Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Black on <10-11-11/1931:39>
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Hi All,
My players and thus myself are in a bit of a sticky situation. The team escorted a Mr Johnson into the Seattle Federal Building, using reasonably good quality fake SINs. All was sweet until the Mr Johnson, a large Troll, was providing evidence to a government committee made up of FBI officials and other ‘top men’ (and women). The Troll Johnson was previously poisoned (the players were suitably distracted) with a chemical derived from K-10, yes the berserking drug. A few tough questions and the drug is triggered by his emotional response and he begins attacking the committee members. The team, unarmed, steps in and subdues the troll before anyone (other than one of the runners) is seriously hurt.
This issue? Well now they are being held in the Federal Building by the FBI. In theory there is lots of evidence of them stopping the attack and they were there as body guards. Problem is, they are using fake sins, most are actually sinless. Also, the FBI will most likely take DNA samples, finger prints and of course there’s the video scans and facial recognition….
Now two of the runners actually didn’t make it to the building and are mostly fully recovered. They could rescue the team from a holding cell (fake ids, hacker running interference, etc), but what evidence would you expect the FBI to take from the runners and how do we neutralise it so that it doesn’t come back to haunt them?
Any ideas of removing the evidence? and what evidence they need to remove?
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As GM, decide they're not going to remove it all. Residual hooks that can show up weeks or months later can be so interesting for the players, they'll remember you in their prayers for years. ;D
On a more serious note, you're dealing with two types of evidence: material and records.
The best action for material is do the legwork to locate it, then steal it or destroy it. Next best is locate it then contaminate it so it doesn't link. The easiest action, and almost as effective, is back to the records.
Records just need found and deleted as per the quality "erased". Note that the "just" in the previous sentence is sarcasm. You've got the reports of everyone who saw the team, everyone who processed them into the cells, and the supervisors. You've got the records keeping track of the physical evidence. (which brings the call back: if they have a set of fingerprints and no records for them, they're not much use). The real problem is that while almost everything is matrix and so your hacker's job there are always the oddballs who have paper or air-gapped files. (data on chips, that sort of thing).
Again, as GM I'd make them do all the work, and start thinking what nasty surprises I could leave for them when I need a random jolt to make the event more interesting.
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Then there is what my team did to cover the tracks of our Face. He had pissed off the Yak's and was captured, he had been dropped off at a dirty police station and they delivered him to the Yak's. We trailed him as they delivered him to a warehouse, while they were torturing him we took out everyone outside and had our sniper line up a shot at the guy inside having fun. Just as the guy was about to cut off the Face's hand he sees a red dot on the guys head and comes out with a great line of "So how do you worship? Because we want to know how you want to be buried." We blew up the building with stuff found inside, leaving no evidence of anything. We then got him smuggled back to Seattle, got his face changed, finger prints and everything. Mage kept healing him as the work was going on so he got better fast.
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Wasted brings up a good point. For the SINless, one of the most effective, if expensive options to deal with officials having records and samples/material links is not to worry so much about headbutting the officials but rather to change yourself. There are plenty of methods out there, running the full scale between cheap/expensive and effective/nearly worthless.
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Kirk is right this is a perfect opportunity to have hooks for upcoming adventures even after the group thinks they are clear.
For the SINless if the FBI goes by the book they will be assigned a criminal SIN and put into the system.
Another option and one that I like as a GM is to have a special agent step in and say to the bureau "I'll take care of it."before they have all the samples taken and such. He then moves the team to a private room, and tells them the deal. This would be something along the lines of "You do this for me, and I'll make this all go away." To make it something tough and that the government wouldn't want to be associated with would be perfect in my opinion.
Now depending how devious you want this person to be this could be the last time they see them or he could come back later and say remember when I did this for you.
Then there is the option of if he is actually FBI, a different government agency or a complete fraud himself.
So many options and hooks in what looks like a bad situation. As for more plot hooks down the line their "friend" could come back and say I want you now to do this. You could have one of the committee members come to them and either out and out hire them because they saw them in action or try to blackmail them into it. Another option is an agent looking into the whole thing pieces together some of what happened and who the players are and wants/needs their services, and again to hire or blackmail. Then there are the people who their Johnson was testifying against.
