Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: StarManta on <08-06-11/2258:01>
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Besides all the team-versus-team fights, I'd like to have one opponent - a sociopath and a loner - who is so skilled and experienced that he can, by himself, hold his own against the entire team (at least long enough to make a getaway, if not long enough to actually fight). I would also like him to not just insta-kill anyone he aims for. Does anyone have any experience in balancing an opponent like this?
The obvious first answer is "use stun ammo", but to further complicate the issue, he's really, REALLY not the type of character to use stun. Being bloodthirsty is fundamental to his character.
So far what I do have is him setting traps and throwing out one or two grenades prior to combat actually starting.
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Ahem... GM discretion. The fight lasts as long as you need or want it to for story purposes, at which point some intervening event or escape sequence or whatever begins.
Nothing says, (or even suggests), that game balance control is a matter of making things be somehow equivalent in points or even expressed as stat blocks.
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In a pinch, that is the plan.
My philosophy on "GM discretion" is to use it in game when needed, but to not rely on it as a part of the design of the run. In other words, if I do manage to carefully balance this opponent, run a couple of test fight scenarios on my own, and find him pretty balanced, and then on his first attack against a player he happens to roll a crit success (or vice versa)... I apply GM fiat there. But I'd rather only apply it as a last resort.
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Strategy is more likely to be much more effective than your numbers here. What you need to ask yourself is:
- Does the Individual know the runners (and how much does he know if that's a yes)?
-- Why? If he knows them well, he'll know their strengths and weaknesses.
-How intelligent is he?
-- Why? The more intelligent, the more likely he is to come up with ingenious plans.
I've had a sniper contain a group of eight players for most of a session (and they loved it).
I've had s mastermind and his lair entertain players for three sessions (felt a bit D&Dish but they still enjoyed it).
Now, that said, why is this individual confronting/being confronted by the runners alone? A smart villain will find a way to have some muscle around, a really smart villain can do it without them knowing he's pulling the strings.
Traps Ideas:
Monowire Tripwires with cover from Smoke Grenades (For a deadlier trap, replace tripwires with Claymores).
Grenade Nets (Large weighted nets with Grenades, slow em down and frag em. Add some IR smoke grens in to confuse them at the same time).
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Don't forget to take into consideration the Conservation of Ninjitsu (AKA: The Inverse Ninja Law) (http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/17p70/).
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The opponent would have to be tough and smart or use a lot of drones.
Check out the 800 point character thread on dumpshock for some ideas, particularly post 55. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23592
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Well, using the Batman Method into the idea of "The Insane Loner Versus A Group", I would go with Batman's superpower: Money.
Suddenly the loner is nowhere to be found, and the group is dealing with a bunch of better skilled, equipped, costly Shadowrunners that had just been paid to shoot THEM in the face for money.
Even if they defeat that group, they'll be nice and vulnerable for said Loner to take them out all the easier.
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If you want a Solo NPC (Big Bad End Guy, aka BBEG) who works alone to be able to face-to-face take on and win against a team, these are the kinds of options you need. I recommend all of them, but any of them will assist.
The best example I can think of in this regard is the Boba-Fett adventures. He's just a well-trained bounty hunter with some cool gear, but even as just one man he regularly takes out ridiculously large groups of enemies when required....
- Strengths vs Weaknesses: Build the BBEG to take out the team. Understand what they can't defend against (close combat, ranged etc) and build the BBEG to take advantage of that.
- Distractions. You need something to keep the team from focusing fire and attention on the BBEG. I recommend pre-planted explosives, drones, even just wired sound systems and decoy RFID's/Commlinks making it seem mmore enemies are in the area
- Drone guns: depending on BBEG tech level, a few well placed drone-guns (or flying drone-mounted weapons) will split the groups attention and firepower
- Magic defenses: If choosing the ground and not magically active, make sure the fight happens in a Background count. A clever BBEG can find such a count using Manatech sensors, and can know that any magical support will be greatly diminished in the area.
