Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: PittsburghRPGA on <08-11-11/1506:13>
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Help me better tune this PC for a new player (never played SR at all) and for a GM who has never run a technomancer. Running in Denver using some of the old Missions along side Emergence, and eventually Ghost Cartels. Standard 400BP. Any other details needed, please ask. I've tried to be thorough.
Player really set on using the Networker Stream and Black Hat Paragon. The reality impaired NQ, combined with a love for the GTA clone game, leads to her incompenent ground vehicle NQ. She doesn't get why so called real world cars don't bounce off walls like in the game. And as a Media Junkie (Moderate), she's got to log into the game and do her dailys. And with the bounty on TMs because of the things in Emergence, she might as well take the Wanted NQ for the extra BPs.
And yes, I also asked about this on Dumpshock's forums too.
Thanks in advance for the help,
Eric
Street Name: w3Bz
Elf female Age 17
Height 6'2" Weight 117, red hair, pale skinned
== Concept ==
Technomancer Hacker/secondary face. Teen aged girl making her way in the big bad world. Using gear to pretend to be a decker. Just pulling herself out of street/squatter level life style, and ready to hit the deeper shadows.
== Notes ==
Stream: Networker
NQ: Wanted: There is currently a 40,000 nuyen bounty on live Technomancers at several corporations.
PQ: Paragon - The Black Hat - +1 die for Cracking Sprites (since as a Networker, she doesn't have fault sprites).
There is a Rigger/wheelman in the group and the player doesn't want to step on his toes, and she likes the idea hacker constantly in a VR world all the time concept a lot better.
== Attributes == 200BP for normal attributes, 60BP for Edge + Resonance
BOD: 3, AGI: 3, REA: 3, STR: 2, CHA: 6, INT: 4, LOG: 5, WIL: 5, EDG: 3, RES: 5
== Active Skills ==
Groups 50BP
Electronics 3, Cracking 1, Stealth 1 (broken out individually below)
Individual Skills 52BP
Compiling : 4 Pool: 9
Computer : 3 Pool: 8
Cybercombat : 1 Pool: 6
Data Search : 3 Pool: 8
Disguise : 1 Pool: 5
Electronic Warfare : 1 Pool: 6
Etiquette : 2 Pool: 8
Hacking : 1 Pool: 6
Hardware : 3 Pool: 8
Infiltration : 1 Pool: 4
Palming : 1 Pool: 4
Pistols : 2 [Semi-Automatics] Pool: 5 (7)
Registering : 4 [Crack Sprite] Pool: 9 (11)
Shadowing : 1 Pool: 5
Software : 3 Pool: 8
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Denver : 3 Pool: 7
Data Havens : 3 [N. America] Pool: 7 (9)
English : N [l33t speak]
French : 3
Gaming : 2 [Grand Larceny] Pool: 6 (
Gangs : 3 Pool: 7
Security Design : 3 [Matrix] Pool: 8 (10)
Sioux : 3 Pool: 7
Underworld : 2 [Matrix Crime] Pool: 6 (
== Contacts ==
Fixer (2, 1)
== Qualities ==
-35 in NQ, 10 in PQ
Allergy (Uncommon, Mild) (Wool)
Incompetent (Pilot Ground Craft)
Media Junkie (Moderate)
Reality Impaired
Wanted
Paragon (The Black Hat)
Technomancer
== Complex Forms == 23BP
Analyze Rating: 5
Armor Rating: 5
Command Rating: 3
Exploit Rating: 5
Stealth Rating: 5
== Gear == 7BP (not all of it spent so far)
Fake SIN Rating 4
+Fake License (FRFZ Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit (Subcompact)
+Fuzzy Logic
+Pilot Program Rating 3
+Vehicle Sensor
== Weapons ==
Colt Manhunter
+Laser Sight
DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 0
== Commlinks ==
Erika Elite (5, 4, 3, 4) (wants it to see believable for a young Hacker to be using this)
+Novatech Navi
+Suite: Pro User [Analyze 4, Browse 4, Command 2, Edit 4]
+Encrypt Rating 3
+Data Bomb Rating 3
+Stealth Rating 3
+Optimization (Analyze)
+Increased Response to 5
Living Persona (4 (5), 5, 5, 3)
+Living Persona
+Biofeedback Filter
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I play a charisma elf techno in missions currently (as my credentials and background).
If you want to tune this character here are some previous links of mine to other TM character assistance, and some current thoughts on this char:
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4241.msg59568#msg59568
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=3839.msg50965#msg50965
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=3982.msg53690#msg53690
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4270.msg60108#msg60108
Networker stream is not as good as technoshamman. Specifically they do not have machine sprites which are very good. Code and Sleuth sprites are nice, but TS also have Sleuth and Machine is better than Code.
Black Hat is an acceptable Paragon, she should have 35 points of Negative qualities, TMs need all the help they can get.
You want to soft-cap your charisma (for an elf this is 7, you can surge to 8). Hardcapping charisma is not terrible but is slightly inefficient. You do want to hardcap Resonance at 6. Str, Reaction, Agility, Intuition, Willpower, may all need to be cut. I’d suggest Edge 5.
Incompetence: Pilot Ground Vehicle is very harsh for a TM. It keeps you from rigging ground vehicles (except walkers which are anthroforms). You will want to rig ground vehicles, so this is not very good. You can work around it though, by using Lockheed Arachnids, Wuxing Hussars (with Walker Legs mod) and Lonestar Strato-9s.
If you are a hacker, you should also be a rigger. You can VR rig. The problem with just doing hacking, is it leaves you out in the cold whenever a meat world combat breaks out. You should be able to throw down and help your friends, and hacking/spoofing is not fast enough to do that. Get a drone that can fight, then get a rigger cocoon and be inside that drone.