Well hope that helps
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An interesting plot twist:
The same day as the players are arrested, the FBI nabs a top-level corporate assassin trained by S-K. There's a massive cyberattack (or EMP, or whatever), and all the computer FBI systems get wiped. The whole place goes into lockdown, but not before a pre-planned escape route is blown open by corporate operatives. The off-site data backups won't have any record of their arrests, and all the video evidence is trashed. They escape in the confusion before their fake SIN's are discovered. Even though they're not officially in the system, the arresting officers remember their faces, and plot hooks might pop up in the future. Not to mention that there's an assassin and dangerous corporation looking to cover their tracks (or potentially "thank" the players for any role they had in the escape).
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Another option and one that I like as a GM is to have a special agent step in and say to the bureau "I'll take care of it."before they have all the samples taken and such. He then moves the team to a private room, and tells them the deal. This would be something along the lines of "You do this for me, and I'll make this all go away." To make it something tough and that the government wouldn't want to be associated with would be perfect in my opinion.
This.
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Another option and one that I like as a GM is to have a special agent step in and say to the bureau "I'll take care of it."before they have all the samples taken and such. He then moves the team to a private room, and tells them the deal. This would be something along the lines of "You do this for me, and I'll make this all go away." To make it something tough and that the government wouldn't want to be associated with would be perfect in my opinion.
This.
That.
Make it good and dirty as well, something that makes the players really wonder about the FBI and the UCAS. Take a Railroad Spike of Dystopia and DRIVE it into the CHARACTER'S foreheads, which will make the players wonder all the more!
Think about the nasty things the USA has done that it's admitted... Then think about the things they don't ever want to see the light of day. Make that what the PCs wish they were doing. ;D
And when they later look for Special Agent Smith-Jones of the FBI... They find out he was never, ever there. But, their issue has, indeed, never, ever existed. The FBI know nothing of them at all, and their Fake SINs are still somehow intact...
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Loving it ;D
I was going to have the 2 runners who didn't get arrested, with a decker contact buddy of one who was capture, do the who cyberattack/rescue.... but the FBI agent with a deal is actually a lot cleaner and very unexpected...
What could the FBI/Secret Gov Man ask that is so dark, so evil,...
It would actually fit into the ongoing story. I have Metroplex Guard commanders, who happen to be a Hands of Five leader, secretly plotting to distabilise the SS nations by supplying weapons via the Vory to disaffected elements within the Cascade Orks (who are in turn being lead by a Toxic Shark Shaman - Swims in Darkness, who found his mentor spirit deep in the mountain caves and is toxic due to the influence of the uranium mines...) . My Metroplex Guard/Hands of Five is a seperatists and hopes that by bringing war to the SS he can strengthen the Guard and move towards independence from the UCAS... Anyways, its complicated...
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There you go, have the "FBI" agent make the group SUPPORT that in order to encourage the SSC invade Seattle (Even peripherally, like a Drone-Recon Assault), but then expose the Metroplex Guard angle to destabilize Seattle's "Independence" from the UCAS and strengthen the Military Units there, as well as weaken the Metroplex Governor while strengthening the local Mayors (So, the question is: Is he working for the Military, any of the groups against Brackhaven, a plant by the Tir to destabilize Seattle as a port city and make Portland even more effective and popular as a trading area, a plant by the SSC to get Seattle to over-react to a simple and internationally demonstrated non-aggressive act in order to invade, something else entirely?).
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Hi All,
My players and thus myself are in a bit of a sticky situation. The team escorted a Mr Johnson into the Seattle Federal Building, using reasonably good quality fake SINs. All was sweet until the Mr Johnson, a large Troll, was providing evidence to a government committee made up of FBI officials and other ‘top men’ (and women). The Troll Johnson was previously poisoned (the players were suitably distracted) with a chemical derived from K-10, yes the berserking drug. A few tough questions and the drug is triggered by his emotional response and he begins attacking the committee members. The team, unarmed, steps in and subdues the troll before anyone (other than one of the runners) is seriously hurt.
