Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Zilfer on <09-27-11/1843:01>

Title: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <09-27-11/1843:01>
Got a few questions really....

How the heck do you see AR? I get the concept of VR and going limp something similiar to the matrix but in AR your still moving around with your body right and you just see things? To see AR you need a comlink right? well do you just point your comlink and on the screen shows you what it looks like AR? Or can you get goggles to see AR and you just switch it on?

Smartlink is AR right? (shows kinda like a Video game hud of how much bullets you have and stuff like that correct?)

<.< If you have a comlink in your head... <.< are you almost always using AR to access menus and the like with your mind? Or at least are the "display screens" in your head where no one else can see?

Still trying to get myself into the setting. I think if i was able to read a few stories or play in a few PbP games I might get more of the hang of the setting. xD Thanks for your patience and willingness to answer a billion questions.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Chaemera on <09-27-11/1858:13>
To the commlink in head vs seeing in AR, read over this thread (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4872.0).

As to seeing in AR in general, you need to have some form of AR visual interface (image link in glasses, contacts, goggles, or cybereyes; or a sim-module). At this point, you will see "AROs" pop up when you are in-range of them (fluff-wise, they appear to know "where" to appear in your vision, a menu above the table, for example, but how to explain this in terms of mechanics is more elusive). As to seeing nodes and other matrix specific info via AR, these are handled as pop-up windows on the "screen" of your vision.

Imagine everything you're looking at on your computer just floating in the air in front of you. You could "re-size" a window and move it to your peripheral vision (using AR gloves, DNI, etc), you could change it's transparency to see past it if it was too important to minimize (trid-call from mom, perhaps?), and so on and so forth. Most nodes would still appear sculpted (think video game interface), unless you over-rode their appearance to just give you a textual / 2D view (like this forum).

You're spot on about Smartlink, it's an AR interface with your gun, to work you must have the extra "smartlink" hardware in your AR-viewing device, as well as having a smartgun.

In all cases, unless you use a holo-projector (comm-link screen), AR is either projected over your vision (glasses, goggles, contacts, cybereyes) or generated inside your occipital lobe (DNI). At best, a person would be able to tell that you had AR screens up based on the light display of your glasses/goggles, but in general, I'd rule that they can't make out anything you're actually viewing. After all, the projection on your glasses/goggles is being generated to be viewed by your eye, at a fairly close range behind the lens, not by another person some distance in front of the lens.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <09-27-11/1940:51>
So when you mean "in range" I'm picturing looking at a table from the outside of a reasturant and not seeing it and then going inside it appears as I take a seat sort of thing or i'm about to sit.

Also what's the "additional hardware" you need for smartlink in your comlink to work with Smartlinked gun?
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: FastJack on <09-27-11/2350:33>
Smartlink simply needs to be added to whatever vision device you're using (goggles, glasses, contacts) in addition to Image Link and whatever else you add.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Joush on <09-28-11/0219:26>
AR is aware of your position when it's displayed, so you won't get an ordering menu from a resteraunt until you are inside and settled in.

As for how to picture AR? Imagine information and 3D objects overlaid  on the real world. Maybe a marker that shows you where you parked your car that seems to hover in the air over your car, or a text box that explains what the painting you are looking at is named and who it was made by. Or if you get bored, you can project a virtual deck of cards and play solitaire in mid air.

In SR4, there's so much AR information in the air around you that filtering it out is a big part of your comlink's job.

Oh, and you can use it for military reasons as well, of course. Any detected, armed people could glow with a faint red aura to draw the gaze. The back blast zone of a friendly's rocket launcher could be displayed to you, while overhead drones could relay hostile potions and mark them so you can see them though walls.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Makki on <09-28-11/0227:02>
a Rigger observing tacnet information from his drone sensors via AR:
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs47/f/2009/225/6/e/The_Rigger_by_tycarey.jpg)

you meeting some guy and AR displaying your information about him:
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/265/4/c/augmented_reality_by_korrupt10n-d4anbsc.png)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Joush on <09-28-11/0311:39>
An existing AR application you can get on a phone. This one shows how you might be hunting for a place to eat or get a drink.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Kobold on <09-28-11/0638:35>
This one might also give you an impression: http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=shadowrun&order=9&offset=192#/d25kp7i (http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=shadowrun&order=9&offset=192#/d25kp7i)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <09-28-11/0704:51>
This one might also give you an impression: http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=shadowrun&order=9&offset=192#/d25kp7i (http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=shadowrun&order=9&offset=192#/d25kp7i)

That's pretty cool, I must say.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Mason on <09-28-11/1256:13>
where didja get the art, makki? That is awesome!
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Makki on <09-28-11/1322:08>
2 minutes browsing deviantArt?!
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Mason on <09-28-11/1331:18>
Never heard of the site. By your tone I should have.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: FastJack on <09-28-11/1344:50>
DeviantArt  (http://www.deviantart.com/)is the largest and most well-known site for up-and-coming artists out there. Great resource.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <09-28-11/1353:29>
Never heard of the site. By your tone I should have.

