Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: PMC Scholar on <09-05-11/0009:13>
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Instead of cluttering up my player's thread about his infiltration expert with more of my designs I decided to start a new thread for the different character's I'm working on to offer to my players. This one is designed to be a world class sniper, one of the best in his field. Someone who is now more a weapon system than a person anymore. As far as starting characters go, I think I succeeded. (This guy is scary as far as his ability to shoot things goes regardless of power level.) I'd appreciate it if there are any mistakes that they are pointed out as I'm pretty new to this edition of the game. I'd also appreciate suggestions in the knowledge skills department for a military trained sniper with a penchant for the outdoors. Finally can you stack a max skill rating with a specialty and a reflex recorder as this sniper does?
Besides being good at long range shooting this character is designed to be really good at observation, which is something sniper's do far more than shooting anyway. The sniper's weakness is CQB combat. He just doesn't have enough initiative passes or toughness to mix it up at close range. That shouldn't matter too much as his typical engagement range is 1,000 meters plus.
Race: Human 0bp
Qualities: Restricted Gear (5bp; For muscle Toner), Aptitude (Longarms; 10bp), Erased (5bp), Uncouth(+20bp)
Attributes: 200bp
B:3 A:5(9) R:3 S:3 C:2 I:5 L:3 W:4 E:2 Essence: 4.05
Active Skills: 164 bp
Longarms: 7(Sniper Rifles +2)
Pistols: 2
Automatics: 2
Demolitions: 1
Infiltration: 4 (Urban +2)
Outdoors Skill Group: 3
Blades: 2
First Aid: 1 (Battle Wounds +2)
Armorer:2
Running: 1
Climbing: 2
Etiquette: 1 (Military +2)
Perception: 4 (Visual +2)
Close Combat: 1
Knowledge Skills: 24 free
Infantry Tactics: 4
UCAS Military: 4
Security Procedures: 4
Gardening: 3
Geology: 2
Terrorist Organizations: 3
Spanish: 3
Russian: 1
Contacts: 13bp
Arms Dealer (Connection 4 Loyalty 1)
Ex-Squad Mate (Connection 2 Loyalty 6)
Gear and Life Style: 23bp
Armory kit, climbing gear, survival kit, respirator (rating 6), 100 meters or rope, 200 meters of stealth rope, Fake SIN (Rating 6), 2 Fake Licenses (Rating 3; For Ares Predater IV and Ruger 100), backpack, tent, sleeping bag, armor jacket, chameleon suit (w/ rating 6 thermal dampening, rating 2 fire protection and rating 2 chemical protection), medkit (rating 6), biomonitor, 2 doses of Jazz and 1 month low lifestyle
Augmentations:
Cybereyes (Alphawear w/ rating 3 vision enhancement, imagelink, lowlight, smartlink, thermographic, vision magnification and flare compensation), Sleep Regulator, Datajack, Muscle Toner (Rating 4), Cyber-ears (Alphawear rating 4 w/ dampner, audio enhancement rating 3, select sound filter rating 2 and spatial recognizer), Reflex Recorder (Longarms)
Matrix Gear:
Renraku Sensai w/ Renraku Ichi OS (Programs: Analyze 2, Browse 2, command 1, edit 2, firewall 5, ECCM 3)
Weapons:
Survival Knife, Ares Predator IV (w/ concealment holster, 100 normal rounds and 4 extra clips), Ruger 100 (w/ external smartlink, 100 normal rounds and 8 extra clips), Franchi Spas 22 (w/ lvl 3 gas vent system, 60 flechette rounds and 40 APDS rounds), Ares Desert Strike (w/ Chameleon Coating, Electronic Firing Mechanism, Integral Silencer, external smartgun system, bipod, 50 subsonic rounds, 60 APDS rounds, 100 Normal rounds and 8 extra clips), 4 thermal smoke grenades, 2 flash bang grenades.
For shooting he gets an astounding 21 dice with the Ares Desert Strike :o I also wouldn't want to mess with this cat when he has a shotgun in hand.....
Thoughts?
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If this were a PC, I would say he is too hyperfocused on a niche role, and would be bored most of the time. As an NPC, this isn't a problem, but... what do you do with him? Sniping is one of those unfortunate tactics that nearly always seems like the GM is killing your character by GM fiat.
There really isn't much chance of an unsuspecting character spotting a sniper in a well-concealed rooftop position, and a sniper round from surprise will finish off just about anybody. So, great. A character is dead. What do you do now?
