Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: revaddict on <09-21-11/1642:27>
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I have my first game this Friday night and I just realized a potential problem with my story.
At the beginning of the story, an NPC courier will hire the PCs to protect him while he delivers a dingus to its next location. The NPC needs to die right after hiring the PCs, leaving the job in their hands. How can I kill the NPC, but have him live long enough to make a dramatic, dying plea to the PCs and yet keep the PC mage from healing him? Any ideas?
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Find another way to do it - players are going to screw up your plans no matter what you do, and forcing something like this on them is going to scream "railroad", and they hate that even more.
If an NPC has to be dead for something to work in the game, he has to die off camera, otherwise the players can try to thwart it, and usually come up with all manner of ways to do it.
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I have my first game this Friday night and I just realized a potential problem with my story.
At the beginning of the story, an NPC courier will hire the PCs to protect him while he delivers a dingus to its next location. The NPC needs to die right after hiring the PCs, leaving the job in their hands. How can I kill the NPC, but have him live long enough to make a dramatic, dying plea to the PCs and yet keep the PC mage from healing him? Any ideas?
If he doesn't have a high enough body his damage overflow (I may be mixing up terms here) won't be much. So like a person with 2 body for example will have 9 HP, and before he keels over and dies permanently he has 1 turn unless whatever killed him did 10 Physical damage. In which case he be dead unless he burns edge. So having a low body score might help kill him.
<.< a spirit could pop in and kill him, not sure what most of the group would be able to do to drive him off, the mage could probably hurt the spirit.
>.> They could come accross his body and there's sort of a "last will" and a promised reward to however does it. Or sends a video recording right before he dies. That might get them jumpin. xD
Sorry, I can't really think of anything too creative right now, i'll reach back to you hopefully soon.
(the guy waiting impatiently for silent hill....)
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Alternatively you can kill him off one shot, have the PCs framed for his death and force them to do the job or face the consequences. I don't know for who the NPC works but corps can get edgy when people with job to do die before they have the time to pull it off.
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There's always hitting him with Naga Venom or White Star. But I think you're asking the wrong question. Instead, it's "How do the players know where to take the dingus," with maybe a side order of "what reason do they have for delivering the dingus?"
If you want to add the frustration of trying to find where to deliver, just answer the last question and maybe a hint or two for the first.
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I can think of a couple ways you could do it. There are probably many more.
Hit him with a custom spell, Suffocate, kind of like a reverse Oxygenate. Give him enough time to gasp out a few last requests while the PCs spin in circles wondering why he's choking. Maybe they figure it out but they can lose the race to stop the magic before he goes.
Or, tag him with some capsule rounds of a toxin. Envelop him in a cloud of something unpleasant like Seven-7 that will keep the PC magician at bay, unable to touch/heal him while still giving the NPC a couple rounds to communicate before expiring. Oops, looks like Kirk beat me to the venom/toxin suggestion.
I wouldn't be afraid to bend a rule or a roll in the story's cause. If it happens right at the beginning then I think the PCs will accept it as an integral part of the plot and won't feel unfairly deprived of the opportunity to save this schmoe. If they get all pouty then you can say that they saved his life but not before irreversible brain damage that leaves him unfit to accompany or assist them, etc etc.
Tec
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Basically if you catch him unarmored, and do a called shot, and if the guy just happened to be surprised it will probably just flat out lay the guy out. If any of the suggestions before hand didn't help not sure what else we'd be able to give you. :D Hope your campaign goes well! Here's for the best!
(goes back to preparing his level 10 character for DnD Saturday night)
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Fire.
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Fire.
Not just fire.... lots and lots of fire.
Cranial bomb induced maybe?
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Fuel-Air Explosive?
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How can I kill the NPC, but have him live long enough to make a dramatic, dying plea to the PCs and yet keep the PC mage from healing him? Any ideas?
Let's not forget an important clause of the original request, emphasis mine. My limited understanding of anatomy and explosives leads me to believe that a cranial bomb would preempt any departing thoughts or last requests.
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Have the very information he imparts to the players be the trigger for a Cranial Bomb.
Infect him with a powerful disease that the PCs can't identify to heal.
Lop off like 3 of his limbs and have him bleeding out rapidly as they talk to him, obviously going to die in seconds. Mechanically, say he burned an Edge to barely stay alive with -20 damage, so if they try to heal him it will be way too much damage to heal and the mage knocks himself out with the Drain or doesn't heal enough to save him.
