour spells, they can withstand some pretty big hits (but NOT indefinately!)
Also, dragons have great summoning abilities (which can be attended to ahead of time) and can summon pretty much ANY type of spirit, but NEVER blood spirits...), so there's never any reason for a dragon to be caught on it's own. And if you want to be REALLY nasty, you can give a dragon:
- Metamagic: Invoking
- Metamagic: Channelling
at which point the dragon becomes an Uber-dragon with attributes you wounldn't believe via a Great Form spirit merging with the critter.
This also greatly increases the Hardened Armour (by replacing it with 2x Spirit Magic, instead of the 8/8 a dragon normally has). You need APDS ammo and some very accurate hits to break through
And for general hints:
- Use EDGE! Dragons have it, and they're good at it. Do not forget to use it....
- Kill one thing quickly: Dragons are hunters, and intelligent. They will make the best decision and follow it through...especially focusing on any Mages/Heavy weapons...whatever is the biggest threat to them should expect to get all their attention focues, and be torn to shreads accordingly.
- Change their breath weapon: Everybody expects dragons to breathe fire, and willd efend accordingly. Options exist to give them a different elemental effect (my favourite is Blast from Street Magic, but the cheesiest option is Sound (which ignores all armour)
- Dragons can have regeneration, which means they're more likely blitzkrieg attack,take a few hits, leave for a minute or two, then return fully healed to attack from a different angle. Dragons are clever and cunning, and may enjoy playing with their food
- Don't continue a losing situation/strategy: If the troll with a polearm weapon focus is actually doing damage, retreat to an aerial position so they can't d that anymore...
- Be SCARY! If the dragon manages to geek the mage, spend an action biting down on the body and tossing it contemptuously through a wall while roaring vicotriously. If dragon is a little wounded, pick up an injured/dead runner and carry it away as a snack
- Dragon fights should be memorable. They should be prime runners and then some. Unfortunately, if meeting a dragon in a combat situation, the easiest way to be memorable is to have your ass handed to you, or at the very BEST, a Pyhrric victory where most of your team were slaughtered in the process....
The encounters with Dragons thing I would stress is that except in the most rarest conceivable senarios the players will be showing up to a catered suprise party they are the guest of honors of. The most dangerous element of dealing with the Dragon is the large grey mass situated betwixt its ears. Its experience, intelligence, insight, and pride at being the most dangerous sentient thing in exsistence make it deadly not only in a combat sense but as a being whose manipulations could have had you working for its ends for years and you never knew it. Dragons sit, scheme, and grow their power daily doing it. If your Runners are so good they can find a Dragons doorbell the dragon has files on them and maybe a birddog on them. If a Runner is walking and talking in a room with a Dragon it is because it was on the Dragons schedule, at least in pencil, for weeks. When that Runner team is in a Dragons presence it knows their methodology, ability, weapons, and may have a good guess of what they would do to adjust to take on his scaly hide. If it came to a fight it wouldn't fight fair and would be prepared. How would depend on the Dragon but it would be a reflection of how serious it takes survival and how smart it is.
In short the first post mentioned how a seasoned, armed like Armagedon, and intensely ambitious Shadowrunner crew that had exceedingly good intel on the inner workings and capacities of a Dragon would and could fair with a Dragon and what the Dragons general tactics would be against that onslaught. The Dragons advocate would stress that the Dragon is not asleep upon its pile in a cave awaiting the first move by these would be lizard eliminators. He will be in control of his environment, himself, and will have the best handle on controling his opponets imaginable. He would control if a fight could ever take place before it ever had a chance to happen.
Lastly: Try to include the sense of its too good to be true with every dealing to begin with and the horrible buyers remorse at the end. Most stress as the feeling of dealing with a Dragon.
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Want to make the dragon fight memorable? Have it not happen at all...
All the 'Runners kitted out in their finest illegal armour and weapons, the Dragon in his/her "Weak" Metahuman form, and just a quiet comment of, "That's all you're bringing? You're not even worth my time."
And is gone. Just gone.
Then find out what happens when a dragon puts you on a black list... Even Bubba The Love Troll wouldn't touch you with a three metre stun baton!
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In all seriousness, there is a reason that one of the main mottos of the game has been "Shoot straight, conserve ammo, and never cut a deal with a dragon." Not sure if it showed up in 4E, but it's been the bit of knowledge every runner should know since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. And the reason for that is because the dragon WILL win. And usually come out smelling like roses. In Shadowrun, they are the deus ex machina. Even hatchlings come out dangerous as hell, and they only get worse from there.
Best bet for runners, is to avoid dragons. Best bet for a GM, is to wait for a couple of months of street level runs, and then have the dragon announce that they have been working for him through intermediaries for a while now, and their ability to surprise him is greatly reduced. You have to get up awfully early to surprise a dragon. Like, back in the Fourth World early...
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Even IMs have issues with getting an upper hand on dragons.
Harlequin being an exception, as no one can predict what that nut bar will do, even with magic. ;D
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Hey! I love that nut bar! In a completely hetero-platonic way...
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And I said I didn't? I miss his posts, actually. Frosty doesn't even come close...
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Best bet for runners, is to avoid dragons. Best bet for a GM, is to wait for a couple of months of street level runs, and then have the dragon announce that they have been working for him through intermediaries for a while now, and their ability to surprise him is greatly reduced. You have to get up awfully early to surprise a dragon. Like, back in the Fourth World early...
In one group I GMed the only (known) contact they had with a dragon was done in a very similar way to this. They'd been doing a few "side jobs" - straightforward info gathering, the occasional data grab or item swipe, really straight shadowrunner stuff - for a Mr. J that had no real paper trail to follow. Right in the middle of one job, they were recalled to meet "the boss" and learned "the boss" was a fairly young dragon (well, young for a dragon). Only reason they ever found out was their actions had lead to something very important of her's being taken in retaliation and she wanted it back, thus having to reveal her nature because of what the item was.
When she, surprisingly couldn't tell them much because she didn't know much, one player basicalyy said "Don't all you dragons have huge networks to gather intel from?" to which she replied. "yes, and you're part of it." I was later told that "off the cuff" reply (off the cuff as a GM that is) was one of the most ominous things they had ever heard in a SR game.
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Sweet job, Cat!