Buy the Electronics group at 4. Computer, Datasearch, Software, and hardware are all good.
Drop Cybercombat, it is for fail and sadness. No one actually fights on the matrix, just jam yourself out.
Buy the whole stealth group at 1 rather than disguise 1, infiltrate 1, palming 1, shadowing 1.
If you are a hacker, you should have Hacking at 6.
Pistols are bad, for a TM get gunnery, you will be rigging. Etiquette may need to be dropped.
Get Resonace 6. It is the single most important thing about being a TM. It costs 6 karma to buy each complex form up to 6 in game, but only 1 BP. Get resonance 6, and CFs at 6. Armor is less good than Shield, but both are not critical. Spoof is critical, so is Command and Disarm. I know she does not want to be a rigger, but you need to be as a TM if you want to do stuff in meat world. If she wants to sit out large portions of the game because she is a new player, that’s acceptable but make sure she knows that.
There are better vehicles, if the Team already has a wheelman, just get drones. I’d start with a Doberman (they are almost as good as Arachnids) and a Strato-9.
The colt Manhutner is subpar, there are better guns, I’d get a taser for carrying around.
The Comlink is throwing away money that will never be used. It is a waste of resources. Get a cheap comlink for your fake SIN and take a decent on off someone you kill.
I have more comments but no time.
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Squee's advice is good, I will just add a few comments on the not wanting to rig thing.
Incompetence on Pilot Ground Craft is a pretty character-defining flaw but not hopeless; you can get sprites to pilot ground vehicles for you - but you REALLY should have machine sprites, because they are made of win and awesome. If she really wants the Networker stream for fluff reasons, then she should Submerge for Sprite Link to add on Machine Sprites ASAP. There are plenty of useful not-ground vehicles. I should also point out that part of what makes machine sprites good is that they can help everyone else out too, and this goes a long way towards making up for sucking at meatspace combat. They can also help the rigger out with Diagnostics.
On rigging: Basically, as a technomancer, you can be an acceptable rigger for a tiny amount of investment as a side effect of wanting to hack. It is 6 BP for command, and the rest of it you do by threading, Assist Operation, and getting machine sprites to help you. You can buy a perfectly decent starting drone with a rigger cocoon for under 10000Y. As a technomancer, deciding that you don't want to FOCUS on rigging is a totally reasonable choice, but it isn't a good idea not bothering to spend 10 bp to have something useful to do at times when hacking isn't helpful - and having played S2 Missions, there are significant parts where the ability to hack isn't useful (which nicely coincide with places where rigging is handy).
The other thing is that as a techno, you swiftly run out of things to spend money on that aren't rigging related and there are lots of fun things you can get - but if you don't cough up the 6 bp for command 6 at chargen, it will shaft you later as you have to pay 21 karma for it. Not starting with rigging skills (Gunnery, Infiltration, and Perception, mainly), on the other hand, is totally fine and you can default for now and pick them up with Biowire later.
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That reminds me: s2 missions gives you a whoooole pile of low Connection contacts as a side effect of your missions. I probably have 20-30 of them. So it is not a good idea to have a bunch of them at chargen. I would suggest either no starting contacts, and just pick up the ones that appear, or start with 1 connection 6 contact. Since she's supposed to be a Networkomancer, maybe go with a Runner's Companion "Group Contact?"
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I do honestly appreciate any help she and I can get. I know that with the webz, sometimes tone of voice isn't properly passed on. The tone I want to convey is one of calm matter-of-fact explanation. If I fail in that in any way, I apologize now ahead of time.
The young woman playing this teen age elf is completely new to the setting and mechanics of shadowrun. She is concentrating on figuring out how the whole threading thing works, and how the matrix stuff works. She has no interest at this time in learning how rigging works too. I get that from a pure combat optimization point, rigging is "teh winz" for TMs. But she's no more interested in rigging than I am in potato salad. (I fragging hate potato salad, but damned if I'm at picnic and someone hears that, they just have to try and make me taste their potato salad. Take your cold potatoes and mayonnaise and go away. Potatoes should be served hot - whether they're french fried, boiled, mashed, or baked. Just accept that there are some people who are not going to like potato salad and move on.)
She'd like to make sure she's good at doing "the Matrix stuff". She likes the kid on Alphas who can just see the internet. She finds it amusing to be reality impaired, ducking under AR signs, and trying to bring up menus on meat people. She plays the GTA series of games on the xbox, and finds it quite amusing to have a PC that just doesn't get the differences between driving in the game and in the real world. It makes her giggle.
Plus, with the fluff of being a 17 year old street rat, neither of us think she'd have learned a military skill like gunnery. Pistols? Sure, she's a hot red headed female elf, of course all the boyz in the gang wanted to let her handle their pistols and teach her how to shoot.
There were two streams that appealed to her: Networkers and E-scapists (neither have machine sprites. Me personally, I like the Paladin sprites). She did not care for technoshaman. She choose Networkers simply because as a hot sexy elf with a high Charisma, it'd fit in well with her concept.
The other side of coin here is that in this group is that the guy who is playing the rigger wheelman/drone rigger doesn't want to learn how to do the matrix stuff and wants to concentrate on learning the rigging stuff. He has also never played SR, and doesn't want to get overwhelmed with learning lots of rules at once.
I've done what I can with her concept, and posted it here. She's got 200 BP in attributes, has the 35 BP in Negative Qualities for the most amount of extra points, and has skill groups where I could make them fit. I ignored Decompiling completely. I suppose she could take the bus instead of her self driving car, but it doesn't seem very runner-like to have to be standing on the corner checking bus schedules hoping one will come along in time for you to get to the meet with the Johnson.