Toxins as stated above
Hey, you stole my Suffocate spell! (Though i call it Suffer)
Assassinate him after he imparts the info, regardless of PC healing him.
Make the dramatic saving of his life an option and an epic scene it's own right.
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Have the very information he imparts to the players be the trigger for a Cranial Bomb.
Infect him with a powerful disease that the PCs can't identify to heal.
Lop off like 3 of his limbs and have him bleeding out rapidly as they talk to him, obviously going to die in seconds. Mechanically, say he burned an Edge to barely stay alive with -20 damage, so if they try to heal him it will be way too much damage to heal and the mage knocks himself out with the Drain or doesn't heal enough to save him.
Toxins as stated above
Hey, you stole my Suffocate spell! (Though i call it Suffer)
Assassinate him after he imparts the info, regardless of PC healing him.
Make the dramatic saving of his life an option and an epic scene it's own right.
That's what I was implying with the cranial bomb... xD
(as in he's not supposed to say this information out loud or whatever)
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Make it so the PC's aren't actually present. They get hired for the job, and are told to meet the courier at 0600 tomorrow outside of a bank to make the delivery. At 3 AM one of the team members gets a frantic comm-call from the courier. He makes the plea as the baddies are kicking in the door of his apartment. Only has enough time to give them a code though before he gets riddled with bullets. Turns out the code is a safety deposit box number in the bank the PC's were supposed to meet him outside of. If you want to be nice that's the code to open it. If you want to be a jerk then it's keyed to his biometrics . The PC's need to find a way to get a blood sample or a fingerprint (or both) off the courier's rapidly cooling corpse before Doc Wagon scoops it up and then con their way past the bank staff to get into the safe deposit box. Only then can they actually start trying to figure out how to go about delivering the Mcguffin.
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Make it so the PC's aren't actually present. They get hired for the job, and are told to meet the courier at 0600 tomorrow outside of a bank to make the delivery. At 3 AM one of the team members gets a frantic comm-call from the courier. He makes the plea as the baddies are kicking in the door of his apartment. Only has enough time to give them a code though before he gets riddled with bullets. Turns out the code is a safety deposit box number in the bank the PC's were supposed to meet him outside of. If you want to be nice that's the code to open it. If you want to be a jerk then it's keyed to his biometrics . The PC's need to find a way to get a blood sample or a fingerprint (or both) off the courier's rapidly cooling corpse before Doc Wagon scoops it up and then con their way past the bank staff to get into the safe deposit box. Only then can they actually start trying to figure out how to go about delivering the Mcguffin.
They find out it's a pink bunny plushie. (then they find out it's 1 of only 10 made and every rich girl wants one! xD)
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Sniper fire. As they are talking to him, the sniper fires and mortally wounds him. The players dive for cover, unable to reach him due to the sniper keeping them pinned.
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Have him get infected with weaponized nanotech, such as Surtr
Surtr
Vector: Contact, Inhalation Speed: 1 minute Penetration: 0
Power: 10
Effect: Physical damage (special)
Developed for interdiction purposes by Zeta-Imp Chem and stolen by the Winternight cult to use in their doomsday plans, surtr is an aerosol vector nanoweapon. This hard machine system is designed to remain airborne for up to 30 minutes on micro- propellers (while in this state it is vulnerable to strong winds and dissipation will reduce Power at the gamemaster’s discretion). While in suspension, surer appears as a cloud of red-dish dust. When it comes into contact with organic tissue, its internal and external membranes collapse and its deadly payload of exotic chemicals mix. These chemicals react with water molecules in cells, acting as accelerants. The result is spontaneous combustion of living tissues, burning the victim at temperatures up to 500 degrees Celsius. Treat surtr damage as Fire damage (p. 155, SR4) only affecting organic tissue at first (though burning tissue may ignite other materials).
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Have him behind a door, he "saves" the PC's by noticing a trap before they can get in. He tells them who might be behind it. Now you have them finishing a job and wanting payback for a failed hit on them. Maybe add in an explosion or two. But a room with Ringu in it would have the guy dying with no chance for saving and his finals act would be to save their life and hopefully ensure they follow through.