Honestly, this is the equivalent of a Red Samurai squad going after the characters. This is a world-class assassin. The characters would have to screw up pretty badly, most of the time, to have someone like this after them.
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If you are offering him to a PC, then RAW that APDS ammo is completely illegal. Availability 16. Obviously, if you are the GM, you can change that if you wish.
I'd have thought a different infiltration speciality more suitable. I cannot speak with complete authority, but my own limiited experience and reading suggests he'd be far more likely to be trained to move silently in a wilderness environment of some description.
Generally, Snipers are held to be poor PC concepts. This is because in most Runs, there are limited and boring positions available to the guy who sits outside on overwatch. Since this guy also has the shotgun for mixing it up close and personal, and plenty of sneak skills (as is right), he will have plenty to do but do emphasise the sneak and surveillance roles of a sniper as much as "I hang back and shoot things).
I personally would lower pistols to 1, automatics to 3, and give him a SMG as a backup. I think it makes more sense for a military trained man to have a higher automatics score and a beefier sidearm.
Most crucially - should someone get the drop on you guy, he's dead. Almost certainly. With Reaction 3, he's probably not going first and he's almost certainly not dodging. He has no Dodge or Gymnastics skill to fall back on for one turn of 'pray for survival then run like hell'. His body score is not particularly high and his armour not particularly good. He doesn't even have a stim patch to help him through the crippling wound penalties he's got and try to survive if the first blow doesn't get him. His low edge won't help much either.
So, all in all - you have created a very specialised glass cannon. In fact, even by SR standards, for a combat focused character, he doesn't even rate glass. He's made of cobwebs. Will the player have fun? I don't know, he's got plenty to do, the idea is right... but he's a massive liability in social situations (again, whether the player will have fun I don't know) and he's incredibly fragile and I think the player might not enjoy that so much.
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The basic problem this guy has is "what do you do when the mission doesn't call for a sniper?" For example, infiltrating a compound quietly, and the dangerous stuff is on the inside. Rescuing a hostage who's inside a building. Going into the sewers looking for something. Et cetera. This guy is simply too hyperfocused on a niche role to be a fun PC.
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Thanks for the feedback gentlemen. I always figured this character was a specialist; the one you call when you need to take a shot at 1,500 meters from a helicopter with a three second window in high winds (or something equally ridiculous.) Honestly this guy works best as a Chimera Assassin or something similar as mentioned by Glyph. I figure he'd also do well in one shots or other short campaigns where the mission really calls for someone with his talents.
Big Peat, thanks for the low down on character survival; I figured this guy wouldn't do well close up and you're telling me its worse then I thought ;). I'll have to look into the stimm patches and the like. My problem is I'm still learning all the rules myself so I'm not entirely sure how combat and the like work in practice yet with the new edition. I'm thinking I'll have to go back and add more dodge and other defensive abilities (Like higher combat sense for my adept) to the other characters I'm putting together for my players. Also thanks for pointing out the APDS availability. I missed that somehow.
On the sniper concept it can be hard to make it relevant in just about any system. Their job is pretty much to sit in one place for hours or days at a time, watch what happens and report it to higher authorities. Occasionally they might take a shot but that's secondary. Not something most PC's have the stomach for. In a game where everyone plays a SWAT operator it was recommended to me that the snipers be NPC's because the only rolls they would make would be the initial one to get in position and hidden, a number of observation tests and maybe one guns roll to kick the assault off.
The good news is I seem to have gotten the rules mostly right and really that's the main thing I was testing with this character; my ability to have a concept, in this case world class sniper, then execute the concept.
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On snipers in general:
It works better if you think of sniper as "a thing you can do" rather than "a type of character you can be." If you are actually sniping - shooting at an unaware target - then you don't actually need to be very skilled to hit them in Shadowrun. Thus, you can make a generalist-type fire support type character who has the skills to snipe (but doesn't hyperspecialize in it), and can do that when the situation calls for it. Take a look at the Ghost (in my sig) for an example of such a character.
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A sniper is also a scout though, remember. Trained to infiltrate, sneak, observe and so on. They'd have also undergone basic infantry training. You still have a person who can operate as fire support, point man, surveillance and so on. This character can still do those things. It is useful outside of just sitting in a building and waiting. Of course, that mightn't fit the character's thinking....
But basically, when you build a sniper, you build a recce soldier with an unholy score in longarms. And the recce soldier always has something to do.