I'd like to get her Electronics group up from 3 to 4, but where am I going to get those 10 BPs? If I ditch the cracking group at level 1, are there any must have skills from that group? Should I keep the Stealth group at 1, or just get the individual infiltration skill?
To get Resonance 6, what am I giving up to get those 25 BPs? Do I tank her Body and Agility?
Is there a more fitting 5-BP NQ than Allergy, Mild, Uncommon (wool) that you can recommend?
Is there something I can shave the 4 points off of to get her some Perception?
Is it too cheesy to give her the 10 BP Wanted NQ since during the Emergence campaign there's a huge bounty on TMs, and she's trying to keep it secret that she's a TM from the rest of the group?
And there is almost always something to hack, even if it's just the traffic light control systems, the opponents wireless smart link to eject his gun's clip, or into the opposing team's commlinks so you can prevent them from using their coded subvocal microphones thus screwing their coordination. You just gotta be creative about it.
I am begging you, please, help me make this young woman an effective TM who does not rig. Please.
Thank you,
Eric
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OK. With that in mind, I just want to make sure you understand that "effective TM who doesn't rig" means "useless outside the matrix." There are actually missions in S2 where she will have nothing of any use to do, but so long as you are both OK with that you can make a TM who is hacking-only. To extend your metaphor, you should get fair warning that some picnics are designed so that the only food you can eat is potato salad and if you don't bring potato salad you might be very hungry.
The first thing you need to do is accept that she is going to be absolutely useless in meatspace combat, and not blow a bunch of points going from "don't bother" to "just enough dice to glitch and shoot yourself in the foot," and instead just hide and maybe Spoof people (or thread a Tacnet).
Things to cut:
do NOT cut body, that will get you killed. Instead raise it to 5.
cut Agility to 2 (only affect Infiltration)
cut Reaction to 1 <- rolling 3 dice for Defense checks just raises your odds of critical glitching. She's better off having a high Body score and enough armor to not die when she gets shot; people will be hitting her anyways if they aim at her.
Cut Strength to 1 (doesn't do anything useful for her)
You can cut Intuition to 3. It sets your matrix initiative which is only ehhhh useful for hacking and is more important for rigging, which you don't want to do. It does do a decent amount of useful stuff so it isn't exactly useless.
Cut Logic to 3. You don't care about it except for getting enough CFs.
Cut Willpower to 3. You don't care about it at all, really, I just doubt Willpower 1 is a good plan and you might as well get the extra stun box.
Raise Charisma to 7. Not doing this is a really bad idea.
Raise Resonance to 6. Same.
This frees up 35 bps.
Raise Electronics to 4. Ditch the Cracking and Stealth skill groups (we'll buy some skills individually). Now at +45 bps.
Lose Etiquette and Pistols. Now at +61 bps [Influence, on the other hand, IS worth buying in a clump].
Buy Hacking 6, Infiltration 4, Influence 1, Electronic Warfare 1. Now at 7 bps.
Drop the Contact (I will get back to that one). Now at 10 bps.
Replace your current complex forms with Analyze 6, Exploit 6 with Mute, Spoof 6, Stealth 6, Disarm 6. That leaves 2 bps.
Okay, now at this point things get less clear, because it depends on some stuff.
First, do you allow Empathy software? Right now she is a backup face. With Empathy Software she could easily be the team's primary face, but she needs to free up a few points from somewhere for it. I would probably cut Intuition from 3 to 2; this character really does not strike me as street-smart anyways, and it isn't really helping that much. Then get Empathy Software 6; that leaves 6 bps. Spend them to specialize Hacking and Infiltration in Exploit and Urban, respectively. Spend the last 2 points to buy her some proper armor: Urban Explorer Jumpsuit, FFBA, PPP leg and arm casings, shin guards, and forearm guards. Optionally, go down to 1 intuition, cut some of the more silly gear like that commlink, and put it into a GOOD group contact.
No empathy software: I would see if you can free up 10000Y plus enough for armor by cutting silly gear, and then specialize Hacking and Infiltration in Exploit and Urban. If not just specialize Hacking. Again, optionally cut some Intuition for a good group contact.
A quick note about cybercombat: cybercombat is silly, generally useless, plays AGAINST the strengths of a technomancer, and is also super expensive for technos to be any good at. The way she should cybercombat is in general not to - the idea is to use Assist Operation + Threading to get huge Stealth and Exploit ratings, and go in, Disarm the Analyze program if necessary, and then get whatever she wants. She can also do the unsubtle kick down the door with Exploit, grab what she wants, and leave before the alarm sounds (because of Mute). In the unlikely event that she really needs to cybercombat, the way to win is use Paladin sprites to soak attacks directed at her and then summon a pile of Registered sprites to mob whatever you're fighting. Note that she can Jam on the Fly herself out of the matrix if she gets Blackout/Blackhammered; this is the way to skip cybercombats.
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Oops, forgot about the Wool thing. I too hate the silly allergies and I would recommend Mild Addiction (Betel), which is the equivalent of being addicted to bubblegum. It is cheap and legal, seems kinda appropriate, and you get +1 Perception while chewing it so whee. May give you cancer or something, I dunno.
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UmaroIV, I know you mean well and in fact you give great advice. But this:
With that in mind, I just want to make sure you understand that "effective TM who doesn't rig" means "useless outside the matrix." . There are actually missions in S2 where she will have nothing of any use to do, but so long as you are both OK with that you can make a TM who is hacking-only.
grates. You're not the only one I've seen do it, but you're the target of opportunity. (Sorry 'bout that, but the checkfire seems broken.)
Neither she nor the OP are doing missions. They're roleplaying, for fun.