This issue? Well now they are being held in the Federal Building by the FBI. In theory there is lots of evidence of them stopping the attack and they were there as body guards. Problem is, they are using fake sins, most are actually sinless. Also, the FBI will most likely take DNA samples, finger prints and of course there’s the video scans and facial recognition….
Now two of the runners actually didn’t make it to the building and are mostly fully recovered. They could rescue the team from a holding cell (fake ids, hacker running interference, etc), but what evidence would you expect the FBI to take from the runners and how do we neutralise it so that it doesn’t come back to haunt them?
Any ideas of removing the evidence? and what evidence they need to remove?
If I am reading this right, your Players STOPPED a berzerking troll from hurting "innocent" bystanders at a evidence testamony... and they did so unarmed! Not really much of a crime here that they have to worry about. The feds would probably give them their IDs a once over, thank them for their help, and send them on their way. The Troll on the other hand is in DEEP DEEP trouble! (at least until a toxic screen comes back with the drugs in his system... And even then there will be all sorts of questions....)
Now, as for what evidence there is:
there would be audio and video evidence,
Possibly genetic material (blood, prints, hair...)
record of their (fake) SINs entering and exiting the building.
The Audio/Video evidence would be stored on the FBI mainframe (great hacker run/Mission!) and would need to be altered or removed to help limit their exposure
As for genetic material. This is really iffy. IF a room full of people watched the troll wigg out and start beating up people, they might not bother with lengthy blood sampling and on-site finger print collection. After all they got 40 eye witnesses that saw the troll go nuts! (not to mention all the billable man hours to collect, process, examine, catalog, and analyse the samples!)
At the end of the day, its up to you... how hard/easy do you want to make it for your team? It could be pretty cut and dry for everyoen BUT the troll.... or it could be "Game Over" for the entire team (minus the ones on the outside). Sadly breaking into the Fed building would be fairly difficult for a 2 (or 3) man team... getting back out, (alive!) after "freeing" their teammates from a holding cell would be almost impossible! HOW many Agents are actually in a federal building that are armed, and have weapons training??? 40? 50? 100? not to mention possible MILITARY backup for a "Terrorist" attack (which a team of wired/magiked up shadowrunners would deffinately qualify as!) They better try for the stealth option cause a "gun and run" approach is going to leave them splattered!
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Hi All,
My players and thus myself are in a bit of a sticky situation. The team escorted a Mr Johnson into the Seattle Federal Building, using reasonably good quality fake SINs. All was sweet until the Mr Johnson, a large Troll, was providing evidence to a government committee made up of FBI officials and other ‘top men’ (and women). The Troll Johnson was previously poisoned (the players were suitably distracted) with a chemical derived from K-10, yes the berserking drug. A few tough questions and the drug is triggered by his emotional response and he begins attacking the committee members. The team, unarmed, steps in and subdues the troll before anyone (other than one of the runners) is seriously hurt.
This issue? Well now they are being held in the Federal Building by the FBI. In theory there is lots of evidence of them stopping the attack and they were there as body guards. Problem is, they are using fake sins, most are actually sinless. Also, the FBI will most likely take DNA samples, finger prints and of course there’s the video scans and facial recognition….
Now two of the runners actually didn’t make it to the building and are mostly fully recovered. They could rescue the team from a holding cell (fake ids, hacker running interference, etc), but what evidence would you expect the FBI to take from the runners and how do we neutralise it so that it doesn’t come back to haunt them?
Any ideas of removing the evidence? and what evidence they need to remove?
If I am reading this right, your Players STOPPED a berzerking troll from hurting "innocent" bystanders at a evidence testamony... and they did so unarmed! Not really much of a crime here that they have to worry about. The feds would probably give them their IDs a once over, thank them for their help, and send them on their way. The Troll on the other hand is in DEEP DEEP trouble! (at least until a toxic screen comes back with the drugs in his system... And even then there will be all sorts of questions....)
Now, as for what evidence there is:
there would be audio and video evidence,
Possibly genetic material (blood, prints, hair...)
record of their (fake) SINs entering and exiting the building.