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There are magical techniques to ensuring silence. The Triads use them why not someone else? So far, none has survived the ritual... No medical or magical ability has stopped the death of anyone who "betrays" the caster of the spell.
Or like Fastjack said sniper fire. Have the first shot mortally wound him, he tells the runners the goods, the Mage heals him.... Second shot cores his skull..... (ie: fills his damage overflow)
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Also, if you're wanting to just keep the group medic from healing him, give him a high Willpower and Magic Resistant 4 as a positive quality.
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Corn..nuts.
8)
Or maybe some kind of food alergy previously unknown. Allergic to Soy all of the sudden? DAMN!
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Mage: Ignite is a good spell. It takes a couple of rounds to kill, but is very hard to stop (even with counterspelling). Between the confusion and screams as the courier starts rolling around on the floor in agony (and cooking flesh) he can yell out some clues about
'...that damned pyromaniac!...
'...should never have taken this job...'
...'etc etc
Sniper: <Someone mentioned before but it's simple enough to mention twice>
Poison: Have the courier eat something and start frothing at the mouth. Let it take a while to kill him by just sucking down damage boxes like a ticking clock....Courier knows he's dead, but has a couple of combat turns to get a message out.
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I have my first game this Friday night and I just realized a potential problem with my story.
At the beginning of the story, an NPC courier will hire the PCs to protect him while he delivers a dingus to its next location. The NPC needs to die right after hiring the PCs, leaving the job in their hands. How can I kill the NPC, but have him live long enough to make a dramatic, dying plea to the PCs and yet keep the PC mage from healing him? Any ideas?
Do it in the background count domain :) Give him Magical resistance 4 Positive quality....Poison him...but only if mage doesn`t have detox spell.
Like manz others said...shot him...and during the healing procedure....shot him again.
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Okay, I appreciate all the thoughts!
As was pointed out, the difficulty isn't killing the NPC; it's killing him but making sure he gives the PCs the info they need before he dies--without the PC's mage healing him.
My original idea was that the NPC gets mortally wounded in a drive-by shooting as they walk out of the bar where he hires the PCs and then, bleeding to death on the sidewalk, he tells them where to take the dingus. Now that I think about it more, there's no reason he can't give them that information when he hires them; then he's expendable after that. One head shot will put him down before the team's mage can heal him.
I do like the idea someone suggested of having him die off-camera while leaving info for the PCs over the phone. I think about that more too.
Thanks so much for your help!
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Okay, I appreciate all the thoughts!
As was pointed out, the difficulty isn't killing the NPC; it's killing him but making sure he gives the PCs the info they need before he dies--without the PC's mage healing him.
My original idea was that the NPC gets mortally wounded in a drive-by shooting as they walk out of the bar where he hires the PCs and then, bleeding to death on the sidewalk, he tells them where to take the dingus. Now that I think about it more, there's no reason he can't give them that information when he hires them; then he's expendable after that. One head shot will put him down before the team's mage can heal him.
I do like the idea someone suggested of having him die off-camera while leaving info for the PCs over the phone. I think about that more too.
Thanks so much for your help!
Whoy dont have this info on his commlink, protected by IC, so players have to put some efforts into gaining it.The sure wont let this pass so easilly that they wont search the body and look for some leads as who and why did it to the NPC...
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You could also simply not kill him but incapacitate him in some way that he can't do the courier job himself. Have him step off a curb and get hit by a car, live through the accident, but need medical attention beyond what can be provided on the street and/or magic. Give him two cyberlegs and they get mangled in the crash. He's alive, and the mage can patch up his hurt, but unless the team has a cybertechnician and a place to do the work, he's going to need to see a mechanic before he's doing much courier-ing.
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You could also simply not kill him but incapacitate him in some way that he can't do the courier job himself. Have him step off a curb and get hit by a car, live through the accident, but need medical attention beyond what can be provided on the street and/or magic. Give him two cyberlegs and they get mangled in the crash. He's alive, and the mage can patch up his hurt, but unless the team has a cybertechnician and a place to do the work, he's going to need to see a mechanic before he's doing much courier-ing.
Nice. Can't heal what's not there!
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To quickly combine a few points people have made regarding style, intent, and the willing suspension of disbelief, kill the guy off-scene in such a manner that the information is provided to the players because most any other solution will present an opportunity for the players to stop his death.