- Defense-pool: Armour isn't enough to soak big damage in SR4, not legitimately and it's better to dodge the attack entirely ;) You need to invoke whatever rules you want to get this guy a dodge pool of 15 plus (I recommend move-by-wire, genetic optimisation:REACTION and Genetic infusion:REAKT) and combat sense if the BBEG is a PhysAd.
- Guerilla tactics: (Ambush/Shoot/Hide)and repeat sequence. This is a canon military tactic when fighting superior numbers.
- Armour and cover: Armour is good, but not the be all and end all. SR4 favours bullets over armour, so while this will keep the glancing blows from ticking up,
- If it's all-or nothing for the BBEG, make sure a Pain Editor is installed to remove those pesky wound modifiers. I don't recommend a Pain-Editor for a shadowrunner, as it removes you ability to realise you're too far gone to flee. But if fleeing is already not an option, the Pain Edotor makes perfect sense ;)
- Dead-mans-Trigger: Even if the PC's win, make sure they know that there are enough explosives packed into the BBEG or area that they need to get out Right-the-%$#@!-NOW! Any BBEG who acts alone is going to make damned sure to take down whomever killed them.
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The logical answer here is you build this guy to survive as much as possible, but not neccesarily make him an awesome shot. Or, to put it another way, maxed Reaction and Body (as a beginning), moderate Agility. Sticking plenty of stealth on him to execute the guerrilla tactics Charybdis mentioned is also a very good idea.
Have him lure them onto ground of his own choosing so he's got the background count, he's got his defences set up, so that he knows it and they don't and so on...
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One of the best ways to go about this 'luring' that is being mentioned is to execute an ambush that will fail to significantly harm, and then run away once the angry team IDs their attacker. Good time for a chase scene until Sid the Bad Guy gets them into his prepared area. If the runners start getting too close in the chase scene have a hired rigger throw road blocks in front of the team to slow them down some.
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Great thread.
This is actually one of my favorite Evil GM things to do, and I have done it using several different tactics.
Before you dive in (and this thread indicates that you are already aware of it, but it merits re-stating), be cognizant that this requires a bit of finesse. Unless you have a dead lock on gauging the power level of your PCs and a good grasp of their strengths and weaknesses, you need to be [WARNING!: NON-GMs MAY NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT] willing to fudge a few things. Nothing drastic, but have a plan for what happens if your Lone Wolf Villain is too weak or too powerful...really, any Arch-Villain worth his salt should have an escape plan, but have a rescue plan for if you come on too hard - the Calvary arriving at the last minute is always nice, chasing off the Bad Guy...I'm a fan of collapsing bridges, daring chase scenes in which the PCs narrowly escape, external factors beyond the Villain's control (the hockey game gets out and the street is suddenly flooded with witnesses), or (another favorite) the experimental equipment that the Villain is using doesn't have all of the bugs worked out and it fails at just the right moment to avoid a TPK.
As for the HOW, you have a plethora of options. Just decide if you want the Uber-Combat Battle Suit, the pesky ninja (I <3 Pesky Ninjas! (as an erstwhile pesky ninja, I may be biased)), or the Bizarre/Unholy Cosmic Power route. There are countless others, but most are familiar with those.
I will throw out just a couple of examples:
In Traveller, I had a Zhodani Rogue with some serious Psi mojo that was the party's most hated enemy (I'm pretty sure if I called any of them up, now, 20 years later, and said "Raphael" they would start muttering profanities) - his deal wasn't that he was a combat monster, or even particularly good at any one thing. He just had the ultimate bag of tricks up his sleeve. From ambush, he was good for taking out one, maybe two PCs (and only from ambush, they would have stomped him in a fair fight) - and he was extremely resourceful and mobile. If cornered, he would teleport. If outnumbered, sabotage and diversion. Reported to the authorities, he'd already bribed all the right officials to get the PCs framed instead.