She's not going to be "useless outside the matrix." She's almost never going to be active in combat -- if there are no matrix links she can declare she's hiding and go get a sandwich or something while everyone argues about IPs. ;) But she's a backup face and may be a physical distraction (cute girl at 2 o'clock {oops, troll at 8 o'clock}). She has even less need to be inside than most riggers - just find her a gap and leave her in the van or even the apartment (hey, old-school), and if the situation goes completely bad she can hire a cab and come post bail -- or play the crap out of it (and bring tons of laughter) crashing driving to the rescue. (My car... my car... look what you did to my CAR! Hey, didja wanna rescue or not?)
I know you know that, but it didn't come off that way.
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And with that shot off and while ducking for cover (grin), a quick reply to PittsburghRPGA.
What I said to UmaroVI does not change the fact it's great advice. I've taken notes, just as I always do when he or squee post.
I'd add one small thing - a gearing issue, mainly. Sometimes the rest of the team is going to be out of touch unless she goes along. One of the things you and she should consider are ways to deal with it.
One favorite in my bag of tricks is based on the microtap bug (UN-198). She'll need two, and she'll need either a third or a retrans box. Bugs one and two are connected by optical link, one on each side of whatever's stopping the signal. If the inside bug is tapped into the internal matrix she's golden as a hacker. If it can't, it connects to the third via directional antenna or laserlink or optical link, whatever works best, to let her connect.
It's not the only solution, and there are situations where it's not the solution at all. But she should probably think about those in advance even if she can't get the solution now. (A nexis will help in wilderness, for example.)
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I understand what you're getting at, Kirk. What I really mean to say is:
You're not going to be good at any meatspace combat skills other than rigging as a Technomancer, and it's not worth being terrible rather than useless at them, as compared to just giving up on meatspace combat and focusing on other things, like being an effective Face. Be aware that there are some Denver missions that do NOT permit you to stay in the van without sitting out the mission and that there are some missions that don't have any matrix elements at all.
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Hey, I want to agree with everything UmaroVI said and post some of my own thoughts:
(also, this is meant dispassionately in an effort to help optimize the character)
In SR3, Rigging and Hacking were two distinct roles. In SR4, Rigging became something that TMs do to play in meatworld and some hackers do with Command 10. The days of a non-TM who specializes in Rigging are basically dead. No one jumps in anymore, so that whole archtype really got cut away.
You mentioned running in Denver, using some of the old missions. This to me says season 2. As someone who has played season 2, I can promise you there are some missions (not many but some) that literally stick you in a hole with no matrix, no devices, and nothing to interact with the entire mission. If you have drones, you can hide behind them while you earn your daily bread. If you do not, then you can basically sit on the side lines and hope you are not killed by a magical crocodile.
I agree on potatoes salad (potatoes should be hot).
Remember there are totally legal street vehicles that have weapon mounts, and vehicles have no recoil. This is one explanation for gunnery. Same if she was in a Go-Gang. There is a group of VR Go-Gangers in Denver (Aurora Angels) who have an excuse for buying gunnery. It’s not a strictly military skill. I also wanted to point that out. Gunnery isn’t required for this character, but I meant it would be better than pistols (which will not help at all). Because she is steadfastly against rigging, she doesn’t need either.
It is lamentable that the cool streams have bad sprites, and if Networkers is unchangeable that we’ll go with that.
200 BP in attributes is unnecessary, I’d drop intuition to 1 and pick up edge 5 personally.
10 free points is totally reasonable in an Emergence campaign. The fact that she could be lynched in the street for being suspected of a TM is pretty harsh.
Traffic Light Control systems: spoof
Eject Gun clip: Spoof
Comlinks to prevent communications: Exploits.
This girl needs some Spoof. Command will also help because even if she doesn’t want to rig, you can do some damage by causing cars to spin out of control, or slam into walls. I think it makes sense to spoof 1 car into hitting another if you think the world has GTA physics. It’s also worth having Command in case she ever wants to do something like that.
I’d also get a Retransmitter Drone, (Unwired) so she can fly it onto wired systems and make them wireless (see kirk’s post).
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Worth remembering is that she can hack commlinks. She can also make a handful of micro-retrans bugs that enter the room before the team and attach to bad guys (especially cybers). Nothing like signal 1 (or less) smartguns and limbs suddenly being part of the Matrix. Spoof a few shutdown or reboot commands before your team goes through the door and bask in the glow of admiration.
There will still be times she's not going to play, but with a careful eye opportunities can be squeezed out of more than you'd think.
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Spoilers for a S2 mission follow.
Tunnel Vision is "you go into a hole and fight paracritters/spirits." They don't have commlinks or cyberware or anything. And the tunnels block wireless.
I wouldn't design missions like that, and I wouldn't be bringing it up if PittsburghRPGA hadn't mentioned that he was running the s2 missions. Otherwise, I'd assume he wouldn't be designing "suck it, hackers" missions like that if he was asking for a non-rigging technomancer.
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Remember retrans drones are not very stealthy. They have -4 to be spotted, but no covert ops autosoft, and a low pilot. You can mod them to be good, especially with chameleon coating, but otherwise you need to worry about giving away surprise with your retrans swam.
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That is also true. Machine Sprites can help with that; they can pilot retrans drones pretty well. You can also mod them to have Chameleon Coating.
However, the other issue with using retrans drones like that is that it is rigging - you use the same set of rules/skills to do that as you would for other rigging, so I'm not sure it makes sense to recommend them as an alternative to being a rigger. :P
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The typical answer is "use the sprite". Which brings up a question (as in I suddenly realize I don't know the rule).
How does a sprite control a drone?
If it's commanding, it needs command and gunnery to shoot?