To take some of the good examples of ways to kill the guy:
Sniper fire? Meet Slow (War) or Physical Barrier (core book) or bound spirit of any variety to interpose. Beefy troll. Convenient cover.
Poison? Detox spell, Rating 6 Medkit + Edge.
Cranial bomb? I'm looking for easier money than this...
And if you work around your players long enough to make sure the guy's dead, you've defeated your players and left them frustrated at you, not the antagonist. Killing him off-screen lets the players off the hook for not saving him and there are dozens of reasons they might want to complete the job.
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However you decide to kill the NPC to make sure they do the job have the Payment kept in escrow with it transferred to them by who they're delivering it to.
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You can always keep it simple when you need someone to die dramaticly.. At the cost of being a little cheap, tell the healer that the person is beyond the help of anyone but a major medical facility right now. Tell them that they can make a test to make the man die conforbly, but that there's no real way to save him.
Most players understand when something happens to an NPC and it's for dramatic reasons. Some players will feel cheated if their healer can't save the person, but just assure them that you can't save them all.
IE: "You come across a courier standing over the bodies of two unknown men, but it looks like they got him pretty well too. Blood stains the whole front of his bullet riddled armor and flecks his lips as he takes a shuddering breath.
'Hey Chummer, need a job?'
He ask with gallows humor, his own life already spent, the only thing keeping him alive his rapidly failing cybernetic enhancements. With aid, he might live for half an hour before death peacefully clams him. Without, he's going to die in agony before he finishes the cigarette he's trying to light with a broken hand."
This is the "DM Fillibuster" method. It introduces the setting and certain immutable facts: The man's dead. But it also gives them things they can do, and makes the medic/healer useful. (Keep him alive longer to give them more information and maybe a point of Karma for letting another shadowrunner die easy, job handed off and in a haze of painkillers.)
Or you could always go crazy, and let them save the man if they really try. Just have him too weak/wounded to finish the job in that case, and maybe show up later walking with a cane or on a new cyberlimb.
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The GM Fillibuster definitely works better than plain old "GM Fiat" (Nope, he's dead, bugger off, no you can't heal him, nope, nope, nope). And it works better than using the game mechanics to forcefully frustrate any / all efforts by the players. The only drawback it poses is if the group really doesn't like suspending the rules system to allow for better drama, and if they feel this way, you might want to have a talk with your group about everyone's expectations at the table.
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The other thing to remember is that healing or a medkit take time to work. If someone is mortally wounded (ie 1 box from death) on average they have taken about 11 boxes of damage.
For healing the time that the spell needs to be sustained to make it permanent is twice the Drain Value. So in the above stated instance it would take 18 combat turns for the healing to occur. During that time the victim would ltake two more boxes of damage. Ooops he dies while you are healing.
First Aid is a bit more doable(depending on GM ruling), but only if they think ahead . It takes a number of combat turns equal to the number of boxes attempted to be healed. If the ruling is that you always attempt to heal all boxes of damage then it would take 11 combat turns to heal and like above the victim bleeds out during the process. If you rule that it is possible to try and treat a lower number of boxes you could go after 3 boxes to take the victim out of the woods, and would accomplish this before bleedout, but the NPC will be in no shape to do anything being 1 box from unconscious and unable to be healed short of a hospital at this point..
Now a mage could stabilize then heal the victim, but the heal would probably leave him hurting himself.
The other thing is that as people have said many times including in this thread I believe is that players will always surprise you. If you go the gunshot route they might well spend the couple of rounds circling the wagons, listening to the dying message, and trying to get the sniper rather than healing the victim. I recently ran a game where when the team met with the Johnson to get paid and drop off the goods the meet was ambushed by a third party. The Johnson took a sniper round to start the combat. My plan was that Johnson realizing he needs more backup will hire the team to go with him to his buyer for an additional fee. The meet was on the street in the Barrens between the teams van and the Johnson's car. Johnson gets shot and the character meeting with him jumps into the van and as Johnson makes his plea the character left him in the open (they hadn't been paid for the run yet either) as the only target visible and Mr. Johnson takes three more rounds in the combat turn. Things got ugly from there and they ended up not getting paid for the run they did even as they drove off and left Johnson behind.
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There is rule for stabilization of wounde character, successfull test stops further bleeding and character can be taken care of- first aid etc...
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The other thing to remember is that healing or a medkit take time to work. If someone is mortally wounded (ie 1 box from death) on average they have taken about 11 boxes of damage.