Back in AD&D, I had an Anti-Paladin who could (and did) go toe-to-toe with the party, single-handed. Epic battle...no holds barred, no quarter asked nor given...the PCs literally had an army battering the doors to the throne room (if the PCs were going to all die, the Calvary was prepped and ready) - and for the Anti-Paladin, well - he ALWAYS had an escape plan. A Nightmare for a steed, so he could pretty much get away from anywhere, was his favorite - but later in the campaign, when things were really powered up, he'd gotten his hands on Artifact armor, and when decapitated by a Pesky Ninja (see above) his body transformed into serpents that slithered away. A moment of euphoria from the players at their great victory - followed seconds later by the crushing realization that they couldn't really be sure they had won at all.
Which leads me to my final point - there's more to this tactic than just balancing the opponents. You need to really keep an eye on the engagement and enjoyment levels of your players. This is an exercise in frustration. You need to challenge your players, and they will be furious with this Villain - but you have to walk that razors edge where they are in the "I am SO gonna get this @#$%!!!" zone, without crossing into the "The GM is never going to let us beat this guy, and is totally cheating!!!" region of frustration.
The PCs have to honestly believe that they are constantly on the very cusp of victory - it will keep them on the edge of their seats. But the moment they think that you're actively intervening to foil their righteous vengeance, the instant that they think that it is hopeless, you've lost them. With this plot device, with great risk, comes great reward...
-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend
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Thanks all, particularly JoeNapalm and Charybdis. +1 to each of you. I think I've got enough to plan this thing out now.
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I would add, if you want to play it by the book, such opponent, no matter what type of character it is, should have High Pain Tolerance, Toughness, and Tough as Nails as qualities, and high Edge and Willpower attributes (possibly even Exceptional Attribute (Willpower)), plus Magic Resistance if not Awakened. He is the Big Bad Guy afterall.
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Attacking the team in groups of 2 or 3, and have the villian really work them over, even if they win the fight
I used a shapeshifter assassin who used his fighter job as cover for him traveling the world. The assassin earned one player's respect because they could fight toe to toe full out in and out of the ring. Another character had a blood mage hunting him. Said blood mage hires the assassin to kill the 2nd character. The 2 characters worked in a garage as mechanics. One night, the assassin attacked both characters at once. 2 on 1 fight and the assassin nearly won until the fighter got in a good hit. The assassin jumped out of the building, then up to the roof. The fighter gave chase, and found out the assassin was a shapeshifter. The fighter never told his teammate that part...
I had the assassin show respect to the fighter. the 2nd character was looking over his shoulder for awhile after that fight
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When it comes to 1 vs the party, its all about location, location, location. If the players have control of the enviroment then its going to be a pasting for the NPC. If the NPC controls the enviroment then it is usually the other way around.
Mages and riggers are the two easiest 1 vs. many builds IMO, given their minion factor. That being said, a smart shooter is a PITA when using cover etc.
My favorite single antagonist however was the pissed off decker, who literally made the party's lives hell until the party hacker finally managed to land a trace and they smoked him.
All because one of the female PCs made a couple of crude jokes at his expense. Over course the jokes were really, really crude. 8)
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I've got a pretty solid plan for this fight, and have it on tonight's agenda (although, most likely, it won't actually take place until next week; there are at least 2 fights before it in the mission). In addition to the ambush taking place in an alleyway with plenty of cover for everybody, the alley is flanked by two cars on autopilot firing turrets at full auto using the Mark 47 Smartlink from WAR (an IFF system that allows a friendly fighter to jump into its suppressive fire field without risking being hit), creating overlapping suppressive fire fields through which he can move freely. He also has high Mystic Armor (in addition to his regular armor), Dodge with specialization in Ranged, and a Monofilament Whip and Claws as his melee weapons. Oh, did I mention he's a Wendigo?
....This'll be a fun fight. I haven't yet killed anyone this campaign.... I'ma kill someone with this guy.