If it jumps in, does it even need command, or does its pilot and response take over for the built-in pilot?
See, I'm trying to figure out why machine sprites are the "only" good ones for machines. I know there's diagnostics but that's not a self-help. If it's command, courier sprites can have that as an optional CF at rating 3.
And if it's their own pilot-response the Fault's R+2 for response might be a useful drone commander for the hacker TM.
But I realized I don't know for sure so I'll ask.
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There is no explicit rule. I have most commonly seen “replace the drone’s pilot and autosofts with the sprite, but keep drone’s response”.
You can only have 1 non-registered sprite, so I also hesitate to make the answer “use lots of registered sprites just to take part in combats”.
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Lots of things to consider. Couple of questions based off of the newer posts.
Int 1 seems like a good way to be hit crossing the street while walking as it's like to Perception. Plus it's the base stats for a lot of knowledge skills and I try to make those knowledge skills useful whenever possible.
Logic - Ok. Even though all the cool skills are linked to it, its not usually used in the tests that are gonna matter the most..
Willpower = Firewall. Firewall + Stealth + Threadding = Not dectectable for a long time. Isn't that a good thing?
Resonance and Charisma, I agree get them to their high numbers, and work things out BP wise.
Empathy Software - I wasn't go to, but then found that no one made a primary face. I've got the elven teenage technomancer, a human wheelman/rigger, a Troll escaped slave from Azzie blood pit fighting very concentraed in melee (Cha 1 and uncoouth on top of it), a human rat shaman minor pacifist with only stunbolt for combat, and a full on amnesiac former Sioux orc spy/NAN soldier who first wakes up the morning before the run (with no guns or skillsofts for his skillwires) with Human looking. I'm still against emotitoys on principle though. But yeah, I'm gonna suggest squeezing in the Empathy Software so that she's also primary face in addition to primary matrix overwatch.
So far, in spite of access to all the books, Armored Jacket or Long Coat seems to be the groups average B/I armor (not to be confused with the program/cf of the same name). I'll have to start having NPC's nudge them towards the fun layering stuff. Especially useful in this will be the amnesiac's landlord, who is a trigger happy gun nut, former USMC/UCASMC, vintage gun collector and formerly a shadowrunner who went by Cruffler.
Yes, some of those pre-gen mods are not suitable for this group. I don't see anyone but the Troll being happy with Wetwork Pure and Simple, for example (and the Rat Shaman actively against the run entirely). I'm hoping that Tunnel Vision will give the TM the willies and make her (and or the wheelman) buy a retransmitter drone (or two). Maybe even provide the impetuous for the wheelman to start giving her driving lessons so she can buy off the incompetent with Karma and start picking up the drone stuff. Some of the runs, I can simply add more matrix stuff for them to do. I'm also not limited to 4 hour con slots either, so adding in stuff is no problemo if it makes a run go two nights.
I will be sure to point out the "trick" of micro-retrans drones and their combat uses to both the TM and Wheelman. It's not a subtle nudge, but they're new to the game, so there we go. And when they meet the Aurora Angels, they'll start the not so subtle hints that she should start learning how to do the rigging stuff.
Thanks,
Eric
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About the 'bunch of registered sprites', I agree, but I want to point out a 'trick'.
Buy a smartgun, modify it with pilot so it's a defacto drone, then let your sprite run it.
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Firewall is for defense, but your real defense as a technomancer is
(a) Only other technos can hack your bionode. Technos are VERY rare and a 6 versus 3 firewall won't stop them anyways.
(b) Have some registered sprites chilling in your bionode to prevent (a).
Firewall does not help you remain unnoticed as you hack other people. You use Hacking+Stealth for that when you are in a node, and just Stealth as a threshold when hacking in. Firewall is used by the node to detect you hacking in.
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Firewall doesn’t help your stealth. Is that a house rule?
Just thread Empathy Software, it’s not like she can’t soak the fade.
If you want her to ever be good at rigging, start with Command 6. It is not fair to the player to have her pay much more in game with karma for a build flaw.
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aha, I think I found it. re sprite command when jumping in, treat sprite as rigger. At that point this rule comes into play:
A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative—
the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are
made using the rigger’s skills and the drone’s attributes (substituting
Response for Agility and Reaction and Sensor for Intuition).
Hot sim benefits the rigger as much as the hacker. All actions by
a rigger who has jumped into a drone (or other device) are considered
Matrix actions, and receive the benefit of the +2 bonus due to hot sim
VR use.
So it's the sprite's pilot, matrix initiative, and IPs, and the drone's response.
At that point if I were our hacker TM I'd be tempted to use a Sleuth. R for pilot just like all the sprites, Rx3 for initiative, 3 IPs, and for when somebody tries to spoof (if you can spoof a sprite due to its connection with the TM) it's got a firewall of R+2.
It's still not the large dice pool the rigger TM can get but it begins to be viable.
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Ok, then the whole a TM is a biological node thing doesn't apply to stealth tests. I'll have to go over those rules in UW again then. I'll have another draft of the Teenage Elven Techno Mancer up later (as I hum that to the TMNT theme song).
Thanks,
Eric
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If rigging is going to be a "pick this up eventually" thing, it would probably make more sense to start with Command 6, but no rigging skills, and buy the skills later (or Biowire them).
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So sprites don’t want to jump in. That makes their skills Response/Sensors + A skill they can’t get: infiltrate, pilot ground vehicles, gunnery, perception, etc. Remember you use the drone’s response which is going to be at most 8, and unlikely to be > 5.
Where does it say you treat sprites as riggers when jumping in, or that sprites can jump in at all? I honestly am not sure how sprites rig so please direct me to any rules.