For healing the time that the spell needs to be sustained to make it permanent is twice the Drain Value. So in the above stated instance it would take 18 combat turns for the healing to occur. During that time the victim would ltake two more boxes of damage. Ooops he dies while you are healing.
First Aid is a bit more doable(depending on GM ruling), but only if they think ahead . It takes a number of combat turns equal to the number of boxes attempted to be healed. If the ruling is that you always attempt to heal all boxes of damage then it would take 11 combat turns to heal and like above the victim bleeds out during the process. If you rule that it is possible to try and treat a lower number of boxes you could go after 3 boxes to take the victim out of the woods, and would accomplish this before bleedout, but the NPC will be in no shape to do anything being 1 box from unconscious and unable to be healed short of a hospital at this point..
Now a mage could stabilize then heal the victim, but the heal would probably leave him hurting himself.
The other thing is that as people have said many times including in this thread I believe is that players will always surprise you. If you go the gunshot route they might well spend the couple of rounds circling the wagons, listening to the dying message, and trying to get the sniper rather than healing the victim. I recently ran a game where when the team met with the Johnson to get paid and drop off the goods the meet was ambushed by a third party. The Johnson took a sniper round to start the combat. My plan was that Johnson realizing he needs more backup will hire the team to go with him to his buyer for an additional fee. The meet was on the street in the Barrens between the teams van and the Johnson's car. Johnson gets shot and the character meeting with him jumps into the van and as Johnson makes his plea the character left him in the open (they hadn't been paid for the run yet either) as the only target visible and Mr. Johnson takes three more rounds in the combat turn. Things got ugly from there and they ended up not getting paid for the run they did even as they drove off and left Johnson behind.
wow that's cold... xD
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The other thing to remember is that healing or a medkit take time to work. If someone is mortally wounded (ie 1 box from death) on average they have taken about 11 boxes of damage.
For healing the time that the spell needs to be sustained to make it permanent is twice the Drain Value. So in the above stated instance it would take 18 combat turns for the healing to occur. During that time the victim would ltake two more boxes of damage. Ooops he dies while you are healing.
First Aid is a bit more doable(depending on GM ruling), but only if they think ahead . It takes a number of combat turns equal to the number of boxes attempted to be healed. If the ruling is that you always attempt to heal all boxes of damage then it would take 11 combat turns to heal and like above the victim bleeds out during the process. If you rule that it is possible to try and treat a lower number of boxes you could go after 3 boxes to take the victim out of the woods, and would accomplish this before bleedout, but the NPC will be in no shape to do anything being 1 box from unconscious and unable to be healed short of a hospital at this point..
Now a mage could stabilize then heal the victim, but the heal would probably leave him hurting himself.
The other thing is that as people have said many times including in this thread I believe is that players will always surprise you. If you go the gunshot route they might well spend the couple of rounds circling the wagons, listening to the dying message, and trying to get the sniper rather than healing the victim. I recently ran a game where when the team met with the Johnson to get paid and drop off the goods the meet was ambushed by a third party. The Johnson took a sniper round to start the combat. My plan was that Johnson realizing he needs more backup will hire the team to go with him to his buyer for an additional fee. The meet was on the street in the Barrens between the teams van and the Johnson's car. Johnson gets shot and the character meeting with him jumps into the van and as Johnson makes his plea the character left him in the open (they hadn't been paid for the run yet either) as the only target visible and Mr. Johnson takes three more rounds in the combat turn. Things got ugly from there and they ended up not getting paid for the run they did even as they drove off and left Johnson behind.
wow that's cold... xD
No, it aint. Underlned text is appliable only if stabilizing wasnt done yet, and it is not too difficult to stabilize victim...or at least it should be done very quickly. AFB now, Ill send a reference later.
Without this first aid would be completely useles...I dont understand what it means: ...think ahead...in this situation...like applying first aid before character even gets hurt?
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The other thing to remember is that healing or a medkit take time to work. If someone is mortally wounded (ie 1 box from death) on average they have taken about 11 boxes of damage.
For healing the time that the spell needs to be sustained to make it permanent is twice the Drain Value. So in the above stated instance it would take 18 combat turns for the healing to occur. During that time the victim would ltake two more boxes of damage. Ooops he dies while you are healing.