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I've got a pretty solid plan for this fight, and have it on tonight's agenda (although, most likely, it won't actually take place until next week; there are at least 2 fights before it in the mission). In addition to the ambush taking place in an alleyway with plenty of cover for everybody, the alley is flanked by two cars on autopilot firing turrets at full auto using the Mark 47 Smartlink from WAR (an IFF system that allows a friendly fighter to jump into its suppressive fire field without risking being hit), creating overlapping suppressive fire fields through which he can move freely. He also has high Mystic Armor (in addition to his regular armor), Dodge with specialization in Ranged, and a Monofilament Whip and Claws as his melee weapons. Oh, did I mention he's a Wendigo?
....This'll be a fun fight. I haven't yet killed anyone this campaign.... I'ma kill someone with this guy.
Edge! 27 dice pool shot to try and take him out!!!! xD
Anyways, that sounds like a nasty situation to be in that's for sure. Are they not going to have a car of their own in the alley? (if they do i think they should ram their car into the one's firin at them. XD)
Good luck tonight. :D
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I've got a pretty solid plan for this fight, and have it on tonight's agenda (although, most likely, it won't actually take place until next week; there are at least 2 fights before it in the mission). In addition to the ambush taking place in an alleyway with plenty of cover for everybody, the alley is flanked by two cars on autopilot firing turrets at full auto using the Mark 47 Smartlink from WAR (an IFF system that allows a friendly fighter to jump into its suppressive fire field without risking being hit), creating overlapping suppressive fire fields through which he can move freely. He also has high Mystic Armor (in addition to his regular armor), Dodge with specialization in Ranged, and a Monofilament Whip and Claws as his melee weapons. Oh, did I mention he's a Wendigo?
....This'll be a fun fight. I haven't yet killed anyone this campaign.... I'ma kill someone with this guy.
Just remember Mystic armour doesn't count against spells.
Unless there's some counterspelling dice coming from somehere, or it's in a Background count area, any mage with LOS is going to pwn your combat monster....
find a way to keep the mages distracted... spirit allies maybe?
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I've got a pretty solid plan for this fight, and have it on tonight's agenda (although, most likely, it won't actually take place until next week; there are at least 2 fights before it in the mission). In addition to the ambush taking place in an alleyway with plenty of cover for everybody, the alley is flanked by two cars on autopilot firing turrets at full auto using the Mark 47 Smartlink from WAR (an IFF system that allows a friendly fighter to jump into its suppressive fire field without risking being hit), creating overlapping suppressive fire fields through which he can move freely. He also has high Mystic Armor (in addition to his regular armor), Dodge with specialization in Ranged, and a Monofilament Whip and Claws as his melee weapons. Oh, did I mention he's a Wendigo?
....This'll be a fun fight. I haven't yet killed anyone this campaign.... I'ma kill someone with this guy.
Just remember Mystic armour doesn't count against spells.
Unless there's some counterspelling dice coming from somehere, or it's in a Background count area, any mage with LOS is going to pwn your combat monster....
find a way to keep the mages distracted... spirit allies maybe?
Or shiny things.
Mages can't resist the shiny.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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My Mage can't resist the shiny, but he'll probably make someone else get it for him. XD
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Besides all the team-versus-team fights, I'd like to have one opponent - a sociopath and a loner - who is so skilled and experienced that he can, by himself, hold his own against the entire team (at least long enough to make a getaway, if not long enough to actually fight). I would also like him to not just insta-kill anyone he aims for. Does anyone have any experience in balancing an opponent like this?
The obvious first answer is "use stun ammo", but to further complicate the issue, he's really, REALLY not the type of character to use stun. Being bloodthirsty is fundamental to his character.
So far what I do have is him setting traps and throwing out one or two grenades prior to combat actually starting.
If I said I had a statblock (or two) that'd be useful for this purpose, is that something you might be interested in? (The catch is, he's a cyberzombie.)
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Besides all the team-versus-team fights, I'd like to have one opponent - a sociopath and a loner - who is so skilled and experienced that he can, by himself, hold his own against the entire team (at least long enough to make a getaway, if not long enough to actually fight). I would also like him to not just insta-kill anyone he aims for. Does anyone have any experience in balancing an opponent like this?