The Audio/Video evidence would be stored on the FBI mainframe (great hacker run/Mission!) and would need to be altered or removed to help limit their exposure
As for genetic material. This is really iffy. IF a room full of people watched the troll wigg out and start beating up people, they might not bother with lengthy blood sampling and on-site finger print collection. After all they got 40 eye witnesses that saw the troll go nuts! (not to mention all the billable man hours to collect, process, examine, catalog, and analyse the samples!)
At the end of the day, its up to you... how hard/easy do you want to make it for your team? It could be pretty cut and dry for everyoen BUT the troll.... or it could be "Game Over" for the entire team (minus the ones on the outside). Sadly breaking into the Fed building would be fairly difficult for a 2 (or 3) man team... getting back out, (alive!) after "freeing" their teammates from a holding cell would be almost impossible! HOW many Agents are actually in a federal building that are armed, and have weapons training??? 40? 50? 100? not to mention possible MILITARY backup for a "Terrorist" attack (which a team of wired/magiked up shadowrunners would deffinately qualify as!) They better try for the stealth option cause a "gun and run" approach is going to leave them splattered!
Going with this line of thinking the worst that they would be hit for are the Fake SINs they used. That would lead to them getting in trouble for entering a federal building with false identification. If the people are all SINless it leaves it open to the feds maybe not wanting to deal with the hassle of processing them and maybe throwing them out and threatening to shot on site if they try to enter a federal building again. People with a SIN would be in deep trouble since they have a valid ID so they have no real excuse for using a fake ID. Maybe someone in the room was almost killed by the troll and they are a higher up so they will let the ones with no SINs go but the ones that have them will have to be punished, be that through time served or they are now an asset for the federals that have no ties to them and are easily burned. Picture Burn Notice but without them all having been spies, they don't have the option of having a backer to save them they are just going to be doing missions till they find a way out, get released or die.
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"All they have is having entered a federal building with a fake SIN."
I don't see this as a no big deal offense. Especially if they have any license permits tied to the SIN this is a huge offense. Yes the government knows there are many people out there without a SIN, but it is the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about. This would put it front and center. In my opinion the Feds would want to come down hard to teach these miscreants a lesson. Especially if they could be tied back to any illegal activities in the past. Yeah the corps are the big boys now, but in some ways this would make the Feds want to beat them down even more.
Besides it gives such wonderful plot hooks and complications if they feel the heat. It also adds tension and a sense of mortality. A character doesn't have to die for the players to know that things can get ugly and next time they may not make it out alive. As a player these are the games that I always enjoyed the most.
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"All they have is having entered a federal building with a fake SIN."
I don't see this as a no big deal offense. Especially if they have any license permits tied to the SIN this is a huge offense. Yes the government knows there are many people out there without a SIN, but it is the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about. This would put it front and center. In my opinion the Feds would want to come down hard to teach these miscreants a lesson. Especially if they could be tied back to any illegal activities in the past. Yeah the corps are the big boys now, but in some ways this would make the Feds want to beat them down even more.
Besides it gives such wonderful plot hooks and complications if they feel the heat. It also adds tension and a sense of mortality. A character doesn't have to die for the players to know that things can get ugly and next time they may not make it out alive. As a player these are the games that I always enjoyed the most.
As a person that work with and for the government, they get pissed off when you go into a place under a false name. All things you did that could have been a crime will be looked at as if you did them for some reason. Trust me, it gets bad fast. If you did something good while you were there they may just lock you up, if you saved someones life then you may be set free with a heavy warning and with your prints and other stuff in the system. There you go, give them all the flaw "records on file" now they will have to watch out since a law enforcement agency has their correct bio and any prints or blood left at crime scenes may set off alarms fast.
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I would have thought that entering a Federal Building with a Fake SIN would be like trying to enter a country with a fake passport. Very Bad Things would happen...
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Wastedwalker, Well said. That was what I was trying to say, but didn't do it nearly as well as you did. I also like the idea of the added flaw of records on file it is very fitting. It could even be that only some people have access to the file as I suggested in my first post, but the flaw would still fit. That and it by itself could be a great hook for a couple adventures.
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I would have thought that entering a Federal Building with a Fake SIN would be like trying to enter a country with a fake passport. Very Bad Things would happen...
Currently it is a federal offense doing it, it leads to a LOT of fun time in a place with a lot of bad people.