The TM bionode unhackability doesn’t apply to stealth tests normally. It just means that mundane hackers/AI/anyone not using emergence can’t locate your bionode to log on/hack in. Firewall plays no part in your stealth check RAW. Are you using housefules?
Also, I agree with UmaroVI, get Command 6 now, and biowires the skills later.
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Version 2
Street Name: w3Bz
Elf female Age 17
Height 6'2" Weight 117
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Unspent Nuyen: 70
==BP Summary==
Metatype Elf 30
Attributes 140
Special 85
Pos.Qual. 10
Neg. Qual. -35
Nuyen 5
Skill Groups 60
Active Skills 62
Complex Forms 43
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 2 (1)
REA: 2 (1)
STR: 1
CHA: 7
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
RES: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 5 (4)
IP: 1
Matrix Initiative: 7
Matrix IP: 3
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Active Skills ==
Compiling : 4
Computer : 3 (Elec. Group)
Con : 2 (Influence Group)
Data Search : 3 (Elec. Group)
Disguise : 1 (Stealth Group)
Electronic Warfare : 1
Etiquette : 2 (Influence Group)
Hacking : 5
Hardware : 3 (Elec. Group)
Infiltration : 1 (Stealth Group)
Leadership : 2 (Influence Group)
Negotiation : 2 (Influence Group)
Palming : 1 (Stealth Group)
Pistols : 1
Registering : 4 [Crack Sprite]
Shadowing : 1 (Stealth Group)
Software : 3 (Elec. Group)
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Denver : 2
Data Havens : 2 [N. America]
English : N
French : 2
Gaming : 2 [Grand Larceny]
Gangs : 2
Security Design : 2 [Matrix]
Sioux : 2
Underworld : 2 [Matrix Crime]
== Qualities ==
Incompetent (Pilot Ground Craft)
Media Junkie (Moderate)
Paragon (The Black Hat)
Reality Impaired
SINner (Standard) (Penelope Jennifer Cohen)
Technomancer
Wanted (if it becomes known she's a technomancer)
== Complex Forms ==
Analyze Rating: 6
Command Rating: 6
Disarm Rating: 6
Empathy Software Rating: 6
Exploit Rating: 6 (Mute)
Spoof Rating: 6
Stealth Rating: 6
== Armor ==
Form-Fitting Shirt 3/0
Leather Jacket 2/2
Lined Coat 6/4
== Weapons ==
Browning Ultra-Power
+Laser Sight
DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
DV: 1S AP: - RC: 0
Yamaha Pulsar
DV: 6S(e) AP: -half RC: 0
== Commlink ==
CMT Clip (1, 2, 1, 3)
+Redcap Nix
+Suite: Basic User [Analyze 2, Browse 2, Command 1, Edit 2]
Living Persona (3 (4), 4, 3, 3)
+Living Persona
+Biofeedback Filter
== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Heavy Pistols) x30
Ammo: Taser Dart (Tasers) x40
AR Gloves
AR Wristboard
Biomonitor
Butt Pack
Fake SIN (Jacksy Lynn) Rating 4
+Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
Glasses Rating 3
+Image Link
+Flare Compensation
+Thermographic
Mapsoft (Denver Metropolitan) Rating 6
Medkit Rating 6
Metal Restraints
Nanopaste Trodes
Silver Body Glitter
Spectrum Permanent Polish x2
Subvocal Microphone
Tag Eraser
VR Game (Grand Larceny MMO)
== Vehicles ==
Honda Spirit (Subcompact)
+Pilot Program Rating 3
+Vehicle Sensor
== Background ==
Teen aged girl making her way in the big bad world. Using gear to pretend to be a decker (even from the group for now).
Lives in a loft above her mother's garage. Still in high school, 7:30am to 3:30pm Monday - Fridays, PCC sector.
Fake ID Jacksy Lynn is listed as 21. ;)
== Concept ==
Technomancer Hacker/secondary face.
== Notes ==
Wanted: There is currently a 40,000 nuyen bounty on live Technomancers at several corporations.
Paragon - The Black Hat - +1 die for Cracking Sprites (since as a Networker, she doesn't have fault sprites)
Day Job (High School) 0 BP, 20 hours per week, no pay, counts as having instructor for all academic skills until graduation. Mom gets notified if you "cut school" which might result in getting grounded.
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Get hacking 6, drop pistols 1.
Get full form fitting body armor, supplement with Personal Protection Piecemeal (PPP) and Vasion Island Steampunk.
Mod the Pistol for Custom Look so it is at least scary. Right now the pulsar is just better in all ways. Plus if you drop the pistol, you don’t need a fake license.
Otherwise looks fine.
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So sprites don’t want to jump in. That makes their skills Response/Sensors + A skill they can’t get: infiltrate, pilot ground vehicles, gunnery, perception, etc. Remember you use the drone’s response which is going to be at most 8, and unlikely to be > 5.
Where does it say you treat sprites as riggers when jumping in, or that sprites can jump in at all? I honestly am not sure how sprites rig so please direct me to any rules.
The TM bionode unhackability doesn’t apply to stealth tests normally. It just means that mundane hackers/AI/anyone not using emergence can’t locate your bionode to log on/hack in. Firewall plays no part in your stealth check RAW. Are you using housefules?
Also, I agree with UmaroVI, get Command 6 now, and biowires the skills later.
Thank you for making me dig. (No, that is not sarcasm). Both SR4A and UN are unclear on whether a sprite can jump into a drone and I'd almost given up. Then I had an inspiration while reviewing the character I'm building. Runner's Companion, Advanced Lifestyles, Negative Qualities, Sprite Magnet. (p164):
Your home attracts sprites that seem to enjoy inhabiting your
CHN, drones, and wireless systems. Roll a die. On a hit, a sprite
has inhabited a device or node in your home (such as your CHN
or a drone) and refuses to allow you access for a period to be determined
by the gamemaster.