Yes, it's were a lot of artist's (both drawing, painting, digital art) is displayed. A lot of people can do character searching for just the right pciture for your character. It's a pretty good site, and thanks I may have more questions here in a second. xD
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Crash_00 on <09-28-11/1459:00>
I don't know which I like more, the AR or the fact that two of the runners are Arthur Dent and Rupert Gyles.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: CanRay on <09-28-11/1531:22>
Never heard of the site. By your tone I should have.
Yes, it's were a lot of artist's (both drawing, painting, digital art) is displayed. A lot of people can do character searching for just the right pciture for your character. It's a pretty good site, and thanks I may have more questions here in a second. xD
Writer's as well. (http://canray.deviantart.com/)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: FastJack on <09-28-11/1648:10>
Never heard of the site. By your tone I should have.
Yes, it's were a lot of artist's (both drawing, painting, digital art) is displayed. A lot of people can do character searching for just the right pciture for your character. It's a pretty good site, and thanks I may have more questions here in a second. xD
Writer's as well. (http://canray.deviantart.com/)
Which reminds me, I really need to upload stories at some point.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: CanRay on <09-28-11/1752:22>
SWEET!   ;D
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: swliner on <09-28-11/1936:55>
Really, if you play the latest Deus Ex it does give a decent idea of what AR can look like.  Interesting items are highlighted, people are tagged, your ammo count is presented, your destination is marked with a floating icon in your field of view, etc.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <09-28-11/1956:11>
Really, if you play the latest Deus Ex it does give a decent idea of what AR can look like.  Interesting items are highlighted, people are tagged, your ammo count is presented, your destination is marked with a floating icon in your field of view, etc.

Sounds cool, just having a hard time getting to how to introduce it to the players so they use it more. Right now AR is hardly used in my game. >.> I'd most definately invent more AR things if they used it, most of them having comlinks in their head I beleive would be able to see it, if i remember the beginning of this topic correctly. i've yet to see someone try to use a smartlinked gun around a corner. (no penalty for that right because your looking where your gun is pointed right?)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <09-28-11/2008:46>
In game, do any of you GMs out there go to the trouble of describing the AR overlays of the various places that the 'runners go? I mean, basic AR overlays are everywhere, but what about more exotic stuff?
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Joush on <09-28-11/2135:16>
I toss out the occasional mention of neon drenched ARO's advertising all kinds of things and projected across buildings, and mention any rather notable ARO such as personal adds hovering over people in a bar, RFID gang tags on the street and the occasional street busker or beggar with a virtual sob story.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <09-28-11/2139:27>
I toss out the occasional mention of neon drenched ARO's advertising all kinds of things and projected across buildings, and mention any rather notable ARO such as personal adds hovering over people in a bar, RFID gang tags on the street and the occasional street busker or beggar with a virtual sob story.

No building interiors made out to look like medieval castles, or offices with beach views, or anything like that? I was wondering whether people use AR dressing on their backdrops, as well.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Crash_00 on <09-28-11/2246:00>
I have a lot of AR art in my games. A lot of corporate types will have a framed tag set that either features moving AR artwork or does a slideshow of AR artwork. I also have directions everywhere and for everything in AR that players can filter easily.

The main thing that they've noticed (although this is primarily due to their poor planning) are the AR sirens and police issued commands. Cop cars actually have a Red/Blue Shield that hovers around them when their sirens are on (Ambulances and Fire Engines have similar AROs with related themes). If a police officer is yelling at you to drop you gun, his comm is going to be broadcasting that message in an ARO that will get translated into a dozen popular languages and plopped on you image link. This is all of course just my interpretation of little fluff things that should be there in the 2072 world.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <09-29-11/1846:32>
I have a lot of AR art in my games. A lot of corporate types will have a framed tag set that either features moving AR artwork or does a slideshow of AR artwork. I also have directions everywhere and for everything in AR that players can filter easily.

The main thing that they've noticed (although this is primarily due to their poor planning) are the AR sirens and police issued commands. Cop cars actually have a Red/Blue Shield that hovers around them when their sirens are on (Ambulances and Fire Engines have similar AROs with related themes). If a police officer is yelling at you to drop you gun, his comm is going to be broadcasting that message in an ARO that will get translated into a dozen popular languages and plopped on you image link. This is all of course just my interpretation of little fluff things that should be there in the 2072 world.

Interesting. I may have to do that in my game. XD
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Makki on <10-04-11/0221:39>
when runners meet in a bar/restaurant, you can't order without AR. there's no printed menu anymore. And don't bother asking the grumpy troll waitress.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <10-04-11/0225:20>
when runners meet in a bar/restaurant, you can't order without AR. there's no printed menu anymore. And don't bother asking the grumpy troll waitress.

That would depend on the bar/restaurant, IMNSHO. There'd be plenty of places where you could pay to have a snooty waiter look down his nose at you for mispronouncing the dishes, or where a one-eyed barman would growl "what'llbe?" at you.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <10-04-11/0226:16>
when runners meet in a bar/restaurant, you can't order without AR. there's no printed menu anymore. And don't bother asking the grumpy troll waitress.