Taking the shadowrun world into consideration where people are used as runners the second a corp or such can get them, it would be likely the team would be tracked, have their records placed and then sent off to do runs on the basis they have no choice and may not even be paid.
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Currently it is a federal offense doing it, it leads to a LOT of fun time in a place with a lot of bad people.
"Bubba The Love Troll Wants You!"
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Going with the released but on an unpaid mission for the Feds idea... another question in relation to all this... One of the runners have the erased quality at the highest level. I have the feeling that he will assume that the FBI electronic records will get whiped as well. But I think the physical samples will remain?
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Going with the released but on an unpaid mission for the Feds idea... another question in relation to all this... One of the runners have the erased quality at the highest level. I have the feeling that he will assume that the FBI electronic records will get whiped as well. But I think the physical samples will remain?
If you read the fine print it says "All but the most secure systems."
Which could mean the FBI or a Triple AAA database. Or it could be a database cut off from the matrix. An internal network unable to be accessed from the outside. Instead of wireless everything could also be wired for added protection.
The physical data should be fine as long as it isn't entered into a computer system and filed somewhere. :P
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Going with the released but on an unpaid mission for the Feds idea... another question in relation to all this... One of the runners have the erased quality at the highest level. I have the feeling that he will assume that the FBI electronic records will get whiped as well. But I think the physical samples will remain?
If you read the fine print it says "All but the most secure systems."
Which could mean the FBI or a Triple AAA database. Or it could be a database cut off from the matrix. An internal network unable to be accessed from the outside. Instead of wireless everything could also be wired for added protection.
The physical data should be fine as long as it isn't entered into a computer system and filed somewhere. :P
Just because the records of the samples aren't there, doesn't mean that the samples are gone. Once in a game session have the player roll an edge roll if they glitch, someone has found their file and re-entered it into the database. If they critically glitch, they have put the information out as an alert and if they get caught, they are actively looking for them because obviously they had something to do with their info being removed. If they get caught within the time, they are taken into custody and grilled about why their information was removed. If not, then nothing happens.
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Going with the released but on an unpaid mission for the Feds idea... another question in relation to all this... One of the runners have the erased quality at the highest level. I have the feeling that he will assume that the FBI electronic records will get whiped as well. But I think the physical samples will remain?
If you read the fine print it says "All but the most secure systems."
Which could mean the FBI or a Triple AAA database. Or it could be a database cut off from the matrix. An internal network unable to be accessed from the outside. Instead of wireless everything could also be wired for added protection.
The physical data should be fine as long as it isn't entered into a computer system and filed somewhere. :P
Just because the records of the samples aren't there, doesn't mean that the samples are gone. Once in a game session have the player roll an edge roll if they glitch, someone has found their file and re-entered it into the database. If they critically glitch, they have put the information out as an alert and if they get caught, they are actively looking for them because obviously they had something to do with their info being removed. If they get caught within the time, they are taken into custody and grilled about why their information was removed. If not, then nothing happens.
Wow Arc. If your Rept continues like that you'll be in league with the highest low rep people around. Anyways yeah that sounds like an interesting idea to roll an edge roll.
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Going with the released but on an unpaid mission for the Feds idea... another question in relation to all this... One of the runners have the erased quality at the highest level. I have the feeling that he will assume that the FBI electronic records will get whiped as well. But I think the physical samples will remain?
If you read the fine print it says "All but the most secure systems."
Which could mean the FBI or a Triple AAA database. Or it could be a database cut off from the matrix. An internal network unable to be accessed from the outside. Instead of wireless everything could also be wired for added protection.
The physical data should be fine as long as it isn't entered into a computer system and filed somewhere. :P
Just because the records of the samples aren't there, doesn't mean that the samples are gone. Once in a game session have the player roll an edge roll if they glitch, someone has found their file and re-entered it into the database. If they critically glitch, they have put the information out as an alert and if they get caught, they are actively looking for them because obviously they had something to do with their info being removed. If they get caught within the time, they are taken into custody and grilled about why their information was removed. If not, then nothing happens.
Wow Arc. If your Rept continues like that you'll be in league with the highest low rep people around. Anyways yeah that sounds like an interesting idea to roll an edge roll.