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It is funny, because we were hunting an artifact in Lagos with a character almost exactly like this. Even in a feral city in Africa a sniper ended up being bored to tears. Then he would decide that somehow a shotgun scene was a good idea and blow any chance of being subtle at all. This would only be worse in a place like Seattle
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Having a designated marksmen is quite useful on a team. When you can take that 500+ meter shot, it's really handy to have someone who can. Thankfully, it isn't that hard to have one on a shadowrun team. Anyone with a good infiltration skill and a decent roll with a weapon with good range is a designated marksman. It can be the street samurai with a LMG, a rigger with a drone, or the face with a gauss cannon.
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Rigger with a drone is good in that kind of role. Especially if using a drone that's easy to blend into the environment and has good elevation. I'm thinking of some of the Drones from This Old Drone are perfect for the role...
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I'll second what most people have said about the sniper role.
I would like to point out how to maximize your perception abilities. If you plan on being someone who can spot anything... Plan on picking up an attention co-processor from Augmentation as well as limbic nanities from the same book. I also totally agree with UmaroVI in terms of trying to maximize your logic based skill dice pools.
Also, think about the diminishing returns on a huge long arms dice pool. If you are planning a 500+ meter shot then odds are that the baddies are not getting a defense roll. So every hit becomes a net hit, meaning you don't need to do a called shot to up the damage and your AP value is high enough that you don't have to worry about bypassing armor. In addition, the odds are good that you are planning on a 500+ meter shot and this is not some spur of the moment shot, so you'll have time to zero in negating distance modifers and probably get a take aim free action. So while 21 dice is cool, you could probably get pretty close to the same effect with a couple less dice, which will free up some BP by dropping your skill rating and the aptitude quality.
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Having someone with the ability to use a sniper rifle effectively on your team is always nice. Overwatch is IMPORTANT, and having a drone do it is just ineffective. I don't care how good you are, if you are running a dozen drones and one is on overwatch you aren't going to get the same effect as having someone constantly watching the perimeter and not switching between vid-feeds from drones A through R.
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I have rarely had a team large enough to put one person on persistent overwatch. Plus, even when I have had a team with the man to waste, the role of overwatch is pretty dull for the person stuck doing it unless everything falls down. Once it falls down there is more fun to be had elsewhere too. It is, in theory, a great backup option to have but I just dont think it is a fun role to play. Use the drone. Get it fuzzy logic and lots of autosofts and trust it to do the job and make a more involved and fun characters
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A starting character does not have enough BP to be a military sniper. It simply can't be done unless your guy graduated at the bottom of the class being dragged kicking and screaming by every member of the cadre and the cooks.
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Anyway, here is how I'd change this character to be better
Drop Willpower by 1, Drop Logic by 1, up Body to 5.
Drop Intitution by 1, Drop Charisma by 1, up Reaction to 5.
Your character is now a reasonable amount more resilient to direct fire. He is slightly less brave, which can be amended by taking the Guts quality at some point. He is also a bit quicker to react in combat. Yes, he does lose a fair bit outside combat, but lets go with the core functions first (note: Cyberware or Bioware might have been able to affect his, but you seem to be shying away from it).
Drop Apptiude Longarms and Longarms 7. It may be characterful, but he's still an amazing world class sniper without it... and he also has 18 build points to spend elsewhere. Where? Dunno offhand, but thats a damn fine trade for losing a die.
Possible places to spend those points.
- Raising Edge
- Dodge 4 with speciality
- Reaction enhancers plus Perception increasing 'ware
- Put the running and climbing together, buy Athletics 3
My preferred suggestion is Athletics 3, then squeezing some points from somewhere (drop Erased, drop some specialities, maybe drop some contact ratings) for some more ware - a Synthacardium is an obvious choice, as are Reaction Enhancers, as are the various Perception boosters.
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The thing as many others said before, being a sniper in SR is maybe not what i would prefer, but knowing it can be very nice. Longarms will grant you the worlds coolest weapon beside the sniper rifles and that is the shootgun. So go for a SWAT member or something instead of sniper.
Like the big pet said:
Drop logic, but not willpower. Having done sniper training i say willpower will be your best friend, and it truly helps ingame to. Not many fighter soldiers have low willpower. You will need to push forward, even when life sucks, thus willpower!
I would drop Agility by one to raise body i think.
Droc charisma to up Reaction or body.