The obvious first answer is "use stun ammo", but to further complicate the issue, he's really, REALLY not the type of character to use stun. Being bloodthirsty is fundamental to his character.
So far what I do have is him setting traps and throwing out one or two grenades prior to combat actually starting.
If I said I had a statblock (or two) that'd be useful for this purpose, is that something you might be interested in? (The catch is, he's a cyberzombie.)
Well, I've already put together some stats (and, he's a Toxic Mystic Adept).
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kk
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Having the opposition be a single individual bloody sociopath who can engage a shadoowrun team as a sane action gives me a lot too work with in your scenario. I am just going by the fact he is driven, fights Shadowrunners, ruthless, skilled, experienced, and wants the Run team dead. Let's call him Dexter.
Dexter knows there is a team he wants guarding the bottom of the Sound. He encountered them tracking him or they are just ticking him off doing what they do. He passively surveils and gets the visable front page on the crew. After taking a good look at the team he pegs one of them as a target. They are smart and knowledgeable about the team seemingly but not the dangerous in up close combat, probably the mage. He tracks the mage to his house and does a little deeper digging to verify this threat and getting a handle on his abilities by breaking in when the mage is out. Confidant the mage is a good bet he does a quick misdirection trap. In the apartment, entry way, or parkinglot of the Mages house, Dexter puts something that will draw the Mage to investagate but seem less threatening but interesting enough to focus his attention long enough Dex comes in from behind the mage and dose him with a powerful sedative. Ambush ideas: Parking lot, Ticket on the guys windsheld is heavily taped/glued to the windshield and he becomes engaged taking it off til Dexter comes up behind or he puts 10 or 1w live chickens in his car and when he is going WTF Dex gets behind him. You get the jist.
Dexter immobilizes his victum, probably the Mage or Face, using copious plastic sheeting to secure them to a table in a prepared lair, sometimes in the victums home or very near where he took the victum,(neighbors apt? Boiler room?). He injects him with nanites will he is out. He gets up and Dex interrogates/ tortures the mage/Face to get info on the team, a fun RP extravaganza. Then he has the mage/face call one of his friends to come pick him up as long as he has told him everything and the friend bring 25k. While the victum is on the phone Dexter wounds him and let's the mage/face flip out on the phone to his pal. Dexter leaves them to talk 30 seconds and kills the fee and resedates his victum. He leaves a fuel bomb under the victum with wires to him but it doesn't function. His second target is the guy guarding the ride, the ride/Rigger, or if he keeps rolling after the drop he will attempt to trap the team inside saving their friend.
As they roll in they will be heavily armed and moving when they get to their bud. If they are more subtle this may mess Dex up and he will draw them out with texting a single frame image of their comrade unconcious to motivate them, he will keep the cell off at all other times. He will come from the opposite direction of the victum and engage the first target on his list. He is packing several EMP grenades to immobilize and a fuel bomb to toss under the vehicl and light it up. If the ride stays in motion Dex is gonna use the fuel bomb on the main exit in a FedEx style delivery box with a return notice typed out on it placed by the mailboxes. If they hit those stairs he will fire them up, cell detonator.
Anyway I am rambling but these hit and run tactics and a systematic disabling of the team is the way socio hitter would chip them down and take them apart a bit at a time. They would be put to the question of do we run at some point. You get into their heads the boogie man is gonna get them and he is not a stand up shoot out with a chiipped up football hooligan. They can have fun playing cat and mouse on the investagative side. They can worry about their contacts and dependents. Dexter has no intention of as much as be in the same building with the guys concious he is there so it makes fighting a lot easier on him. Eventually the party may turn the tables and take out old Dex. That will be the a great whale tale for the party, how they caught their Moby Dick. It will be a little more intricate than remembering the initiative rolls.
Sorry I overwrite and ramble. Ideas run wild out of me sometimes.
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I had a good idea for a Twisted Path Social Adept in SR3 (back when you could kick it up a notch with Potency, and before there were official Social Adept powers) - he was a pretty good build for holding his own against a team of 4 runners.