That would depend on the bar/restaurant, IMNSHO. There'd be plenty of places where you could pay to have a snooty waiter look down his nose at you for mispronouncing the dishes, or where a one-eyed barman would growl "what'llbe?" at you.

One eyed? And i'll give him four arms.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <10-04-11/0230:20>
when runners meet in a bar/restaurant, you can't order without AR. there's no printed menu anymore. And don't bother asking the grumpy troll waitress.

That would depend on the bar/restaurant, IMNSHO. There'd be plenty of places where you could pay to have a snooty waiter look down his nose at you for mispronouncing the dishes, or where a one-eyed barman would growl "what'llbe?" at you.

One eyed? And i'll give him four arms.

With at least one of them obviously cyber.  ;)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <10-04-11/0235:54>
when runners meet in a bar/restaurant, you can't order without AR. there's no printed menu anymore. And don't bother asking the grumpy troll waitress.

That would depend on the bar/restaurant, IMNSHO. There'd be plenty of places where you could pay to have a snooty waiter look down his nose at you for mispronouncing the dishes, or where a one-eyed barman would growl "what'llbe?" at you.

One eyed? And i'll give him four arms.

With at least one of them obviously cyber.  ;)

of course the "he" is actually a "she" <.< but don't tell the players that.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <10-04-11/0238:04>
when runners meet in a bar/restaurant, you can't order without AR. there's no printed menu anymore. And don't bother asking the grumpy troll waitress.

That would depend on the bar/restaurant, IMNSHO. There'd be plenty of places where you could pay to have a snooty waiter look down his nose at you for mispronouncing the dishes, or where a one-eyed barman would growl "what'llbe?" at you.

One eyed? And i'll give him four arms.

With at least one of them obviously cyber.  ;)

of course the "he" is actually a "she" <.< but don't tell the players that.

It'll be dark. They might not even notice. Until later... ;)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: CanRay on <10-04-11/1127:56>
What happens in Bangkok...
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: kirk on <10-04-11/1151:55>
What happens in Bangkok...
... stays with Yul Brenner.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Phylos Fett on <10-04-11/1820:13>
Thanks - now I know what song I'll be humming all day...
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: kirk on <10-04-11/1911:55>
Thanks - now I know what song I'll be humming all day...
The embassy lament?
A model of decorum and tranquility?
Merano?

(Chess, from which Bangkok comes, is still one of my favorite musical collections to listen to.)
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: CanRay on <10-04-11/2056:13>
Thanks - now I know what song I'll be humming all day...
It's been stuck in my head since I got "99 Bottles".

It was either that or "99 Bottles of Yakuza on the wall"...  And I really don't want to take one down and pass it around...
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Joush on <10-04-11/2357:38>
Oh, and I did not think of this until I was thinking of holoween games for October, but for a truly great example of AR you should see Dead Space 1 & 2. Interfaces for devices and useful information are displayed as two dimensional objects hanging in space visible due to the system the character wares, with the ability to display a translucent interface window to handle things like maps and keeping track of email and messages.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: ARC on <10-05-11/0005:22>
Oh, and I did not think of this until I was thinking of holoween games for October, but for a truly great example of AR you should see Dead Space 1 & 2. Interfaces for devices and useful information are displayed as two dimensional objects hanging in space visible due to the system the character wares, with the ability to display a translucent interface window to handle things like maps and keeping track of email and messages.

Another one would be in Mass Effect.  The Omni Tool and VI interfaces are a perfect example of AR.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Kobold on <10-05-11/0943:36>
Does a character notice external AR-Objects while his Comlink is in Hidden Mode? So do you get Spam while in Hidden Mode?
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Zilfer on <10-05-11/1121:02>
Does a character notice external AR-Objects while his Comlink is in Hidden Mode? So do you get Spam while in Hidden Mode?

Interesting question. I'd like to know as well.
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: rasmusnicolaj on <10-05-11/1529:03>
I don't think so - that should be one of the advantages of running hidden. You are not detected and therefore not targeted by spam.

On the other hand you must on some level be aware on what is going on around you. The simple commlink you use for public mode are of no interest to you but you have to monitor it because when somebody tries to contact that commlink and doesn't get a respons it could raise suspisions.

Rasmus
Title: Re: AR and VR o.O'
Post by: Joush on <10-05-11/1911:50>
Does a character notice external AR-Objects while his Comlink is in Hidden Mode? So do you get Spam while in Hidden Mode?

Many ARO are generated by simple passive RFID tags. The tag simply holds data that holds the information for, say, a animated gang tag, a advertisement, a building directory or a guide to local businesses.

To view these, you don't need to send out any transmissions and break hidden mode. It just transmits it's simple amount of data all the time. By the same token, spam ARO send out signals to everyone in range trying to say "I'm a legit ARO the user has asked to see/hear/feel" and tries to get past the spam filters on peoples link. Bolth of these are one-way transmissions.


So you can't interact with most AROs when in hidden mode, and won't get offered them. You can view many ARO however, as they are broadcast openly.