Drop pistols since you have the automatics.
Drop longarms from 7-5 and loose the spec, you will be truly cool enough anyway.
Get athletics.
You have close combat, drop blades. Or vice versa
And last, you need high perception, bump it.
By now you should have a lot more BP to spend on other stuff. get more starting cash to get cool ware, Reaction boosters, Nano hive with Limbic, As a USAC military in 2070 you should be pretty pumped on either gear or drugs :)
Hope you get were you want to!
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Well I've looked at all the advice thrown out there and I've reworked the sniper into a more PC friendly concept. He's still an antisocial nutcase, but with wired reflexes and so forth perhaps he is more of an all around murder machine albeit one that prefers to work from about mile away 8).
Race: Human 0bp
Qualities: Restricted Gear (5bp; For muscle Toner), Uncouth(+20bp)
Attributes: 200bp
B:3 A:5(9) R:4(6) S:3 C:2 I:5 L:2 W:4 E:2 Essence: 0.8
Active Skills: 162 bp
Athletics Skill Group: 2
Longarms (Sniper Rifles): 6(+2)
Dodge: 3
Automatics: 2
Demolitions: 1
Infiltration: 4 (Urban +2)
Outdoors Skill Group: 3
Blades: 2
First Aid: 1
Armorer:2
Etiquette: 1 (Military +2)
Perception: 4 (Visual +2)
Knowledge Skills: 21 free
Infantry Tactics: 4
UCAS Military: 4
Security Procedures: 4
Gardening: 3
Geology: 2
Spanish: 3
Russian: 1
Contacts: 11bp
Arms Dealer (Connection 2 Loyalty 1)
Ex-Squad Mate (Connection 2 Loyalty 6)
Gear and Life Style: 42bp
Armory kit, climbing gear, survival kit, respirator (rating 6), 100 meters or rope, 200 meters of stealth rope, Fake SIN (Rating 6), 2 Fake Licenses (Rating 3; For ingram Smartgun X and Ruger 100), backpack, tent, sleeping bag, armor jacket, chameleon suit (w/ rating 6 thermal dampening, rating 2 fire protection and rating 2 chemical protection), medkit (rating 6), biomonitor, 2 Stimm Packs (Rating 6) and 1 month low lifestyle
Augmentations:
Cybereyes (Alphawear w/ rating 3 vision enhancement, imagelink, lowlight, smartlink, thermographic, vision magnification and flare compensation), Sleep Regulator, Datajack, Muscle Toner (Rating 4), Cyber-ears (Alphawear rating 4 w/ dampner, audio enhancement rating 3, select sound filter rating 2 and spatial recognizer), Reflex Recorder (Longarms), Enhanced Articulation, Wired Reflexes (Rating 2), Synthacardium (Rating 2)
Matrix Gear:
Renraku Sensai w/ Renraku Ichi OS (Programs: Analyze 2, Browse 2, command 1, edit 2, firewall 5, ECCM 3)
Weapons:
Survival Knife, Ingram Smartgun X (w/ concealment holster, 300 normal rounds and 4 extra clips), Ruger 100 (w/ external smartlink, 100 normal rounds and 8 extra clips), Franchi Spas 22 (w/ lvl 3 gas vent system, 60 flechette rounds and 20 normal rounds), Ares Desert Strike (w/ Chameleon Coating, Electronic Firing Mechanism, Integral Silencer, external smartgun system, bipod, 50 subsonic rounds 80 EX-Explosive Rounds, 100 Normal rounds and 8 extra clips), 4 thermal smoke grenades, 2 flash bang grenades.
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Are you really sure you want cybereyes and ears? You could get the same effect from a pair of glasses/lenses and some ear buds for a little over 1.000 nuyen and that is essence free (sorry if that has already been discussed).
Also Fake License Rating 6 is over the allowed 12R.
Can you pehaps lower some of your skills from 2 to 1 and the raise something to 4? That is more karma eficient. Demolitions 1 is not much so maybe just drop it instead of having the potential to blow of one of your hands (isn't Demolitions linked with Logic?).
Oh and I love your Gardening skills.
Rasmus
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I agree.