First Aid is a bit more doable(depending on GM ruling), but only if they think ahead . It takes a number of combat turns equal to the number of boxes attempted to be healed. If the ruling is that you always attempt to heal all boxes of damage then it would take 11 combat turns to heal and like above the victim bleeds out during the process. If you rule that it is possible to try and treat a lower number of boxes you could go after 3 boxes to take the victim out of the woods, and would accomplish this before bleedout, but the NPC will be in no shape to do anything being 1 box from unconscious and unable to be healed short of a hospital at this point..
Now a mage could stabilize then heal the victim, but the heal would probably leave him hurting himself.
The other thing is that as people have said many times including in this thread I believe is that players will always surprise you. If you go the gunshot route they might well spend the couple of rounds circling the wagons, listening to the dying message, and trying to get the sniper rather than healing the victim. I recently ran a game where when the team met with the Johnson to get paid and drop off the goods the meet was ambushed by a third party. The Johnson took a sniper round to start the combat. My plan was that Johnson realizing he needs more backup will hire the team to go with him to his buyer for an additional fee. The meet was on the street in the Barrens between the teams van and the Johnson's car. Johnson gets shot and the character meeting with him jumps into the van and as Johnson makes his plea the character left him in the open (they hadn't been paid for the run yet either) as the only target visible and Mr. Johnson takes three more rounds in the combat turn. Things got ugly from there and they ended up not getting paid for the run they did even as they drove off and left Johnson behind.
wow that's cold... xD
No, it aint. Underlned text is appliable only if stabilizing wasnt done yet, and it is not too difficult to stabilize victim...or at least it should be done very quickly. AFB now, Ill send a reference later.
Without this first aid would be completely useles...I dont understand what it means: ...think ahead...in this situation...like applying first aid before character even gets hurt?
I meant the getting the hell out of dodge and leaving the johnson behind was cold. (to me) Sorry I wasn't more specific, I knew there might be some confusion but I left it short anyways. I appologize.
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Bah, the Johnson was just going to screw them in the end anyhow...
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What about having him get shot in the heart and then invoking the dead man's trigger rule? 164 SR4A
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Shot through the heart... But who's to blame?
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Shot through the heart... But who's to blame?
Sorry, man. Bon Jovi is going to get a Smite.
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Shot through the heart... But who's to blame?
Sorry, man. Bon Jovi is going to get a Smite.
You give love a bad name. :P
What you don't like Bon Jovi, FastJack?
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
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Shot through the heart... But who's to blame?
Sorry, man. Bon Jovi is going to get a Smite.
You give love a bad name. :P
What you don't like Bon Jovi, FastJack?
He just has a very smite-able nature.
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Shot through the heart... But who's to blame?
Sorry, man. Bon Jovi is going to get a Smite.
You give love a bad name. :P
What you don't like Bon Jovi, FastJack?
He just has a very smite-able nature.
Are you his -16 smites then? lol!
Anyways >.> I'm 20 almost 21 and consider myself towards the younger and I still got that... <.<
*shrugs* aw well.
:D
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I don't get it. Bon Jovi?
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You tube him.
Shot through the heart is a tune he made way back (I really don't remember when).
Rasmus
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You tube him.
Shot through the heart is a tune he made way back (I really don't remember when).
Rasmus
People are also horrible at remembering the lyrics of that song.... just a fun fact.
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
I'm sure they remember him as the plumber from Ally McBeal :P
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
I'm sure they remember him as the plumber from Ally McBeal :P
I admittedly do not. XD
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
I'm sure they remember him as the plumber from Ally McBeal :P
Even Ally has become dated. Show hasn't been on since 2002, meaning teenagers today probably don't even remember it.
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
I'm sure they remember him as the plumber from Ally McBeal :P
Even Ally has become dated. Show hasn't been on since 2002, meaning teenagers today probably don't even remember it.
And some of us are old enough to have seen this cycle more than once, and laugh at the consternation of the first-timers.
I was 16 when the question was "Jaclyn or Farrah?" (grin)
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Hey, forgetting my roots!
How to kill the PC?
Bomb vest. Can the PCs get it off of him in time? Signs point to "No." (Remember: Gremlins only affects you NEGATIVELY, you won't fry the clock, you'll speed it up and make him go boom faster!).
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
I'm sure they remember him as the plumber from Ally McBeal :P
Even Ally has become dated. Show hasn't been on since 2002, meaning teenagers today probably don't even remember it.