The inference is that sprites can jump into (inhabit) devices, of which drones are a subclass.
A counterargument that is just as inferential comes in unwired, AIs, Positive Qualities. One of those qualities is Drone Pilot (p 169) which says:
An AI with this quality likely evolved from a drone Pilot
program and retained its abilities. The AI may “jump into” drones
and control them like a rigger, using their rating in place of Pilot.
This inference here is that other AI's, those without that quality, cannot jump into drones.
Bottom line, I believe we have a rules situation where unless and until an Official Voice makes a decision the GM must decide which truly applies for their table. (I really suggest Bull be asked for a ruling for missions, regardless.)
I'm going to continue in a while on what the sprite should use for its dice pool. I'm conflicted, and want to double-check some rules first.
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fixing error.
A counterargument that is just as inferential ALSO comes in unwired Runner's Companion, AIs, Positive Qualities.
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Part two.
RAW, only two of the three methods of controlling a drone are available to a sprite. Rules as inferred (see previous) the sprite can use its own version of jumping in as well.
1) Issue commands. The sprite gives instructions then lets the drone's pilot do its job. Generally not useful other than the simple power of delegation -- if it's giving orders there, you're free to be giving orders here. And sprites are (probably) better at contingencies.
2) Remote Control. Since your sprites aren't free and therefore can't thread, this sucks. An attack is Command + Gunnery. A sprite doesn't have gunnery, so it's command + 0 -- unless it's a machine sprite that was compiled with a Gunnery autosoft
3) If and only if the sprite can do its version of jumping in does the idea become worthwhile. A sprite isn't metahuman so it wouldn't use metahuman skills when in direct control. Instead, it would be in control. There is no clear rules reason for this. I'm inferring from existing rules and similar applications (riggers).
In this case, my interpretation is that the sprite provides the 'software' and the drone the 'hardware'. Thus the sprite provides Pilot and Response while the drone provides Body, Armor, and Sensors. The question in my mind is what about cases where the drone's regular pilot can bring the 'second half' of a 'software' duo -- Targeting, Defense, Covert Ops, Maneuver, and Clearsight. Is it shut down, or just pushed into the back seat?
Bottom line, it's GM call unless or until the Powers That Be make an official declaration. There are no clear rules, but plenty that can persuade either way.
I'm a lenient sorta GM, so I'd let the sprite use them. Just as an FYI.
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It is very clearly the drone's response, see the bit you quoted about the drone's attributes. Also, the "gunnery autosoft" is called targeting, and it is only useable while acting autonomously, that is why i think a sprite replaces the drone's base pilot, and uses the autonomous rules.
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But what about (and sorry, thought I'd already included):
In game terms, sprites are very similar to agents (p. 234). Each sprite has a rating that
is equivalent to the Pilot rating of an agent and determines its other Matrix attributes. A
sprite’s Matrix attributes are independent of the attributes of any node in which it is running;
it runs on other, inexplicable resources.
(SR4A - 240)
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The sprites attributes don't conform to the drones, but you use the drone response, the same as if you were using a comlink to jump in. You use the drone's response, not your comlinks. If you jump in as a TM, you use the drone's response not your bionode. Basically you always use drone response. do you need me to cite that?
A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative—
the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are
made using the rigger’s skills and the drone’s attributes (substituting
Response for Agility and Reaction and Sensor for Intuition).
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Basically you always use drone response. do you need me to cite that?
No. No, I found it - realized what you meant by the bit I quoted about drone attributes, and found it.
I'm sticking by the opinion that the sprite using the system's autosofts isn't RAW. I agree it's how it should be, and with that minor change just mentioned I'm in much closer agreement, but there's reason to object just as there is reason to accept. (see, as noted, the intrusive AI for example.)
The possible point of disagreement is an assumption on my part, that you're saying only the machine spirit can use the drone's autosofts because it gets to use autosofts. If - and please note the if - that's true, my objection is because the autosoft has to be part of the spirit's compilation.
Disregard if I'm misunderstanding your argument, of course.
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First off, I said that I have no idea how Machine Sprites are supposed to Rig RAW as it is very unclear.
Second: Machine Sprites cannot use mundane autosofts, only the ones they have as complex forms. I think we actually agree on that.
My argument was that sprites should be replacing the pliot of the drone with their own pilot rating and the drone's autosofts with their own, then using "autonomous command" because it has the best dice pool.
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On the first, my apologies. I was remembering your comments about missions being played by RAW, and that machine sprites were so much better. OTOH, you spoke early in the thread of how sprites have muddled rules (my paraphrase) and have made comments elsewhere about how parts of matrix, especially TM rules, are less than clear. excuse me, please, for misconstruing your position. I can only say I was tired and had spent far too many hours trying to piece out a pattern to the Matrix.
re autosofts, yay, I did remember that correctly. The comment was a just in case.
And I agree with your argument. Which means we can build from solid foundation.
The reason I went in this whole direction was because I made an assumption of what you meant. This time I'll ask you to explain.
What did you mean by the "bad sprites" comment:
It is lamentable that the cool streams have bad sprites, and if Networkers is unchangeable that we’ll go with that.
??
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What I meant was that the streams which have interesting fluff (Like Networkers) have poor sprite selection. Some sprites are better than other sprites because of various factors. A brief list of which sprites are good (in alphabetical order, not in goodness):
Good
Code,
Crack
Machine,
Sleuth
ONE OF: Fault, Tank, Paladin (you need a fight sprite but that's it)
Bad
Courier
Data
Tutor
The goal is to get as many good sprites as you can. I did not realize it was unclear.