**Cue's Limbo music** How low can it go, how low can it go?
Seriously though, think about it, the print cards are on file, there might not be any reference to why the cards are on file but they might just come across them and put them back in the comp. It would be erased within the alloted time but if it just happens to be that day that they were put in...
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And files never get misfiled, eh? 8)
I was a clerk for a small provincial government office, and was often tasked with finding things in the old cards. (And I mean OLD!) which had been moved a dozen or so times from office-to-office. I had a, oh, 40% success rate, which was twice what my supervisor had previously been able to do (And, as there was only three of us...).
Ah, being a cog in a machine... ::)
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And files never get misfiled, eh? 8)
I was a clerk for a small provincial government office, and was often tasked with finding things in the old cards. (And I mean OLD!) which had been moved a dozen or so times from office-to-office. I had a, oh, 40% success rate, which was twice what my supervisor had previously been able to do (And, as there was only three of us...).
Ah, being a cog in a machine... ::)
Go with the edge, once a campaign have them roll and keep score, After two or so glitches or less for critical glitches, have the records be found but when they are entered into the system the erased quality should be put against the files since they are now in the realm of the quality. If the quality wins the matrix information is moved on and the files that were put in again fall into the filed away. But should the player get pinched in the 24 hours or the week that it takes for the erased to work they can be in custody when the files vanish. Now how would it look if you were in jail for something but there is now no record of it. You can get lost in the system that way, you never get released because there is no record of you being there.
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Thanks everyone.
I went with the job offer and now my team is down in Denver tracking down the sale of a dirty bomb. With the various 'issues' related to a UCAS federal officer being caught in the wrong sector in the wrong way, it was felt that a team of shadowrunners which included a Denver native whose a PI, a black market weapons dealer and a few other expend skilled independents, would be a better idea.
Of course, now half the team is trying to convince the other half that selling the weapon themselves is a better idea then working for the Feds... But that's a different issue.
;D
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"So, we need to find a bomb that's been rolled in the garbage?"
"No, Mungo, for the dozenth time, it's a traditional bomb that has nuclear material strapped to it."
"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... So, it's completely clean, like, Mr. Sterile clean?"
"Mungo... How is it that I'm the Troll, you're the Elf, AND I'M THE SMART ONE?"
"You had a SIN and went to school?"
"Yeah... That's it. I also apparently wasn't raised on a diet of paint chips."
"Blue was my favorite!"
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^wow..... and Mungo?
Fallout much?
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Mungo is also a name. (http://youtu.be/zc9wIzi96_E)
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Mungo is also a name. (http://youtu.be/zc9wIzi96_E)
Was that Wolfman Jack tickling the ivories?
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Mungo is also a name. (http://youtu.be/zc9wIzi96_E)
Was that Wolfman Jack tickling the ivories?
Colin Earl according to the "Electronically Tested" Album info.
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o.O if you say so mungo.... :p
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**Cue's Limbo music** How low can it go, how low can it go?
Seriously though, think about it, the print cards are on file, there might not be any reference to why the cards are on file but they might just come across them and put them back in the comp. It would be erased within the alloted time but if it just happens to be that day that they were put in...
Actually, I was arrested once*, several years ago and there was absolutely no physical card involved, they stuck my fingers right on the print scanner and took digital (no pun intended) copies of my prints straight into the database... now add about 70 years of tech to that, and I really don't see ink-pads and cardboard coming anywhere near a prisoner.
*Bunch of bull-crap that started because some %#$*ing idiot of a shop owner waited over two months to cash a small check I'd written him and I'd closed the account in the mean-time.
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I see them coming back with Technomancers and Hackers able to break into computer systems. Harder to get rid of hardcopy.
'Course, a printout of the digital copies could be done too...
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The phrase is "archival requirements".
Difficult to impossible to modify, with accessibility (legibility) lasting multiples of decades. Some read-only electronic media now meet that requirement, but it's the main reason paper still fills government offices.
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I was a clerk for the Gubbermint.
I had to go through files that were more than three times older than I am.
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I was a clerk for the Gubbermint.
I had to go through files that were more than three times older than I am.
Man your old.... :P