And some of us are old enough to have seen this cycle more than once, and laugh at the consternation of the first-timers.
I was 16 when the question was "Jaclyn or Farrah?" (grin)
Jaclyn, hands down. Although Cheryl and Kate were nice too. The new girls (http://abc.go.com/watch/charlies-angels/SH55126537?CID=bing_sem_1) have a lot to live up to.
*ahem*
Back on topic: You could also have the "bad guys" summon a Force 6+ Earth Elemental and use the Engulf power on him.
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Pop culture references age badly. I'm sure most of the kids on the forums are wondering what the hell I'm quoting and who the hell this Jon Bovi guy is. :P
I'm sure they remember him as the plumber from Ally McBeal :P
Even Ally has become dated. Show hasn't been on since 2002, meaning teenagers today probably don't even remember it.
And some of us are old enough to have seen this cycle more than once, and laugh at the consternation of the first-timers.
I was 16 when the question was "Jaclyn or Farrah?" (grin)
Jaclyn, hands down. Although Cheryl and Kate were nice too. The new girls (http://abc.go.com/watch/charlies-angels/SH55126537?CID=bing_sem_1) have a lot to live up to.
*ahem*
Back on topic: You could also have the "bad guys" summon a Force 6+ Earth Elemental and use the Engulf power on him.
Oh god.... >.>
Btw on the topic of summons spirits. What's the highest spirit there is? Me and my friends were joking about summoning a level 24F spirit. (A mage initiated up to 6 with 6 magic and increased up to 12 Magic)
We wanted to know if there was a maximum? and also how rediculous would a 24F spirit be? on par with a Dragon? or could it take a dragon? xD
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Ask Buttercup how powerful she is. Dunkie could only control her because he knew her Real Name.
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We wanted to know if there was a maximum? and also how rediculous would a 24F spirit be? on par with a Dragon? or could it take a dragon? xD
The summoned spirit’s Force is limited by the magician’s Magic attribute. If the magician wants to summon a spirit with Force higher than her Magic, follow the same rules as given for Overcasting spells (p. 182) and apply Physical Drain. No magician may summon a spirit whose Force is greater than twice her Magic attribute.
Now, consider that Lofwyr has a Magic attribute of 27. Remember that, next time you think you might have the upper hand because you're carrying a Thermal Detonator during your negotiations.
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Oh, no, I summon a Force 24 spirit. It scores 8 hits! Soak 16P. Now the dragon summons a Force 30 spirit and shrugs off the Drain.
FIGHT!
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Metahuman, sauerkraut, und bier. Dinner of Dragons.
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We wanted to know if there was a maximum? and also how rediculous would a 24F spirit be? on par with a Dragon? or could it take a dragon? xD
The summoned spirit’s Force is limited by the magician’s Magic attribute. If the magician wants to summon a spirit with Force higher than her Magic, follow the same rules as given for Overcasting spells (p. 182) and apply Physical Drain. No magician may summon a spirit whose Force is greater than twice her Magic attribute.
Now, consider that Lofwyr has a Magic attribute of 27. Remember that, next time you think you might have the upper hand because you're carrying a Thermal Detonator during your negotiations.
Lofwyr the Hutt?
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We wanted to know if there was a maximum? and also how rediculous would a 24F spirit be? on par with a Dragon? or could it take a dragon? xD
The summoned spirit’s Force is limited by the magician’s Magic attribute. If the magician wants to summon a spirit with Force higher than her Magic, follow the same rules as given for Overcasting spells (p. 182) and apply Physical Drain. No magician may summon a spirit whose Force is greater than twice her Magic attribute.
Now, consider that Lofwyr has a Magic attribute of 27. Remember that, next time you think you might have the upper hand because you're carrying a Thermal Detonator during your negotiations.
Actually a Thermal Detonator it depends on the grade. If you get the good stuff.... well there isn't going to be anything left of the building your in. The best thing about Thermal detonators however is, it doesn't have a concussive force. Literally if your 1 inch out of the blast radius you take no damage whatsoever. of course if half your bodies in it, then half your body is vaporized.
(Star wars knowledge.... happens when your running a Star Wars RP site for 5 years)
Don't know how many of you will get this but!!!
HAN SHOT FIRST!