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Ah.
I massively disagree about Tutor being bad. CF any technical, vehicle, or knowledge skillsoft at time of build. Can then instruct (virtual instructor program). Can use Proficiency to act as a user skillsoft, letting the user test against the skill at half the sprite's rating. Due to tutor nature only complex action or extended tests apply -- if it needs to be free or simple you're out of luck. Still, look at the list.
Technical: Armorer, Artisan, Chemistry, Cybercombat, CyberTechnology, Data Search, Demolitions, Electronic Warfare, First Aid, Forgery, Hacking, Hardware, Locksmith, Medicine, Mechanic (Aeronautical, Automotive, Industrial, Nautical), Software.
Vehicle: Gunnery, Pilot (any).
Note that because you can "lend" your sprites you can use this to instruct team-members, or give another team member a needed skill to complete the mission. Or (per earlier discussion) add the optional Command, give it the CF Gunnery, and let it run Remote Command your drone in a firefight.
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Tutor sprites aren't terrible like courier and data sprites; it's more that the stuff they are good at, Machine and Code sprites are generally better at the same type stuff. Now, if I could get, say, Machine, Code, Sleuth, Paladin first, then I'd probably take Tutor, sure. Or if I had a free echo to Sprite Link one.
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UmaroVI, there are things the tutor can do neither Machine nor Code can do. Lockpick? Forgery? Any knowsoft? And while my team undoubtedly has someone who can do demolitions, that team member may not be where I am. Its flexibility means it has to be as an unregistered sprite, but I can live with it.
With Tutor I can repair, build, and modify anything given tools and supplies. I can spin up a tutor to drive (with command) ANYTHING, and do it better than I can, while I concentrate on other things. I'm still parsing how it will work with medkits/autodocs. If I can use the its first aid or medicine rating WITH the kit/doc then compiling and registering one becomes a seriously good idea. Even without, giving me - or another player - a first aid/medicine skillsoft can be extremely useful.
There are never enough build points or karma for all the skills I want/need.
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Lockpick – I have never seen a key lock in SRM. The only locks I have seen are maglocks, which Lockpick does not work on. If I did see one, I would use an autopicker + an agile street sam, or just use a gun/explosive/spirit. Locked doors are a solved problem.
Forgery – Never had to use this in SRM, perhaps if I played a home campaign I would. I usually just hack the central system and add a file/account directly rather than messing around with papers. Just say you forgot them but you are in the system. Ta-da.
Knowsofts – These can be useful. I see decreased usefulness because there is a logic mystic adept at my table who throws 13+dice defaulting on any logic skill. I could use Tutor sprite to give him more dice, but that is why this is the best of the worst (a semi-useful ability). Just because no other sprite can duplicate it, doesn’t mean it is good.
Driving – Overthreaded command gives me 15 dice to drive anything. To match that a sprite would need to be rating 8. Machine sprites can also drive anything though, and so this is not unique.
First Aid – If you can command a medkit (which I have seen done), overthreading your command is better than a sprite. Again, a highly specialized use, as opposed to Machine or Code which is +2 dice to everything you do.
I have found biowires fixes all the skills I want/need. I could pick up perception, some driving skills, and negotiate with biowires, but honestly I am at the dice pool cap anyway so I don’t particularly care that much.
It’s not that Tutor is as bad as Courier and Data, but it is not as good as say Machine and Code which are the best of the best.
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cut Agility to 2 (only affect Infiltration)
Lose Etiquette and Pistols
Get hacking 6, drop pistols 1.
We already established that this character is not going to be contributing to meat combat by drone rigging. Why are we therefore going to nerf her ability to actually shoot things with a gun? Just curious about the logic here. I mean I get that the character is not going to be *good* at combat either way, but we could at least give her *something* to do.
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At 3 Agility and 1 Pistols, she would roll at most 10 dice for shooting people with a smartlinked pistol while in a Rating 4 tacnet. Removing Agility and Pistols drops that to 7 dice under the same conditions. Without the tacnet, it is 6 and 3. With only one IP, and a poor dice pool (10 is not very good, and 6 is unlikely to hit), her contribution will mostly be giving people a -1 penalty to their Reaction test. OTOH if she got an automatic and wide bursted, she could be giving -3 or -5 to hit, and have a reasonable chance of connecting. An Ares Alpha with Gas Vents 3 is 5RC to start (you can get higher using Personalized Grip, a shockpad, or a Gyrostabalizer).
Basically agility 3 and Pistols 1, and 1 IP is too low to be effective as a gunwoman, so she might as well focus on being a better TM.
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At 3 Agility and 1 Pistols, she would roll at most 10 dice for shooting people with a smartlinked pistol while in a Rating 4 tacnet. Removing Agility and Pistols drops that to 7 dice under the same conditions. Without the tacnet, it is 6 and 3. With only one IP, and a poor dice pool (10 is not very good, and 6 is unlikely to hit), her contribution will mostly be giving people a -1 penalty to their Reaction test. OTOH if she got an automatic and wide bursted, she could be giving -3 or -5 to hit, and have a reasonable chance of connecting. An Ares Alpha with Gas Vents 3 is 5RC to start (you can get higher using Personalized Grip, a shockpad, or a Gyrostabalizer).
Basically agility 3 and Pistols 1, and 1 IP is too low to be effective as a gunwoman, so she might as well focus on being a better TM.
Two Words:
Suppression Fire
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... Is another thing pistols can't do?
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... Is another thing pistols can't do?
WAR! does have rules for suppressive fire with non-FA weapons. They aren't good for it, but it is possible. You will never actually remove someone from the fight with suppressive fire unless you're using SnS or nasty capsule rounds, but that's a bit of a tangent.