Contacts Rating 3 (150¥) + Image Link (25¥) + Smartlink (500¥) + Vision Enhancement 3 (300¥) + Skinlink (50) = 1,025¥
Glasses Rating (100¥) + Thermographic (100¥) + Low-light (100¥) + Flare Compensation (50¥) + Vision Magnification (100¥) + Skinlink (50¥) = 500¥
Earbuds Rating 2 (20¥) + Audio Enhancement 3 (300¥) + Spatial Recognizer (100¥) + Skinlink (50¥) = 470¥
Headphones 1 (50¥) + Select Sound Filter (600¥) + Skinlink (50¥) = 700¥
Only thing you'd need to get cyber is the Dampner and that is much cheaper to get (.1 Essence and 750¥).
The way first aid works, I'd suggest dropping the one in it and boosting one of your other skills higher (Dodge maybe). Likewise, I'd suggest dropping some of the specializations (it's much more efficient to pick them up after CC) and raising skills with the points. Demolitions is likewise useless to you at that low of a level when coupled with your low logic.
Proposed Changes:
Active Skills: 162 bp
Athletics Skill Group: 2
Longarms (Sniper Rifles): 6(+2)
Dodge: 4
Automatics: 2
Infiltration: 4 (Urban +2)
Outdoors Skill Group: 3
Blades: 4
Armorer:2
Etiquette: 1
Perception: 4
As far as other general suggestions, I have two.
A.) Restricted gear for cheap augmentations is probably not worth it unless its a one or two shot campaign. You'd still be at 18 dice with your longarms skill (21 if you take the time to aim at the target like a sniper would) if you drop Muscle Toner to 2. The two dice aren't going to be a big deal and can easily be picked up after CC (either 16k or 32k if your GM doesn't let you upgrade gear like Aug. implies).
B.) Pick up some more qualities. You can pick up another 15 points of negative qualities which would give you more points to spend on either positive qualities, skills, gear, contacts, etc. Think of how you want to play the character and pick up negative qualities that fit with it.
For your weapons:
A.) Pick up a personalized grip for your survival knife (100¥ and +1 die when using it).
B.) Give your SMG some recoil comp, or just ditch in and the automatics skills and sink more money into your longarms (shotgun specifically).
Suggestions aside:
Rating 6 SIN is higher avail than 12.
If your GM uses the armor mod rules from Arsenal about rating * 1.5, your chameleon suit is one point over max modification ratings.
By RAW, Shotguns can't accept Gas Vent systems.
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Edge is a good choice to boost, because if you want him to execute extremely challenging shots (like your heli/crosswind/3-sec window example) it pays to have some luck on your side.
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Make your own luck, and Snipe with a Panther Assault Cannon or Grenade Launcher. Close counts when firing high-ex after all. ;D
OK, OK, I just like the big booms. :P
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Drop Apptiude Longarms and Longarms 7. It may be characterful, but he's still an amazing world class sniper without it... and he also has 18 build points to spend elsewhere. Where? Dunno offhand, but thats a damn fine trade for losing a die.
Possible places to spend those points.
- Raising Edge
- Dodge 4 with speciality
- Reaction enhancers plus Perception increasing 'ware
- Put the running and climbing together, buy Athletics 3
Hell, I'd rework that skill as well. Being world class is all well and good, but the 26 points spent in Longarms + Sniper Spec can be rolled into the 8 points in pistols and the 8 points in automatics. All up that's 42 points. 40 points buys the firearms group to 4, which when combined with agility of 9 gives you 13 dice before aiming or targeting assists. And 2 points to be spent elsewhere along with the 18 mentioned in the quote. This is while enabling the character to be a long range weapons expert who prefers a stealth approach. But this way he can use the right tool for the right job. A guy on a rooftop 500 meters away who lays down suppression fire can be a real lifesaver to a team in ways that a sniper wouldn't be.
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I find that the weapon specialist build with a focus on sniping works better. that is, give him automatic weapons and a sidearm and a shotgun or two, etc. Basically, have one weapon of most types and bolster AGI and REA as much as you can. that way, when the team needs suppressing fire, your assault rifle can handle it. and when the team needs overwatch, your sniper is good for the job. and in those social situations in a secure facility, knowing how to use that sidearm or knife is crucial. For that reason, you may want to:
Dump the restricted gear and go for a slightly lesser version, and make upgrading that the character's first order of business for run proceeds.
Ensure everything is smartlinked.
Maybe do some basic weapon modding like Personalized grips on everything.
reduce skill values in high skills and increase it in low ones pertaining to this specialty. or just grab the skill group for firearms.
Add some RP value and personality to the build, perhaps with negative mental qualities. (to make him/her more fun to play)
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And a good backstory!