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AMEN Zilfer! AMEN! But back on topic in one of the newer Shadowrun books dated I want to say just before Crash 2.0 (I think the name of it was Fallen Angels but don't quote me on that). They mention a Spirit in Tir Tarnagire that is just short of Godlike in Force. Technically, there is no limit to force because technically with initation there is no limit to magic. Just soaking all that drain from summoning a force 42 spirit would suck.
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AMEN Zilfer! AMEN! But back on topic in one of the newer Shadowrun books dated I want to say just before Crash 2.0 (I think the name of it was Fallen Angels but don't quote me on that). They mention a Spirit in Tir Tarnagire that is just short of Godlike in Force. Technically, there is no limit to force because technically with initation there is no limit to magic. Just soaking all that drain from summoning a force 42 spirit would suck.
I thought there was a limit to the amount you could initiate? o.O
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The only limit is karma cost. Oh, and Grade cannot exceed magic, Magic cannot exceed natural max.
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The only limit is karma cost. Oh, and Grade cannot exceed magic, Magic cannot exceed natural max.
oh so wait.... i get it now.
6 Magic, I have maximum of initiate 1. <.< Then i take the initiation then get 7 magic.
Which means my maximum is now 7 initiation which pretty much means it can go on in an endless cycle.... if you have forever to play this guy and make him beastly.
Resisting drain when your getting 1 dice per initation level it might not be that bad. (centering that is)
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No, 6 Magic, you have a maximum initiate of 6. If you lose Magic to below your initiate, you lose the grade as well. Magic maxes at Essence rounded down plus initiate grade minus any permanent losses to Magic from other sources, if that rule is used from Street Magic.
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No, 6 Magic, you have a maximum initiate of 6. If you lose Magic to below your initiate, you lose the grade as well. Magic maxes at Essence rounded down plus initiate grade minus any permanent losses to Magic from other sources, if that rule is used from Street Magic.
Ah so Maximum initiative grade is not equalled to magic even after you initiate and bump your magic up one stat then?
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No, the max is precisely equal to current Magic.
A Magic 5 character can have Magic anywhere from 0 to 5, but no higher. A Magic 4 character can have a grade between 0 and 4. A Magic 15 character can have a Grade anywhere from 9 to 15. As long as the Grade supports current Magic and the Grade is not higher than current Magic you are good.
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No, the max is precisely equal to current Magic.
A Magic 5 character can have Magic anywhere from 0 to 5, but no higher. A Magic 4 character can have a grade between 0 and 4. A Magic 15 character can have a Grade anywhere from 9 to 15. As long as the Grade supports current Magic and the Grade is not higher than current Magic you are good.
I think there may be some miss communication from what either I'm saying or what I'm reading.
So lets take a magic 1 person. They initiatve level 1, and then spend karma to bring their magic up to 2. Magic 2 thus maximum possible initiative grade is now 2? so they spend karma to initative (sorry spelling) and bring it to level 2, and bring their magic up to level 3 with karma. Making their initiative able to go up yet again? And magic and Initiative grades just keep helping eachother higher and higher? or am I missing something here? Sorry, i'm not quite understanding where i'm missunderstanding.
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Zilfer you are right. The maximum level you can initiate to is your current magic rating.
The maximum your magic can be is 6+ your initiation level. So a level 1 initiate has a max magic of 7.
It is NOT under any racial maximum. If you get street legends there are several metahuman characters with magic of 10+
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the way I have always understood the rules is if you have a magic of 6 then Initiate to level one, you can then get a max magic of 7. so that once you have an Initiate grade of 6 you can have a max magic of 12 plus 6 for initiate. that being said if you have a skill rank of spell casting 6 you have 24 dice to cast.
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Not sure myself that's why I was asking however. To get high magic it still requires loads of Karma considering you get 3-5 karma a game? And you need like 35 Karma to increase magic to 7? (what i'm working on) I've already paid 13 karma for initiation but I think i'm going to MAYBE shoot for Magic 8 and then stop there. I might like to pick up some Face skills. xD
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My group shoots for 7-12 Karma per adventure. On average. But adventures span more than one night.
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My group shoots for 7-12 Karma per adventure. On average. But adventures span more than one night.
Indeed, that was the same before I limited it to 1 night, since Food and space are the issue. xD Feeding 8+ mouths happen to be quite an expensive hobbie considering most of them do not work. XD